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crimycarny

(1,351 posts)
Wed Sep 9, 2020, 03:36 PM Sep 2020

Regarding blaming Woodward--a reminder of how things were back then


2/3: the WHO chief stated that “there was no need for measures that unnecessarily interfere with international travel and trade”

2/29: US cases around 15. Surgeon General tells Americans masks aren’t necessary.

3/8: Fauci in an interview with CBS said there is no need for people to wear masks

With even the experts downplaying the virus, no one would have listened to the tape if Woodward had played it back then. Trump could have easily spun it to something like “That was simply a theory going around at the time. We’ve since learned more and it’s not as dangerous as we thought.” And the numbers for deaths in young people—BACK THEN—would have backed him up. The number of deaths in the US—AT THAT TIME—would have backed him up. The story would have fizzled.

The New York Times had several articles in Feb and even January that mentioned official information, not given to the public, stating the the virus more dangerous than the Trump administration was saying, no one listened. One could say “well, if Woodward had released the tape maybe they would have. It would have corroborated NY Times.”

No, they wouldn’t have. Not with our experts downplaying it. Not with the small number of cases and deaths at that time. I remember what it was like back then. No one would have listened.

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Regarding blaming Woodward--a reminder of how things were back then (Original Post) crimycarny Sep 2020 OP
Agree! Thekaspervote Sep 2020 #1
The fact that the disease was spread from person to person The Velveteen Ocelot Sep 2020 #2
As late as 3/29 the WHO said the virus wasn't airborne crimycarny Sep 2020 #8
Makes sense. chowder66 Sep 2020 #3
This is an excellent point BannonsLiver Sep 2020 #4
Yep, we gotta get trump the hell out of the WH. brush Sep 2020 #6
Could very well be BannonsLiver Sep 2020 #10
Another timeline point crimycarny Sep 2020 #5
Seems like you forgot there was an extreme shortage of masks needed by healthcare staff. we can do it Sep 2020 #7
No, I haven't forgotten crimycarny Sep 2020 #9
So correct im a fan of Fauci also but the mask decision was wrong ace3csusm Sep 2020 #12
Me too crimycarny Sep 2020 #13
Thank you for taking the time to post this timeline ace3csusm Sep 2020 #11
No problem crimycarny Sep 2020 #14

The Velveteen Ocelot

(116,551 posts)
2. The fact that the disease was spread from person to person
Wed Sep 9, 2020, 03:43 PM
Sep 2020

via breathing, coughing, etc., was public information. But it's also true that because there were few cases in the US in February it would have been easy then for Trump and his stooges to downplay its severity even if Woodward had released the tape at the time. They'd have tried to discredit Woodward and characterize the tape as either falsified or taken out of context. The remarks that the GOPers have made today make it abundantly clear what would have happened if Woodward had disclosed the tape in February. They are doing exactly what they would have done then: downplaying it, claiming Trump didn't mean what he said, saying it was out of context. We need to stop busting on Woodward and instead place the blame where it belongs.

crimycarny

(1,351 posts)
8. As late as 3/29 the WHO said the virus wasn't airborne
Wed Sep 9, 2020, 03:59 PM
Sep 2020

Now we know differently of course. By “airborne” they probably mean aerosolized, but most people don’t understand the difference between droplets and aerosolized.

Yep, I agree with you, I put the full blame on Trump. And I think it’s better Woodward came out with it now, when Trump is already on the ropes due to the Atlantic article. If I honestly thought Woodward exposing the tape much earlier would have saved lives, I’d be pissed. But I know it wouldn’t have mattered at the time. I say he’s saving lives now by putting another nail in Trump’s re-election chances.

chowder66

(9,212 posts)
3. Makes sense.
Wed Sep 9, 2020, 03:44 PM
Sep 2020

I was pissed about him sitting on it but even if you're wrong it's a waste of time to be mad at Woodward at this moment.

The anger needs to be focused on the Murderer in Chief and those that enabled him.

BannonsLiver

(16,675 posts)
4. This is an excellent point
Wed Sep 9, 2020, 03:46 PM
Sep 2020

With the avalanche of news literally breaking by the minute it might have caused a ripple for a few hours. Nothing more. At least now it’s just one more brick in the wall toward getting this fuck out of the WH.


And no, before anyone brings it up, I don’t give a fuck about what his cult supporters think. They’re not the only people voting in this election.

brush

(54,504 posts)
6. Yep, we gotta get trump the hell out of the WH.
Wed Sep 9, 2020, 03:54 PM
Sep 2020

Woodward's revelations IMO have just cost him the election. He let tens of thousands die without saying a word for six weeks.

BannonsLiver

(16,675 posts)
10. Could very well be
Wed Sep 9, 2020, 04:14 PM
Sep 2020

And at the very least it bleeds another week off the clock. That’s time he desperately needs. Also, Woodward will be doing a 60 Minutes interview Sunday night which will be flogged endlessly by CBS during their NFL broadcasts. The book comes out Tuesday. All of that basically ensures this is what will be talked about for a solid 5-6 days.

we can do it

(12,254 posts)
7. Seems like you forgot there was an extreme shortage of masks needed by healthcare staff.
Wed Sep 9, 2020, 03:58 PM
Sep 2020

So let’s cut the trashing of Fauci right here.
Fucking drump LIED so he’d have a better chance in the election.

crimycarny

(1,351 posts)
9. No, I haven't forgotten
Wed Sep 9, 2020, 04:08 PM
Sep 2020

Stating Fauci made the wrong decision in not being honest about masks is not “trashing” him, it’s stating a fact. Fauci did some things right, but he got this one wrong. Even Fauci said he regrets that advice.

In respect to Fauci trying to protect healthcare workers, they are the general public too. How many healthcare workers might have been more casual about masks during that time because of what Fauci said?

Same “well-meaning” advice from CDC in early days of AIDS crisis that there is no evidence AIDS is transferred via transfusions, despite them knowing it was. Thinking at the time was the risk was so low that it was in better for the public to not create a blood shortage. Well, that didn’t turn out well did it?

I expect the truth from scientists. It’s not just a matter of saving lives, it’s also important for credibility.


Nope, that was the wrong decision by Fauci.

ace3csusm

(969 posts)
12. So correct im a fan of Fauci also but the mask decision was wrong
Wed Sep 9, 2020, 04:26 PM
Sep 2020

i get trying to save mask for hospitals works but then they should have said it that way and recommend the cloth mask or face covering. I didnt buy it an luckily had mask already available i did buy gloves though.

crimycarny

(1,351 posts)
13. Me too
Wed Sep 9, 2020, 04:47 PM
Sep 2020

When I heard Fauci downplay masks I told my husband at the time that I thought he was downplaying it to make sure there are enough masks for healthcare workers. We wore masks to be safe at that time because I didn’t believe Fauci.

I understand what Fauci was trying to do was well meaning, but that doesn’t mean he was right. You can relay that information in a way that doesn’t panic people. Tell them it’s just like covering your mouth when you cough. It’s just an extra precaution and N95 aren’t needed unless you are a healthcare worker who has to be up close (can’t social distance) and for hours at a time.

Finally, I don’t quite understand the logic of saying Woodward should have exposed the tape back then to save lives but Fauci was right to downplay it so as to not cause panic and make sure there was enough PPE for healthcare workers. If it’s true that Woodward’s release of that tape early on would have saved lives because it would have woken people up to how deadly the disease is—wouldn’t that be more likely to create a panic and cause people to hoard masks? You can’t have it both ways.

crimycarny

(1,351 posts)
14. No problem
Wed Sep 9, 2020, 05:01 PM
Sep 2020

I get why people’s initial reaction to Woodward waiting until now seems an unconscionable act on Woodward’s part, but that is based on what we know NOW. Things were different back then.

The reason I don’t give Fauci the same pass—for the mask advice (I am still a fan of Fauci overall)—is he knew better. His years of experience should have given him better judgement on this issue. BUT, the main reason he had to make a choice in the first place between giving the truth about masks versus downplaying it is because we didn’t have enough PPE. The blame for that sits smack dab on Trump and his administration.

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