Socialism Is The Fire ...

[ItsjustMe]

[cilla4progress]

1. Perfect.

Hope I can remember this.

[Wounded Bear]

2. Apt analogy...nt

[BGBD]

3. What is

Things that make us lose elections?


Talking about socialism helps Republicans. Want those policies? Stop openly calling them socialism.

[Blues Heron]

6. It's a message board - the idea is post and discuss openly

we can't live in fear of what the pukes might say or do. The op meme is a good one.

[BGBD]

7. No its not

I dont fear what they will say, I fear what they will do with the power you hand them. Republicans love it when democrats talk about socialism because they win that fight every time.

[Nimble_Idea]

9. no point in having this discussion here because

The remaining part of this message has been censored.

[johnp3907]

13. I'm a democrat and a socialist.

Not gonna live my life life “in the closet!”

[BGBD]

17. Great

Just keep tilting at that particular windmill then.

[johnp3907]

19. Whatevs...

🙄

[Voltaire2]

15. letting the fascists decide what we should be is bullshit.

[BGBD]

18. Fascists?

Try voters, who keep clearly telling you they don't want it.

[Voltaire2]

20. Fascists.

[BGBD]

25. There are real fascists out there

who are taking advantage of you talking about all the socialism you want.

The Democratic primary voters, who would be the most likely people in the country to be sympathetic to you went out of their way to elect Biden after Sanders took some early states. Then, he ran in opposition to socialism and won the general while we lost house seats and didn't take the Senate outright.

Joe Biden isn't a fascist. The Democratic primary voters who nominated him aren't fascists. Openly socialist candidates are being beaten in races across the country outside of all but the deepest blue districts.

[Skittles]

51. fascist, racist voters

yup

[KPN]

21. Oh come on! It's a pretty good analogy. The Rs have

always labeled Democrats socialists/ communists anyway. Yeah, we don’t need to have candidates declaring they are Democratic Socialists, but responding to GOP characterizations of socialism bring some dark evil force that strips freedom and the right to being an individual from people is important and worthwhile. Small, straightforward analogies like these are educationally useful.

[BGBD]

27. It's not though

socialism is about who controls the means of production, not what services the government provides.

This meme is more likely to make people want the fire department privatized than to get a single person to decide they actually like socialism. Many of them already are or charge a response fee.

[KPN]

34. That's a legitimate point, but the Rs don't use that

definition. They use a definition that is more like any public service that doesn’t benefit private business, the formation of capital or the potential for profit as socialism. The classical definition of socialism is irrelevant to them, just as the definition of fascism is. Simple analogies like these have more educational potential than complex definitions. Most people probably scratch their heads about what does ownership of means of production even mean!

[BGBD]

38. I think

they just concede the Republicans point that we are socialists. If we aren't socialists then we don't need to defend socialism. We need to point out that the public services we actually do want aren't any more socialist than the police department is.

[KPN]

48. That makes sense. I just think we need to do a better

job of countering that characterization that’s been made for decades. Avoiding the term doesn’t do it nor have attempts to educate the public in the classical definition of socialism. They don’t care about that. It doesn’t help that a number of western European nations freely and openly describe themselves as socialist (again, the facts don’t matter to right-wingers— they don’t care that those countries are relatively successful and have a relatively happier and healthier populace).

[wnylib]

36. You are correct in the consequences

of using the socialism term.

I am in favor of reasonable financial regulations that protect citizens and the economy. I am in favor of the wealthy paying their fair share. I am in favor of social programs like social security, medicare, and taxpayer supported public services like schools, fire departments, police departments, and holding them accountable to the people.

I am not in favor of socialism, which is a different system altogether. Given a choice between voting for a Social Democrat versus a Democratic Socialist, I would vote for the Social Democrat. The majority of Americans feel the same, as support for Joe Biden indicates.

Having to explain yourself to voters who are already inclined to be distrustful and even antagonistic to your political name is self-defeating.

[treestar]

41. The way Republicans use the term

the analogy is fair enough. Just argue that it is good, not bad.

[BGBD]

44. Just because Republicans are liars

doesn't mean we should let them corner us into defending a systems we, as Democrats, don't support.

[treestar]

47. The real problem is the dumbing down of so many voters

Enough that they don't know what "socialism" is and don't see the Republicans are exaggerating absurdly in describing liberal policies as "socialist."

[Thomas Hurt]

4. Socialism is anything a fn christofascist doesn't like. That is the extent of the definition.

Just fake news is any news the Pig doesn't like.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

32. Bingo! They win the P R wars every time.

Time to step up and fight fire with fire.

[KPN]

35. Exactly. Anything that doesn't directly benefit the bottom line

for private business or serve the formation of capital.

[LakeVermilion]

5. Most countries mix socialism and capitalism...

It is the government that regulates both. In our case, Republicans want unregulated capitalism, which is extremely unfair and unjust to most participants. Government needs to set the rules, so all of its citizens can participate equally. Republicans are only interested in protecting their donors.

[KPN]

23. Well, they actually want regulated capitalism as long as the

regulations favor wealth and limitations on liability/accountability.

[LiberalLovinLug]

42. Most countries.....including the USA

Firefighting is mentioned. There is also the police, the armed forces, public education, much of the infrastructure work.

Those are paid through taxes. In other words citizens pooling their money together, facilitated by elected representatives to manage it, to fund essential services in the most efficient, and cheapest way possible. Because you cut out the middle man. And because the managers of these departments can be fired....ie. not elected next time, if they screw up.


I don't know why Democrats, are not describing M4A this way. Make it relatable to ways they already pay for other services. That the country will be still a capitalist country, as is Germany, France, Britain, Canada, Australia etc.. if you simply add medical insurance costs to the other "socialist" funded services you already have, like every other western country. To save money for taxpayers. And at the same time cover every citizen, no matter who they work for, or if they work. A truly universal system.

Instead of Democrats infighting about how Americans are just not ready yet... after half a century after other nations have switched over to some form of it and are paying half or less the cost as the US...all of them, Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, all of them should be uniting around the idea of at least "working towards" M4A, which has a majority of support even amongst R's. Its a winning issue. It simply has to be explained better, more relatabley, and more important with one strong voice from all Democrats.

And I know some here will say "But that's what they are doing! small steps to get there". But many, including me, are not so sure. If they really have a single payer universal goal then shout it out. Stand by it. And speak with one voice. Don't use the word socialism if you don't have to. Just explain it rather as an essential service that is unsustainable funded the way it is, and we must fund it as we do the armed forces etc.. The infighting just further alienates the public from it ever becoming a possibility in their minds

[brooklynite]

8. Witty but....no it's not.

[Caliman73]

16. Agreed.

This is the problem with politics by Meme. Socialism is not about public services. Socialism is about who controls the means of production.

Socialism is Apple, Intel, Walmart, etc... owned by the workers through cooperative structures, or other means.

[KPN]

39. Witty works better than facts when it comes to influencing

the “public”. It’s the basic formula for the likes of Limbaugh.

[RicROC]

10. Democratic Capitalism

is a better phrase than Democratic Socialism. Maybe there is so such word but at least it avoids the word Socialism.

[JHB]

12. We already have one. "Square Deal"

The Square Deal was President Theodore Roosevelt's domestic program, which reflected his three major goals: conservation of natural resources, control of corporations, and consumer protection.[1]

These three demands are often referred to as the "three Cs" of Roosevelt's Square Deal. Thus, it aimed at helping middle class citizens and involved attacking plutocracy and bad trusts while at the same time protecting business from the most extreme demands of organized labor. He explained in 1901-1909:

When I say that I am for the square deal, I mean not merely that I stand for fair play under the present rules of the game, but that I stand for having those rules changed so as to work for a more substantial equality of opportunity and of reward for equally good service.[2]

A progressive Republican, Roosevelt believed in government action to mitigate social evils, and as president he in 1908 denounced "the representatives of predatory wealth" as guilty of "all forms of iniquity from the oppression of wage workers to unfair and unwholesome methods of crushing competition, and to defrauding the public by stock-jobbing and the manipulation of securities."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_Deal

[KPN]

26. Good stuff. Teddy was pretty remarkable. He also

Zhad some pretty significant flaws (as I recall and in my view) which makes him quite a fascinating character.

[KPN]

24. I like that actually.

Is that your own creation?

[RicROC]

49. yes.

I can't believe no one else has thought of that phrase, though. It makes sense that control of the excesses of capitalism to benefit the contribution of the workers working for capitalists would be called Democratic Capitalism

[JHB]

11. Cute, but it accepts the RW nutjob definition of "socialism"...

...which is any "collective" action.

[KPN]

40. Not really. It just uses it.

[Backseat Driver]

14. Sort of been there; had that done

Just outside the car dealer's body shop/repair garage, the blizzard raged...but our car needed some work when we pulled into the lot.

OK, sir, we're swamped in here as you can see, but we can get to it early tomorrow morning...how 'bout just parking along the side of the building...

And so DH did, and his ride home brought him home - what happened next...overnight the ice and snow created an overhang along the edge of the flat roof and, you guessed it, that icy overhang avalanched onto the hood and dented it badly...

DH arrived at dealer early next day so as to be on site when the car was being "repaired" only to find a newly dented hood; asked dealership to arrange to fix what had occurred overnight. He was told the damage was not their problem or fault - an "act of God, oops!" Being fully covered and having a nice low deductible, he filed a damage claim on our policy which was promptly denied as well...So yeah, another expensive repair far over the deductible for doing as he was instructed and on their property - just an example of "no shelter from the storm" and great customer service, huh?

[dlk]

22. Well said

[iluvtennis]

28. Spot on! nt

[bringthePaine]

29. 👏

[Mr. Ected]

30. Somebody come up with a "Fascism is" and "Socialism is" analogy

And that's how we respond, by further identifying how our policies are still abundantly different than what the lemmings have been led to beli.

[BGBD]

33. Our policies

aren't socialist.

That's the answer.

[HootieMcBoob]

31. That's a keeper

K/r

[Dr. T]

37. The police are an example of socialism.

The fire department is an example of socialism. The roads we drive on are an example of socialism. The next time some glassy eyed, Trump humping, flag humping idiot opens up about the evils of socialism, ask how they would feel if they called for help and the operator demanded a valid credit card number before the conversation could continue.

[NurseJackie]

43. Still explaining? You know what THAT means...

[Blue Owl]

45. K&R

Good one!

[PatrickforO]

46. Oh, but...but...but...

Murika ain't nebber gonna go SOSH-A-LIST!

[Progressive dog]

50. Socialism is not a Democratic value

This is the definition.

Definition of socialism

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

That is the meraning of socialism. You can be for social security, medicare, and what we call social programs without supporting socialism.