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H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 02:13 PM Oct 2020

Bad Apple Trees

“Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.” -- Isaac Asimov

It's not like we didn't know. Hell, I'm old enough to remember the bombing of the Birmingham church in 1963, that killed Addie Mae Collins, Cynthis Wesley, Carole Robertson, and Carol Denise McNair, and wounded more than twenty other people. Martin Luther King, Jr., called it "one of the most vicious and tragic crimes ever perpetrated against humanity." And I remember that there were no criminal charges pressed against those who bombed the church until one of the four thugs was finally convicted in 1977, despite the FBI's knowing their identies from 1965 on.

The gaggle of turds that were planning to "overthrow" the government of the state of Michigan are of the same basic make-up as the klansmen who bombed that church, or one of the many other bombings from that era. The sheriff that shared a stage with one of the terrorists now claims the group were merely doing what many others wanted to do -- arrest the governor. In the past, that claim would have been a successful defense strategy for the defendants' legal defense. But not today.

An associate told me that the pictures of the terrorists made them look like in-bred clowns, not equal to the accomplishments of their grandiose intentions. While I agree on the first part -- for they indeed look like a branch that split off from human evolution a million years ago, resulting in what is known as the Louie Gohmert missing but unmissed link -- they are extremely dangerous. The information that they were accessing explosives confirms that which I spoke of in my August 28 essay here, "The Troubles."

It's bad enough when white trash has access to guns. It's far worse when they gain explosives. And it is at the worst point when they have associates, such as a sheriff, on their team. Again, we have witnessed the synergy of these things in the Jim Crow era, the Civil Rights Movement era, and in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. Hateful, dull-witted people can do an extreme amount of damage. They can cause suffering and death within a community.

As I understand it, there is a possibility of more arrests being made on this case alone. Yet this case is in no sense "alone," as it is part of a much larger problem. The fact that this was taking place in a state with a Democratic governor -- and a woman, at that -- gives hint to what we can rationally expect when Joe Biden and Kamal Harris kick Trump and Pence's pale white asses out of Washington, DC.

This weekend, while on facebook, I've noted that a growing number of the rednecks I went to school with are recognizing that Joe Biden is going to win the election. They are unhappy with this reality. As that recognition sinks down into the lower depths of the Trump cult, it will go beyond despair. They will seek to strike out at the civil society.

I am reminded of Malcolm X's historic speech, "The Ballot or the Bullet," from April, 1963. In this instance, we will win by way of the ballot, and the brain-dead thugs will likely respond with the bullet. Yet Malcolm also taught that in the jungle, there are not only hunters, but those who hunt the hunters. In the past week, we saw that Michigan's state police and the FBI hunting the hunters. This is a good thing.

At the same time, with this dip-shit sheriff, we do recognize that "bad policing" isn't simply a case of a few bad apples. Since you can tell a tree by its fruit, it is clear that we must remove the poison trees from the orchard of society. And that specfically means the friends, associates of, and members the terrorist white nationalist groups that have become employed in law enforcement. Just as this is something that could never happen under a Trump administration, with its white nationalist members (including Trump), it can and must start happening in 2021.

Be awake, Be alert. Stay safe. And vote.
H2O Man

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Bad Apple Trees (Original Post) H2O Man Oct 2020 OP
K and R..Thanks for posting, Your words repeated: "Be awake,Be Alert, Stay Safe & Vote." Stuart G Oct 2020 #1
Thank you, Stuart G. H2O Man Oct 2020 #29
Excellent observations as always! n/t Liberal Jesus Freak Oct 2020 #2
Thanks! H2O Man Oct 2020 #30
Well said. Thanks. (nt) Paladin Oct 2020 #3
Thank you! H2O Man Oct 2020 #31
It Is My Contention That... Me. Oct 2020 #4
So many of my H2O Man Oct 2020 #32
I Agree Me. Oct 2020 #38
is 'gaggle of turds' the accepted collective noun? i like it. ihas2stinkyfeet Oct 2020 #5
Sociopathy I_UndergroundPanther Oct 2020 #7
yup. ihas2stinkyfeet Oct 2020 #8
I'd like to see I_UndergroundPanther Oct 2020 #9
that's a great idea. ihas2stinkyfeet Oct 2020 #10
Great point. H2O Man Oct 2020 #34
Thanks H2O I_UndergroundPanther Oct 2020 #39
Yes. H2O Man Oct 2020 #33
I don't recognize my country anymore coeur_de_lion Oct 2020 #6
I think the US is largely the same country. The media and the internet have distorted opinions erronis Oct 2020 #18
Interesting. H2O Man Oct 2020 #36
Less than a month H2O Man Oct 2020 #35
I can deal with the toxic waste left behind coeur_de_lion Oct 2020 #42
KnR and thanks Hekate Oct 2020 #11
Fantastic description - "gaggle of turds!" colorado_ufo Oct 2020 #12
Why choose Whtmer? Why not DeSwine? blueinredohio Oct 2020 #13
I suspect they may have - but that Jabba-the-Barr warned him sandensea Oct 2020 #16
The FBI coeur_de_lion Oct 2020 #43
+1 sandensea Oct 2020 #44
I hope when Kamala Harris has her run at the presidency colorado_ufo Oct 2020 #14
Great post my brother malaise Oct 2020 #15
Another great OP and one minor grammatical error. grantcart Oct 2020 #17
LoL! burrowowl Oct 2020 #19
ROFL malaise Oct 2020 #27
KnR. nt iluvtennis Oct 2020 #20
Part of the "pride" of these "boys" is that they are outlaws. Old fashioned western outlaws. erronis Oct 2020 #21
K&R Excellent posting. alwaysinasnit Oct 2020 #22
Well done, H2O Man, once again PWPippinesq Oct 2020 #23
Thank you for this. Nevilledog Oct 2020 #24
❣️❣️ Already voted live love laugh Oct 2020 #25
There is a disturbing trend in rural red America Thunderbeast Oct 2020 #26
NRA babies. moondust Oct 2020 #28
Superb post, my dear H20 Man! CaliforniaPeggy Oct 2020 #37
If this follows the pattern of the past peggysue2 Oct 2020 #40
⭐️⭐️⭐️K&R ⭐️⭐️⭐️ spanone Oct 2020 #41

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
29. Thank you, Stuart G.
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 06:46 PM
Oct 2020

It really bothers me to see those thugs seeking to harm Gretchen Whitmer. Cowardly pups. Malcolm used to point out how cowardly they were -- always attacking as a group, out of the darkness, often wearing masks to hide their identity. Yet cowards can be dangerous, especially in groups.


(35,454 posts)
4. It Is My Contention That...
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 02:37 PM
Oct 2020

Last edited Sun Oct 11, 2020, 04:02 PM - Edit history (1)

While we have had these especially hateful groups since the time of the Civil War, ever since word began to seep out that whites were steadily losing their majority it has been amped up. THe fear is so desperate that violence is their only seeming response.

As to policing as a side note...the police in NYC are scared to death apparently. THe closest station is a block away from me and they have put up barricades on the sidewalk and at times access to the street itself has been blocked off so cars coulldn't even drive the street. It has gotten so bad that the City Council president is suing them because their actions are against the city charter. And last week, about 50 deliverymen stood in front of the precinct quietly and basically just stared. THey need help because their deliveries are being stolen and the police are doing nothing and they want the cops to do their jobs. Further, there has been so much noise from helicopters over head that a petition has been making the rounds. The other day from 4am to 8am they circled round and round, as an example, waking people and keeping them up with the noise.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
32. So many of my
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 06:51 PM
Oct 2020

Last edited Mon Oct 12, 2020, 12:15 PM - Edit history (1)

friends say that this isn't the country they grew up in. (In my case, it is more accurate to say "the country I have aged in." ) The election won't be a return to the normal we once knew, and too often took for granted. But it will be a giant leap in the right direction.


(35,454 posts)
38. I Agree
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 07:18 PM
Oct 2020

Though I don't agree about the growing up part, I think your kids have raised you well....



(1,400 posts)
5. is 'gaggle of turds' the accepted collective noun? i like it.
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 02:45 PM
Oct 2020

your mention of the troubles reminds me of an interview on 'fresh air' many years ago w an insider in the ira who wrote a book.
he said the ira was taken over by sociopaths and then sadist.
seems self evident. his tales were harrowing.

i cant wait for the repentant to write their books. perhaps it will finally kill the klan in this country.
a tall order to be sure. but we must keep hope alive.


(12,719 posts)
7. Sociopathy
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 03:28 PM
Oct 2020

And narcissism needs to not be part of society or our culture or our lives.

Dark triads are incurable.
They don't change and have no desire to.

Sociopathy that is found in government or other places of power must be stopped and those sociopaths cast out.

Lay people need to learn what dark triad people are.
How to recognize them and protect themselves and thier freinds and families from them..

Than they won't treat them as normal people,because the dark triads aren't normal,or safe to allow into power or into our lives.

Reject sociopathy and narcissism.

Drive sociopathy out until they are made powerless
And unable to harm others. There are more people with empathy than there are dark triads.

The republican party is the dark triad party.it needs to go to the dustbin of history and stay there. Thier beliefs and ideals seen as the criminal,selfish evil things they are. Hold them accountable for every anti social thing they do from telling lies,abusing others,financial crimes and more.



(1,400 posts)
8. yup.
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 03:35 PM
Oct 2020

if there is anything good to come out of the last 4 years it is the education a lot of us are getting into just how wrong the human brain can get.


(12,719 posts)
9. I'd like to see
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 03:39 PM
Oct 2020

Short public service announcements ,on tv between commercials that teach people about dark triad behaviors and how to detect them,what to do to get them out of your life and why. Have the shorts offer more resources available on line.

Dark triads need to be explained so people understand the danger these assholes are.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
34. Great point.
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 07:02 PM
Oct 2020

Thank you for this, for it is essential. Our system too often rewards sociopathic behaviors .....in industry, in the legal system, and even is school/college administration. And that is a huge problem.

Your post is the single most important that I've read on this forum in some time. I again thank you.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
33. Yes.
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 06:58 PM
Oct 2020

It is the official definition, I think.

Per the IRA: what you say here is exactly right. That is often the case in groups that engage in violence, no matter how justified they may believe they are. It is a dynamic that has been true in numerous places around the globe in the past 50 years, and no doubt longer.

I'm not confident that racial hatreds can be fully removed from our society. But I am 100% sure that we can incarcerate those who not only hold those toxic beliefs, but who act upon them.


(3,745 posts)
6. I don't recognize my country anymore
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 02:47 PM
Oct 2020

I'm glad these guys were caught because it sends a message to any others thinking of violence.

It should be obvious to anyone that 45 is seriously mentally ill, and he's attracting more like himself.

He's so toxic that his toxicity is spreading. And it's scary.


(15,988 posts)
18. I think the US is largely the same country. The media and the internet have distorted opinions
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 04:43 PM
Oct 2020

and most people get their "news" from places like fox and facebuck.

And it's so cheap for external actors to nudge opinions.

Not like back in the good old days when they had to publish real articles on paper and have it distributed the next day to their doorstep.

And not like back then when we had real editors. And rags that weren't all for the eyeball count/advertising revenue.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
36. Interesting.
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 07:12 PM
Oct 2020

I agree with you. I know when I leave my property, and make one of my ventures in society to do things like shopping, the majority of the people that I encounter seem decent. Those with confederate flags and/or Trump signs on their lawns, automobiles, or person are a minority. Yet they believe Trump has given them license to behave in a more aggressive manner. And I've noticed that even normally decent people have a shorter fuse these days.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
35. Less than a month
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 07:08 PM
Oct 2020

until the elections. After that, the real work begins.

I have some experience, you know, in addressing the damage that toxic industrial waste dumps cause for communities. Even participated in the first federal court case involving the EPA's MSW policy. Getting the industries to stop dumping was hard, no matter if that dumping was legal or illegal. But it is even more difficult to clean up the mess they make.


(3,745 posts)
42. I can deal with the toxic waste left behind
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 07:58 PM
Oct 2020

much better than dealing with the toxicity and chaos while it's happening.

We just have to win definitively first.


(92,556 posts)
11. KnR and thanks
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 03:54 PM
Oct 2020

I, too, have thought of The Troubles. And like another poster, I, too, find it hard to recognize my country any more.


(22,252 posts)
16. I suspect they may have - but that Jabba-the-Barr warned him
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 04:28 PM
Oct 2020

Unlike Whitmer, whom he deliberately chose to keep in the dark (thank goodness the FBI can still act independently of Barr).


(3,745 posts)
43. The FBI
Mon Oct 12, 2020, 08:37 AM
Oct 2020

Thankfully still has leadership with a conscience. Barr has probably stopped many of their investigations but not this one.


(22,252 posts)
44. +1
Mon Oct 12, 2020, 01:53 PM
Oct 2020

The old "deep state" Orange Amin hates so much - because it won't give him the autocracy he feels he was born to have.


(5,814 posts)
14. I hope when Kamala Harris has her run at the presidency
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 04:14 PM
Oct 2020

following her VP slot, that she will ask the extraordinarily brave and competent Gov. Whitmire to be her running mate.


(53,061 posts)
17. Another great OP and one minor grammatical error.
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 04:39 PM
Oct 2020

The collective noun for turds is not a "gaggle" but a "steam".

Should read "The steam of turds that were planning . . "

I only mention it because it could be on the midterm and I would hate for any of your students to get an unenforced demerit.


(15,988 posts)
21. Part of the "pride" of these "boys" is that they are outlaws. Old fashioned western outlaws.
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 04:53 PM
Oct 2020

Renegades, rebels, blood brothers, clan members, on-the-run, rough-and-ready patriots.

Of course they are all happy swillers at the spigot of government largess such as Medicaid/Medicare, federal road/communication/air/etc. systems, national security, armed-forces benefits, national parks. I hate to mention things like clean air and water. They don't think they need that.

The first time one of these wimpy boys needs a social service provided by this country, they'll demand it. But they won't admit it.


(3,459 posts)
26. There is a disturbing trend in rural red America
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 05:24 PM
Oct 2020

Many county sheriffs are self-described "Oath Keepers". They publicly defy laws that they do not agree with, and justify it with flawed Constitutional logic that allows them to claim sovereignty.

In Oregon, county sheriffs openly defy enforcement of gun laws. When the Bundy clowns took over the Malheur Wildlife Reserve, they had the support of the sherrif in a neighboring county.

The bonding of militia groups to sworn law enforcement is a dangerous alliance.


(150,739 posts)
37. Superb post, my dear H20 Man!
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 07:18 PM
Oct 2020

Your posts are always so on target and they illuminate something troubling for me.

I greatly appreciate what you do.

Thank you!


(11,122 posts)
40. If this follows the pattern of the past
Sun Oct 11, 2020, 07:35 PM
Oct 2020

Then we need to remember that in the glory days of the KKK, it wasn't just the yahoos, the good ole boys and/or redneck peckers involved in the savagery and hatred. The professional class participated as well: doctors, lawyers, judges, law enforcement, often holding leadership positions, funding the movement, sometimes participating (as long as they couldn't be identified).

I'd like to think that ridiculous sheriff, betraying his oath, indicating that citizens' arrests are lawful, is a one-off. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there's anything in the law that allows kidnapping, kangaroo courts and possible execution of public officials we disagree with. However, I'm guessing there are more sympathizers hiding in the 'bad apple' grove. They need to be rooted out, exposed and charged when crimes are committed.We need to do what President Grant did and bear down hard on anyone and everyone who would take the law into their own hands.

Vigilantes are not heroes. They're criminals.

I'm anticipating a lot of ugliness between the election and inauguration, after which the boom needs to come down hard on these domestic terrorists regardless of who they are or what titles they may or may not hold. And we need a real live Justice Department working the problem along with our other enforcement agencies.

If the Republicans howl, start the whole whataboutism screech? We ignore them and get the job done.

Because enough is enough!

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