United States Constitution-Article II, Section I

[Dem4Life1102]

The President

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice-President chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

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1. There was a rep. just on CNN saying that once the dust settles...

over this election and trump is gone we need to have the discussion of going to the popular vote for president.

He's right. It's time with "electors" getting death threats having to have armed guards protect them.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

3. I'm really torn on it, but getting rid of the EC fundamentally changes our system

and ignores our federalism.

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4. How does it threaten federalism? There would still be central government...

with state, county and local governments beneath it, all having jurisdiction over constituencies. And all of these other levels of governments elect their candidates by popular vote so it seems to me the executive of the larger, central government, the president, should be as well.

The EC was a compromise by the founders who where split as to whether there should be a direct popular vote or Congress/electors should elect the president. Further complicating it was the question of the enslaved population. That was resolved by the 3/5s compromise which gave slave holding states an advantage by allowing a 3/5s, or less than human, vote for their slaves. Southern states dominated the presidency for years and the compromise still helps red states.

Of course we should be rid of any institution that assigned a less-than-human status to human beings. IMO there shouldn't be any question.

And of course there is the fact that two of our last three presidents didn't win the a majority of the votes cast but still won the White House because of the Electoral College. It's a no-brainer in my opinion as federalism will survive its elimination as we certainly aren't going to eliminate the federal government also.

But since two compromises got us to the EC, how about changing from the winner of the popular vote in each state takes all the EC vote to doing it how Maine and Nebraska do. Have the winner of each Congressional district get 1 EC vote? That way the EC survives and eliminates Wyoming and other small state EC votes being worth way more that California's and other large state votes.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

5. States become unimportant in the election of the head of the executive branch.

Certainly they retain their power in the legislative branch, but that would be the only branch. And, indirectly, it affects the judicial branch since the executive nominates that.

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6. And why should states not the people be more important over who is the president?

We don't have to live by long-antiquated compromises because it's always been done that way.

And there is no longer enslavement, for God's sake. Without the EC we would've had a Gore presidency and Hillary Clinton one (both Democrats btw, and this is Democratic Underground, right?) and the nation would be in infinitely better shape.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

7. Now were are back to the changes to the system that would be made with the EC going away.

The states have the impact on the President because that is part of the federal system we developed.

I am fully aware of the slave state (you forget to mention the states that had women's suffrage that were also part of the call for the EC) impact on the origins of the EC. I started this with I'm torn on it.

And arguing for a system to stay in place to not move us further away from federalism is not the same as saying I didn't want Gore to be President. With Gore there were issues in Florida that should have been allowed to play out. Clinton lost the EC and that sucks. But it's not like the EC was added after the campaign.

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8. I'm still not getting why states instead of the people are more important...

in choosing the president? We're one country and every other elected official is chosen by who gets the most votes.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

9. What other elected national official is there?

Yeah, sure, senators and representatives are chosen by most votes. Those are at the STATE level. And then those that are chosen by each state goes to the legislative branch to determine policy for the whole country. Federalism. If we are going to get rid of the EC, do we also get rid of the Senate and become a unicameral system? Because if we are going to argue that popular election and representation is the most important, the Senate breaks that concept.

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10. IMO the president, the chief executive of all the people should be...

elected by the people he presides over. But that's just me. You prefer to stay with how it's always been done.

And why would the president being elected by popular vote lead to eliminating the Senate and a bicameral Congress?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

11. Didn't say it would, but if we are going to "popular vote" as the standard,

then the Senate violates that. That each state gets 2 in the Senate means that some states have more power per person just like the EC. So how do you advocate getting rid of the EC while still having the Senate?

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12. The Senate is supposed to be the more deliberative body, with wiser heads....

who shouldn't have to worry about getting re-elected every two years and can concentrate on the issues and blah blah blah. Of course with Rand Paul and McTurtle in there, that doesn't hold.

But let it stand for now. But you probably know as well as I do that the way it is now with the majority leader having, arguably, more power than the president, changes need to be made there too.

[Crunchy Frog]

13. We still have the profoundly unrepresentative Senate to protect "federalism",

to say nothing about actual elected state governments.

I don't know why an individual living in Wyoming NEEDS to have a bigger say in who gets elected President than an individual living in California.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. A big fat K&R!