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PJMcK

(21,972 posts)
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 08:17 AM Jul 2020

My unfounded theory about Trump's cognitive test

Presented with no evidence but pieced together from various news reports:

Trump did or said something so disturbing that his handlers called in Trump's doctor. The doctor saw something concerning and ordered the Montreal Cognitive Assessment test.

The test is not very long or complicated and it's intended to be completed in 10-15 minutes. By Trump's re-telling of his experience, it appears he took far longer to complete. By the way, here's the website for the test and its developers:

https://www.mocatest.org

Unsurprisingly, Trump couldn't pass the test. Some parts of it eluded him but the doctors and the handlers knew they couldn't tell Trump he was failing. So they coached him through the test and gave him BIG hints for the answers; think of how a parent tries to teach an infant.

The doctors sent Trump back to the White House knowing that he's got a damaged brain. Trump's handlers know he has a damaged brain. Trump's family knows he has a damaged brain. Hell, most of us know he has a damaged brain and we don't need to see his damn test!

Now, imagine that you're one of the medical professionals who witnessed these events. How would you feel about yourself, your job and your country knowing that Trump has a damaged brain?

If I'm even a little bit on the mark, this is really scary stuff.

47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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My unfounded theory about Trump's cognitive test (Original Post) PJMcK Jul 2020 OP
Yes, probably had something like a mini stroke in November Jersey Devil Jul 2020 #1
There's an article in WaPo that says Trump took the test in early 2018-2 1/2 years ago! Lonestarblue Jul 2020 #29
During the interview with the mercuryblues Jul 2020 #31
Even if he is cognitive he's still a dumbass underpants Jul 2020 #2
he's a cognitive dumbass! blakstoneranger Jul 2020 #26
My 2 cents PJMcK Jul 2020 #40
😁 underpants Jul 2020 #45
Dr Ronny Jackson Captain_New_York Jul 2020 #3
Trump can't remember who gave him the test or why. lagomorph777 Jul 2020 #7
CNN ran part of an interview on Fox yesterday. luvtheGWN Jul 2020 #16
Early 2018. Lonestarblue Jul 2020 #30
They probably had him memorize the answers ToxMarz Jul 2020 #39
I think they coached him through the test PJMcK Jul 2020 #41
the answers were inked onto his hands........ jaxexpat Jul 2020 #42
I'm wondering if he's been put on a medication to try to temporarily manage his symptoms Siwsan Jul 2020 #4
Drugs like Namenda and Aricept can help slow it down, but someone Ilsa Jul 2020 #5
They could just tell him it's a Tic Tac Siwsan Jul 2020 #10
Yes. AirmensMom Jul 2020 #6
Well, doctors take an oath Scarsdale Jul 2020 #13
True. AirmensMom Jul 2020 #19
DU Doctors! nt USALiberal Jul 2020 #8
The Trumperer has no brain! KatyMan Jul 2020 #9
He just has an old brain, wasn't that good to start with. He doesn't do any brain exercises to help LiberalArkie Jul 2020 #11
That certainly sounds like a reasonable explanation. NNadir Jul 2020 #12
I'm a retired speech-language pathologist, have probably administered thousands of standardized phylny Jul 2020 #14
In fairness genxlib Jul 2020 #18
The hippie doctor confessed that the patient dictated the report of his own physical exam. Marcuse Jul 2020 #32
DING DING DING! Marcuse, you're our grand prize winner! rocktivity Jul 2020 #43
Right, bone spurs don't go away. Bone spurs get worse Delmette2.0 Jul 2020 #46
Standardized tests are for the masses PJMcK Jul 2020 #21
cognitive tests are different. unblock Jul 2020 #22
In Trump's universe, no law, no ethical considerations, no norms apply. NNadir Jul 2020 #25
Pretty good assessment. Pepsidog Jul 2020 #15
nope. oldsoftie Jul 2020 #17
The American people deserve to know: WHO is running the country? bucolic_frolic Jul 2020 #20
personally, i think it's almost a guarantee that the test showed impairment. the tell is that he's unblock Jul 2020 #23
The list of users for this test Aviation Pro Jul 2020 #24
I too, believe he was coached. leanforward Jul 2020 #27
ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS KEEP HIS MOUTH SHUT blakstoneranger Jul 2020 #28
Good story telling. The elements make sense. Eyeball_Kid Jul 2020 #33
I wouldn't say your theory is unfounded Hiawatha Pete Jul 2020 #34
I don't believe your're "unfounded" to think this. Texin Jul 2020 #35
Yeah. I think the initiating event was he shit his pants and denied that it happened. NCjack Jul 2020 #36
Thank you, thank you! PJMcK Jul 2020 #44
My theory is that he saw the doctor's notes whopis01 Jul 2020 #37
Unless I am totally off the mark, this test would not be... 3catwoman3 Jul 2020 #38
Oh, god... Blue Owl Jul 2020 #47

Jersey Devil

(9,867 posts)
1. Yes, probably had something like a mini stroke in November
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 08:21 AM
Jul 2020

Trump says he took the cognitive test "recently", so my guess is after he was rushed to the hospital in secrecy in November, which they tried to palm off as a continuation of his annual physical. He suffered some kind of episode that would have made the doctors believe a cognitive test was warranted.

Lonestarblue

(9,958 posts)
29. There's an article in WaPo that says Trump took the test in early 2018-2 1/2 years ago!
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 10:04 AM
Jul 2020

I just looked up an incident to check the date: In July of 2017, Trump descended the steps of Air Force One, with his limo at the bottom and the door open, but instead of getting in the car, he wandered aimlessly out on the tarmac until a Secret Service agent brought him back to the car. That was six months before his test, and I don’t remember what else happened after that, but there must have been evidence of cognitive decline. Why else would you take such a test?

Trump is now claiming that the test had 30-35 questions, which it doesn’t. Plus the test is designed to be completed in 10-12 minutes. If it took Trump 20 minutes, that’s a bad sign.

We’ve all seen Trump’s decline (remember statements like the nonsensical reference to having to flush toilets 15 times). I think Biden should agree to take the cognitive assessment from an independent source and then challenge Trump to take the same assessment from that independent source and agree to release the results publicly. The fact that Trump took this test more than two years ago and seems to have had decline then means that his decline may be significantly worse today.

mercuryblues

(14,515 posts)
31. During the interview with the
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 10:14 AM
Jul 2020

Faux news DR, trump said he took it a year ago, or almost a year ago. trump's midnight ride to Walter Reed fits your timeline.

Captain_New_York

(161 posts)
3. Dr Ronny Jackson
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 08:49 AM
Jul 2020

Did I miss hear or did the orange shit said his cognitive test was administered by The former White House physician now running for Congress in Texas!!

luvtheGWN

(1,336 posts)
16. CNN ran part of an interview on Fox yesterday.
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 09:18 AM
Jul 2020

He said Dr. Ronnie Jackson gave him the test, and Jackson hasn't been the WH doc since 2018.

So when exactly was the test administered?

He also kept repeating the 5 words he was asked to remember -- as if this showed his memory is fine. Not. He repeated them by rote, just as someone would repeat the 5 times table.

PJMcK

(21,972 posts)
41. I think they coached him through the test
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 11:18 AM
Jul 2020

They didn't want to have to document that the president has a damaged brain.

Like all things around Trump, hide the evidence.

jaxexpat

(6,763 posts)
42. the answers were inked onto his hands........
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 11:19 AM
Jul 2020

because they wouldn't fit on one hand. Little pictures. He still can't read.

Siwsan

(26,228 posts)
4. I'm wondering if he's been put on a medication to try to temporarily manage his symptoms
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 08:52 AM
Jul 2020

Win or lose, I don't think his enablers much care what happens to him after Nov 3. If they can somewhat stabilize him, for the duration, maybe they think they have a chance for another four years of exploitation/dismantling.

Ilsa

(61,683 posts)
5. Drugs like Namenda and Aricept can help slow it down, but someone
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 08:55 AM
Jul 2020

should be administering it to make certain he doesn't forget to take it.

AirmensMom

(14,636 posts)
6. Yes.
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 08:55 AM
Jul 2020

They don't usually order that test without a suspicion that something is awry. I do know that.

I would also guess that by the time one is ordered, the patient will, almost by definition, have some trouble with it. By then, there have already been enough scary signs. The test likely confirms the suspicions.

How would I feel as the medical professional? Seems to me that as a matter of national security, I'd want to say something. But I'm not there, so I can't say what I would actually do. I'd feel like shit, though.

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
13. Well, doctors take an oath
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 09:10 AM
Jul 2020

"First, do no harm" Don't they see they are harming the entire country, if not the world by passing this clown off as "normal"? Most of us with no medical credentials can recognise dementia creeping on when we see it. No stretch of the imaginmation can hide tRump's floundering. My question is "Who is running the country? Jared? Stephen Miller? Mnuchin?" The entire gop traitors? Or, could it be PUTIN?

AirmensMom

(14,636 posts)
19. True.
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 09:25 AM
Jul 2020

And they can commit anyone deemed to be a danger to him/herself or others. Just not sure what their options are in this case. I’m not a doctor.

LiberalArkie

(15,703 posts)
11. He just has an old brain, wasn't that good to start with. He doesn't do any brain exercises to help
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 09:09 AM
Jul 2020

his memory. I know I could not remember the 5 words the doc gives you to remember a few minutes later. My short term memory has always sucked. Long term is pretty damn good.

Trumps problem is not that he could not remember stuff for the test, his problem has always been that he is a narcissist self-centered habitual liar is just so happens to be a traitor. Not much different that his administration and a lot of those in congress.

NNadir

(33,430 posts)
12. That certainly sounds like a reasonable explanation.
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 09:10 AM
Jul 2020

Whether it's true or not, we cannot say, but it's reasonable.

phylny

(8,363 posts)
14. I'm a retired speech-language pathologist, have probably administered thousands of standardized
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 09:13 AM
Jul 2020

tests in my career. It is unethical for anyone to administer a test in a non-standard fashion unless you specifically note that you did so. For instance, if I had a child who was not able to answer enough questions to meet the basal (base), then I might continue to administer the test in a non-standardized way to get some information. I would not be able to calculate or give a standard score, but I'd have some information to use to write my report. In my report, I would have to write how I administered the test, etc. "James was unable to answer enough questions correctly to calculate a basal" or "James did not sit long enough to participate in testing today."

I would have lost my license and certification if I had "coached" anyone to help them pass a test.

Point being, if this happened, it's amazing the lengths people will go to accommodate him.

genxlib

(5,517 posts)
18. In fairness
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 09:22 AM
Jul 2020

He is speculating about the same doctor that said Trump was 239 pounds and could live to be 200.

Just saying that accuracy and ethics are already suspect.

Marcuse

(7,436 posts)
32. The hippie doctor confessed that the patient dictated the report of his own physical exam.
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 10:15 AM
Jul 2020

The confession comes after goons raided his office and seized the records.

[link:https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/02/607638733/doctor-trump-dictated-letter-attesting-to-his-extraordinary-health|

By the way, if he never had any orthopedic surgery the bone spurs should still be there. They do not miraculously go away.

rocktivity

(44,566 posts)
43. DING DING DING! Marcuse, you're our grand prize winner!
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 11:20 AM
Jul 2020
The...patient dictated the report of his own physical exam.

No doubt about it: the closing sentence is a dead giveaway...if you'll pardon the expression...


rocktivity

Delmette2.0

(4,153 posts)
46. Right, bone spurs don't go away. Bone spurs get worse
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 11:41 AM
Jul 2020

I know, I have them, but they don't impede my walking.

PJMcK

(21,972 posts)
21. Standardized tests are for the masses
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 09:32 AM
Jul 2020

I respect your points about privacy requirements and proper test taking/score recording. These issues are important to protect the patient and maintain the integrity of the test.

The situation with Trump, however, is different. He's the president so all of the normal rules go out the window. His test results would never be made public as we've seen with the false reports about his health.

If something is seriously wrong with Trump, there's no way his handlers would tell us.

unblock

(52,072 posts)
22. cognitive tests are different.
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 09:35 AM
Jul 2020

i can't speak to the protocols of the moca test specifically, but as a former emt, i frequently tested patients for alertness and orientation, which tries to get a some of the same things the moca test does (and in fact, a portion of the moca test is exactly that).

it's not an exact science, for instance, consider orientation to date. the test asks if you know today's date. but what the emergency happened near midnight and they get it on the wrong side? moreover, if the person doesn't have a steady job or school or something else that demands knowing exactly what date it is, people often don't know.

i can't tell you how many times during this pandemic mrs. unblock or mini-unblock have asked by what day of the week it was. they're not cognitively impaired, they're alert and oriented times three just fine, it's just that knowing the exact date or day of the week is simply not an important part of their current lives such that they should know it of the top of their heads.


so as an emt, i often had to prompt or ask a different follow-up question or gauge the response. for instance:

"what? date? um, i was married on a sunday in 1956, it was a beautiful spring day!" -- not alert and oriented to date

"what's the date? what's that got to do with the pain in my chest? i don't know! i got a package on monday, that was 2 or 3 days ago, so maybe it's thursday. or wednesday. who gives a crap! i'm retired! just get me in the truck and drive me to the hospital!" -- alert and oriented to date, even if it's saturday.

i'd be surprised if the moca test protocol didn't provide for some degree of prompting.


as for the ethics involved, we'll probably never know what the doctors wrote on his test results or what they informed donnie, his handlers, and his family. i'd assume they did their job ethically, but were then barred from telling the public the truth (well privacy laws do this anyway).


NNadir

(33,430 posts)
25. In Trump's universe, no law, no ethical considerations, no norms apply.
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 09:46 AM
Jul 2020

The whole thing is beginning to look a lot like the Movie "Dave."

Barr is probably running the country, and Barr is a fascist who needs to die in prison and I predict he will.

bucolic_frolic

(42,931 posts)
20. The American people deserve to know: WHO is running the country?
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 09:28 AM
Jul 2020

Pence? Miller? Mnuchin? Kudlow? Ross?

Trump is just out of it.

unblock

(52,072 posts)
23. personally, i think it's almost a guarantee that the test showed impairment. the tell is that he's
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 09:41 AM
Jul 2020

boasting about the test at all.

if he wasn't impaired and he passed the test, it would be a non-event and neither he nor anyone else would be talking about it.

the fact that he's talking about it and gloating about passing it and trying, in his own pathetic way, to puff himself up and make him look like a genius for passing the test is surely because he *didn't* pass it, and that triggered his need to lie about it.


unfortunately for donnie, he's such a terrible liar, that he doesn't realize that when he says it was a very hard test, that makes it worse for him. he's trying to say it's a hard test so him passing it proves he's a genius, but the rest of us understand that him finding it hard only means (even if we take him at his word) that he was very borderline on passing.

Aviation Pro

(12,090 posts)
24. The list of users for this test
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 09:44 AM
Jul 2020
1. Nurses
2. Speech / Language Therapists
3. Occupational Therapists
4. Neurologists
5. Psychologists
6. Geriatricians
7. Family Practice Physicians


Does this scream, "stable genius," to anyone?
 

blakstoneranger

(333 posts)
28. ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS KEEP HIS MOUTH SHUT
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 09:59 AM
Jul 2020

However since he included biden on this I have another theory. Somehow trump got word that biden took a cognative test and failed it. So now he wants to challenge biden. Why else would he keep talking about this when nobody cares. He's old, crazy, and lacks good judgement.

I WOULDN'T CARE IF BIDEN SAT AROUND NAKED EATING HIS OWN FECES, HE WILL STILL BE A MUCH BETTER PRESIDENT THAN TRUMP.

TRUMP CAN PASS ALL THE TESTS YOU GIVE HIM, IT DOESN'T MATTER, IT'S WHAT WE SEE IN HIM AS THE PRESIDENT: A DISHONEST, UNTRUSTWORTHY MAN WHO SHOWS POOR JUDGEMENT IN THE EXECUTION OF HIS DUTIES. WHEN IT COMES TO POOR JUDGEMENT, YOU CAN FIND DOZENS OF EXAMPLES (PORTLAND, UKRAINE, RUSSIA, CHARLOTTESVILLE, PARDONING SCUMBAGS, INTERFERING IN MILITARY TRIBUNALS TO RELEASE NAVY CRIMINAL BECAUSE "HE LIKES ME&quot

Eyeball_Kid

(7,428 posts)
33. Good story telling. The elements make sense.
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 10:22 AM
Jul 2020

Of course we don't know for sure, but we DO know that what you describe is generally how things and people operate. We do know that something happened when he got sent to Walter Reed. When he was getting in the car, he was holding something in, I believe, his left hand. He seemed to be clutching onto something. It might have been a hanky or a tissue paper. He might have been drooling.

Hiawatha Pete

(1,793 posts)
34. I wouldn't say your theory is unfounded
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 10:26 AM
Jul 2020

At the very least, there is extremely strong circumstantial evidence to support it.

Texin

(2,587 posts)
35. I don't believe your're "unfounded" to think this.
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 10:34 AM
Jul 2020

He's been demonstrating behaviors and speech patterns that are glaringly obvious to anyone familiar with cognitive decline/disease. There are other physical symptoms (probable balance issues) that lead to this conclusion as well. He's always been bombastic (and it's only progressed since then), but now he's blasting out things that are so off the chain that, if he were one of my parents, I'd be doing everything in my power to get them diagnosed and treated - to the extent medical treatment exists to do so (which isn't much). BTW, I had two parents (both well into their eighties by then) who started exhibiting such symptoms of dementia and both of them eventually had to be institutionalized. The nightmare is when a younger person who is relatively healthy from a physical standpoint begins to develop alarming cognitive decline. Unfortunately, our family (my husband's cousin) is in that situation now. She lives in Florida and there are no relatives there any longer. Her daughter is struggling (from here in Texas) with the problem about getting her into a facility where she is not in danger of elopement and possible physical danger from a human predator. In tRump's case, it's like having an out of control toddler who has to be followed around by a parent throughout the day to prevent them from injuring themselves or wreaking havoc. He should not be anywhere near the WH now.

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
36. Yeah. I think the initiating event was he shit his pants and denied that it happened.
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 10:41 AM
Jul 2020

Last edited Thu Jul 23, 2020, 11:42 AM - Edit history (1)

When he was convinced that there was a dumpster load in his paper diaper, he drop his trousers, looked and declared that it was a big, beautiful steamer. That's when he was told that there were cameras and interviewers waiting for him to talk about his Goya bean diet -- over at the WH medical station.

PJMcK

(21,972 posts)
44. Thank you, thank you!
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 11:26 AM
Jul 2020

You made me laugh out loud! The scenario you described gave me an image of Trump in the Oval Office, like I was watching "The West Wing."

Hysterical!

whopis01

(3,482 posts)
37. My theory is that he saw the doctor's notes
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 10:46 AM
Jul 2020

and when he read "This guy is a total ass", Trump thought it said "This guy is a total ace".

3catwoman3

(23,907 posts)
38. Unless I am totally off the mark, this test would not be...
Thu Jul 23, 2020, 10:49 AM
Jul 2020

...administered unless there were concerns.

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