Gish Gallop > Actual Debate Technique Of Throwing A Torrent Of Lies At Opponent.

[KittyWampus]

Last edited Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:50 AM - Edit history (2)

Haven't been on DU in quite a while since it moved to its new site but just found another DU'er mention the "Gish Gallop" and think it's a good idea for us to learn the term and use it. What Romney did is an actual debate technique. Point that out as much as possible. The fact there's an actual term for it "Gish Galloping" helps, IMO.

Take Care fellow Lefties.

The Gish Gallop-

named after creationist Duane Gish, is the debating technique of drowning the opponent in such a torrent of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer every falsehood in real time. The term was coined by Eugenie Scott of the National Center for Science Education.

The formal debating jargon term for this is spreading. You can hear some mindboggling examples here. It arose as a way to throw as much rubbish into five minutes as possible. In response, some debate judges now limit number of arguments as well as time. However, in places where debating judges aren't there to call bullshit on the practice, like the internet, such techniques are remarkably common.

Copied & pasted from Wiki

[Lisa D]

1. You nailed it.

That's why Romney was talking a mile a minute and serpentining with every issue.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

2. That sounds a LOT like what Romney was doing

Any information on how such a strategy is countered? President Obama was presented with so many lies, half-truths, distortions, etc. I'm sure that he had a hard time figuring out on the fly how to respond to it other than tell Romney to STFU (which, of course, he couldn't do).

[Canuckistanian]

4. How is such a strategy countered?

With a good moderator, that's how.

It should never have come to a point where one debater overwhelms the other with so many points that the other doesn't have time to rebut.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

7. I felt like Lerher was trying to force President Obama to answer Romney's charges (lies)

while Romney was given lots of openings to attack President Obama. I agree. The moderation was practically non-existent. It might as well have been just President Obama and Mitt Romney in the room.

[seabeyond]

3. exactly. that is exactly what i have been trying to explain. i have a small handful of poster that

consistently use this form of debate and at first i tried to address it. it doesnt go well. the never address the points you make anyway. it is a waste of time. and too many lies and misrepresentations to address. you end up becoming embroiled in a never ending, never win argument and tainted in negativity.

[City Lights]

5. OMG, that's exactly what he did!

I had no idea this was a named technique!

[Bluenorthwest]

6. That technique is popular on DU and those torrents of lies do protect the liars

DU and all of America need to reject lies and understand that liars lie always with intention, as tactic, no lie is ever told for no reason, any liar is a liar with an agenda. Never accept a liar, never swallow a known lie to 'make nice'. That's how you prevent Mitt level liars from reaching Mitt's level.

[FourScore]

8. This is an important point. n/t

[jsr]

9. Creationist nutjobs use it all the time

[treestar]

10. Typical right wing

We have to stop letting them "win" with this crap and point it out.

[tjwash]

11. Otherwise known as the...

..."if you can't dazzle them with facts, baffle them with bullshit" approach.

Favored technique of used car salesmen and empty-suit executives everywhere.

[annabanana]

12. I had no idea that it had a *NAME* !

Should become as familiar as "straw man" and "ad hominum"

[jwirr]

13. My response to someone who thinks lying is going to work is a barrage of ads telling the truth until

the Rmoney campaign realizes they are not winning that way.

[global1]

14. I Posted This 51 Minutes Into The Debate Last Night - Little Did I Know That Rmoney Was Using A ....

recognized debating technique.

Here's the link to my post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251117300

Interesting enough I think they telegraphed their strategy about a week or so ago when Rmoney said that Obama's a liar and we'll have to catch him lying during the upcoming debate (or something to that effect - if somebody has the link to when Rmoney said that and what exactly he said - please post here).

What they were doing then was preparing for this Gish Gallop debate technique and they - as they always do - blame the other side for something they do or intend to do.

[Berlum]

15. Galloping Freakin Gish (R)

[Kali]

16. excellent! thanks

[BlueStreak]

17. I wonder if any of the other 3 moderators will take note

I know rules for these events are heavily negotiated, but still if a moderator were to say ""Governor Romney, please hold the rest of your issues. We're going to discuss one issue at a time tonight", there really isn't much he could do about it.

What's he going to say? "Mr. Moderator there is nothing in the rules that prevents me from spewing as much garbage as possible."

I guess if the format gives each party a fixed amount of time on their clock, then they would be able to fill it with as much crap as would fit in the time. In that case, it is up to Obama or Biden to call the opponent on it. "Hey there is so much nonsense being thrown out here, nobody can make any sense of it. How about we stick with one topic at a time and get to the truth of that before we move on?"

[backscatter712]

18. That's it exactly. I posted about this earlier.

scheming daemons appropriately calls this technique "Speed Lying."

But Gish Gallop or Speed-Lying, that's exactly what Mendacious Mitt was doing last night.

We could also dub it the Bullshit Blizzard or the Firehose of Lies.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

19. I've been FBing, Tweeting and emailing about this since Wed. night

First saw it here on DU. Of course. Glad to see it getting more coverage!