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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFormer IBM CEO says employers should stop hiring based on college degrees and focus on this instead
First, “value someone’s propensity to learn more than their skills,” Rometty said. Focusing on someone’s ability to learn, rather than what they’ve already learned, has “completely changed” how she looks at hiring.
“Now, I want someone to be curious,” she said, “and you can test that when you hire.”
Next, she believes companies should offer their employees an AI-driven learning system. She likens it to a “Netflix for learning” type of platform. A company can provide workers with a few starter courses in skills they need training for. Based on their performance, as well as their interests and goals as a worker, the platform would serve them with additional courses tailored to their career path with the company.
Finally, Rometty said, employers must be transparent about the skills they really need from their workers and guide them to either learn them, refine them, or steer their career path in a new direction depending on their goals within the company.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/02/former-ibm-ceo-ginni-rometty-hiring-based-on-skills-over-degree.html
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Iris
(15,653 posts)
ret5hd
(20,491 posts)Iris
(15,653 posts)Thank the gods.
ret5hd
(20,491 posts)does trumps degree show?
W, for example, has at least one degree. He's also the least curious person in modern politics. He quite certainly didn't have a propensity to learn.
A lot of tech companies have been doing this for years. Experience means much more than a degree, particularly when they're looking for a specific set of skills.
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)My undergrad degree is in Math and Physics - there was no degree (and few classes) in computer science at the time I graduated. At least half of my peers with one or both of the same degrees went into tech. It moved away for a while, but has now moved back to experience/ability to learn rather htan degrees.
if it is a STEM type of degree or not.
i got a degree in psychology which i think is worthless (at B.S level), just to get a job at a big bank as a sys admin in the IT dept.
Iris
(15,653 posts)or psychology.
The whole point is learning how to learn and if someone does college right, they achieve that.
back then you really need a master degree to get anywhere, a B.S is dime a dozen and so easy to get. i feel ashamed that i can get B's sleeping thru half of the class.
Volaris
(10,270 posts)Because I still haven't finished mine yet!
Is it about not having to work more than full time, and only doing that?
Is it something else?
Tell me =)!
Yeah, I started later in life, and then it still took a few years to figure out WHAT I should be taking all the damn undergrad classes for (what degree I should be applying all that work to),
I also can sleep through most classes if need be and still pull acceptable grades. I've picked up valuable and applicable work skills along the way that will make me better at the work i want to do (i think, anyway), but till it's done and hanging on the wall, I'm still not making the kind of money i need to be..
i graduate from vcu, from 90's, the highlights that i remember the most was when Gorbachev came for a speech and the entire 'commons' building was full of people.
for my class, you have your core psychology classes you need, i remember you need a statistic class, that was very easy for me because i was really good with math, stat is so easy compare to calculous. all the social line of psych is very easy. like interpersonal relationship, social psychology, and human sexuality(a very popular class that everyone shows up for, even non students to watch porn) i'm serious here.
physiological psychology was difficult, so avoid something like that , biological terms and chemical interactions in the brain was pretty difficult for me there, made me feel like i was premed. experimental methods are along the same line.
for electives, most of the classes that sounds easy are, but avoid 'greek mythology', i thought that was an easy A, until i was bombard with 1000's of minor god names to memorize.
i enjoyed information technology elective, but don't take programming class unless you were into that and have previous experience (even visual basic will do)
good times, the social aspect of being at vcu was priceless.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)wanted to pursue). You were a bit suspect if you hadn't gotten at least the B.A. So I did it but then found out now it was considered "preferable" to have an advanced degree. So I slogged back for that. And it turned out beautifully! I LOVED grad school and was sorry when it was over. It was so much more rewarding than that slog to the BA.
Then I retired, just a few years later. Couldn't take the pressure any more and besides, I could then pick up my Social Security with better benefits. I signed up for my husband's health coverage and life was good.
Amishman
(5,557 posts)As it usually tells you the person can do certain kinds of thinking.
I work in software development, and have had many contact jobs as the project manager. I've interviewed a lot of people for positions, and we get a lot of self taught people without comp sci degrees.
Those with STEM degrees tend to be a much better it. A mechanical engineer or an economist has a pretty good analytical mind - which is essential in my work. While there have been exceptions, those with non-STEM degrees mostly can't cut it. (One of the exceptions was a guy with a music composition background who proved to be exceptional at workflows and process optimization).
One of the curve balls I throw mid interview is asking them to do a semi-difficult multiplication problem like 'what is 43 multiplied by 47?'. The test isn't math skills, it's situational analysis. Why would I want to know if they can do mental math for a QA analyst job? If they ask if they can use their phone, or just do it quick on paper, it's a good result. If they lock up and panic (which happens a LOT) or struggle and try do it in their head, it's not a good result. I get more of the latter from people with non-STEM backgrounds.
ret5hd
(20,491 posts)The reason I ask is I saw your hypothetical, looked for a sec and thought “about 2000”, used the calculator and it said 2021, and I thought “man, that’s pretty close”...so just wondering, when can I start?
Amishman
(5,557 posts)I was interviewing him for a DBA position. We offered him the job (he was an excellent candidate all around) but he didn't accept.
Never had the off the cuff close estimate like you mentioned. I'd have considered it a positive response, shows levelheadedness and practicality.
ret5hd
(20,491 posts)I am available immediately, but am leaving for an extended camping trip soon.
I have a terrible work ethic...unless the project interests me.
I’m a team player, as long as the team agrees with me.
Money is unimportant, except it is.
See you Monday then???
Amishman
(5,557 posts)With young kids, I couldn't have anything close to work life balance while wearing the PM hat and just going from one contact job to the next. I found love a bit later than most, and am not letting work come before family. Have a nice analyst job that still pays well enough, but no hiring decisions anymore.
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)
Sympthsical
(9,073 posts)And I know a lot of people with degrees who don’t know much about much. They take courses to get that piece of paper, then promptly forget everything a year later.
On the flip side, I know quite a few very educated people who never finished college.
It depends on the person. The curious and eager to learn don’t necessarily want or need college. We place too much value on that piece of paper. We’ve created a generation of indentured servants because of it.
85% of my degree is useless. I didn’t learn how to think. I learned what to think. My grade depended on pleasing a professor’s viewpoint, not whether or not I made sound, logical points about my thinking. It was the worst.
This is why I think we need to de-emphasize college and bring on trade schools. I’ve seen friends getting six figure jobs after coding boot camps that last 4-6 months. More of that in this economy.
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)People who get college degrees from elite universities get great jobs and then get lazy.
DFW
(54,378 posts)She got her law degree from a “second tier school.” She went on to become the youngest partner in a big international law firm, now working in their Frankfurt office.
The head office in the States regularly sends over recent hires from the USA for training internships. She says the worst ones are the grads from Harvard Law and Yale Law. She said they have bad English, worse German, do sloppy work, and are the last to arrive in the morning and the first to leave in the afternoon. When she has to call them on it, they protest, “but I have a degree from Harvard,” as if that in itself somehow meant they were Barack Obama. Some of them don’t seem to get that the fancy degree means that you have the potential to prove yourself, and not that you are automatically the reincarnation of Clarence Darrow.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Demovictory9
(32,456 posts)Iris
(15,653 posts)bachelor's degree from 25 years ago is sickening.
Credentialing makes more sense to me. Why invest 2-7 years becoming an expert in a very narrow field when you could micro-credential every few years to keep up skills and gain new ones?
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)I’m in engineering mostly large civil projects and find the degree is the base then project experience separates the lions from the sheep
Demovictory9
(32,456 posts)Klaralven
(7,510 posts)Pay raises should be given out on the basis that an employee's performance this year indicates that they will be performing well next year.
Completing an MS or PhD isn't a good indicator.
ProfessorGAC
(65,031 posts)In my case all 4 of my advanced degrees were paid for by the companies for whom I worked. Their safety net there is that if I didn't appear to be high potential and a currently good worker, they save their money by not approving the tuition.
If someone pays for the advanced degree out of pocket, the company is on the hook for nothing, but the level or tier bump (higher pay) is based on two things: 1) Evidence of self-motivation, and; 2) Added knowledge in one specific field benefitting the company at no major immediate course. (Say the worker takes 3 years for the degree. No increase for 3 years, and they didn't pay for the schooling.
It's actually a good investment for the company.
In my case, my first company had a really loose educational exit policy. They believed, sincerely, that very few people would leave, especially if they had advanced education paid for. When I left, the only money I had to pay back was the last term. I only took one class that term. I moved companies for 40% more $, but more because we were moving south so my wife would be closer to her gig. That added 23 miles, each way, to my commute. 24 miles, to 47 each way.
I liked it there but the extra drive was an issue, and then it became a 9 mile commute, for 140% of the pay.
I was an outlier for that company as they paid for 15 graduate classes plus labs, plus dissertation guidance, and I paid for one class. Then the new company covered the fees for the doctoral program, and my work was the basis of my dissertation. Again, I was an outlier.
But, neither company was forced to pay a dime. They already had evidence I was a good investment.
I think what you say is truer of people being hired newly into the company, based heavily on what letters are after their name.
I think that's way more problematic than advancing pay of existing employees based upon furthering one's education.
Piasladic
(1,160 posts)employee's performance- that's it, bottom line.
student success- that's it, bottom line.
Education beyond what is needed- a waste/not valuable
And by the way, my employer got rid of that pay raise for higher ed. years ago.
Demovictory9
(32,456 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)you didn't finish that BA. I found it easier to go back, get the degree and it was much easier.
the only alternative would be to lie and list a degree on your resume.
Greybnk48
(10,168 posts)a lot less! Woo hoo!
ihas2stinkyfeet
(1,400 posts)i have been a medical mystery most of my life. i have yet to meet a doc w a shred of curiosty.
i, however, have figured out a lot about what is wrong w me. had several docs that ended up begrudgingly agreeing w me.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)In my experience dealing with people who claim to know better than all the experts they’ve dealt with in their life, the problem universally is not with the experts.
Often it is best to humor that person and quickly move on to have meaningful encounters with people capable of logical thought processes.
ihas2stinkyfeet
(1,400 posts)they might not have believed me at first, but when the tests roll in, they do.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)I’m sorry that your perception of numerous medical professionals is bad. I hope you are receiving appropriate care from a physician you trust.
Staph
(6,251 posts)The manager that hired me said he was looking for three things:
1) a proven ability to learn, which could be a college degree, though that was not required
2) some degree of scientific or technical knowledge, such as math, statistics or science classes or training
3) an ability to communicate, demonstrated by the multiple interviews that one had to go through
Of course, in those days, IBM hired smart people and then trained them to do the job - 12 to 15 months of training. IBM didn't like to hire computer science majors, as they had to have bad habits broken and IBM-centric knowledge piped into their brains.
By the late 1990s / early 2000s, IBM was hiring business and IT majors, giving them a few weeks of "welcome to IBM" training and throwing them into the deep end of the pool.
It sounds like Ginny Rometty is going back to your mother's/father's IBM. And it's about time!
sinkingfeeling
(51,457 posts)chowder66
(9,068 posts)I didn't finish college due to financial issues.
I was told that my ability to adapt and learn was what made me desirable. There were complaints that some with college degrees had a hard time in shifting and adapting from what they were taught. Some came in with degrees completely different from what they studied and struggled with new responsibilities, some flourished way beyond me.
Could I have been more successful with a degree? Absolutely but that wasn't in the stars for me.
I particularly like her idea of steering people in the direction that best suites the employee and the company. That is what I would do in management when I had an employee that wasn't performing at the level I needed them to. I would always try to place them in a position that they would be best suited for. It worked out most of the time which reduced turnover and saved money in turnover costs.
On Edit: Of course this isn't for specialized fields unless someone has had a lot of experience in said field they are pursuing.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)So I went back, really scared of the math (i was a drama major). I aced it tho by memorizing the test material.
I went on to grad school and loved it so much I wished it hadn't ended. It was in Liberal Studies, which can encompass a number of interesting areas of learning...
Altho I retired within 10 years of getting my degree I still loved it and found that my studies were, as they say, enriching.
Happy Hoosier
(7,308 posts)... when hiring someone to design a processor chip....
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)Even back in the day, it was similar. I interviewed a guy who had designed the barrel shifter of a fairly well known minicomputer CPU.
These days, you mostly license a design from ARM or others.
Happy Hoosier
(7,308 posts)I have an M.S. in systems engineering. Yes, teams are large and include a variety of skill. But you don’t hire earnest, but untrained beginners to your engineering team. IMO, the skills mentioned in the OP make the difference between a run of the mill engineer and a great engineer. But in a technical field, you need technical knowledge, at least for the specifically technical tasks.
betsuni
(25,519 posts)Midnight Writer
(21,762 posts)If you were a learner, but couldn't afford a college degree, you could work for a union certification.
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)
Initech
(100,071 posts)You might want to think about that one there. 
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)No. It's also supposed to be helping them to learn to reason, to communicate, and to become educated citizens.
We need more college, not less.
Poiuyt
(18,123 posts)Yavin4
(35,438 posts)
OAITW r.2.0
(24,468 posts)It essentially was a gateway to graduate school - law, medicine, etc. I think my takeaway from my educational experience was...you never stop learning and that happens every day of your life..
Anyways, if a Liberal Arts Degree is essentially a recognition that one has learned a little bit about a lot of different disciplines....what would a Conservative Arts Degree imply, if such a degree existed? You have learned a lot about nothing?
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)Without them, there are whole categories of information that you can't process and many types of problems that you can't solve.
The representation of information by language and texts and analysis by logic and argumentation are too limited.
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)In fact, I live it. I am currently working towards my second Master's degree because I see the massive technological changes happening in my field that somehow my managers do not see. So, I took my own personal initiative and enrolled in a part time online program to level up my skills to stay ahead of the changes.
If you want to learn, you don't have to enroll in a super expensive school and sit in a classroom. There are tons of online instructions, tutorials, journal articles all available for free.
Quixote1818
(28,934 posts)ended up millionaires. One started out as a truck driver. Both would fall exactly in line with what she is talking about.
Buckeyeblue
(5,499 posts)Degree or no degree. I think those with liberal arts degrees are usually more organized in their approach to figuring things out. But not always.
Johnny2X2X
(19,066 posts)90% of those people go to college.
But I get what he's saying, you can get college grads who just have the piece of paper.
I am an engineer working in a corporate environment, the landscape is changing daily. Our processes are ever evolving and you just learn to roll with it after a while. You stop getting frustrated with them changing something you just figured out, or you don't make it.
And that's what we rely on to compete, having engineers who can assimilate new tools and new processes to make their work better and do it more efficiently.
sinkingfeeling
(51,457 posts)drop out, in 1973. They provided me with over 2100 hours of technical training (with live classrooms) and another 320 hours of management training.
I had been studying to be a veterinarian and hated math, but was hired at age 24.
Jspur
(578 posts)her. I graduated in '06 and still feel my degree was a waste of time granted my student loans are now paid off. If I could do it all over again I wouldn't have gone to school and gone on a completely different track.
