General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt is not over yet.
As much as everyone would like to get on with their lives, it is not yet possible with Donald Trump and the seditious Republicans continuing to hold the election and the government hostage. Perhaps their strategy is to suppress the vote in the upcoming recall election in Georgia? To call their actions "un-American" is an understatement.
These people are no friends of "democracy". It sounds too much like "Democrats".
They have failed miserably in the courts and have now switched their strategy to county and state officials responsible for certifying the elections. What's next? Martial law?
As the coronavirus surges across the country, Trump and the Republicans choose to withhold everything from the new Biden Administration. They keep on believing that if they continue digging in the horse shit, they will surely find a pony in there somewhere?
It's Groundhog Day again.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)These next few weeks are going to be a bumpy ride.
scarytomcat
(1,706 posts)I don't know exactly what it will be but Biden's team will find out. Will they tell us is another matter but dump and repulicons are running scared. Follow the MONEY. It will be interesting if suddenly Moscow Mitch starts sitting up straight and paying attention or putin gives them his special tea.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Many heads will roll.
Celerity
(43,337 posts)And to use it, all it takes is a the stroke of his sharpie.
The Alarming Scope of the President's Emergency Powers
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/01/presidential-emergency-powers/576418/
snip
But will they? Unknown to most Americans, a parallel legal regime allows the president to sidestep many of the constraints that normally apply. The moment the president declares a national emergencya decision that is entirely within his discretionmore than 100 special provisions become available to him. While many of these tee up reasonable responses to genuine emergencies, some appear dangerously suited to a leader bent on amassing or retaining power. For instance, the president can, with the flick of his pen, activate laws allowing him to shut down many kinds of electronic communications inside the United States or freeze Americans bank accounts. Other powers are available even without a declaration of emergency, including laws that allow the president to deploy troops inside the country to subdue domestic unrest.
This edifice of extraordinary powers has historically rested on the assumption that the president will act in the countrys best interest when using them. With a handful of noteworthy exceptions, this assumption has held up. But what if a president, backed into a corner and facing electoral defeat or impeachment, were to declare an emergency for the sake of holding on to power? In that scenario, our laws and institutions might not save us from a presidential power grab. They might be what takes us down.
1. A LOADED WEAPON
The premise underlying emergency powers is simple: The governments ordinary powers might be insufficient in a crisis, and amending the law to provide greater ones might be too slow and cumbersome. Emergency powers are meant to give the government a temporary boost until the emergency passes or there is time to change the law through normal legislative processes. Unlike the modern constitutions of many other countries, which specify when and how a state of emergency may be declared and which rights may be suspended, the U.S. Constitution itself includes no comprehensive separate regime for emergencies. Those few powers it does contain for dealing with certain urgent threats, it assigns to Congress, not the president. For instance, it lets Congress suspend the writ of habeas corpusthat is, allow government officials to imprison people without judicial reviewwhen in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it and provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.
Nonetheless, some legal scholars believe that the Constitution gives the president inherent emergency powers by making him commander in chief of the armed forces, or by vesting in him a broad, undefined executive Power. At key points in American history, presidents have cited inherent constitutional powers when taking drastic actions that were not authorizedor, in some cases, were explicitly prohibitedby Congress. Notorious examples include Franklin D. Roosevelts internment of U.S. citizens and residents of Japanese descent during World War II and George W. Bushs programs of warrantless wiretapping and torture after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Abraham Lincoln conceded that his unilateral suspension of habeas corpus during the Civil War was constitutionally questionable, but defended it as necessary to preserve the Union.
The Supreme Court has often upheld such actions or found ways to avoid reviewing them, at least while the crisis was in progress. Rulings such as Youngstown Sheet & Tube Company v. Sawyer, in which the Court invalidated President Harry Trumans bid to take over steel mills during the Korean War, have been the exception. And while those exceptions have outlined important limiting principles, the outer boundary of the presidents constitutional authority during emergencies remains poorly defined.
snip
kentuck
(111,089 posts)All he needs is for the right event to happen to give him the excuse to intervene. (His own little Reichstag fire)
Celerity
(43,337 posts)1. Trump will try EVER single angle, legal and not, right up to Biden being sworn in to either try and steal it or to do just TRASH Biden with 100 million plus. He will try anything and everything (and will do so for the next 4 years) to delegitimise Biden's win.
2. Trump and his administration will do nothing to aid the transition. They will try and blow up as much shit as possible (including COVID, he will try and kill as many as possible on his way out, and to ratfuck the vaccine rollouts) to leave Biden a flaming set of 1000 dumpsters fires to try and put out.
3. Along the lines of number 2, I think he likely may start at least one military conflict (Iran perhaps) on his way out, and shuts down all security surveillance (or as much as possible) and quite likely does a LIHOP or even MIHOP play on one or more giant terrorist attacks on American soil within weeks or months after he leaves office, then he and all the Rethugs will blame Biden ENTIRELY for it all.
4. The Senate (provided we do not win both GA run-offs) will go, under the 'leadership' of Moscow McTurtle, full stop block of EVERYTHING Biden tries to do, including all (or nearly all) Cabinet nominations, all judicial nominations, etc etc etc etc, everything possible, for as long as they control the Senate. I am talking 4, even 8 full years or more, IF the Rethugs control the Senate and a Dem has the POTUS. IF the Rethugs take back the House as well in 2022 (we have a horrid record for Dem POTUS first midterms, look at 2010 and 1994), they will also immediately begin impeachment charges.
5 Trump will try and destroy us for the next 4 years and will run (or at least say he is) again in 2024 (thus keeping the Rethugs under his whip hand of madness) unless he is imprisoned (4 year clock starts for NY AG and SDNY at around noon, January 21, 2021) or dies before then.
Finally, we have the NSA option, which if Trump goes there, risks kinetic civil war if he declares it and then tries a nationwide crackdown (with him shutting down many things, including possibly trying to shut down the internet, which is a power he will have under the NSA).
We are in for a fucking shitshow no matter what, and a long term one I fear. The bedrock structural, (and indeed the zeitgeist itself) ties and assumptions that bind the union together are being shredded with a million machete and axe blows as we speak.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... will just go away quietly in the night, he wont.
Red Don, will be king maker in the kGOP until he dies or goes to jail ... there's no putting things back together when a cult of personality is leading cult members.
Jus going away is not how cult leading humans act
Celerity
(43,337 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)kentuck
(111,089 posts)Someone who can protect justice and the rule of law.
He/She needs to be tough. Biden does not have to get involved with investigations and such, but the Department of Justice needs to be restored. It needs to be fumigated.
gab13by13
(21,323 posts)Trump's new strategy is to delay certifications and send the election to the Supreme Court. These people are always underestimated. The fuckers are busy confirming judges during the lame duck session. Biden is going to have his hands full trying to work with these traitors.
gab13by13
(21,323 posts)Pompeo is off visiting Israel, UAE, and Saudi Arabia, all enemies of Iran. Why would Pompeo take a world tour in the lame duck session?
We know from reporting that Trump wants to bomb Iran's nuclear site, maybe even with a nuke? Starting WW III would be an excuse for him to stay in power. I think the only thing holding Trump back from bombing Iran is Putin, but Putin may just forego his friendship with Iran to allow a war that he can sit back and watch.
kentuck
(111,089 posts)What goes with that? What happened to his love affair with Trump?
Pompeo is probably trying to close a deal with the countries mentioned. They have long wanted nuclear energy plants. Rumors of nuclear plants in the Middle East have been around for awhile and both Trump and Netanyahu were pushing the deal.
BSdetect
(8,998 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... races for the kGOP seeing their bullshit pulls those margins as an average.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)I think they are going to be the problem once all of Trumps avenues to overturn the votes are exhausted. They are relatively quiet right now because they are watching the process and are still being assured by Trump that he won.
The rabid supporters in my area are completely loyal to Trump and some of them are antsy to prove that. They whip one another into a frenzy just like a cult. They have a structure with a leader of each small band of supporters. There are a lot of them around here. They have guns.
The police are on their side for the most part.
Who will save us from them when they go ballistic when they are told Trump has no further recourse?
Democratic leadership scares me because during the moments of wanting us all to come together, healing the country and going high, they forget these groups and that they are going to have to be dealt with. There will be no reasoning with these crazies. There needs to be a plan in place to handle the almost certain repercussions and mayhem that these groups may cause.
BBbats
(89 posts)I live in a suburb of Philadelpia,PA.
It's more blue then it used to be but Trumpanzees are legion and scary. You can't "reach out" to these people.
They won't listen. Do you know why? Because they have certain fixed notions about the past. Any change would be blasphemy in their eyes, even if it were the truth. They don't want the truth; they want their traditions.
― Isaac Asimov, Pebble in the Sky
kentuck
(111,089 posts)Maybe they are the Cult Party?
They seem to have no idea of what they really want from government? Many would probably prefer "no government"?
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)The leaders know this and push the right buttons to make these idiots feel that they belong. Then the leaders demand loyalty or threaten to evict the idiots from the group.
Ive not heard one Dem say anything about how this will be dealt with when these groups start their rage. I think thats a mistake for Dems not to have plans in place. The police are NOT going to be reliable for enforcing the rule of law in many of these Trump loving areas.
You have only to look at the social media pages of these Trump band leaders to see that they are planning something and that they have no expectation that Biden will ever take office.
Im sorry, but its scary.
Turin_C3PO
(13,975 posts)damage as he can in the next 60 days. It's going to be a bumpy ride. But make no mistake, he WILL leave in January even if he has to be dragged out in handcuffs by the Secret Service or US Marshalls.
kentuck
(111,089 posts)Isn't Trump their Boss ??
On noon of the day of the inauguration, the office leaves Donald Trump. The Secret Service and other agencies immediately become loyal to the new president, which will be Biden. Based on articles I've read, the SS has no love for the Trump family so you don't have to worry about any sedition from their end.
kentuck
(111,089 posts)They should have a couple of US Marshals nearby, just in case he has any second thoughts.
Turin_C3PO
(13,975 posts)refuses to leave. I'd love to see him frogmarched out of the Whitehouse in handcuffs. It probably won't happen though. He'll likely leave before Bidens inauguration and hole up in Mar-a-Lago. I guarantee you he won't be gracious and attend the inauguration ceremony or shake Biden's hand.
Harker
(14,015 posts)I'm pretty sure every nightmare scenario involving declaring an emergency, instituting martial law, and calling out the "militias" has already been considered.
Firestorm49
(4,032 posts)1 Trump thinks he still is holding what he believes to be the wild card. He believes that he can still pull it off, hence, no concession.
2 The obvious alternative; He very likely could become the first former president to be jailed, and hes crapping his pants at the thought. Personally, nothing could make all of us on DU happier.
#1 should be of more concern. Will it be a massive armed conflict? Does he think he can change enough electors votes to upend a landslide election? Could he actually attempt a coup? Answer; any one of the above.
We continue to scratch our heads at the greatest buffoon to have ever occupied the White House. My hope is that the relatively silent Democrat leadership is equally armed to counter whatever offensive the fool has in his little childlike cranium.
Sedona
(3,769 posts)Did I miss something?
karin_sj
(808 posts)... the Supreme Court and many, many federal courts. They probably think that sooner or later they're going to have one or more of "their" judges making a decision in their favor, proof or no proof. This is scary, treasonous, and outrageous.