Those attacking Warnock have to understand something

[dsc]

Black men can't attack white women in the South and get away with it. He was as aggressive as he was able to be with her. I have no idea if that will be enough or not or whether the debate will wind up being irrelevant to the outcome. But had he been more aggressive than he was, it would have mattered, a whole big bunch. We would have seen the whole angry black man thing over and over again.

[elleng]

1. Thanks

[MustLoveBeagles]

2. This

It was frustrating to watch but understand why he did it that way.

[Hekate]

3. Yep

[Hoyt]

4. I think that is very close to truth, sad that it is. Warnock did make it clear he's for the average

person.

Some people forget that the objective is to win the election, not make us political junky, Democrats yell, "That's telling them."

To me it came down to Warnock's humanity and focus on average people. I don't know if that's enough to take this race. There are still a lot of vile rubes in Georgia.

[Shermann]

5. I don't buy it

He went after her stock sales again and again. If he can attack her personal finances, he can certainly question her loyalty and other weaknesses. He can point these things out skillfully and respectfully without getting enraged or pasting nasty labels on her like she was doing.

[StarfishSaver]

8. Are you a black man?

[appmanga]

49. I am. and I lived in Georgia for 27 years...

...and if Warnock displayed any real anger, he affirms her narrative of him being some type of snarling radical. And that's not just something women would be sensitive to, but it would agitate lots of men. And while a lot is made of it being a Southern thing, the trope of the angry black person travels well.

[StarfishSaver]

50. Exactly

It's so easy - and all to frequent - for white folk to tell us how we should get all up in white people's faces because that's what they think they would do in that situation (even though we know that they're mostly all talk and probably would never have the nerve to what they so confidently instruct is to do).

It gets really tiresome.

[area51]

54. Welcome to DU. n/t

[sheshe2]

11. No he can't.

This is what people do not understand. You have to carefully admonish a white woman from the south especially if you are a black man. You have to say it carefully. Sad but true.

[backtoblue]

15. +1 nt

[sheshe2]

16. Hey you.

Hi.

[soldierant]

24. I'm a 70-something white woman raised on CA, living in CO, and I get it.

I HATE it, but I get it.

I can live with all politics being local. But all politics being personal - that's bad. I don't mean that it's not legitimate to consider personal flaws and qualify or disqualify a candidate accordingly ... but making up one's mind (I say ":mind" by courtesy) on how to vote based on personal characteristics which are both totally beyond one's control and absolutely irrelevant - tht's disgusting - but it exists.

[electric_blue68]

20. I may be white bit I've read enough, listened..

enough to black people's experiences in The South (and up north, too) to figure that this unfortunately makes sense especially in the Deep South.

Good luck, Rev W! 👍

[LenaBaby61]

25. "I don't buy it."

Same here. I was over at an African-American site, and many said that "Being a doormat doesn't win elections." So true.

Look at all of the things Warnock could have gone after that big, dumb robot on in a factual way. Hopefully, tRump going down there to Ga. depresses the Maggot vote, and or confuses them into thinking that voting for either of those thugs is a BAD thing.

[JI7]

31. Warnock wasn't a doormat , he laid out why people should vote for him

[LenaBaby61]

38. "Warnock wasn't a doormat, he laid out why people should vote for him."

I wouldn't say that he was a doormat, but I'd have checked her when that right-winged witch kept repeating those buzz words though. thuglicants are nothing but fascists and pathological liars amongst other odious things, but are never really called what THEY are, and after decades of hearing Dems disparaged as liberals, big-spenders, and of hearing thuglicants saying that "They're going to raise your taxes." Fatso and thuglicants have this country in so much staggering debt that it's not funny, but very seldom do I see anything really said about that by enough Dems. That tax cut for the rich, signed off by thuglicants ONLY started and ended anything that could have been done to keep this country moving in the right direction that Pres. Obama had it moving in when he left office. The money fatso got for his wall was infuriating especially since he forgot about this country's infrastructure, and now with this pandemic, millions out of work, millions in food lines, millions in need of unemployment monies, trying to again repeal the ACA in total during this pandemic, our hospitals are in desperate need of PPE, our health care workers are exhausted and we have 283 K dead from Covid-19, and I could go on and on and on those things alone fatso's proven to be the worst modern-day president in history, and thuglicant's are right there with him. There's a special place in hell for them ALL., And that witch stood on stage parroting the same liberals are big-spenders who raise taxes crap over and over and over (all while she maybe wore a WIRE, and I PRAY that was/is true, because she needs to be buried), Dems have to always run in there with fire hoses and "straighten it all out," then thuglicant's take the helm of government again, then tear things down all over again. Let me stop.

I'm hoping that the crazy, lying always, allegedly depressed Devil going down to Georgia yesterday depresses enough thuglican votes and they sit the run-off out, and/or he mixes up enough of the crazy inbreads enough who want 4 more years of this murderous wrecking-ball Administration, that they don't go out and vote at all until things are fixed. There was never any voter-fraud to amount to much from the Dem Side, all of the voter-disenfranchisement came from the fascistic side of the isle.

[StarfishSaver]

43. Keyboard warriors telling the black man in the ring what he SHOULD have said

I'm not impressed with the "what he shoulda said" lectures coming from big talkers on the sidelines.

I am, however, impressed with the skill, clarity and eloquence shown by the man IN the ring last night.

[quaint]

59. +++

[wryter2000]

63. I kept wondering, though

If he couldn't have gotten away with "I'm beginning to think my first name is 'radical liberal.'" It might have gotten a laugh. Maybe it would have stopped her from doing it.

Obama is a master of using humor against his opponents. Warnock has had at lease one funny commercial. This might have worked for him.

[StarfishSaver]

65. It's always easy to come up with great lines when we're watching it from home

And not standing in the spotlight thinking on our feet about how to answer the last question, anticipating what the next question will be, and trying to remember everything we absolutely must say at some point in the debate - all at the same time.

I think he did great.

[wryter2000]

66. I think he did great, too

She was s robotic, repeating the same things over and over. That "radical liberal" thing drove me crazy toward the end.

[Shermann]

67. I agree it is difficult to come up with perfect responses in the moment

That said, Loeffler and Perdue are uniquely vulnerable on this election "controversy".

Let's break it down. The majority of Georgians voted for Biden in a historic flipping of the state. I'm sure 100% of that group wants their vote to be certified, the disputed election charade to end, and for politicians to move forward with the transition. Now I believe a minority of Trump voters are also joining these ranks, possibly a third of them. So that constitutes the vast majority of Georgians who want to move forward. Yet Loeffler is standing with the minority obstructionist group with her indecisiveness and shoulder shrugs.

I'm sure Loeffler has better political instincts than I do, and she has calculated that this is the right move. She'd like to disappear in a crowd of other like-minded Republican Senators and wait for it all to blow over. However, she and Perdue are in a position to be held to account in January unlike the rest. I say hold them to account. I say maximize the political damage and minimize any advantages.

If Warnock can bring up her possibly out-of-bounds personal finances, he surely can broach this entirely in-bounds subject in a respectful way.

Has Warnock's campaign even had this conversation? I'm not confident they have, it certainly didn't show.

Warnock was good, I'll give him that. But he wasn't great in my opinion.

[StarfishSaver]

68. I'm pretty sure any "conversation" that's come to your mind that they've needed to have

they probably already had some time ago.

It's not likely that you or I or anyone else on the outside looking in are coming up with ideas that they haven't already thought of.

[HUAJIAO]

74. I couldn't watch it all cause that woman is unsufferable.

For the 1st 15 min or so I was disappointed that Warnock wasn't being stronger in calling her out. Then it suddenly hit me why...... duh, slapped my own forehead....

It is so sickening... but so true...

[LenaBaby61]

85. "Keyboard warriors telling the black man in the ring what he SHOULD have said."

I'm African-American and Native-American, and I'm a grown ass woman, and I have EVERY right to say what I want to say. You're coming off sounding like a dictator telling OTHERS what THEY can and can't say, and think what they want to think, and I'm not one bit impressed by you coming off sounding like a big-talking, loud-mouth dictator.

[LenaBaby61]

29. Was that witch wearing a wire?

Link to tweet

🤔

[Blue_true]

6. Good point.

We still call people “yes sir” and “yes mame” routinely down here. Yelling at someone is viewed as an afront. She likely knew that he could not go after her verbally and she took advantage of that. My guess, she likely hurt herself.

[StarfishSaver]

7. Thank you!

[ConstanceCee]

9. Her Face

Her smirking, condescending face told us she knew (or thought she knew) that she was untouchable.

[sheshe2]

12. She is a Barbie doll.

Nothing coherent from her mouth. Just GOP talking points.

[sandensea]

17. +1

Like an older Kayleigh McInane.

But luckily for Kelly, much too old for Cheetolini's taste.

[groundloop]

79. She's known as Buckhead Barbie (Buckhead is a 'trendy' area of Atlanta)

[Rice4VP]

10. I told my father the same thing. She looked like an idiot

and he mostly ignored her and spoke to the people. She was trying to make him angry

[KentuckyWoman]

14. She took the bully toddler Trump Road. He took the adult road.

And they are right about the limitations a black man has in the south... well, everywhere....

[Mariana]

13. You're right, of course.

The angry, scary black man would be in every ad until the day of the election.

[Politicub]

18. This. And it drives me bananas.

Racism is a cancer.

Warnock is an amazing person and dynamic on the stump. There were so many moments when I wanted to see him be more assertive, but understood that the bigger prize is getting elected.

[StarfishSaver]

26. And yet, white people are here to tell us that this take is wrong

and that the black man should have been tougher.

Lord have mercy ...

[Aepps22]

37. This

No lies spoken.

[Solomon]

41. They were hollering this about Obama for 8 years too.

[SunSeeker]

19. Sad but true. nt

[NoMoreRepugs]

22. True.

[sprinkleeninow]

23. I realized this as well. eom

[jalan48]

27. What I saw of the debate she was attacking him as a radical leftist, socialist. It seems like that's

the go to argument to discredit Democrats.

[tulipsandroses]

28. Agreed. Also in hindsight, I think he did just fine. Loeffler was speaking to the base. You can't

move those folks.That is the kind of stuff they want to hear. Radical, socialism, blah blah blah.

For folks tired of 4 years of crazy and want real work to be done, the independent and "sane republicans" - Loeffler was not speaking to those folks, and I don't think she appealed to them with her robotic RW crazy talking points. Those " center" folks just want govt to work. Warnock showed himself to be reasonable. Loeffler on the other hand, appeared to be an unhinged malfunctioning robot.

I don't think anyone's mind was changed by this debate either.

[edhopper]

30. At this stage

Debates don't matter. They are not voting for Loeffer because they think she is a qualified Senator. They are voting ideology. Nobody's mind is changing.

GOTV will determine this election. Not this debate

[progressoid]

36. +1

[CatWoman]

32. you are most correct

[BobTheSubgenius]

33. FML

How f'ed are our societal norms? I think it could also be pointed out that many of those same caveats could be applied to a woman on a debate stage or at a podium, giving a speech. An interview. Anything.

Anything that causes the person in question to make their mouth move and have sounds come out.

[brooklynite]

34. Then why is he running against her?

[cwydro]

35. Ha, wonder if you'll get an answer.

This thread...

[LanternWaste]

71. I s'pose the numerous answers answered that.

[dsc]

40. Because he can and he got the most votes in the primary

Last edited Mon Dec 7, 2020, 07:01 PM - Edit history (1)

but unlike you, I live in the South and have for closing in on 20 years (two years in the 1990's and over 16 years from 2004 to the present). I have taught in schools that have ranged from nearly 100 percent African American students with a majority African American staff, to those that have had pluralities of African American students with majority white staffs. As most people know, even high schools tend to be staffed overwhelmingly by females. Thus I get to witness interactions between African Americans of both genders and white women. And when I say African American men can't get aggressive with white women without serious consequences attaching, I mean it. Warnock couldn't have debated in a way similar to that of Ossoff without losing the race. I am not sure that Ossoff could have been as aggressive against her as he has been against Purdue but I know Warnock couldn't. He just couldn't.

[StarfishSaver]

44. Seriously?

[StarfishSaver]

52. Because there is more to running an effective race than jumping in someone's face in a debate

But surely you're not suggesting because it's not smart for a black man to use a particular tactic in a campaign against a white woman, he shouldn't be running at all. Because that would be, you know ...

You know ...

[kcr]

57. Oh, they know

[StarfishSaver]

58. Indeed

[brooklynite]

72. I'm suggesting that if you run for office you should be prepared to do what you need to do to win...

[StarfishSaver]

73. I know what you're suggesting

And what you don't seem to understand is that what one "needs to do to win" varies based on who is running. What is effective for one candidate is not always effective for another. And, like many other things in this society, that can vary based on the race of the candidate.

And your assumption that a black candidate somehow isn't doing everything it takes to win because what it takes for him to win is different than what it might take a white candidate to win - as if white candidates are the norm and anyone else who doesn't do what they do shouldn't be running - merits some self-assessment on your part.

[dsc]

76. and my point is that had he been aggressive it wouldn't have helped him win

Honestly, I don't think this debate will help or hurt him or help or hurt her but had he debated her like Ossoff debated Purdue, I would bet my next paycheck it would have tanked his numbers.

[sheshe2]

80. He is.

And running in Georgia as a black man against a white woman is not the same as running in NY as a white man against a white woman.

[StarfishSaver]

81. But apparently some people think there's only one right way to run

and that way is the way a white person would do it. And if racism means that a black person can't do it that way, they don't need to run.

[sheshe2]

82. Apparently.

I will not name names and am not talking DU. They know who they are.

[kcr]

56. Oops

Be careful there.

[LanternWaste]

70. To achieve a position of leadership and change is my guess. But yours does beg the question...

"Then why is he running against her?"

That then begs the question, as your sentiment implies the one (running for office) is predicated upon the other (avoidance of appearing as the Angry Black Male).

If so, can you support that?
If not, what then is the precise sentiment you're attempting to convey?

[demmiblue]

77. That a rich white man who lives in a bubble knows better than those who live in the south.

Especially black folks who live in the south.

Paternalism.

[helpisontheway]

39. Barack said Hillary was likeable enough and everyone flipped out

The outrage caused him to lose NH.

[Raven]

42. This run-off is not about changing minds, it's about GOTV. I

think she did herself no good with that wooden performance yesterday. He did what he had to do. I agree with the OP...this is Georgia, it may have gone blue, but it's still Georgia.

[moose65]

62. Amen

Warnock doesn't need to win over the rabid conservative base. He needs to speak to Democrats and left-leaning independents. No Democrat is ever going to win over the true believers.

[SallyHemmings]

45. This needed to be said!

Thank you!

[Dopers_Greed]

46. Exactly right

Remember 2008 as well.

Obama and Biden had to treat Palin with kids gloves for the same reason.

[samsingh]

47. thanks - i couldn't watch him after a minute of not calling out the repug lies - i hope he wins

[Pacifist Patriot]

48. Georgia native weighing in, and a white woman to boot.

This is dead on accurate.

I hate that this is the way it is. It doesn't remotely reflect my personal values. It's heinous. It's also depressingly maddeningly frustratingly true. I hope I see the day when it isn't.

[StarfishSaver]

51. You are SO right

But also, I suspect that most of the people doing the second guessing have never run for office and definitely have never run for office in Georgia (and most of them have probate never even BEEN to Georgia), yet think they know better how to approach the race and debates than the man in the middle of the fight.

The certainty of the "He's doing it all wrong, I know better" keyboard warriors are one of the more maddening aspects of DU

[demmiblue]

53. Yep. n/t

[calimary]

55. There is that.

[Wounded Bear]

60. Much like Hillary couldn't really fight back against Trump...

without being the "angry bitch" stereotype to RWers.

Blacks and women have been fighting an uphill battle against the Right Wing since forever.

[llashram]

61. true this

an ABM scares the shit out of...and attacking a white woman? Unheard of even in 2020 and if he did, I remember Emmitt Till and the photos of his tortured to death body and soul because of a LIE. Something this culture's media has turned into an art form, particularly in these last almost four years while propping the golden toilet king...

[orleans]

64. i didn't see the entire debate, but i saw a lot of it

i thought he did a great job

[StarfishSaver]

69. But, apparently, he didn't meet some DUers' standards

Last edited Mon Dec 7, 2020, 10:15 PM - Edit history (1)

If he knows what's good for him, he'll include some folks from DU in his next debate prep. Otherwise how will he know what he should say and how he should say it?

[orleans]

84. lol n/t

[MrScorpio]

75. Yes, I have no idea why people attacking him didn't realize this

[paleotn]

78. Unfortunate, but true. That's GA and that's the south.

[Digital Puppy]

83. Agreed!

My Morehouse Brother did an EXCELLENT job of talking to Georgia voters and wearing the mask he needed to maximize his message!