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lunatica

(53,410 posts)
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 05:02 PM Aug 2020

After reading Mary Trump's book

His emotional maturity seems to have peaked when was in his Terrible Twos, and he’s been stuck there ever since. When he was two years old his mother gave birth to the last child, a boy, in the family. Not too long after that his 12 or 13 year old oldest sister, Maryanne, found their mother on the bathroom floor hemorrhaging badly.

Old man Fred told his daughter to take care of the kids, five of them including herself, and continued his long days working days without thinking much about the children. Mary, the mother was in bed for a long time so Maryanne took care of the children in the way a mother has to. Mary also suffered ill health throughout her life and was rarely available. Anyone who is a mother will understand that this setup is completely untenable.

So a 13 year old girl was stuck with a two year old toddler, a baby, and her younger brother and sister who at least were all old enough not to need so much attention.

Donald Trump’s most basic emotional needs were never addressed by his parents. This arrested his emotional growth.

There is much more to say about the lack of good attention and the excess of bad attention that Fred Trump gave his children. He was a singularly detrimental person in anyone’s life, and especially in his children’s lives. None of them ever had a chance at having a normal childhood.

Donald Trump’s behavior makes sense when you realize he’s forever stuck emotionally in the worst part of an infants life. The Terrible Twos. For me that makes complete sense. Now that I read about how it happened it’s very obvious to me. It’s made me realize our expectations were based on behavior that has to do with what his abilities should be for a grownup. His behavior is that of a two year old toddler throwing tantrums, severing doll heads off their bodies and breaking toys in fits of rage when thwarted in the least bit. No one helped him grow up and now he’s just a monster. A true product of his father’s own monstrous inhumanity.

I could move on to describe more but it would be too long to post. I just feel Mary Trump nailed it as to what caused what he became on a psychological level and I wanted to share it if anyone is interested.

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After reading Mary Trump's book (Original Post) lunatica Aug 2020 OP
Thanks!!! Well summarized!!! n/t RKP5637 Aug 2020 #1
That was Mary Trump's take mcar Aug 2020 #2
Thanks for the summary. JohnnyLib2 Aug 2020 #3
He's definitely a good case to study for mental problems lunatica Aug 2020 #48
There is a little something to that, but it's absolutely no excuse for the man he is today. His smirkymonkey Aug 2020 #4
He's a bad seed all right. And the fact that he had unlimited money... brush Aug 2020 #6
Yes, the money is another factor as well. I think that is why there are so many horrible smirkymonkey Aug 2020 #10
I agree with you lunatica Aug 2020 #7
I suppose his father's reaction to his behavior also encouraged him. He was actually smirkymonkey Aug 2020 #9
People think that his parents sent him to the military school lunatica Aug 2020 #13
He's been rewarded for evil by his dad, by investors, by Deutsche Bank, by Putin, lagomorph777 Aug 2020 #67
I remember swearing I never wanted I_UndergroundPanther Aug 2020 #46
It sounds like you were quite smart lunatica Aug 2020 #47
This message was self-deleted by its author I_UndergroundPanther Aug 2020 #49
Thanks I_UndergroundPanther Aug 2020 #50
You've become an advocate against bullies lunatica Aug 2020 #52
I live alone with my cat Othello. I_UndergroundPanther Aug 2020 #53
Yes. Just not playing the same ole, same ole anymore. lunatica Aug 2020 #54
Between 6 and 8! JudyM Aug 2020 #68
Agree myccrider Aug 2020 #57
Born bad. Yep. SammyWinstonJack Aug 2020 #65
Right, no excuse. JudyM Aug 2020 #69
Thank you for your kind post, Judy! smirkymonkey Aug 2020 #74
thank you. 100% stopdiggin Aug 2020 #73
Not necessarily an excuse but radical noodle Aug 2020 #75
No sympathy here... 2naSalit Aug 2020 #5
Wow! lunatica Aug 2020 #8
Thanks... 2naSalit Aug 2020 #11
It comes down to free will and choices. lunatica Aug 2020 #15
Yes, 2naSalit Aug 2020 #18
Trump's shitty childhood sort of explains why he turned out to be a shitty person, but The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2020 #12
From what I gather reading the book lunatica Aug 2020 #16
I read somewhere that there was a cook/nanny in the household. Hortensis Aug 2020 #14
Mary Trump doesn't elaborate on whether they had lunatica Aug 2020 #17
Not necessarily. Housekeepers and nannies are often Hortensis Aug 2020 #19
The servants could have come and gone quickly lunatica Aug 2020 #20
Yes. For two weeks when our daughter was 8, I Hortensis Aug 2020 #25
Well, to add to the problem lunatica Aug 2020 #29
Awful. I heard that Donald saw what Freddie was Hortensis Aug 2020 #45
Actually the book does mention a longtime housekeeper who seems to have mostly cleaned. hedda_foil Aug 2020 #64
Ah, thought there must have been one. Not directly Hortensis Aug 2020 #66
Mary does mention a housekeeper that hid in the pantry with a radio, and how Maru Kitteh Aug 2020 #79
With all that money and Fred had to put his daughters in that position. What an asshole. TheBlackAdder Aug 2020 #21
My wife told me about similar events in the book. BlueJac Aug 2020 #22
That was just how the book started lunatica Aug 2020 #24
Trump sounds like he was a feral child. nt SunSeeker Aug 2020 #23
He was pretty predatory towards his younger brother lunatica Aug 2020 #27
I got the impression she got most of her background information ... hedda_foil Aug 2020 #77
Interesting observations, but... jmbar2 Aug 2020 #26
Did the book address why he was sent to military school? ecstatic Aug 2020 #28
Yes. He was an asshole mzmolly Aug 2020 #30
His father could control him. lunatica Aug 2020 #32
Fred mzmolly Aug 2020 #35
Fred didn't have a clue about parenting lunatica Aug 2020 #39
Yep. mzmolly Aug 2020 #42
Yes. lunatica Aug 2020 #31
Thanks for clarifying. I was a little confused by the timeline ecstatic Aug 2020 #55
I often wondered about that too lunatica Aug 2020 #56
Food now, drink now, diaper diaper Historic NY Aug 2020 #33
He was really horrible to his mother lunatica Aug 2020 #36
Another element I found interesting, mzmolly Aug 2020 #34
Another very important thing Fred passed on to Donald lunatica Aug 2020 #37
Good point! mzmolly Aug 2020 #43
While his infancy holds a key it is far from the only influence or flaw in his personality. Ford_Prefect Aug 2020 #38
It's way past time to put a stop to Donald Trump. lunatica Aug 2020 #40
His malignant life has been a major disaster to our country and the world. NNadir Aug 2020 #41
Exactly. mzmolly Aug 2020 #44
I have thought for several years now that he behaves like a three-year old. Looks like I was off a niyad Aug 2020 #51
You were right too lunatica Aug 2020 #62
This message was self-deleted by its author geralmar Aug 2020 #58
Which means that we will all stop expecting any bottom to it lunatica Aug 2020 #60
Drumpf himself says he never changed past 8 yrs old donkeypoofed Aug 2020 #59
He's right about not changing but most people lunatica Aug 2020 #61
Yeah I've seen that too but as he exaggerates so much, it's probably two soothsayer Aug 2020 #78
Many of us grew up in a less than perfect environment. Paper Roses Aug 2020 #63
I don't buy that it was just the neglect, even at a critical age. JHB Aug 2020 #70
It's not just stunted emotional development. Texin Aug 2020 #71
You're correct about all this lunatica Aug 2020 #72
Also that he's been coddled and protected his whole life, including now cp Aug 2020 #76

mcar

(42,334 posts)
2. That was Mary Trump's take
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 05:14 PM
Aug 2020

The book was very well written. I think, however, she underplayed the idea (fact) that IMPOTUS is as much a sociopath as was his late father.

JohnnyLib2

(11,212 posts)
3. Thanks for the summary.
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 05:14 PM
Aug 2020

Many of us have long viewed him as unfit/unsuited for the job, as she does in book and interviews. Her description really sheds light on how that came to be.
As a psychologist, I believe his personality defects will be presented in college psych. texts for many years.

As an aside, I suspect a new classification, based on his case, will eventually show up in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). Narcissism doesn't quite cover it.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
48. He's definitely a good case to study for mental problems
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 09:30 PM
Aug 2020

And there’s going to be tons of documentation and witnesses available to everyone. Videos, tape recordings, witnesses, employees and court records are more than plentiful!

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
4. There is a little something to that, but it's absolutely no excuse for the man he is today. His
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 05:15 PM
Aug 2020

mother's absence at such an age would give him anger and abandonment issues, and his father's cruelty definitely messed him up, but he had every opportunity to get help and grow up.

My mother died in childbirth when I was around the same age as him and my dad couldn't really handle it so I was bounced around between relatives for a while. They said I was very angry and used to pull the fur out of my stuffed animals, but I didn't abuse other kids or animals. My father then remarried a very abusive woman who made my life hell, and I struggled in early adulthood w/ depression, insecurity, anxiety and other issues, but I got help and worked on myself for a long time (I still am) and I was never, ever even a fraction of the sociopath/narcissist/sadist that Donald Trump is/was, even when he was at his best.

So what I am trying to say, is that whatever happened to him as a child is NO EXCUSE for the way he is now. It might clear some things up, but I know people who have gone through much worse and aren't even close to being the disaster that Trump has been his entire adult life.

One of my fears about the book was that it would make people feel sorry for him and excuse his behavior. It influenced him, but I think he was born bad. The man is a monster.

brush

(53,791 posts)
6. He's a bad seed all right. And the fact that he had unlimited money...
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 05:29 PM
Aug 2020

to bully and sue to get his way made him even more uncontrollable. If he had had to work for a living he may have learned how to be somewhat of a human instead of a monster.

He didn't.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
10. Yes, the money is another factor as well. I think that is why there are so many horrible
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 05:54 PM
Aug 2020

rich people out there (of course there are exceptions). They are terrible people because they can be. They get away with it and there are rarely consequences for their behavior. Especially for someone like Trump, who has never had to answer to anybody. Until now, and I really hope he gets what is coming to him!

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
7. I agree with you
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 05:40 PM
Aug 2020

No one stopped him from being a brat and to add to the problem his father encouraged him as he got older and acted out against others. His father saw Freddie, his older son as being weak because he was a nice person, and he saw Donald as being strong for being nasty and a bully. His father liked the way Trump treated others because his father did the same thing, which means that Donald would never get help. In that family the father was in charge of the boys and the mother of the girls. Women had a restricted place and role.

I think you were very brave and determined, and smart to get help. It had to have been very difficult.

In my early life in a dysfunctional family I remember very clearly the moment I swore to myself that I would never be like my parents. I was between six and eight years old. It was a conscious decision, which yours was too. Free will and choice are always available even if you don’t understand it too well as a child.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
9. I suppose his father's reaction to his behavior also encouraged him. He was actually
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 05:50 PM
Aug 2020

rewarded by his father for being an evil, lying, cheating psychopath and he's still trying to please the man even though he has been dead for years, so for him to soften up or try to change his ways would be like rejecting his own father.

Thank you for your kind words! Like most people, I ended up getting help because I was in so much pain I needed someone to help me through it. It took some time, but it was worth it. I am glad you had the foresight at an early age to see that you didn't want to repeat the patterns of your parents and made a conscious decision to take a different path.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
13. People think that his parents sent him to the military school
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 06:00 PM
Aug 2020

because they couldn’t handle him but that not why. Fred Trump got tired of people complaining about Donald’s behavior in school. Fred was on the school board. He just couldn’t be bothered with disciplining Donald. It cut into his building his empire. His idea was that a Freddie Jr and later Donald would carry on his empire.

According to Mary Trump Fred could have straightened Donald up easily with some well placed words. He just didn’t want to be bothered.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
67. He's been rewarded for evil by his dad, by investors, by Deutsche Bank, by Putin,
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 02:28 PM
Aug 2020

by Epstein, Maxwell, Daniels and McDougal, the MAGATs, and by the Russiapublican Party. The bigger problem here is all the people who have enabled him. Any other sociopath would be serving 40-to-life by now.

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,480 posts)
46. I remember swearing I never wanted
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 09:14 PM
Aug 2020

To be like my parents and swearing also to never being kids into this awful world.

I was like 5 or 6.

When I was 15 I told my mom in tears that something was wrong with my head and asked her to take me to a psychiatrist.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
47. It sounds like you were quite smart
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 09:23 PM
Aug 2020

You knew your head was a mess and rather than just go into denial you reached out for someone to fix it. Most people never even get to the level of knowing they have to get help. Their messed up lives are normalized.

Response to lunatica (Reply #47)

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,480 posts)
50. Thanks
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 09:58 PM
Aug 2020

Soon after seeing the psychiatrist I was admitted to the first of many psych units I have found myself in. To this day I don't fuck around when things get weird as in seeing and hearing weird stuff or I get repeating suicidal thoughts that get worse and worse. I know my mental illness has the capacity to fuck me up pretty bad .So when symptoms get really bad I
Get honest about it and call my psydoc. That has kept me away from total desolation and death. However I have gotten pretty close.

And I don't act like an asshole even when it gets really bad, I have swore to myself don't be an asshole unless you absolutely have to because someone is being abusive to me or others around me. I also swore to never be a bystander,because the kids and teachers in school who could have helped me, in a bully abusive situation didn't.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
52. You've become an advocate against bullies
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 11:39 PM
Aug 2020

Our society needs people like you. I too have trouble with any kind of abuse. Many times in my life I’ve jumped in to defend people. I really just can’t abide it. DU is a good place for us.

When I retired I ended up becoming a recluse. It’s so much easier now. I just won’t play the game of normalizing abuse anymore. I’m in better company with just my cat, and having DU saves my sanity and my humanity.

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,480 posts)
53. I live alone with my cat Othello.
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 11:54 PM
Aug 2020

Seems like sometimes when people have decided to be anti bully after facing abuse
They may feel contented alone,and can't tolerate bullshit gaslighting and all the stupid games people play so they live alone.

I know game playing abusive people cause a visceral anger and hate to well up from within.

And yeah I prefer to live alone with a cat. Cats are wonderful beings.cats taught me what real love feels like. For awhile in my life I would have shut that door if not for all the wonderful cats in my life.

Cats saved my life too.

And yes DU is a bastion of sanity.

JudyM

(29,251 posts)
68. Between 6 and 8!
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 02:46 PM
Aug 2020

That is incredibly precocious insight, lunatica. Moments of clarity like that are so liberating, whenever we get them. I meditate to move in that direction.
Sorry for your suffering, glad for your wisdom.

myccrider

(484 posts)
57. Agree
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 01:06 AM
Aug 2020

It’s almost always a blend of nature and nurture.

I read a long time ago that most people who are abused as children do not grow up to be abusers of children, but many, maybe most?, child abusers were abused. Not sure to what extent that applies to psychopathy, though.

ISTM that Trump had the worst genetic inheritance from his father (low natural empathy?), a serious lack of intellectual ability and a rotten family life.

My empathy genes are too worn out by his chaos and criminality to care a lot about his rotten childhood...poor little rich boy.


JudyM

(29,251 posts)
69. Right, no excuse.
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 02:56 PM
Aug 2020

We have conscious choice. Some more conscious that others, but still. In his case, taking care of himself is all that matters. Not a good psych profile for anyone in a position of responsibility, let alone POTUS. It has become devastating that so many are so uninformed. Teachers should be paid more, therapy should be available to everyone, and propaganda shouldn’t be permitted to masquerade as news, that’d be a start.

You’ve gone through a heroic struggle, and your posts here are always thought provoking or otherwise interesting... glad you made it out ok.

stopdiggin

(11,317 posts)
73. thank you. 100%
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 03:16 PM
Aug 2020

people (many people) have gone through terrible situations (and upbringing) -- and have not emerged from it as monsters. Donald Trump bears a great deal (quite likely the lion's share) of responsibility for who Donald Trump is today. Let's try not to forget that.

radical noodle

(8,003 posts)
75. Not necessarily an excuse but
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 03:53 PM
Aug 2020

his father rewarded his awful behavior. I have seen people who grew up in terrible homes with awful parents, but they were rarely rewarded for their misbehavior with millions of dollars.

2naSalit

(86,647 posts)
5. No sympathy here...
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 05:15 PM
Aug 2020

I had to raise three infant/toddlers, all still in diapers, from the age of nine onward, no mother present at all and no funding and a very abusive father.

His issues aren't just borne of nurture... some of it may be hereditary like in my family. Half of us ended up messed up like my father and the rest of us are functional, highly educated adults.

These assholes were wealthy.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
8. Wow!
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 05:43 PM
Aug 2020

You’re amazing. I’m always impressed by your intelligence and your observations. You have been amazing in your life!

2naSalit

(86,647 posts)
11. Thanks...
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 05:56 PM
Aug 2020

Really it all boils down to survival instinct and working with the tools you have.

I had two family members who could have been stand ins for -45, and they were born that way. One's thankfully long gone and the other may not last to the end of the year, and I am not sad about it. The scars will remain on we who have survived, we all go to therapy.

I know that there is at least one generation of people who started out much like I did so I don't feel very special or alone in my coping. It's an American thing far as I can tell.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
15. It comes down to free will and choices.
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 06:03 PM
Aug 2020

No one just stops the cycle of abusive family traditions by accident. It’s the harder road to take. And it’s a conscious choice.

2naSalit

(86,647 posts)
18. Yes,
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 06:14 PM
Aug 2020

However, the abusers never change, they just find new victims. I chose to survive when I realized I couldn't kill myself, I tried but obviously didn't get far in the process because I couldn't decide how to do it. I sure didn't see a future for myself, I still never can see a clear path to anything, guess it's part of the damage done.

So far, I've lived 45 years longer than I thought I would at the time.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,735 posts)
12. Trump's shitty childhood sort of explains why he turned out to be a shitty person, but
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 05:57 PM
Aug 2020

lots of people who have shitty childhoods and abusive or neglectful parents don't turn out to be horrible human beings. They might have some psychological issues to cope with, but they manage not to be evil or criminal or even particularly disagreeable, and instead go on to lead normal, productive and fulfilling lives. Why was little Donald such a bad seed?

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
16. From what I gather reading the book
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 06:06 PM
Aug 2020

is that he was constantly encouraged by his father, the tyrannical ruler of the household. And when he fucked up his father always fixed it. Evidently he considered Donald a true extension of himself. A worthy son to pass his wealth on to.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
14. I read somewhere that there was a cook/nanny in the household.
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 06:00 PM
Aug 2020

Shrug. I don't know who did the heavy housecleaning beyond light picking up, etc, but it sounds unlikely that Mary or Maryanne would have been scrubbing floors and toilets, etc.; in those days significantly more manual labor was involved in keeping house than now. Fred's transportation was a limousine when Trump was a boy, and little Donnie was driven places in it.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
17. Mary Trump doesn't elaborate on whether they had
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 06:09 PM
Aug 2020

servants or nannies, but I’m sure they did. Servants have no say in what the family rules are though. Especially in a tyrannical patriarchy.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
19. Not necessarily. Housekeepers and nannies are often
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 06:26 PM
Aug 2020

important figures in children's lives, especially if the father's gone and the mother's as described most of the time. It's easy to imagine Donnie may have been difficult to manage since quite small, though, so that relationships that might have been close and nurturing in other families would have been much less so. He might have been left gladly amap to his nanny and Maryanne.

Btw, any book that doesn't mention PEOPLE who are part of the household and thus part of their lives, even if, say, replaced relatively frequently, is questionable for the omission.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
20. The servants could have come and gone quickly
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 06:41 PM
Aug 2020

Perhaps none of them stayed long enough to make a difference. Mary Trump did not write about that. Perhaps it was because maybe her side of the family didn’t have servants. I don’t know.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
25. Yes. For two weeks when our daughter was 8, I
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 07:03 PM
Aug 2020

agreed to fill in as an emergency after-school babysitter for a boy with serious attention deficit problems, and god knows what else. Friends had consulted friends until someone agreed to help.

It was extremely trying, much more than I would have guessed. We didn't have internet groups to consult for help in this days, but I dug in and did my ignorant best for him, basically just giving him the constant attention he insisted on from me because I was never able to distract him to play for more than a couple minutes at most. Cuddling didn't work, he couldn't hold still either. Our daughter spent the two weeks at a friend's house with my blessing. His mother begged me to become his permanent sitter, and I felt terrible for her, having experienced just some of her reality, but it was completely out of the question. I felt nothing but relief each day when he finally left and we got our life back again until the next.

With that memory, I find it easy to suspect that, even if Donnie wasn't a fraction as bad, he may well have developed no rewarding relationships with anyone who wasn't specifically hired to care for him. And maybe not any of those.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
29. Well, to add to the problem
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 07:18 PM
Aug 2020

Fred Trump encouraged Donald’s behavior.

Most of us think that all parents teach their children the basics like what is right and wrong and sharing, not being bullies, etc. Fred Trump did no such thing, probably because he himself was a bully. He wanted sons who were predatory which is why he treated his oldest son so badly. Being nice was the last thing Fred wanted in a son. He destroyed Freddie, who was Mary’s father, who drank himself to death at the age of 42.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
45. Awful. I heard that Donald saw what Freddie was
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 09:04 PM
Aug 2020

punished for and a lot of how he learned to please his father came from that.

I was once chatting with a pair of psychologists for Santa Monica who counseled people who were really screwed up and often homeless. I mentioned that my mom had had mental problems and we'd lived on the street a lot, including in Santa Monica, and they started me by immediately saying simultaneously, seemingly out of left field, "But she didn't criticize you, did she"? Huh? But they leaped to that specific assumption because I was in a business suit, working and functional, instead of one of their patients. And the answer, as they expected, was no. She was almost completely lacking in ability to actually raise a child, but she wasn't unkind and was never mean to me.

A pattern of cruelly critical parenting is something they seemingly found in a good many of those who were remained damaged and dysfunctional years into adulthood, and of course Fred and Donald, and probably Mary, seemingly fit that pattern.

Which brings my thoughts around to what's happening in too many homes these days. Time to pull out my novel set in Greece in the 1950s. There are a couple dead people who hadn't left the war behind yet, but they needed killing.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
66. Ah, thought there must have been one. Not directly
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 02:08 PM
Aug 2020

on point, but I once read a housekeeper said that when the grown-up The Donald finished with anything he dropped it on the floor to be picked up. A contemptuous and contemptible attitude, of course, but acted out excessively toward domestic employees.

It does remind me of people I've known whose lives at some point (but not when I knew them ) were spent with great, carefully maintained class differences between their very wealthy families and domestics. One who'd been a child in a pre-revolution Cuban family, but worked with me in insurance, often longed openly for a return to the days when she'd always use 5 towels for her daily bath and drop them on the floor for the servants to take off to be washed. Enough to make me start praising Castro.

"The difference between us is that I have employees and you have servants." ~ Close-to-correct quote of what LBJ said to Bobbie Kennedy when the latter visited him (reluctantly) in TX. This was after Bobbie'd commented on the opinionated servant (LBJ's housekeeper of years) who'd favored him with her thoughts on some current issue while taking him back to LBJ. No doubt he said it genially, but in his world this was odd and inappropriate behavior and she was a "servant."

Maru Kitteh

(28,341 posts)
79. Mary does mention a housekeeper that hid in the pantry with a radio, and how
Wed Aug 5, 2020, 02:35 AM
Aug 2020

they drove her crazy running around the house on rainy days. I can't remember if she named the housekeeper or not.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
27. He was pretty predatory towards his younger brother
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 07:08 PM
Aug 2020

Mary writes that he tormented his younger brother Robert. What I came away with was that he was a terrible bully. Robert doesn’t have a large role in Mary’s book, but I imagine if he wrote what Donald did to him we would be horrified.

I think Mary either didn’t get much information about Robert or she chose not to say much about it. She said enough to explain Donald’s childhood behavior.

hedda_foil

(16,375 posts)
77. I got the impression she got most of her background information ...
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 04:48 PM
Aug 2020

I got the impression she got most of her background information on the Trump kids' childhoods from her father and his childhood and college friends, who were eight years older than Donald, from her mother's recollections of what Fred Jr had told her, and from Maryanne (the eldest) with whom she was quite friendly.

jmbar2

(4,890 posts)
26. Interesting observations, but...
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 07:04 PM
Aug 2020

...I hope that folks won't get the idea that messed up childhoods produce broken, inadequate offspring. A lot of us overcome unfortunate circumstances.

In studies of resilience, Dr. Boyce (see link below) refers to survivors as either dandelions or orchids. Dandelions get blown about by the wind, but always seem to root themselves somewhere and thrive. Orchids thrive, but require fairly ideal conditions. When they are not present, they fail.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/03/04/699979387/is-your-child-an-orchid-or-a-dandelion-unlocking-the-science-of-sensitive-kids

I think Trump's issues are more likely related to inherited wealth, coupled with dysfunctional parents. Wealth enabled him to never face the consequences of his actions and decisions, and to never really have to succeed at anything. Then he attributes his wealth to his own actions - the "self made man" myth that he sold the public. He's never succeeded at anything. His wealth let him think he was superior to all. Once daddy died, no one ever told him otherwise.

i once read the definition of a true friend is someone who will tell you when you're really screwing up. Trump has no true friends.

mzmolly

(50,996 posts)
30. Yes. He was an asshole
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 07:19 PM
Aug 2020

then too. His parents could not control him and sent him off, to be rid of his bullshit.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
32. His father could control him.
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 07:23 PM
Aug 2020

He just didn’t want to take the time to do it. He was busy building his own wealth.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
39. Fred didn't have a clue about parenting
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 07:45 PM
Aug 2020

He just wanted to have a son who would manage his empire. When Freddie failed to fit the part Donald made sure to get his father’s approval by acting like a wealthy predator.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
31. Yes.
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 07:22 PM
Aug 2020

I wrote about it in the OP. People were complaining about Donald’s behavior in school and towards other people and his father simply didn’t want to deal with it so he sent Donald away. He could have easily disciplined Donald, but it was too much bother. Fred Trump was a tyrant and one look or one word from him was enough to make his children tow the line. Donald took too much effort.

ecstatic

(32,712 posts)
55. Thanks for clarifying. I was a little confused by the timeline
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 11:58 PM
Aug 2020

of him being sent to military school but yet being described by Mary as Fred's favorite.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
56. I often wondered about that too
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 12:03 AM
Aug 2020

but I think his father not wanting to be bothered makes sense. It’s not like he seemed to love any of his kids. He was a sociopath, like Mary describes. Everything and everyone were just something to manipulate. It would require too much of his time to take time out from his work to deal with any of his children. Or his wife.

Historic NY

(37,451 posts)
33. Food now, drink now, diaper diaper
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 07:30 PM
Aug 2020

he never has been able to advance much beyond the "Id" stage, See Freud. He resent mother figures because she wasn't there.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
36. He was really horrible to his mother
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 07:36 PM
Aug 2020

He showed nothing but disdain And disrespect towards her all his life. Evidently he kept his two year old anger all the way to the end.

Plus his mother didn’t deal with the boys. Her job was to deal with the girls and the boys were dealt with by the father.

mzmolly

(50,996 posts)
34. Another element I found interesting,
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 07:32 PM
Aug 2020

was Fred Trump's like of Norman Vincent Peale and his passing this 'positive thinking' mindset onto Donald. This could explain some of the gas-lighting and BS assertions such as, COVID will magically disappear?

Fred also passed on his racism to Donald.

Very interesting book. I'm about two thirds through.

Thanks for the discussion!

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
37. Another very important thing Fred passed on to Donald
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 07:40 PM
Aug 2020

was the bowing to rich people who he could use to benefit himself. That’s where Donald gets his adoration of strong men. Putin probably reminds him of his father. He yearns for Putin to save his worthless ass the way his father did.

Ford_Prefect

(7,901 posts)
38. While his infancy holds a key it is far from the only influence or flaw in his personality.
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 07:41 PM
Aug 2020

I am not disposed to grant an adult who specifically refuses to learn any leeway. He is aware that his behavior is harmful to others. He appears to enjoy harming others. As he is now he is a substantial danger to us, to the planet and humanity.

There are means to deal with such dangers. There are answers to bullies that get results. It is far past the time to treat him as anyone but who he really is.

NNadir

(33,525 posts)
41. His malignant life has been a major disaster to our country and the world.
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 08:04 PM
Aug 2020

It doesn't matter why he is an undeveloped child at this point; only that he is; and he needs to be removed from power and made to pay for his crimes.

niyad

(113,348 posts)
51. I have thought for several years now that he behaves like a three-year old. Looks like I was off a
Mon Aug 3, 2020, 10:05 PM
Aug 2020

bit. But, many of us here have consistently referred to him as a toddler. May all the Deities help us.

Response to lunatica (Original post)

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
60. Which means that we will all stop expecting any bottom to it
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 11:22 AM
Aug 2020

Knowing something for certain makes a universe of difference.

donkeypoofed

(2,187 posts)
59. Drumpf himself says he never changed past 8 yrs old
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 01:52 AM
Aug 2020

And that's about right, isn't it? 8 yrs old and spoiled.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
61. He's right about not changing but most people
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 11:26 AM
Aug 2020

have no memory of their Terrible Twos. He probably doesn’t either. The fact is though, that he’s stuck emotionally on the level of a toddler.

Paper Roses

(7,473 posts)
63. Many of us grew up in a less than perfect environment.
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 12:50 PM
Aug 2020

We turned out to be fairly(I hope) normal people. This idiot in the White House has more to account for than bad parenting. He is sick. Maybe part inherited, maybe part environment. Either way, he should not be considered worthy of his position.

So many fell and are still falling for his warped leadership, it scares me. We will not survive 4 more years of this sick man and his equally sick sycophants.

I hope I live long enough to vote against this evil man.

JHB

(37,161 posts)
70. I don't buy that it was just the neglect, even at a critical age.
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 03:02 PM
Aug 2020

That was definitely a contributor, and certainly worked against mitigation, but it wasn't just "nurture" (or lack thereof).

It was "nature" too. Something was wrong with his basic wiring. That boy just ain't right.

Texin

(2,596 posts)
71. It's not just stunted emotional development.
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 03:02 PM
Aug 2020

He received positive attention by emulating his father's abusive, paternalistic and tyrannical behaviors in order to receive attention from him. He witnessed how he treated his older brother, Fred, Jr. with bullying and derision because he had the temerity to pursue his own personal interests. Fred Sr. expected his oldest son to come into the business and was to be groomed in this manner. Freddy wanted to pursue a good higher education and to enter an officer training program, which followed having been in ROTC in high school and he served in the National Guard in his early adult life. Fred Sr. completely disdained this and called it a total waste of time. tRump witnessed how his father was disgusted by not being able to keep Fred under his thumb. Freddy went on to become a pilot in the Guard and later he went on to fly a commercial passenger liner. He managed to actually break away from his family and be his own person, but he was dogged continuously and contemptuously by his father, and he succumbed to the bullying and abandoned his commercial flying to return to the company. It drove him to alcoholic suicide at the age of 44.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
72. You're correct about all this
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 03:13 PM
Aug 2020

Last edited Tue Aug 4, 2020, 04:48 PM - Edit history (1)

But I decided to confine my OP to an observation of Donald’s stunted emotional and psychological maturation. Understanding that about him is strangely liberating I think.

I believe I would have liked Freddie if I knew him. He is the Trump I feel compassion for. He was actually quite liked by his friends and the people who knew him. I’m sorry he had such a painful life. He didn’t deserve that.

cp

(6,636 posts)
76. Also that he's been coddled and protected his whole life, including now
Tue Aug 4, 2020, 04:23 PM
Aug 2020

Mary Trump refers to it as being in controlled envirnoments all his life.
Her book is very well written, 211 pages, riveting and clarifying. I am grateful to her for writing it, and I hope many people read it (even those working in the WH, ha!).

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