help me with this Mitt graph (facebook post)

[Locrian]

This is showing up from fb posts: anyone have quick points I can use on this? Facts vs Mittens fiction?

[Waltons_Mtn]

1. When do the President and Vice President get to vote on legislation?

As far as I know, Biden has not used his deciding vote in the Senate. (I might be wrong.) Obviously, they are using some OLD obscure senate votes. I would ask them to specify the legislation within the past 4 years that they have VOTED on.

[caraher]

4. I think I found it

They're going all the way back to 1993 with this, and it was Biden and not Obama. From ABC News' fact check site (which seems biased strongly pro-Romney in the way they analyze things)

Joe Biden voted for higher social Security taxes. Fact.

This allegation from the Romney campaign is based on the Senate vote on Bill Clinton’s 1993 budget, which raised the amount of Social Security benefits subject to income tax for seniors making more than $34,000 a year. The revenue goes into the Medicare trust fund. Then-Senator Biden voted for the bill and so did Vice President Al Gore (breaking 50-50 tie).

[caraher]

2. It's kind of odd...

First, I'm not sure what it could even mean to say that Obama and Biden "voted" to do this unless they're dredging up something from when they were both in the Senate. Biden has no role in enacting legislation and Obama either signs or does not sign a bill; neither "votes" as members of the executive branch.

I thought I'd see if Obama's "Truth Team" has anything on this. Their latest item is this:



They also have a video on the R/R plan taxing benefits.

You might also pass this on to them for debunking.

[Flashmann]

3. anyone have quick points I can use on this?

Consider the credibility of the source.....Nuff said?

[JHB]

5. He wants to "close loopholes". SOMEONE pays more in taxes when tax breaks go away...

...and most of the time the Grover Norquist crowd calls that "raising taxes", just to point out an inconsistency on the Elephantine side of things.


If Romney's loophole closing reduces or removes, say, your home mortgage tax deduction, is he "raising taxes"? After all, the rate didn't change! So he claims he's "not raising taxes on anyone", but in the end you'll have to fork over more even as he cuts rates for "the job creators".

(If they can make more money through tax reductions, why would they need to hire more people?)

[AnnaLee]

6. Start by getting the facts

Note they label it Obama and Biden. The ABC fact check (don't alway rely on just one of these fact checkers) says this comes from Biden's 1993 vote to means test with a tax on 85%. $34,000 was good money back then. (You must determine if this has been raised because one of the tricks played with SS is to tax the "rich" with rich being defined low and not tied to inflation.) OK, the salient point is the value of $34K in 1993 and what is true today AND the FACT that the added taxes are put back into the Medicare.

ABC Factcheck

Joe Biden voted for higher social Security taxes. Fact.

This allegation from the Romney campaign is based on the Senate vote on Bill Clinton’s 1993 budget, which raised the amount of Social Security benefits subject to income tax for seniors making more than $34,000 a year. The revenue goes into the Medicare trust fund. Then-Senator Biden voted for the bill and so did Vice President Al Gore (breaking 50-50 tie).

The second one is obvious but you might look up some details to link. NO, it promises senior that they will get to suck the life-blood out of their children and grandchildren but the children and grandchildren won't pay more taxes, they just will eat out of dumpsters in their retirement if they dare retire.

The best thing to do if you are serious is to come up with a fake "sign" like the original with talking points that, while vague, can be proved true.

[Waltons_Mtn]

7. So basically it's a lie. President Obama never voted for an increase.

[AnnaLee]

8. Another suggestion. Check out the link in the post I just made here:

Link to DeLong and Ryan audio

If Biden's voting record almost before Obama came of age can be Obama's fault then so can Ryan's statement be Romney's fault.

[Locrian]

9. thanks

thanks - posted some responses. not sure if it will do any good as there has been some serous kool-aid consumed.