Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

The3rdTimeIsCharmed

(20 posts)
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 04:42 PM Dec 2020

Dismantling the ONLY airplanes capable of monitoring Russia from the air

Is Trump going ahead with the order to not only immediately de-commission . . . but dismantle / destroy the ONLY airplanes capable of monitoring Russia from the air? Just asking.

Who gave the DOTARD this idea? Inquiring minds want to know? Are there any tapes of the conversation? Might be time to leak them!

Perhaps it was the same handlers who had him:

Spew Russian dis-information, that they entered Afghanistan to fight terrorism.

That Montenegro is not trustworthy and is aggressive with their neighbors. For info on this specific very questionable / treasonous action, look at:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/19/very-aggressive-trump-suggests-montenegro-could-cause-world-war-three


At the time, Republican leader senator John McCain, who has called that summit with Vladimir Putin in Helsinki a “tragic mistake,” said Trump was doing exactly what the Russian strongman wanted.

“The people of Montenegro boldly withstood pressure from Putin’s Russia to embrace democracy,” McCain said on Twitter.

“The Senate voted 97-2 supporting its accession to NATO. By attacking Montenegro and questioning our obligations under NATO, the President is playing right into Putin’s hands.”






#

26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Dismantling the ONLY airplanes capable of monitoring Russia from the air (Original Post) The3rdTimeIsCharmed Dec 2020 OP
What's special about Russia that only certain type(s) of aircraft can be used for this purpose? mr_lebowski Dec 2020 #1
Special International Agreement The3rdTimeIsCharmed Dec 2020 #6
Didn't Trump also get rid of the agreement ... thought I saw ... no reciprocal fly-overs? mr_lebowski Dec 2020 #15
What planes are those. Couldn't find in it marybourg Dec 2020 #2
boeing planes made in the 60s or 70s..there was something about them a few months back... samnsara Dec 2020 #4
I wonder why this was posted today. Or at all. marybourg Dec 2020 #5
TRMS reported on it about a month ago. maxsolomon Dec 2020 #7
Well, that clears things up. marybourg Dec 2020 #8
Here is a link. maxsolomon Dec 2020 #9
Thank you. Although I wasn't allowed to read marybourg Dec 2020 #13
U.S. officially withdrew from Open Skies Treaty 22 November Brother Buzz Dec 2020 #12
Recent Pentagon News Suppression The3rdTimeIsCharmed Dec 2020 #14
Boeing OC-135B crickets Dec 2020 #18
He is trying to give Putin everything he wants to stay in his good graces.... kentuck Dec 2020 #3
I still think a dacha on the Crimean coast is still a Trump "retirement" option... Wounded Bear Dec 2020 #11
And is looking for an asylum route! Maybe Snowden has an extra bunk bed. n/t RKP5637 Dec 2020 #17
Everything Don has been doing is being done for Vlad. sarcasmo Dec 2020 #10
of course bdamomma Dec 2020 #25
More orders from Putin for tRump's get out of some debt card, most likely! n/t RKP5637 Dec 2020 #16
I don't think the Air Force would have much trouble procuring a... EX500rider Dec 2020 #19
If the treaty is torn up, a new plane would not be authorized. BUT relying on satellites is risky! The3rdTimeIsCharmed Dec 2020 #21
Well if it comes to shooting down sats, the planes would not be flying either. EX500rider Dec 2020 #26
I can't help but laugh sarisataka Dec 2020 #20
What the post ACTUALLY said (and implied) The3rdTimeIsCharmed Dec 2020 #22
I would suggest planes such as sarisataka Dec 2020 #23
Thank you, The3rdTimeIsCharmed. First I've ever heard of this. Very helpful. ⭐️ Judi Lynn Dec 2020 #24
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
1. What's special about Russia that only certain type(s) of aircraft can be used for this purpose?
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 04:47 PM
Dec 2020

Just curious.

 
6. Special International Agreement
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 04:58 PM
Dec 2020

There is an agreement that they will not mess with unarmed planes flying overhead (and we will not interfere with theirs).

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
15. Didn't Trump also get rid of the agreement ... thought I saw ... no reciprocal fly-overs?
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 05:28 PM
Dec 2020

Whole thing seems pretty fkcing sketch.

marybourg

(12,657 posts)
13. Thank you. Although I wasn't allowed to read
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 05:08 PM
Dec 2020

much, at least I got to read enough to make the OP comprehensible. I realize I did read this a while back, but haven’t heard anything about it since. Apparently what remains of our government doesn’t seem to think it’s too important.

Brother Buzz

(36,527 posts)
12. U.S. officially withdrew from Open Skies Treaty 22 November
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 05:07 PM
Dec 2020

Thanks to the orange anus

Scuttlebutt is the planes have been ordered to be torn up and scrapped so Biden can't immediately undo the damage.

 
14. Recent Pentagon News Suppression
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 05:18 PM
Dec 2020

With the recent attempt to use the holiday season to pull the curtain down on what is going on at the Pentagon . . . the dismantling of planes with technology that can not be easily re-created is alarming. No?


crickets

(26,010 posts)
18. Boeing OC-135B
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 05:55 PM
Dec 2020
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_OC-135B_Open_Skies

The OC-135B Open Skies United States Air Force observation aircraft supports the Treaty on Open Skies.[1] The aircraft, a modified WC-135B, flies unarmed observation flights over participating parties of the treaty. Three OC-135B aircraft were modified by the Aeronautical Systems Center's 4950th Test Wing at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio. The first operationally-capable OC-135B was assigned to the 24th Reconnaissance Squadron at Offutt AFB in October 1993. It is now fitted with a basic set of navigational and sensor equipment, and was placed in inviolate storage at the Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Center at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base near Tucson, Arizona in 1997. Two fully operational OC-135B aircraft were delivered in 1996 with the full complement of treaty-allowed sensors, which includes an infrared line scanner, synthetic aperture radar and video scanning sensors.



Keep American Skies Open to Russia: The Trump administration is poised to kill another useful treaty that contributes to trans-Atlantic peace (interesting op-ed about how the treaty came about and why we should keep it)
https://newrepublic.com/article/155583/keep-american-open-skies-trump-russia

But the biggest value of the Open Skies Treaty to the U.S., and the world, is its boost to confidence-building and transparency. By rule, American personnel sit in on Russian Open Skies flights, and vice versa. Treaty opponents say the widespread availability of high-resolution satellite imagery moots the accord, but most Open Skies members don’t have their own constellation of bespoke satellites, like the one Trump outed a few weeks ago by tweeting a highly classified Iran surveillance photo it had taken. Even if the U.S. could rely fully on its advanced space-based imagery sensors, the other 32 non-Russia Open Skies members gain tremendously from the treaty’s sharing process.

The Open Skies Treaty is not without its warts or disputes. The Obama administration locked horns with Moscow over Russia’s compliance and bad-faith challenges to U.S. operations under the accord. But those disputes were largely resolved in open multilateral discussions, and the lingering challenges aren’t fixed by steamrolling an unprecedented military-transparency regime, Bolton-style. The fact is that the Open Skies concept, and its application in recent years, vindicates “the continued relevance of arms control for our national security,” as one State Department official put it in 2014.



The Importance of the Open Skies Treaty - Nov 2019
https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/110262/witnesses/HHRG-116-FA14-Wstate-WoolfA-20191119.pdf

Foreign Affairs hearing re the allowed planes/equipment; includes the usual Congressional bellyaching about costs.

Wounded Bear

(58,852 posts)
11. I still think a dacha on the Crimean coast is still a Trump "retirement" option...
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 05:06 PM
Dec 2020

Have to stay in Putin's good graces for that.

bdamomma

(64,019 posts)
25. of course
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 08:04 PM
Dec 2020

tRump has our country on it's knees.


Putin that POS congratulating Biden on the Presidency, Putin is a snake he got what he want for tRump, and he got his revenge on America. with not a bomb dropped.

Horrible. We are so screwed, our national security has been compromised.

EX500rider

(10,903 posts)
19. I don't think the Air Force would have much trouble procuring a...
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 06:06 PM
Dec 2020

...unarmed plane with infrared line scanner, synthetic aperture radar and video scanning sensors.
Wouldn't even take long as most that stuff will be off the shelve, the originals plane are quite old at over 60 years and definitely due for replacement.

 
21. If the treaty is torn up, a new plane would not be authorized. BUT relying on satellites is risky!
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 06:34 PM
Dec 2020

If the Treaty is not re-negotiated, then the new planes would not be allowed to fly as our (and NATO) "eyes". RELYING ON SATELLITES is a mixed bag, given the satellite killing options now out there (possessed by China as well).

#

EX500rider

(10,903 posts)
26. Well if it comes to shooting down sats, the planes would not be flying either.
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 10:20 PM
Dec 2020

And the latest Keyhole sats can see more then that plane can.

A perfect 2.4 m mirror observing in the visual (i.e. at a wavelength of 500 nm) has a diffraction limited resolution of around 0.05 arcsec, which from an orbital altitude of 250 km corresponds to a ground sample distance of 0.06 m (6 cm, 2.4 inches). Operational resolution should be worse due to effects of the atmospheric turbulence.[36] Astronomer Clifford Stoll estimates that such a telescope could resolve up to "a couple inches"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KH-11_Kennen#Resolution_and_ground_sample_distance

sarisataka

(19,060 posts)
20. I can't help but laugh
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 06:26 PM
Dec 2020

Earlier this year people were losing their minds when a Russian plane flew over our bases under the Open Skies Treaty. There was no need, it was said, for such flights since we have satellites.

Now these planes are the ONLY way to monitor Russia.

 
22. What the post ACTUALLY said (and implied)
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 06:46 PM
Dec 2020

The post said:

"...Dismantling the ONLY airplanes capable of monitoring Russia "


NOT . . . THAT . . . as you, miss stated . . . "planes are the ONLY way to monitor Russia".


That would be the case, if (and when) satellite killing technology knocked out our satellite capabilities.


#




sarisataka

(19,060 posts)
23. I would suggest planes such as
Fri Dec 18, 2020, 07:46 PM
Dec 2020

P-8s or JSTARS could also perform the mission.

I would also suggest that if we and the Russians are taking out each other's satellites, the state of relations would mean open overflights will not be permitted by either country.

Although the justification for withdrawing from the treaty was Russia was restricting our flights, it is extremely shortsighted to completely abandon what has been a successful monitoring program.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Dismantling the ONLY airp...