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H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:27 AM Jul 2020


The 4th of July means different things to different people. Here is rural upstate New York, for many it means putting up the flag, cooking out, and getting drunk by mid-afternoon. Thus, by early evening, I could hear my closest neighbors in a heated argument while sitting on their deck, with an American and a Trump flag flying. Nothing says "Patriotism!" more than that.

My 90-year old aunt says our area has the same inbred, brain dead culture as the Deep South. My 92- year old uncle reminds our extended family's younger generation that he and his friends joined the military to fight World War 2 in a battle against the same forces that now infect our country. Fight it now, especially by voting in November, he says, before it becomes even more entrenched.

As I watched my son cooking our meal on the fire pit next to our garden, I kept thinking about my uncle's message. My focus was primarily on what I can do between now and election day. Being of simple mind, I always start with Politics 101 for elections: there are three groups -- those who always support you, those who always oppose you, and the undecided. Usually, you work to firm up the first group, ignore the second, and appeal to the third.

But things are anything and everything but normal.

If a family member is out of control due to substance abuse, the family does an intervention. If a person is posing a threat to themselves or others due to mantal illness, there is a community intervention. The Trump cult poses such an out-of-control threat today that we need a national intervention in November.

This includes in every single contest in November, from local to state to national. We need to maintain -- and hopefully expand -- control of the House of Representatives. We are in a position where we can take control of the Senate. And, most importantly, we can crush Donald Trump in humiliating fashion. While I cannot speak for him, I am confident that is exactly what my uncle is talking about.

How do we invest our energies this summer? In my opinion, it is essential that we get as many people as possible to take the steps necessary to use mail-in ballots. It is obvious that this is the dynamic that the Trump cult fears the most.

The other thing I'm focused on is getting those people who have been protesting in the streets of American cities and towns to be registered and prepared to vote for Joe Biden. Many, perhaps most, are already inclined to do so. But I encounter a significant number of young adults who are to the left of the Democratic Party.

Even in my own extended family, I recently had a young adult say, "Oh, that's right. You used to consider yourself a leftist." I fought the temptation to say, "Kid, you have no idea. In your wildest dreams, you couldn't be associated with the people and things that I was at your age." I kept in mind that it is the duty of younger generations to question their elders, even when they are being obnoxious with their ignorance.

Instead, I focus on the threat the Trump cult poses to the Constitution. When young people talk about the sins of the Founding Fathers, I make it clear that I recognize they were imperfect men, with an imperfect understanding of a just society. Yet that Constitution is what has allowed us to progress -- slowly over the generations -- towards a more perfect society. Yes, we are confronted with very serious internal threats today. There is gross inequity. But the Constitution provides the roadmap towards justice. And a vote for anyone but Joe Biden -- or a failure to vote -- is a betrayal of the Constitution.

I'm curious what others think are the most important things we need to focus on this summer? Thank you.

H2O Man
37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Intervention (Original Post) H2O Man Jul 2020 OP
How are you feeling, my friend? kentuck Jul 2020 #1
I'm up and around today. H2O Man Jul 2020 #2
I agree. kentuck Jul 2020 #4
I've been out H2O Man Jul 2020 #8
Good advice. kentuck Jul 2020 #23
Pandora's Box young_at_heart Jul 2020 #7
I can remember watching H2O Man Jul 2020 #10
Hi from Texas, H2O. 7wo7rees Jul 2020 #3
Oh, thank you! H2O Man Jul 2020 #5
As my Governor Kate Brown (Oregon) said on MSNBC a while back leftieNanner Jul 2020 #6
That's it! H2O Man Jul 2020 #12
We moved here from California in 2009 leftieNanner Jul 2020 #14
My brother H2O Man Jul 2020 #16
⭐️⭐️⭐️K&R ⭐️⭐️⭐️ spanone Jul 2020 #9
Thank you! H2O Man Jul 2020 #11
I believe the country has had enough of this daily insanity. I know I have. spanone Jul 2020 #13
War H2O Man Jul 2020 #15
After talking to my dad's super-conservative friend on Sunday... Initech Jul 2020 #17
Well said! H2O Man Jul 2020 #19
Yeah it's almost like you can instantly tell which side of the fence they fall on anymore. Initech Jul 2020 #21
THIS malaise Jul 2020 #18
Thanks! H2O Man Jul 2020 #20
Good question. PETRUS Jul 2020 #22
I've recently watched a H2O Man Jul 2020 #24
I hope it works for you! PETRUS Jul 2020 #27
I talk to H2O Man Jul 2020 #28
Good to have you back here! Hekate Jul 2020 #25
Thank you! H2O Man Jul 2020 #26
Very interesting post (in general) and the comments from.. electric_blue68 Jul 2020 #29
Well, thank you! H2O Man Jul 2020 #32
Glad your getting your legs back under you. GulfCoast66 Jul 2020 #30
Thanks! H2O Man Jul 2020 #33
I envy your garden. Here in Florida we can't grow much in the summer GulfCoast66 Jul 2020 #36
Welcome back! Generic Brad Jul 2020 #31
Thank you, Brad! H2O Man Jul 2020 #34
Good to see you. Solly Mack Jul 2020 #35
Thank you! H2O Man Jul 2020 #37


(111,667 posts)
1. How are you feeling, my friend?
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:40 AM
Jul 2020

No matter how enlightened people were at different times in our history, they could not change the prevailing culture. The same holds true today. The arc of justice bends very slowly.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
2. I'm up and around today.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:44 AM
Jul 2020

Starting to feel better.

I agree 100% about that arc moving slowly. Last night, I watched a documentary on the last 18 months of Martin Luther King's life. I was thinking about the number of times I've heard people -- including myself -- wishing that he were alive today. Or some leader like him. Yet what is really needed is for us to find that spark within ourselves.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
8. I've been out
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 01:40 PM
Jul 2020

in my garden today. I'm doing a little weeding, but mainly watching my sons doing all types of yard work for me. Hopefully I can get a picture of the stone work in and around the garden to post here. On the outside, my younger son -- the boxer -- has moved stones that 200 years ago were moved by an ox & stone sled into place for the stone walls. Not from ones still standing, of course, but where the stones were used when paving the dirst roads.

My older daughter has times when she thinks she is not doing "enough." I tell her that you have to find balance .....that no one gives it 100% 24/7, or they burn out. Everyone needs to find that which they do best, and do that between now and November. After Joe Biden takes office in January, we begin a new stage of work. No leader can do it all for us. I think that she's seeing that I'm right.


(3,800 posts)
7. Pandora's Box
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:17 AM
Jul 2020

Trump and his enablers have allowed a new level of evil to spread throughout the country!

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
10. I can remember watching
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 01:46 PM
Jul 2020

a movie titled "The Exorcist" years ago, when Nixon was still in office. At the beginning, if my memory serves me well some decades later, a priest in the desert encounters a sign that an old evil is coming to the surface.

When Nixon resigned in utter disgrace, I was convinced we were in the clear. That nothing as malignant as Nixon could possibly become president again. Little did I know about Reagan and Bush.

But I agree with you that we have witnessed a new level of those old evils by way of Trump & Co. There are times when I ask myself how in the heck this came to be.


(5,128 posts)
3. Hi from Texas, H2O.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:45 AM
Jul 2020

Been worried for you. Hoping you are recovered, was it a spider that got you?
I agree with your uncle and I agree with mail in ballots. For whatever reasons the Repubs sure are fighting terribly hard to keep people from doing it. Which has to mean there is something nefarious afoot.
So glad to have you back!!
Take care of yourself dear H2O!!

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
5. Oh, thank you!
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:52 AM
Jul 2020

I've got to have some more tests next week before they can be sure what bit me. Whatever it was, I hope I do not encounter one again!

I've been doing a bit of research on mail-in voting. It's curious that republicans haven't had any problems with it in the past, including when that shit stain on humanity, Donald Trump himself, has used a mail-in ballot. Heck, lots of the military has to use this method. The republicans sound rather unpatriotic when they are opposing the voting method of the military.


(15,369 posts)
6. As my Governor Kate Brown (Oregon) said on MSNBC a while back
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:11 AM
Jul 2020

"You can't hack paper ballots."

For the Republicans? Therein lies the problem.

Glad you are feeling better.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
12. That's it!
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 01:53 PM
Jul 2020

That is exactly it! Hits the nail on the head. You can't hack them. And that's what has them shitting their pants.

My normal brother lives in Oregon. He says that it's not perfect, but that it is the best state that he has ever lived in.


(15,369 posts)
14. We moved here from California in 2009
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 02:00 PM
Jul 2020

It's lovely, but (ahem) not very diverse. By selling our house in the Bay Area, we were able to put our kids through college without any residual debt.

I love the 100% VBM here. We can sit down at the kitchen table with a glass of wine and fill out our ballots. Well, maybe this year, with something stronger!

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
16. My brother
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 02:13 PM
Jul 2020

lived around LA for years. I used to visit him every so often. I'm not big on cities, though he was happy there for years. Eventually, he moved out to the edges of the suburbs, but it was always way built up when I'd visit. Around 2005 he moved to Eugene, which he loves.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
11. Thank you!
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 01:50 PM
Jul 2020

While I make a conscious effort not to get over-confident, I do think that we are getting into very good position for November. I look at the state polling more than the national, and it looks very good to me. Of course, I expect that snake and his ilk to try to steal the election, one way or the other. But, if it comes down to it, I don't think the Supreme Court will do for him what they did for Bush in 2000.


(136,786 posts)
13. I believe the country has had enough of this daily insanity. I know I have.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 01:58 PM
Jul 2020

I fear him starting a war and many people dying to satiate his ego and his 'chances'. I have no doubt he would go that far.
I do agree with you on the Supreme Court. Bush in 2000 at least had the pedigree of being a child of a president. Trump has nothing.
He admitted as much with Hannity a few weeks ago when asked what his priorities for his second term were...he had no answer.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
15. War
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 02:10 PM
Jul 2020

I think it is certain that he will attempt to create a crisis -- while ignoring the real ones -- by mid-October, in hopes that it helps him in November. A war, or at least military action, is definitely high among the possibilities. He has that rabid tape worm Stephen Miller whispering in his ear, and Miller would be glad to start a fight with a defenseless country if he thinks it would help.

Despite his lying about polls, Trump knows he is in deep shit. There have been a few things he has said on Fox News that show his fear that he is losing control.


(100,639 posts)
17. After talking to my dad's super-conservative friend on Sunday...
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 02:31 PM
Jul 2020

It's incredibly easy to see why Trump won. My dad is definitely not conservative, but he is an older white male, and has a lot of friends who are older, white, conservative males. So we had dinner with this friend on Saturday (it was outdoors), and we were getting along fine until he started talking politics, which I almost never do if I am invited somewhere. But it happened. And it was frightening how much racist and sexist crap he (the friend) was spewing, and he believes it. And then some of my neighbors nearby the house also say some extremely racist shit. It's that kind of mind that Trump attracts.

Personally we spend a lot of time talking about the blue collar workers who vote for Trump. But I think we need to focus on white collar workers who vote Trump. The country club membership types. The big house and fancy car types. Upper level, somewhat wealthy middle manager types and small business owners who make a lot of money and employ a decent amount of people. These are the types that own large houses and have Fox News on almost 24 hours a day on multiple TVs.

These are the kinds of voters who we need to focus on - those whose minds are warped by Fox, and buy into the right wing blogosphere on a 24 hour basis. Because they can get off the rails on any subject and start being incredibly racist and hateful, and most of the time they aren't even aware of it.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
19. Well said!
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 03:19 PM
Jul 2020

Thank you for this.

I'm at times surprised at the number of guys my age who were hippies back in the day, but who have morphed into the very conservative old guys they used to dislike. More of the women my age group have become increasingly liberal or progressive. It's interesting ....the white collar guys take a "why do you still care about those things?" stance when we interact, while the women are increasingly encouraging and supportive.

And you are on target with the role of Fox News. It's no coincidence that the vast majority of those guys watch Fox. I prefer to watch as wide a variety of news sources as possible.

Again, thank you. You raise important points.


(100,639 posts)
21. Yeah it's almost like you can instantly tell which side of the fence they fall on anymore.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 03:40 PM
Jul 2020

Once he started talking about the Stanford Newspaper and how they were screening for editorials because they didn't want to print anything that could be considered "offensive", I knew right then that it was Fox that warped his mind into believing this crap.


(272,279 posts)
18. THIS
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 02:40 PM
Jul 2020
The Trump cult poses such an out-of-control threat today that we need a national intervention in November.

Welcome back - glad it wasn't as bad as we thought.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
20. Thanks!
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 03:29 PM
Jul 2020

I'm feeling quite a bit better, though I am admittedly in my cranky old man phase. On a FB conversation with old college buddies, one guy mentioned some of the serious weaknesses of the Founding Fathers. A young chihuahua butt in, and said "If you don't love America, move to Venezuela."

I recommended that he educate himself ....for example, read Amendment 1 of the Constitution. It encourages people to voice their disagreements with "the government," as that is essential for attempting to create a more perfect union. It doesn't say "love it or leave it." I pointed out that his ignorant comment wa s a punch line in All in the Family, making an ass out of Archie without his realizing it.

This led to a brief debate about our history. Eventually, another friend told this youngster to stop debating me, as there was no chance that he'd look like anything but a damned fool. A few hours later, he asked me to recommend some history books for him to read up on what is known as the second American revolution, or the anti-rent war. He had never heard of it, though he lives where parts of it took place. That conflict was rooted in the opulently wealthy versus the working class.


(3,678 posts)
22. Good question.
Tue Jul 7, 2020, 05:08 PM
Jul 2020

I.e., what are the important things to focus on this summer? I took that to mean what to focus on that would help get out the vote.

I don't know that there's a one size fits all answer, and I don't know that I have any answers, but as someone who is "to the left of the Democratic Party" (but hardly a "young adult" - too much grey to try to pass that off anymore) I can point to an argument that has worked on radical/lefty people I know.

It's from Angela Davis. Earlier this year, I watched a livestream of a speech she gave, during which she talked about the importance of voting out Trump and the Republicans. Obviously, she's coming from the point of view of a left-wing activist. I'll have to paraphrase... she said, essentially, that she understands that most of the candidates on any ballot are not going to make a sincere effort to bring about the kind of change she desires, but that the results of elections determine the "space we have to work in," and that a Trump administration (or Republicans in general) constrict the space we have to work in.

That's not the only case to be made, and it's a take that might make some uncomfortable, but I think it's an interesting point and in my experience, it's been enough to move people.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
24. I've recently watched a
Wed Jul 8, 2020, 07:08 PM
Jul 2020

couple of documentaries that had Angela Davis in them. Like many of my generation, I've had great respect for her since the first time I saw news reports about her. And I was fortunate enough to get to spend time with her years ago.

So I especially appreciate your response! Thank you for this! I will certainly make use of it.


(3,678 posts)
27. I hope it works for you!
Thu Jul 9, 2020, 02:22 PM
Jul 2020

It's an argument for a very specific audience, but quite a few people I come in contact with fit the profile (myself included, more or less).

Angela Davis is a treasure.

Hope you're well! I've been reading "Braiding Sweetgrass," by Robin Wall Kimmerer. Do you know it? It's fantastic, and it made me think of you at least a couple of times.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
28. I talk to
Thu Jul 9, 2020, 07:19 PM
Jul 2020

college groups -- if area colleges opens this fall/ And a healthy number of the students -- especially the female students -- know who Angela is. So I really appreciate the suggestion!


(15,944 posts)
29. Very interesting post (in general) and the comments from..
Thu Jul 9, 2020, 10:44 PM
Jul 2020

your 90 yr old Aunt about your rural NYS area.

Wow, I just remembered we visited some friend of my dad's in a small countryside town and there was a parade. Ha.... a loooong time ago. Could of been the fourth? It was during the day, no fireworks, lots of American flags.

I'm a "City Girl" (NYC) but as a kid/teen we took vacations in NE and NYS (Aidirondaks, Finger Lakes etc), and I love visiting the country side of our USA.

Luckily a couple of guys I knew in my 20's (I'm 67) they've stayed progressive.
I was always progressive (as both my parents - my mom even more so), and I've stayed that way, and gotten more so.

As a newbie here (3+ weeks ) I saw people wishing you a good health outcome 2+ weeks ago.
So I just saw this thread now.
Glad to see you are on the mend! Enjoy your garden!

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
32. Well, thank you!
Fri Jul 10, 2020, 09:09 PM
Jul 2020

There are really good people here in the wilderness. (grin) And some of them are transplant from NYC. One of my closest neighbors -- his art studio is about 3 miles down the road -- goes back and forth. He and his family love hanging out here in the summer.

You are of an age where you might be familiar with an old friend David Peel (& the Lower East Side Gang). Ah, the good old days!

I'm posting a link to the second interview that I did with Dr. Bandy Lee. I posted the first part in February, if I remember correctly:



(11,949 posts)
30. Glad your getting your legs back under you.
Thu Jul 9, 2020, 11:24 PM
Jul 2020

Good to have you back. I read more than I post but always find your posts thoughtful.

Stay safe.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
33. Thanks!
Fri Jul 10, 2020, 09:13 PM
Jul 2020

Best day I've had in some time. I did start weeding part of my garden, which with 25 different crops, is a never-ending task. Recognizing that, I decided to let the weeds grow for at least another day. Now I'm listening to the rain coming down, something that I've always loved.

I appreciate your kind words!


(11,949 posts)
36. I envy your garden. Here in Florida we can't grow much in the summer
Fri Jul 10, 2020, 09:50 PM
Jul 2020

Okra, some peppers and field peas.

But come October I will be working in mine.

Have a nice weekend and stay safe.

H2O Man

(74,320 posts)
34. Thank you, Brad!
Fri Jul 10, 2020, 09:14 PM
Jul 2020

Much appreciated!

I see Trump just commuted Roger Stone's prison sentence. No surprise, of course. But still offensive.

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