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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCatholic deacon told congregation not to vote for Biden.
I was not present when this happened, but I heard it from two sources, one of which was in the congregation and heard the deacon. I will refer to this person as the "Source".
"Source" was at mass on a Saturday about 2 weeks ago. According to the "Source", the deacon expressed his personal beliefs on this election. The deacon told the congregation not to vote for Biden. The deacon said that Biden was going to turn this country communist. The "Source walked out and others did also.
The next day (Sunday) at 9 am mass, the parish priest told the congregation that he spoke to the deacon twice and apologized for what the deacon said. It was not nice or good. Despite what the parish priest said, the parish priest put democrats down also.
The "Source" has voted already, and voted for Biden. The "Source is tired of Trump's lies, foul language, and his bully ways.
I'm already looking for a new church.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,437 posts)My Pet Orangutan
(9,343 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,119 posts)Churches are not allowed to take positions on candidates, without putting their tax exempt status in jeopardy.
Patterson
(1,533 posts)crickets
(25,988 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,119 posts)which do you think is more likely to make a difference - filing a formal complaint or whining on DU?
The law can't be enforced wtihout someone filing a complaint, since the IRS doesn't send people around to sit in church pews on Saturday/Sunday to make sure they aren't endorsing candidates. The violations have to be reported for enforcement to occur.
File the complaint. If nothing happens, then get back to me. But don't complain about rumored non-enforcement without taking the steps necessary to obtain enforcement.
Here's the form: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf
FBaggins
(26,778 posts)Due to a pastor endorsing a candidate?
The closest that I can think of was a DC circuit court opinion (Branch Ministries v. Rossotti) that involved a church spending money to purchase a newspaper ad.
It's very likely (certainly with the upcoming SCOTUS makeup) that the Johnson Amendment would be considered unconstitutional if applied to a pastor speaking from the pulpit.
The IRS appears to know this. There have been dozens of pastors who have been self-reporting themselves to the IRS (saying essentially "come and get us" because they want the run the matter through the courts and get the amendment thrown out. The IRS hasn't taken them up on the challenge... so I doubt they would in this case either.
OLDMDDEM
(1,577 posts)Years back my wife and I walked out of our church, never to return, when the minister stated they had sample ballots to help people in voting. The sample ballot was checked to vote for all republicans.
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)Is probably a holdover from The Spanish Inquisition. Call him Deacon Red.
Nobody expects that!
Let me mix some of my religion in your politics. I thought that was prohibited, but now, who cares, anything goes.
Just sayin'...
dware
(12,449 posts)And couldn't this be grounds for the IRS to revoke their tax exemption?
Patterson
(1,533 posts)dware
(12,449 posts)Or maybe not, I can see where it could be used to suppress certain churches that don't adhere to the political position of the R party.
FBaggins
(26,778 posts)See #23 above.
But that wasn't political speech in the pulpit... it was running an ad in the paper. Arguably very different.
JHB
(37,163 posts)...but the IRS isn't going to take action against the Catholic church, nor even one parish. Especially not when the Howler Monkey still has his stinking paws on the controls of the executive branch.
dware
(12,449 posts)but I can dream.
muntrv
(14,505 posts)Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)Time to look into that ruling. Many of our ancestors came to America to escape religious persecution, right? Three of my relatives did.
They've been flirting with this for years. Time to either come to an understanding or remove the tax-free stipulations.
maxsolomon
(33,440 posts)The IRS doesn't hold any Religious Institution to it, let alone the RCC, let alone a Deacon, who aren't even priests.
The IRS allowed SCIENTOLOGY to become a tax-exempt religion.
Ohiogal
(32,130 posts)Too many hypocrites
onetexan
(13,077 posts)Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)SWBTATTReg
(22,188 posts)the tax fraud, the lying, etc. that I wonder on what planet did you grow up on? It's not the same one I grew up on.
Mariana
(14,861 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Report this person to the IRS.
Mariana
(14,861 posts)There is no enforcement.
dware
(12,449 posts)shrike3
(3,836 posts)I now belong to one that is largely African American, and it is one of the better decisions I've made.
True Blue American
(17,995 posts)That teaches, Following in the Footsteps of Jesus. the 2 Pastors set the Church in a new direction.
Love They Neighbor and inclusion.
shrike3
(3,836 posts)I'm happy for you. I left my longtime parish after Trump got in, church-hopped for a while, then found just what I was looking for in a black parish. May you have the same experience.
True Blue American
(17,995 posts)This Church is a Brethren, almost across the street from me. An old Church of the Bretren.. I would not have gone to the old Church. They built a new Church across the street and hired 2 Ministers.
Almost across the street from me. You find the love and inclusion in most of your predominantly black Churches. Trust me I know!
PurgedVoter
(2,220 posts)The individual who would be giving me communion and I differed over the issue of waterboarding and I could no longer feel comfortable accepting communion.
NameAlreadyTaken
(982 posts)Mariana
(14,861 posts)Lotusflower70
(3,077 posts)On so many levels. It is completely unacceptable for the church to do this. Churches should lose their tax exempt status.
Mariana
(14,861 posts)It's most prevalent in the Evangelical ones, but it's not exclusive to them by any means. There will be no enforcement.
True Blue American
(17,995 posts)Mariana
(14,861 posts)I'm sure there was plenty of encouragement from their clergy then as well.
shrike3
(3,836 posts)is from white Catholics. Hispanic Catholics not so much. Among AA Catholics, I imagine his support is negligible. Why I go to an AA Catholic Church.
True Blue American
(17,995 posts)Obama ran. Big expose.
I was in a Protestant Church. The old bigoted Pastor told us to vote against Obama. I reported him to the Investigative Reporters. I left, so did half the Church over time. The new young Pastor came to visit me. I told him why I left. He assured me that would not happen, but I was going elsewhere.
MaryMagdaline
(6,858 posts)Quemado
(1,262 posts)They are allowed to do so. https://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2013/09/26/what-can-and-cant-a-deacon-do/
MaryMagdaline
(6,858 posts)Sogo
(5,006 posts)I 2004, I was attending my mother's church with her, and during the sermon, the priest said that anyone who voted Democrat was complicit in murder and that the Catholic hospitals would be forced to do abortions.
It was all I could do to not stand up and confront the priest right there on the spot. I did not,r only because my Mom would have been mortified.
If these idiots are going to be telling people from the alter how to vote, they should lose their tax-exempt status.
OnDoutside
(19,982 posts)Beringia
(4,316 posts)My father was a dyed in the wool Catholic for part of his life, almost became a monk. But he went his own way later. I visited my 3 aunts from his side once and they had on the Catholic TV station, it was wall to wall men and gave me the heebie-jeebies.
healthnut7
(249 posts)WyattKansas
(1,648 posts)People should be asking the Vatican why the Pope has his Catholic Churches pushing tRUMP's attacks on Biden?
And swamping the Vatican about it's belligerent abuse of their followers with fear tactics to favor tRUMP will only cause a further backlash within the Catholic Church and it's ability to be taken seriously, especially for favoring a thug without any morals or religious values.
Why toy with a nonstarter with the IRS when you can make the Deacon be accountable for his abuse of power from his bosses?
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)True Blue American
(17,995 posts)SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)ALL OF THEM