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Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:22 PM

Catholic deacon told congregation not to vote for Biden.

I was not present when this happened, but I heard it from two sources, one of which was in the congregation and heard the deacon. I will refer to this person as the "Source".

"Source" was at mass on a Saturday about 2 weeks ago. According to the "Source", the deacon expressed his personal beliefs on this election. The deacon told the congregation not to vote for Biden. The deacon said that Biden was going to turn this country communist. The "Source walked out and others did also.

The next day (Sunday) at 9 am mass, the parish priest told the congregation that he spoke to the deacon twice and apologized for what the deacon said. It was not nice or good. Despite what the parish priest said, the parish priest put democrats down also.

The "Source" has voted already, and voted for Biden. The "Source is tired of Trump's lies, foul language, and his bully ways.

I'm already looking for a new church.

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Arrow 50 replies Author Time Post
Reply Catholic deacon told congregation not to vote for Biden. (Original post)
Quemado Oct 2020 OP
Eyeball_Kid Oct 2020 #1
My Pet Orangutan Oct 2020 #2
Ms. Toad Oct 2020 #3
Patterson Oct 2020 #9
crickets Oct 2020 #19
Ms. Toad Oct 2020 #28
FBaggins Oct 2020 #23
OLDMDDEM Oct 2020 #31
Newest Reality Oct 2020 #4
dware Oct 2020 #5
Patterson Oct 2020 #10
dware Oct 2020 #12
FBaggins Oct 2020 #24
JHB Oct 2020 #16
dware Oct 2020 #18
muntrv Oct 2020 #6
Frustratedlady Oct 2020 #7
maxsolomon Oct 2020 #33
Ohiogal Oct 2020 #8
onetexan Oct 2020 #17
Binkie The Clown Oct 2020 #11
SWBTATTReg Oct 2020 #14
Mariana Oct 2020 #30
lagomorph777 Oct 2020 #13
Mariana Oct 2020 #27
dware Oct 2020 #29
shrike3 Oct 2020 #15
True Blue American Oct 2020 #35
shrike3 Oct 2020 #43
True Blue American Oct 2020 #47
PurgedVoter Oct 2020 #20
NameAlreadyTaken Oct 2020 #21
Mariana Oct 2020 #26
Lotusflower70 Oct 2020 #22
Mariana Oct 2020 #25
True Blue American Oct 2020 #34
Mariana Oct 2020 #38
shrike3 Oct 2020 #49
True Blue American Oct 2020 #32
MaryMagdaline Oct 2020 #36
Quemado Oct 2020 #41
MaryMagdaline Oct 2020 #45
Sogo Oct 2020 #37
OnDoutside Oct 2020 #39
Beringia Oct 2020 #40
healthnut7 Oct 2020 #42
WyattKansas Oct 2020 #44
Trumpocalypse Oct 2020 #46
True Blue American Oct 2020 #48
SoonerPride Oct 2020 #50

Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:24 PM

1. Disgusting lack of judgement. n/t

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:25 PM

2. Deacons are nobodies.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:25 PM

3. Report it to the IRS.

Churches are not allowed to take positions on candidates, without putting their tax exempt status in jeopardy.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:28 PM

9. This has not ever been enforced.

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Response to Patterson (Reply #9)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:45 PM

19. Perhaps the time has come to enforce it. nt

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Response to Patterson (Reply #9)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:49 PM

28. While enforcement is less frequent than it should be,

which do you think is more likely to make a difference - filing a formal complaint or whining on DU?

The law can't be enforced wtihout someone filing a complaint, since the IRS doesn't send people around to sit in church pews on Saturday/Sunday to make sure they aren't endorsing candidates. The violations have to be reported for enforcement to occur.

File the complaint. If nothing happens, then get back to me. But don't complain about rumored non-enforcement without taking the steps necessary to obtain enforcement.

Here's the form: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:46 PM

23. Can you name a church that ever lost their tax exempt status

Due to a pastor endorsing a candidate?

The closest that I can think of was a DC circuit court opinion (Branch Ministries v. Rossotti) that involved a church spending money to purchase a newspaper ad.

It's very likely (certainly with the upcoming SCOTUS makeup) that the Johnson Amendment would be considered unconstitutional if applied to a pastor speaking from the pulpit.

The IRS appears to know this. There have been dozens of pastors who have been self-reporting themselves to the IRS (saying essentially "come and get us" because they want the run the matter through the courts and get the amendment thrown out. The IRS hasn't taken them up on the challenge... so I doubt they would in this case either.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:53 PM

31. I agree with you

Years back my wife and I walked out of our church, never to return, when the minister stated they had sample ballots to help people in voting. The sample ballot was checked to vote for all republicans.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:26 PM

4. That deacon...

Is probably a holdover from The Spanish Inquisition. Call him Deacon Red.

Nobody expects that!

Let me mix some of my religion in your politics. I thought that was prohibited, but now, who cares, anything goes.

Just sayin'...

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:26 PM

5. Couldn't this be considered political speech?

And couldn't this be grounds for the IRS to revoke their tax exemption?

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Response to dware (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:29 PM

10. That has never happened.

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Response to Patterson (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:31 PM

12. Maybe it's time to start enforcing it.

Or maybe not, I can see where it could be used to suppress certain churches that don't adhere to the political position of the R party.

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Response to Patterson (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:48 PM

24. Has happened one time

See #23 above.

But that wasn't political speech in the pulpit... it was running an ad in the paper. Arguably very different.

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Response to dware (Reply #5)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:37 PM

16. Considered? It's explicitly political...

...but the IRS isn't going to take action against the Catholic church, nor even one parish. Especially not when the Howler Monkey still has his stinking paws on the controls of the executive branch.

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Response to JHB (Reply #16)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:39 PM

18. Yeah, I don't expect anything to happen either,

but I can dream.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:27 PM

6. Tax that church.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:27 PM

7. You can't do that and remain a tax-free church, right?

Time to look into that ruling. Many of our ancestors came to America to escape religious persecution, right? Three of my relatives did.

They've been flirting with this for years. Time to either come to an understanding or remove the tax-free stipulations.

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Response to Frustratedlady (Reply #7)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:57 PM

33. Widely ignored rule.

The IRS doesn't hold any Religious Institution to it, let alone the RCC, let alone a Deacon, who aren't even priests.

The IRS allowed SCIENTOLOGY to become a tax-exempt religion.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:28 PM

8. Why I quit going to Mass.

Too many hypocrites

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Response to Ohiogal (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:38 PM

17. ditto. organized religion is way overrated.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:31 PM

11. Ask the priest if he condones "p*ssy grabbing". nt

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Response to Binkie The Clown (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:35 PM

14. Really. These people are so blind, to these other disgusting traits of trump (the pu&&y grabbing,

the tax fraud, the lying, etc. that I wonder on what planet did you grow up on? It's not the same one I grew up on.

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Response to Binkie The Clown (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:51 PM

30. Or adultery. Trump's on his third wife. nt.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:33 PM

13. bye-bye tax exemption!

Report this person to the IRS.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #13)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:49 PM

27. Churches have been doing this for years.

There is no enforcement.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #13)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:49 PM

29. See Post #23. nt

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:36 PM

15. Try a parish of color

I now belong to one that is largely African American, and it is one of the better decisions I've made.

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Response to shrike3 (Reply #15)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:01 PM

35. I found a Church

That teaches,” Following in the Footsteps of Jesus”. the 2 Pastors set the Church in a new direction.
Love They Neighbor and inclusion.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #35)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:15 PM

43. Wonderful.


I'm happy for you. I left my longtime parish after Trump got in, church-hopped for a while, then found just what I was looking for in a black parish. May you have the same experience.

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Response to shrike3 (Reply #43)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 03:10 PM

47. I know how they are.

This Church is a Brethren, almost across the street from me. An old Church of the Bretren.. I would not have gone to the old Church. They built a new Church across the street and hired 2 Ministers.

Almost across the street from me. You find the love and inclusion in most of your predominantly black Churches. Trust me I know!

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:45 PM

20. I left the church where I loved singing in the choir

The individual who would be giving me communion and I differed over the issue of waterboarding and I could no longer feel comfortable accepting communion.


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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:46 PM

21. Illegal

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Response to NameAlreadyTaken (Reply #21)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:48 PM

26. No enforcement. nt.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:46 PM

22. That's so wrong

On so many levels. It is completely unacceptable for the church to do this. Churches should lose their tax exempt status.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:48 PM

25. This is going on in thousands of Christian churches.

It's most prevalent in the Evangelical ones, but it's not exclusive to them by any means. There will be no enforcement.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #25)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:58 PM

34. Oh, the Catholic Church was worse here.

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #34)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:04 PM

38. The majority of Catholic voters cast their ballots for Trump in 2016.

I'm sure there was plenty of encouragement from their clergy then as well.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #38)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 03:18 PM

49. Fifty-two percent of all Catholics supported Trump. But his mainstay of support


is from white Catholics. Hispanic Catholics not so much. Among AA Catholics, I imagine his support is negligible. Why I go to an AA Catholic Church.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 12:57 PM

32. We had that same problem with the local Catholic Churches when

Obama ran. Big expose.

I was in a Protestant Church. The old bigoted Pastor told us to vote against Obama. I reported him to the Investigative Reporters. I left, so did half the Church over time. The new young Pastor came to visit me. I told him why I left. He assured me that would not happen, but I was going elsewhere.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:03 PM

36. Weird. I never knew deacons could give sermons if any kind. Just read scripture

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Response to MaryMagdaline (Reply #36)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:12 PM

41. Deacons can and do give sermons in the Catholic church.

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Response to Quemado (Reply #41)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:19 PM

45. Thanks. It's been years. I am not up to speed

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:03 PM

37. This sh*t's been going on for years.

I 2004, I was attending my mother's church with her, and during the sermon, the priest said that anyone who voted Democrat was complicit in murder and that the Catholic hospitals would be forced to do abortions.

It was all I could do to not stand up and confront the priest right there on the spot. I did not,r only because my Mom would have been mortified.

If these idiots are going to be telling people from the alter how to vote, they should lose their tax-exempt status.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:06 PM

39. Make sure you let them know why you left.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:08 PM

40. Thanks for sharing



My father was a dyed in the wool Catholic for part of his life, almost became a monk. But he went his own way later. I visited my 3 aunts from his side once and they had on the Catholic TV station, it was wall to wall men and gave me the heebie-jeebies.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:14 PM

42. Right after it was said I would stand up and walk out!

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:16 PM

44. Perhaps instead of trying to get the IRS to enforce it's rules...

People should be asking the Vatican why the Pope has his Catholic Churches pushing tRUMP's attacks on Biden?

And swamping the Vatican about it's belligerent abuse of their followers with fear tactics to favor tRUMP will only cause a further backlash within the Catholic Church and it's ability to be taken seriously, especially for favoring a thug without any morals or religious values.

Why toy with a nonstarter with the IRS when you can make the Deacon be accountable for his abuse of power from his bosses?

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:21 PM

46. Complain to your bishop.

 

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Response to Trumpocalypse (Reply #46)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 03:12 PM

48. A lot of Catholics here changed Churches they were so angry.

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Response to Quemado (Original post)

Mon Oct 26, 2020, 03:27 PM

50. TAX THE CHURCHES INTO OBLIVION

ALL OF THEM

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