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H2O Man

(73,993 posts)
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 06:05 PM Nov 2020

Being Our Fist

"He's the estranged father who returns on Christmas Eve to murder his wife and children." I didn't need to ask my brother who he was talking about when I read his e-mail. A few moments later -- before I had time to respond, his second message came through: Trump had just fired Mark Esper.

A few hours later, he sent a picture from this summer, of Trump giving Esper a hate stare. "These are the eyes of a man who is not well," he wrote. I responded by saying that on DU about a year ago, in a discussion about Trump's being a sociopath, I had noted that one could see the evil within him from his eyes. I noted that a number of forum members agreed.

An hour later, he wrote that he thinks Trump will try to start a war with Iran in January, declare a national emergency, and refuse to participate in a peaceful transfer of power. I had to disagree, at least in part, with this. It is far more likely, I suggested, that he escalates his war on America, and declare that it is a national emergency requiring him to remain in office. The firing of Esper can be viewed in that context, among others.

I am confident about the eventual outcome. I think that the judicial branch will -- exactly as community members that know have assured us for over a year -- hold strong. That doesn't mean ever decision will go our way, of course, but Joe Biden will take the office on January 20. Thus, the important questions involve how much damage Trump and his cult will do between now and then, and how do we respond to hold them in check.

While it seems obvious to me, it may be worth saying that there is no single correct correct response, but there are incorrect reactions. Individuals and groups that are progressive, liberal, moderate, or conservative Democrats can -- and should -- view different things in very different ways. Yet we cannot afford to allow these differences to divide us in our struggle to repair the damages the republicans have inflicted on our society. No single person or sub-group within our party has a monopoly on being right.

I'm reminded of something that Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman taught years ago. Individuals and even groups are like a single finger that our enemy can easily twist and break. But together, those fingers form a powerful fist, capable of protecting all of us.

Be part of this fist.
H2O Man

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Being Our Fist (Original Post) H2O Man Nov 2020 OP
Yes. Family annihilator. Democracy annihilator. Solly Mack Nov 2020 #1
It's so true! H2O Man Nov 2020 #23
I've also encountered a few like Trump. A couple of them worse, if only by more obvious measures. Solly Mack Nov 2020 #39
Maybe this is why CIA director Gina Haspel just went into Mitch McConnell's office BComplex Nov 2020 #2
I feel a Military Coup is happening. chomper Nov 2020 #4
No. Not coming. Not military. Joint Chiefs been giving briefings they won't participate in post-elec Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2020 #19
Thank you! H2O Man Nov 2020 #25
I drew a great deal of comfort EndlessWire Nov 2020 #41
Look at the dates: August, October, November. They made their decision and are sticking to it. Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2020 #32
Very good! H2O Man Nov 2020 #34
Interesting! H2O Man Nov 2020 #26
Same here. 1968 feels like two lifetimes ago. nt Hekate Nov 2020 #31
It does! H2O Man Nov 2020 #35
I was 15 in '68. I think so many of us felt... electric_blue68 Nov 2020 #44
Great post malaise Nov 2020 #3
Thanks! H2O Man Nov 2020 #27
"These are the eyes of a man who is not well," sheshe2 Nov 2020 #5
Thank you! H2O Man Nov 2020 #28
You should read Karma13612 Nov 2020 #38
Before the election the Unions Zoonart Nov 2020 #6
Right. H2O Man Nov 2020 #29
Where is Trump? Is he so broken and psychologically livetohike Nov 2020 #7
Yes! H2O Man Nov 2020 #30
My fist is clenched. cayugafalls Nov 2020 #8
At a time when Trump is doing his best to not only pit Democrats vs Republicans, mtnsnake Nov 2020 #9
I showed a fist today. There was silence. Clearly fogged in Nov 2020 #10
"bubbles in the spot on my car"? What is this? JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2020 #12
autocorrect from spit Clearly fogged in Nov 2020 #14
Got it, thanks. Too bad the idiots can't respect people with differing .. JustABozoOnThisBus Nov 2020 #40
I "think" he meant spit. Ferrets are Cool Nov 2020 #15
If you missed Dateline: White House Nicole Wallace bucolic_frolic Nov 2020 #11
Go to her first hour for an outstanding Frank Figluzzi interview. He said, putting on his... Hekate Nov 2020 #33
Iran recently said EndlessWire Nov 2020 #42
Biden Campaign Officials Give Legal Briefing on Election Victory coeur_de_lion Nov 2020 #13
Wise words ornotna Nov 2020 #16
K&R spanone Nov 2020 #17
President-elect Biden on President Trump not conceding: coeur_de_lion Nov 2020 #18
Trump has now fired three more Pentagon officials. Lonestarblue Nov 2020 #20
Great post and so true. We must put up a united front judesedit Nov 2020 #21
To the best of my ability, warmfeet Nov 2020 #22
Despite what has happened, and we have ojective, empirical evidence of that, BobTheSubgenius Nov 2020 #24
Regarding Democrats sticking together lunatica Nov 2020 #36
K&R Blue Owl Nov 2020 #37
I knew Trump was a sociopath the second I laid eyes on him. Roisin Ni Fiachra Nov 2020 #43

Solly Mack

(90,880 posts)
1. Yes. Family annihilator. Democracy annihilator.
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 06:13 PM
Nov 2020

We talk about him in just those terms in my home too.

K&R

H2O Man

(73,993 posts)
23. It's so true!
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 08:29 PM
Nov 2020

I encountered versions of Donald-like sociopaths in my work years ago. A few were in county jail, a couple heading to state prison. Reptile-like eyes, empty of anything human.

Solly Mack

(90,880 posts)
39. I've also encountered a few like Trump. A couple of them worse, if only by more obvious measures.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 01:10 AM
Nov 2020

Smaller pool of victims and charged offenses v. say, a world leader.

But the eyes, they all have the eyes in common, I agree. I've always thought of the eyes as flat, as in a flat note. Not in tune with their environment (humans), so to speak. Even the sharpest were a beat behind. That infinitesimal pause that you have to be listening for to see it for what it means.

I had to stop listening to Trump because of it. I didn't need to listen to him again to know.



Bernardo de La Paz

(49,309 posts)
19. No. Not coming. Not military. Joint Chiefs been giving briefings they won't participate in post-elec
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 07:53 PM
Nov 2020

... won't participate in post-election nonsense.

EndlessWire

(6,700 posts)
41. I drew a great deal of comfort
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 08:15 AM
Nov 2020

from that, until I realized that Trump can and will fire all four Chiefs and replace them with Trumpers.

My hopes are that when that happens, the Chiefs come together and organize, using their years of experience, and letting the troops see it happening.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,309 posts)
32. Look at the dates: August, October, November. They made their decision and are sticking to it.
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 09:02 PM
Nov 2020


Chairman of Joint Chiefs says no role for military in ...
www.nbcnews.com › politics › 2020-election › chairma...
Aug 28, 2020 — WASHINGTON— The U.S. armed forces will have no role in carrying out the election process or resolving a disputed vote, the top U.S. military ...

Gen. Mark Milley Says The Military Plays 'No Role' In Elections ...
www.npr.org › 2020/10/11 › gen-mark-milley-says-the-...
Oct 11, 2020 — As the presidential election looms, Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, tells NPR's Morning Edition that the military plays no ...

Top generals tamp down election concerns in private briefing ...
thehill.com › policy › defense › 524262-top-generals-t...
Nov 3, 2020 — Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. ... anchors over the weekend to dispel fears that the military might play a role in the presidential election.

Military has no role in presidential election - Axios
www.axios.com › Politics & Policy › 2020 election
Nov 3, 2020 — Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley held an off-the-record video call with top generals and network anchors this weekend to tamp ...

H2O Man

(73,993 posts)
26. Interesting!
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 08:34 PM
Nov 2020

Strange days have found us, as Jim Morrison noted fifty years ago. I had thought for certain that 1968 was the craziest year I'd live through, and that Nixon was the worst president possible.

How wrong I was.

electric_blue68

(15,357 posts)
44. I was 15 in '68. I think so many of us felt...
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 05:14 PM
Nov 2020

battered that year. With PTSD echoes in much of our National Pysche down through the decades.



Sigh.

sheshe2

(84,465 posts)
5. "These are the eyes of a man who is not well,"
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 06:19 PM
Nov 2020

“The eyes are the mirror of the soul and reflect everything that seems to be hidden"

-tRump is soulless and his eyes reflect the blackness residing inside him.

Thank you.

H2O Man

(73,993 posts)
28. Thank you!
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 08:47 PM
Nov 2020

I remember years ago, a Clan Mother I knew while working for Chief Waterman used to say that there were people lacking souls walking the streets in America. She said they posed a danger to civil society.

I was talking to another Clan Mother this summer about how bad things were (are) going under Trump. She said that she was surprised how quickly the pace was going. She added, "I didn't think I'd see it in my lifetime." I reminded her that Faithkeeper Oren Lyons had told us that we would see it in our life-times.

Yet we are witnessing a much more powerrful force arising across the country: Good People. And there is nothing stronger than Good People sticking together to advocate for social justice.

Zoonart

(12,034 posts)
6. Before the election the Unions
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 06:23 PM
Nov 2020

discussed a General Strike if tRump refused to concede. Perhaps it is time to start some real planning.

H2O Man

(73,993 posts)
29. Right.
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 08:52 PM
Nov 2020

I'd love to see that!

I maintain contact with a variety of union members and regional officials. There are a unacceptable number of western PA union workers that voted for Trump. How can any union member support a thief that stole from union workers? One of my relatives, long retired, says that unions need to provide more education about unions' history with both parties.

livetohike

(22,222 posts)
7. Where is Trump? Is he so broken and psychologically
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 06:30 PM
Nov 2020

impaired after this loss that he can’t appear in public? So many cowards in the GOP. Someone needs to medicate him and tell him to
let it go.

H2O Man

(73,993 posts)
30. Yes!
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 08:56 PM
Nov 2020

I suppose that it is no surprise that a guy who was a sore winner in 2016 is a sore loser now. What a pathetic, weak little man. The republicans need to treat him like an obnoxious, spoiled child.

mtnsnake

(22,236 posts)
9. At a time when Trump is doing his best to not only pit Democrats vs Republicans,
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 06:31 PM
Nov 2020

he is doing his best to pit Democrats against Democrats, so your post is spot on about the importance of having each others backs. As long as we stick together we can beat the stupidity and arrogance of Trump with our intelligence and our persistence.

Clearly fogged in

(1,896 posts)
10. I showed a fist today. There was silence.
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 07:08 PM
Nov 2020

This area is beet red merc, they haven't been making a presence the last few days. Coming out of a parts store today i saw bubbles in the spit on my car. There were a few hanging near their cars that i eyed, and i called out for anyone who was man enough to spot on my car to man up. Like i said, silence. They don't understand.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,476 posts)
12. "bubbles in the spot on my car"? What is this?
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 07:29 PM
Nov 2020

Was it vandalism? Ruin the paint? I understand your anger if someone messed with your car, I just don't understand the "bubbles".

Clearly fogged in

(1,896 posts)
14. autocorrect from spit
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 07:41 PM
Nov 2020

Tx, I'll fix

I've got a small car with dem bumper stickers. Seeing it you wouldn't expect me. So some coward spit on it. I wasn't mad but couldn't resist making them all look weak.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,476 posts)
40. Got it, thanks. Too bad the idiots can't respect people with differing ..
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 06:07 AM
Nov 2020

... political opinions.

You are a braver soul than me. I don't put political signage on my car; I know parking lots are hazardous enough without provoking small minds.

bucolic_frolic

(44,007 posts)
11. If you missed Dateline: White House Nicole Wallace
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 07:29 PM
Nov 2020

the last segment they talked about Trump replacing many Pentagon officials today one of whom was nominated and withdrew his nomination, some of them passed over by Senate Republicans. David Plouffe, Courtney Kube, and Claire McCaskill were on and all were very alarmed. Kube (sp? don't know if I've got that right) mentioned issues with Syria, Iran, and withdrawal from Afghanistan.

Don't know what to think here. Coupled with Pompeo's smooth transition to Trump2 administration? Ginning something up to remain in power and cancelling the election? With Pompeo it's always about Iran.

Buckle up folks.

Hekate

(91,602 posts)
33. Go to her first hour for an outstanding Frank Figluzzi interview. He said, putting on his...
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 09:11 PM
Nov 2020

...”former FBI hat” that Trump has now become what they call a “barricaded subject.”

He says Joe Biden must have someone very very good advising him, because he is handling this first phase perfectly.

Other phases will follow, as Trump refuses to budge. Toward the end is where he gets told: “We can do this the easy way or the hard way,” but he will leave the White House. He will.

There is a second Figluzzi interview toward the end, when the news broke about the trashing if the Pentagon.

Highly recommended.



EndlessWire

(6,700 posts)
42. Iran recently said
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 08:27 AM
Nov 2020

that they want to revisit the nuclear deal they had with us.

Trump needs a country to fight with, and he can't do that with Russia, China, or NK. So, he picked Iran 4 years ago.

coeur_de_lion

(3,703 posts)
13. Biden Campaign Officials Give Legal Briefing on Election Victory
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 07:30 PM
Nov 2020

[link:

|

This is somewhat helpful to explain that no matter what delay tactics 45 tries the result of the election is indisputable and Biden will be inaugurated on January 20.

coeur_de_lion

(3,703 posts)
18. President-elect Biden on President Trump not conceding:
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 07:48 PM
Nov 2020

“I just think it’s an embarrassment, quite frankly ... At the end of the day, you know, it’s all going to come to fruition on Jan. 20.”

[link:


?s=20|

Lonestarblue

(10,476 posts)
20. Trump has now fired three more Pentagon officials.
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 08:04 PM
Nov 2020

One person he put in charge was so unqualified, even Republicans refused to confirm him to a position last summer. Trump is preparing for something, though I’m not sure what. Why else fire Esper and three other Pentagon officials.

And today Pompeo talked about a transition to Trump’s second term. I’m very afraid that this election is being overturned as we get deliberate lies from White House leaks making it appear that aides accept that Trump has lost but they’re just mollycoddling him. A president who is depressed and just refusing to accept defeat doesn’t suddenly start changing the leadership of the Pentagon. This is not a joke any longer. Something is being planned.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,609 posts)
24. Despite what has happened, and we have ojective, empirical evidence of that,
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 08:30 PM
Nov 2020

it's still very hard for me to grasp what is going on in real time, and out in public. I thought for years that it would be hard to top the awful Presidency of the Smirking Chimp, but boy, was I wrong.

This crowd of miscreants, especially the top tier, has left those amateurs breathing their dust.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
36. Regarding Democrats sticking together
Tue Nov 10, 2020, 11:17 PM
Nov 2020

I wrote this in an earlier OP but it bears repeating.

You are sooooo right! The country has just been saved and plucked at the last second at the top of a Niagara like waterfall that would have crushed it utterly on the rocks at the foot of the falls, yet some observers are getting pissy that the saviors aren’t who they think should be doing it.

It makes me want to yank my hair out in pure frustration. It’s a miracle anything gets done at all.

Roisin Ni Fiachra

(2,574 posts)
43. I knew Trump was a sociopath the second I laid eyes on him.
Wed Nov 11, 2020, 11:36 AM
Nov 2020

I haven't watched TV for 40+ years, except in passing. I didn't even really know who Trump was the first time I saw his face. He was on a TV that I was passing by, and I stopped for a second. Trump was exclaiming "You're Fired" at someone.

I thought to myself, "Wow, that is one scary dangerous asshole". Because of his eyes, and facial expression, not because of what he said.

I never even thought about him again until he ran for POTUS in 2016. I didn't worry about him then, because I thought that most everyone would instantly recognize that he is a sociopath.

I am very disappointed that so many people adore Trump. There is a mass sickness of the spirit extant among so many of the people of this country. For so many to not be able to recognize Trump for the evil that he is, or worse, to personally identify with the evil that he is, troubles and saddens me almost beyond my capacity to bear.

United Against the evil one. I recognize what Trump is, and will struggle against him until he is no longer a threat, or I am too feeble to struggle, or I am dead. Even if I am the last person standing who will fight the fascists, I will never give up.

Solidarity!

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