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byronius

(7,450 posts)
Sat May 23, 2020, 03:45 PM May 2020

I had to listen to a truly Ignorant conversation at work on Friday.

Three reasonably intelligent women chatting on about the 'Hoax'. "All the numbers are inflated, all the deaths are for other reasons, the danger has already passed, the hospitals are empty, we should have a right to congregate and shop and not wear masks if we want to," blah blah blah.

These are not Trumpanzees. My boss is not a wise person, but is indeed technically skilled with a college degree. She's about to marry a man with four children (when she admits she hates children), and although she opposes Trump her fiancee is a right-wing libertarian with a PhD working in the medical device business who believes Covid 19 is a creation of the Chinese, so she kind of leans that way now. It's sad to watch her take this path.

My other two coworkers are both low-information, confused mothers of young children. Friday afternoon I was working hard while trying not to listen to the most bizarre display of superstitious ignorance I've been exposed to in awhile. It reminded me of people I heard in my childhood talking about blacks and women and gay people -- the wholly fact-free innocence of bookless, ahistorical nonsense.

They might as well have been three women from the 1300's blaming the bubonic plague on the Jews -- there was not a single bit of wisdom between them, and the confidence with which they spoke so openly in an ostensibly professional environment was the icing on the crap-cake.

After awhile I couldn't stand any more of the drivel being spewed across the cubicle wall, and so I put in my headphones and blazed away at the task before me. At the end of the afternoon, a coworker approached me and asked if we could walk out together.

He'd heard what I'd heard, and was as traumatized as I was by it. It made us both feel hopeless, although it was just an anecdotal bit of life -- the polls say differently, and I think most Americans are becoming quite Woke. But it was shocking to hear it actually said out loud in person. There was no recourse to respond -- they were too deep into utter idiocy, and it would have driven them further in instead of helping enlighten in any way.

This happened just a few days after a former business associate of mine (a CEO from the Bronx) called me and told me he'd gone through Covid in March. He described the symptoms in gruesome detail -- fourteen days, during four of which he was certain he was going to die. The hospital told him to stay home, nothing to be done for him. His wife and children were asymptomatic, but he had a bleeding rash, a feeling of drowning, racking body aches and cramps that would not let go. He's permanently marked by the experience.

This is a man who ran five miles a day before he caught it -- now he can't make it to the end of the block without wheezing. His doctor says he won't fully recover for a year or more.

Darwin haunts this nation now. Information is the coin of survival. And those who possess the ability to critically think and study the science, and to act rationally and remain balanced in the chaos will have a much higher chance to emerge unscathed.

But those three women with children they are responsible for -- and all the other people who think this is so much media hype, overblown political rhetoric, baseless fear -- risk their lives and their children's lives, and to a certain extent, all of our lives.

The GOP's war on education for the past fifty years is going to kill more Americans than any other force in our history. It may be a difficult and seemingly intangible link to make, but it seems like plain fact to me -- purposefully spreading ignorance for power's sake has never been a long-term strategy for survival for any culture in human history.

Quite the opposite.

87 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I had to listen to a truly Ignorant conversation at work on Friday. (Original Post) byronius May 2020 OP
'Darwin haunts this nation now. Information is the coin of survival. elleng May 2020 #1
I used to tell my teenage kids.... Turbineguy May 2020 #8
Also, the average I.Q. in the USA is 103, meaning one-half of the population scores below that. TheBlackAdder May 2020 #58
Lol..So what is your point? That the "average I.Q." outside of the USA whathehell May 2020 #87
We are a religious nation, which means that our default position in assessing life stopbush May 2020 #2
Bingo! BigmanPigman May 2020 #16
America was for a long time a Protestant-majority nation, but Methodists, Presbyterians, ... Hekate May 2020 #40
What you said is true. StarryNite May 2020 #47
America always had a strain of anti-intellectualism... Hekate May 2020 #59
+1 Tommymac May 2020 #57
Catholics don't either..How 'bout we lose the Broad Brush? whathehell May 2020 #72
Yes on all counts Hekate May 2020 #82
Correct.. whathehell May 2020 #85
Irving Kristol ... father of the neocons ... UpInArms May 2020 #77
You mean like most nations? whathehell May 2020 #75
Wrong. stopbush May 2020 #79
Lol..If there are "dozens more" whathehell May 2020 #80
It wasn't necessary to list all of them to disprove your stupid claim. stopbush May 2020 #81
Apparently it was, since your stupid response fails whathehell May 2020 #86
A must read post malaise May 2020 #3
Denial Newest Reality May 2020 #4
+1 byronius May 2020 #5
+2 LovingA2andMI May 2020 #14
Beautifully stated and terribly sad bedazzled May 2020 #6
Whistling through the graveyard Warpy May 2020 #7
I feel your pain... this is so distressing LymphocyteLover May 2020 #9
It is because Trump and Republicans has so inundated us with lies, we approach everything given us a LizBeth May 2020 #11
Yes-- but the fact the so many powerful people let him get away with it, especially LymphocyteLover May 2020 #52
Of course it is not only Trump. RW, Christian Coaltion, Republicans have spouted lies LizBeth May 2020 #53
When listening to three, it feels like there are so many. But at 40% of the nation that makes for a LizBeth May 2020 #10
I'm in the same situation. There are wnylib May 2020 #55
Right there with you. LizBeth May 2020 #56
I too feel your pain. leftinalabama May 2020 #12
It's much the same over here in Gulfport, MS. LuvNewcastle May 2020 #28
Welcome to DU. LittleGirl May 2020 #32
Me too seta1950 May 2020 #13
So many people stop thinking when they reach a conclusion or are handed one on media Bernardo de La Paz May 2020 #15
"Lazy thinkers" is an accurate term. BigmanPigman May 2020 #18
Dear Byronius, I reprinted your letter on my FaceBook page and attributed it to you... Mars and Minerva May 2020 #17
Honored. byronius May 2020 #44
It was a hit on my private political page... Mars and Minerva May 2020 #66
Denial is not just a river in Egypt. paleotn May 2020 #19
Whenever I hear a story like this, I get the mad urge... Girard442 May 2020 #20
Only 8% of Americans see no benefit to wearing a mask EleanorR May 2020 #21
90% of that 8% might be here in Florida. NoMoreRepugs May 2020 #39
Same here. Wearing a mask in Brevard county puts you decidedly in a minority position. Pacifist Patriot May 2020 #73
Thank you for sharing as you do. Nicely said. CountMyVote4Reality May 2020 #22
I hate to say this, but the only way some people will louis-t May 2020 #23
Thanks for posting PatSeg May 2020 #24
Yes. Upper management is on it. byronius May 2020 #64
There's a whole of "popular misconceptions" PatSeg May 2020 #65
+1000 smirkymonkey May 2020 #25
"It really pisses me off that I am morally obligated to save your ignorant asses along with my niyad May 2020 #26
How much of this is fear being expressed by magical thinking? Texin May 2020 #27
Byronius, how old was this co-worker who's getting married? Texin May 2020 #29
The latter. byronius May 2020 #43
Don't forget, barbtries May 2020 #30
I don't miss that. Iggo May 2020 #31
I can only say, what a powerful post. BlancheSplanchnik May 2020 #33
Dr Martin Luther King Jr said it best, "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere iluvtennis May 2020 #34
K&R. So well stated Duppers May 2020 #35
I heard on DSR that 42% of Republicans believe that the virus was invented by Bill Gates dawg day May 2020 #36
Exactly why the media, education, 'intellectualism' appalachiablue May 2020 #37
I suspect the perceived virus connection to climate change I keep coming across... SleeplessinSoCal May 2020 #38
Thank you. Hekate May 2020 #41
Compensatory denial. I keep hearing some state wild statistical downplaying as well. lambchopp59 May 2020 #42
Excellent post! mountain grammy May 2020 #45
Yep, it's all crashing down now. The only way to slow ecstatic May 2020 #46
byronius.... Upthevibe May 2020 #48
Confusion? RainCaster May 2020 #50
CA. byronius May 2020 #61
As hard as it is for me to believe Upthevibe May 2020 #70
I hate to say it, but your boss is an idiot RainCaster May 2020 #49
Just wow! At least you know there's one kindred spirit at work. OMGWTF May 2020 #51
I grew up reading Abby Hoffman's books I_UndergroundPanther May 2020 #54
He had a profound effect on my life. byronius May 2020 #62
The disinformation Kitchari May 2020 #60
well.. it's nice you had a coworker with a brain to approach and walk out with you Demovictory9 May 2020 #63
Confidently spouting ignorance Aussie105 May 2020 #67
Just curious, what kind of business are you in? Open Laura PourMeADrink May 2020 #68
I live in a deep red county in a red state. Alwaysna May 2020 #69
It is not enough to not engage Edwcraig May 2020 #71
It is frustrating Woodwizard May 2020 #74
Read this article. It may explain why people are the way they are. chwaliszewski May 2020 #76
Maybe consider dropping a copy of the front page today's NYT on her desk when no one's around. JudyM May 2020 #78
Great narrative. I've had similar experiences where I work. SpankMe May 2020 #83
I am hearing the same thing from people. It seems Trump's message is being pushed all over FB. UCmeNdc May 2020 #84

elleng

(133,060 posts)
1. 'Darwin haunts this nation now. Information is the coin of survival.
Sat May 23, 2020, 03:51 PM
May 2020

And those who possess the ability to critically think and study the science, and to act rationally and remain balanced in the chaos will have a much higher chance to emerge unscathed. . .

The GOP's war on education for the past fifty years is going to kill more Americans than any other force in our history. It may be a difficult and seemingly intangible link to make, but it seems like plain fact to me -- purposefully spreading ignorance for power's sake has never been a long-term strategy for survival for any culture in human history.'




whathehell

(29,268 posts)
87. Lol..So what is your point? That the "average I.Q." outside of the USA
Mon May 25, 2020, 03:21 PM
May 2020

is appreciably higher, or that their "averages" somehow work differently?

Confirmation of either as fact, would, of course, require a link.

stopbush

(24,464 posts)
2. We are a religious nation, which means that our default position in assessing life
Sat May 23, 2020, 03:54 PM
May 2020

stems from non-factual, magical thinking. Religion predisposes us intellectually to believe the absurd, and to embrace the conceit that we are privy to information that the heathens will never see.

We might be on a return to the dark ages.

Hekate

(92,273 posts)
40. America was for a long time a Protestant-majority nation, but Methodists, Presbyterians, ...
Sat May 23, 2020, 06:20 PM
May 2020

...and Episcopalians did NOT scorn education and science. That was for the fundamentalists, a fringe group in the minority.

It was only when conservative power-brokers discovered a way to greater power by using them as willing tools in the culture wars, and at a certain point they rebranded themselves as Evangelicals and got them some mega-churches, well the rest is US history.

That is only a small sketch, but I am 72 and I watched it happen in my lifetime.

StarryNite

(9,839 posts)
47. What you said is true.
Sat May 23, 2020, 06:54 PM
May 2020

And it's bizarre how far down that rabbit hole we've gone as a nation in such a relatively short period of time.

Hekate

(92,273 posts)
59. America always had a strain of anti-intellectualism...
Sat May 23, 2020, 09:48 PM
May 2020

But it was never dominant in the way it has become. We are screwed until it can be returned to its place in the scheme of things.

whathehell

(29,268 posts)
72. Catholics don't either..How 'bout we lose the Broad Brush?
Sun May 24, 2020, 09:39 AM
May 2020

Only a third of Christians identify as "Evangelical" or Fundamentalist.

Hekate

(92,273 posts)
82. Yes on all counts
Sun May 24, 2020, 01:23 PM
May 2020

There's a kind of reflex rejection here at times that I find dismaying and annoying. It can blind us to distinctions that should be made. Christians are not a homogenous group, not even within sects.

I strongly believe in separation of church and state as a foundational principle that protects us all. Betsy DeVos has no business running the Dept of Education as a branch of her church, and members of Opus Dei have no business being on the Supreme Court if they believe they answer primarily to their religious law and not to secular law. I probably don't need to expand on that.

whathehell

(29,268 posts)
85. Correct..
Sun May 24, 2020, 10:06 PM
May 2020

and I appreciate your confirmation of those facts. I'm a strong believer in the separation of church and state as well.

UpInArms

(51,341 posts)
77. Irving Kristol ... father of the neocons ...
Sun May 24, 2020, 11:58 AM
May 2020

Said “we don’t have to follow their religious rules, we just convince them that we are one of theirs, and they will follow us” ... kind of paraphrased, and I can no longer find the paper online from which I quote ... but it was seared into my brain when I read it ... it explained so much.

whathehell

(29,268 posts)
75. You mean like most nations?
Sun May 24, 2020, 10:01 AM
May 2020

a littlr more, a little less?

Pleas..Even the "enlightened" institutional atheism of the Soviet Union has, in large part, gone back to Russian Orthodoxy. .Seventy One percent now identify as 'Russian Orthodox....Looks like a LOT of us will be "going back to the Dark Ages"


https://religionandpolitics.org/2018/10/16/russias-journey-from-orthodoxy-to-atheism-and-back-again/

stopbush

(24,464 posts)
79. Wrong.
Sun May 24, 2020, 12:50 PM
May 2020

Is religion important to you?

Country Yes/No
Sweden 17%/83%
Denmark 19%/81%
Norway 22%/78%
Czech Republic 21%/75%

There are dozens more. You know, the enlightened countries.

whathehell

(29,268 posts)
80. Lol..If there are "dozens more"
Sun May 24, 2020, 01:01 PM
May 2020

why could you only find four with relatively small populations?
.Nice try.

stopbush

(24,464 posts)
81. It wasn't necessary to list all of them to disprove your stupid claim.
Sun May 24, 2020, 01:03 PM
May 2020

But here ya go:

This page charts a list of countries by importance of religion.

Contents
1 Methodology
2 Countries
3 See also
4 References
Methodology[edit]
The table below is based upon global Gallup Poll in 2009 research which asked "Is religion important in your daily life?". Percentages for "yes" and "no" answers are listed below; they often do not add up to 100% because some answered "don't know" or did not answer. [1]

Countries[edit]

Country Yes, important[1] No, unimportant[1]
Estonia 16% 84%
Sweden 17% 83%
Denmark 19% 81%
Norway[a] 22% 78%
Czech Republic[a] 21% 75%
Japan 24% 75%
Hong Kong 24% 74%
United Kingdom 27% 73%
Finland[a] 28% 70%
Vietnam 30% 69%
France 30% 69%
Australia[a] 32% 68%
The Netherlands[a] 33% 67%
New Zealand[a] 33% 66%
Belgium[a] 33% 58%
Cuba[a] 34% 64%
Bulgaria[a] 34% 62%
Russia 34% 66%
Belarus 34% 56%
Luxembourg 39% 59%
Hungary 39% 58%
Albania 39% 53%
Latvia 39% 58%
Germany 40% 59%
Uruguay 41% 59%
Switzerland 41% 57%
Canada 42% 57%
Lithuania 42% 49%
South Korea 43% 56%
Kazakhstan 43% 48%
Taiwan[a] 45% 54%
Ukraine 46% 48%
Slovenia 47% 52%
Slovakia[a] 47% 52%
Spain 49% 51%
Azerbaijan 50% 49%
Israel 51% 48%
Serbia 54% 44%
Ireland 54% 46%
Austria[a] 55% 43%
Uzbekistan 59% 38%
Belize[a] 62% 33%
Argentina 65% 34%
United States 69% 31%
Croatia 70% 28%
Chile 70% 29%
Singapore 70% 29%
Jamaica[a] 70% 30%
Montenegro 71% 28%
Greece 71% 28%
Portugal[a] 72% 26%
Italy 72% 25%
Moldova 72% 19%
Kyrgyzstan 72% 25%
Iran[a] 73% 27%
Mexico 73% 25%
Poland 75% 19%
Cyprus 75% 25%
North Macedonia 76% 22%
Botswana[a] 77% 23%
Bosnia and Herzegovina 77% 21%
Venezuela 79% 21%
Costa Rica 79% 20%
Armenia 79% 19%
Turkmenistan 80% 18%
Togo[a] 80% 13%
Georgia 81% 16%
Turkey 82% 15%
Ecuador 82% 17%
Colombia 83% 16%
El Salvador 83% 16%
Peru 84% 14%
Iraq 84% 11%
Nicaragua 84% 15%
Honduras 84% 15%
Romania 84% 12%
South Africa 85% 15%
Puerto Rico[a] 85% 14%
Tajikistan 85% 12%
Haiti[a] 85% 12%
Mozambique[a] 86% 14%
Malta 86% 10%
Brazil 87% 13%
Dominican Republic 87% 13%
Lebanon 87% 12%
Zimbabwe 88% 12%
Cote d'Ivoire 88% 12%
Burkina Faso[a] 88% 12%
Panama 88% 11%
Angola[a] 88% 11%
Guatemala 88% 9%
Tanzania 89% 11%
Bolivia 89% 10%
Syria 89% 9%
India 90% 9%
United Arab Emirates 91% 8%
Kuwait 91% 6%
Namibia[a] 92% 9%
Trinidad and Tobago[a] 92% 8%
Paraguay 92% 8%
Pakistan 96% 4%
State of Palestine 93% 7%
Sudan 93% 7%
Uganda 93% 7%
Madagascar[a] 93% 7%
Benin[a] 93% 7%
Nepal 93% 6%
Tunisia 93% 5%
Saudi Arabia 93% 4%
Central African Republic[a] 94% 6%
Kenya 94% 6%
Liberia[a] 94% 6%
Democratic Republic of the Congo 94% 5%
Bahrain 94% 4%
Ghana 95% 5%
Zambia 95% 5%
Qatar 95% 4%
Algeria 95% 4%
Chad 95% 5%
Rwanda 95% 5%
Republic of the Congo[a] 95% 5%
Mali 95% 3%
Philippines 96% 4%
Cameroon 96% 4%
Malaysia 96% 3%
Nigeria 96% 3%
Cambodia 96% 3%
Senegal 96% 4%
Jordan[a] 96% 4%
Myanmar[a] 97% 3%
Afghanistan 97% 3%
Laos[a] 97% 3%
Guinea[a] 97% 3%
Morocco 97% 2%
Egypt 97% 2%
Comoros 97% 2%
Thailand 97% 2%
Burundi 98% 2%
Djibouti 98% 2%
Mauritania 98% 2%
Sri Lanka 99% 1%
Malawi 99% 1%
Indonesia 99% 1%
Yemen 99% 1%
Niger 100% 0%
Ethiopia 100% 0%
Somalia[a] 100% 0%
Bangladesh 100% 0%
Oman 100% 0%

whathehell

(29,268 posts)
86. Apparently it was, since your stupid response fails
Mon May 25, 2020, 02:55 PM
May 2020

Last edited Mon May 25, 2020, 03:34 PM - Edit history (1)

to support your claim.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
4. Denial
Sat May 23, 2020, 03:56 PM
May 2020

I think we get to see more of a common human coping mechanism emerge in times of crisis.

While sometimes ignorance, gullibility and other factors play into the mix, (we are usually painting with a broad brush for the sake of brevity) we know that people can try to displace what frightens them or do their best to resolve their own confirmation biases in order to just feel comfortable or stable.

The same kind of phenomena seems to apply to climate change and all of its implications. When the whole world, or ecosystem is at stake and the time frame for the ramifications and outcomes is increasingly short, some people are capable of looking at the facts and using their own coping mechanisms to deal with the distress and disturbance those facts bring them. They may end up, at the very least, more capable of dealing with the perturbations and crises better because they are aware and maybe more prepared.

Those who choose denial choose to enter a psychologically protective bubble, (though it may be what we call delusional or fantasy-prone) and there are various ways they create and reinforce that bubble, (beliefs, opinions, conspiracy theories, etc.). Now, one could say that the bubble of denial can be more comfortable and adaptive, but it could also be seen as a very weak, (as in soap bubble) method because the bubble can easily pop and the stark and vivid results of what is actually going on can be a very difficult and rude awakening which then can cause mental distress, breakdowns, destructive behavior, etc., or at the very least, would require a sufficient amount of time to sink in order to deal with and adapt to it.

bedazzled

(1,799 posts)
6. Beautifully stated and terribly sad
Sat May 23, 2020, 03:57 PM
May 2020

Life threatening ignorance. I believe thought is healing, and pray each day for those who are so misguided

Warpy

(112,103 posts)
7. Whistling through the graveyard
Sat May 23, 2020, 04:04 PM
May 2020

is how a lot of people deal with threat, both real and imaginary. They're denying this because they can't see, smell, feel or taste it and minimizing it keeps panic down.

Anything that comes out of that festering lump of adipose tissue in the White House is deeply conforting to them.

This epidemic is still in the early stage. It will get worse. Pity them.

LymphocyteLover

(5,898 posts)
9. I feel your pain... this is so distressing
Sat May 23, 2020, 04:11 PM
May 2020

we seem to be moving backwards in age of excess information no less

LizBeth

(9,966 posts)
11. It is because Trump and Republicans has so inundated us with lies, we approach everything given us a
Sat May 23, 2020, 04:23 PM
May 2020

untruths. For the first time, institutions that are responsible for our health and safety cannot be trust because of their misinformation campaign to get along with Trump. It has been done purposely. This is the result.

LymphocyteLover

(5,898 posts)
52. Yes-- but the fact the so many powerful people let him get away with it, especially
Sat May 23, 2020, 08:12 PM
May 2020

the rightwing media who actively promote his lies and disinfo, is supremely fucked up.

LizBeth

(9,966 posts)
53. Of course it is not only Trump. RW, Christian Coaltion, Republicans have spouted lies
Sat May 23, 2020, 08:34 PM
May 2020

for a long long time and Trump has enabled them to do it more bluntly in our face than ever before. CDC, DOJ.

LizBeth

(9,966 posts)
10. When listening to three, it feels like there are so many. But at 40% of the nation that makes for a
Sat May 23, 2020, 04:21 PM
May 2020

lot of bodies out there that will be saying this stupid shit. What scares me most about this virus is I am all on my own. I have no one that can help me during the time, and I cannot imagine going thru this by myself unable to do the simplest of life needs, not to mention taking the dog out two or three times a day. I just do not know what I would do.

wnylib

(22,783 posts)
55. I'm in the same situation. There are
Sat May 23, 2020, 08:57 PM
May 2020

more of us than you may think. I mentioned my concern about my cat to a friend who said that if it became necessary, she could take the cat, so there is that relief for me.

But, on a day to day basis, there is no one who could help me in my home. I have some frozen foods prepared for heating up if necessary, and plenty of water and juice on hand, but if I got too weak to handle those things, I don't know what I'd do.

On the other hand, due to age and underlying conditions, I would probably be in the hospital soon after getting sick. But in that case, I would probably not survive at all.

So my primary goal right now is prevention and survival until there is a vaccine or reliable, effective treatment drug, preferrably both.

leftinalabama

(30 posts)
12. I too feel your pain.
Sat May 23, 2020, 04:28 PM
May 2020

I live in South Alabama and your 3 coworkers sound exactly like what I hear from most people here. In Mobile,Al where I live, our Covid cases are exploding and the vast majority do not wear masks in public and our restaurants, beaches, skating rinks, bars etc are fully open. It is truly disgusting. If you try to talk to people about wearing masks they go into a rage. So you are not alone. May common sense and common courtesy prevail in the end.... Vote

LuvNewcastle

(16,922 posts)
28. It's much the same over here in Gulfport, MS.
Sat May 23, 2020, 05:35 PM
May 2020

People weren't wearing masks at all at first but as the number of cases climbed, a lot of people started doing the right thing. Now that they've relaxed a lot of the rules, people are doing things as if the virus never came. I know better than to ask someone why they aren't wearing a mask, but they had better not say anything to me when I wear mine. They will get an earfull.

LittleGirl

(8,299 posts)
32. Welcome to DU.
Sat May 23, 2020, 05:47 PM
May 2020

I have an uncle down in Gulf Shores and he has a lovely place he’s updating since he retired. Love it down there.

seta1950

(933 posts)
13. Me too
Sat May 23, 2020, 04:28 PM
May 2020

I’ve been working with people like that for 15 years yesterday I finally said something “ do you think almost 100.000 deaths is not serious enough for you guys , or are you now experts? “ they both stayed very quiet.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,492 posts)
15. So many people stop thinking when they reach a conclusion or are handed one on media
Sat May 23, 2020, 04:40 PM
May 2020

... instead of proceeding to try to find flaws with it.

For example, a lot of superficial thinking is based on the idea that if the rates of infection are going down, then it is defeated and relaxing everything wide open is not going to make problems.

Another example: "Hospitals are empty" is because elective surgeries are cancelled and people are suffering with new and existing conditions rather than risk going to hospitals or doctors or clinics. But many people stop thinking on the point as soon as they hear "hospitals are empty".

Even intelligent people (PhDs and all) can be LAZY THINKERS.

Mars and Minerva

(369 posts)
17. Dear Byronius, I reprinted your letter on my FaceBook page and attributed it to you...
Sat May 23, 2020, 04:45 PM
May 2020

I hope you don't mind. Let me know if it's a problem or if you would like to use a different name. B.

Mars and Minerva

(369 posts)
66. It was a hit on my private political page...
Sun May 24, 2020, 12:23 AM
May 2020

It started a lively discussion (all democrats) so many thanks.
We are a small group. Many of us are affiliated with OFA in NJ. Any time you are looking for a friendly place to re-post your work...let us know.

Girard442

(6,180 posts)
20. Whenever I hear a story like this, I get the mad urge...
Sat May 23, 2020, 04:52 PM
May 2020

...to roleplay a convo that they would find insane. Make "plans" with complicit co-worker to recruit people into the Satanic Temple. Talk about how Soros is spreading big money around to foment insurrection and how coworker should get in on it.

It's mad. Would end badly. Still.

EleanorR

(2,425 posts)
21. Only 8% of Americans see no benefit to wearing a mask
Sat May 23, 2020, 04:53 PM
May 2020

I'm sorry to hear your coworkers are part of this small group of nutjobs.

louis-t

(23,411 posts)
23. I hate to say this, but the only way some people will
Sat May 23, 2020, 04:57 PM
May 2020

wake up is to put videos of people suffering from this on the news. Every day. Show them gasping for air, show the rashes, show the faces of people wracked with pain. Meanwhile, as long a republicans insist on gathering in large groups without masks, maybe they will kill themselves off and not take too may of us with them.

PatSeg

(49,036 posts)
24. Thanks for posting
Sat May 23, 2020, 04:58 PM
May 2020

Being you are working with some nonbelievers, is your work place safe? Are co-workers practicing social distancing?

byronius

(7,450 posts)
64. Yes. Upper management is on it.
Sat May 23, 2020, 11:51 PM
May 2020

My boss is just missing certain circuits. I knew that, but this was -- beyond. It was a mild shock for me.

A recording of the conversation would have resulted in dismissal. But I'd prefer to deal with it on a more personal level. I don't think she's a bad person, just a new manager and not well-read. No history, no logic, no depth. She's prone to popular misconceptions.

PatSeg

(49,036 posts)
65. There's a whole of "popular misconceptions"
Sun May 24, 2020, 12:09 AM
May 2020

going around these days. At a time when we have almost any information at our fingertips and people are more misinformed than ever. Glad to hear your workplace is safe though. I know it must be hard for a lot of people who have to work, not knowing what they might be exposed to and then possibly bringing it home.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
25. +1000
Sat May 23, 2020, 04:59 PM
May 2020

Thanks for your post. It's so depressing to hear otherwise intelligent, educated people spouting this nonsense. I expect it from the uneducated Trumpers, but when it comes from people who you think should know better, it's shocking, to say the least.

Before we left the office to start working from home in March, I heard similar things from many of my co-workers and I just had to tune out because I didn't want to get in an argument with them. And we live in Boston, which is one of the hardest hit areas in the country. I really don't know what it's going to take to wake people up. I suppose only when it hits them personally will it change their minds about things.

niyad

(115,794 posts)
26. "It really pisses me off that I am morally obligated to save your ignorant asses along with my
Sat May 23, 2020, 05:23 PM
May 2020

Own."

You probably cannot use this line in a workplace, but I have used it other places. They do take offense, for some reason.

Texin

(2,612 posts)
27. How much of this is fear being expressed by magical thinking?
Sat May 23, 2020, 05:32 PM
May 2020

I'm sure some of it is, at least. The other part of it - a large part - is the kind of ignorance that's been cultivated in the so-called cult of personality as displayed by the likes of tRump, the Kardashians and Mama June, not to mention the Fux cultists who've had more than twenty years of hard indoctrination by Murdochian philosophy.

Texin

(2,612 posts)
29. Byronius, how old was this co-worker who's getting married?
Sat May 23, 2020, 05:37 PM
May 2020

This sounds like a rather young woman, someone who is not very confident of her beliefs. Or a desperate aging woman who will bend her own thoughts in order to latch onto the last chance at marriage (even though she will now be tethered to four kids she's made plain she never wanted anyway, or any kids ever).

barbtries

(28,920 posts)
30. Don't forget,
Sat May 23, 2020, 05:37 PM
May 2020

these willfully ignorant, blase, selfish jerks will endanger your life. A co-worker had it in CA and was sick for 3 whole weeks, as sick as he's ever been. Incidentally he's a foxbot and is disgusted by Newsom's insistence on putting public health over commerce. Even after saying, "I'm happy to be alive." This man is an MD.

I hope you are able to keep a large distance, obtain a medical grade mask, and disinfect liberally at your job.

Maybe you could anonymously print this out and leave it in the break room, by the printer, etc.

https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2020/04/03/hold-the-line-coronavirus-jonathan-smith?fbclid=IwAR0BvbGGUMahs1Dph-Zjxfn6daw4XI-wuReKP6fydIpRyeq8aXCAh2715Ng

I'm worried for you now. And others forced to return to the office. Can you work remotely??

Iggo

(47,799 posts)
31. I don't miss that.
Sat May 23, 2020, 05:38 PM
May 2020

Working at home since the hunker down.

Lotta that shit in the week before we took our offices home, though.

iluvtennis

(20,134 posts)
34. Dr Martin Luther King Jr said it best, "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere
Sat May 23, 2020, 05:50 PM
May 2020

ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

Duppers

(28,173 posts)
35. K&R. So well stated
Sat May 23, 2020, 05:53 PM
May 2020

I had to read your post aloud to hubby who's working at the kitchen table.

I've managed, I think, to enlighten a couple of CT's; at least I made them think by sending info they had not seen or thought of - they were actually low-info dems (difficult to imagine but they exist ).

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
36. I heard on DSR that 42% of Republicans believe that the virus was invented by Bill Gates
Sat May 23, 2020, 05:57 PM
May 2020

something something something implant a chip into us all because.

It's not even a Trump conspiracy theory. It's more insane even than Trump would say (though I'm sure he retweets it).

42%.

And probably more than half of them have MS Office on their computers, and are now throwing them into the bathtub because. Implant. Chip. Gates.

appalachiablue

(41,625 posts)
37. Exactly why the media, education, 'intellectualism'
Sat May 23, 2020, 06:06 PM
May 2020

greed and selfishness are high on the hit list for 50+ years

SleeplessinSoCal

(9,363 posts)
38. I suspect the perceived virus connection to climate change I keep coming across...
Sat May 23, 2020, 06:07 PM
May 2020

...caused a no holds barred reaction from the right to trash truth and science.

We were in the "information age". We now exist in the "disinformation age".

I don't see how epidemics are connected to climate, but articles like this are misleading.

https://www.examiner.net/opinion/20200522/other-voices-virus-offers-lesson-on-risk-of-ignoring-climate-change

lambchopp59

(2,809 posts)
42. Compensatory denial. I keep hearing some state wild statistical downplaying as well.
Sat May 23, 2020, 06:33 PM
May 2020

Once it hits home, one of their own suffers the raging case of COVID, reality bites. Then, much like the DABDA grief reaction: 1. "I can't believe she died". 2. I'm so pissed at that doctor 3. God, take me if you'll bring back so and so. 4. I can't live without her, I'm so down. 5. She's not coming back, I'll have to live my life.
Many of the sort who aren't abject Trumpers may go through some phases, but with cases surging in the "We don't wear masks" areas of the country, so many have a gobsmack of reality to brick wall into.
It's easier to deny, ignore than than face our current reality.

mountain grammy

(26,872 posts)
45. Excellent post!
Sat May 23, 2020, 06:46 PM
May 2020

like spending time with my in-laws. but also so very depressing.

Yes, Darwin haunts this nation now ....

ecstatic

(33,138 posts)
46. Yep, it's all crashing down now. The only way to slow
Sat May 23, 2020, 06:49 PM
May 2020

our pending demise would be to forcefully stop all RW propaganda, but that's pretty much impossible, thanks to our Constitution.

It's funny how many gaps and loopholes are in that document with regard to the president and guns, but there's almost no wiggle room when it comes to speech.

Perhaps it's time for a different approach with regard to the loudest rethug assholes. Payments? Legal blackmail? Time to get creative!

Upthevibe

(8,346 posts)
70. As hard as it is for me to believe
Sun May 24, 2020, 09:20 AM
May 2020

I realize there are some red parts in our state. I think it's mainly in some of Orange County and then up in the Fresno area seems to be where a lot of them are (the Devin Nunes crowd).

I'm so happy to be in L.A. but even here every so often you'll hear a trumpster or about one...

RainCaster

(11,078 posts)
49. I hate to say it, but your boss is an idiot
Sat May 23, 2020, 07:15 PM
May 2020

All the college time in the world will not excuse her sad lack of critical thinking skills.

If you doubt what I say, look at all those degreed lawyers sucking up to DFT's backside. Think about all those years of law school going to waste. Your boss is no different. She hates kids, but will marry into 4 of them?

OMGWTF

(4,152 posts)
51. Just wow! At least you know there's one kindred spirit at work.
Sat May 23, 2020, 07:59 PM
May 2020

Kudos for your Abbie Hoffman icon. I got to buy him a beer when he was in Cleveland in 1988 giving a talk about his life at a bar in the Flats (he committed suicide in 1989). He was a nice, gentle man, and autographed my dogeared copy of "Steal this Book" that I actually stole from my older brother -- LOL! It is one of my most cherished possessions.

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,668 posts)
54. I grew up reading Abby Hoffman's books
Sat May 23, 2020, 08:51 PM
May 2020

Steal this book was my favorite along with revolution for the hell of it.

byronius

(7,450 posts)
62. He had a profound effect on my life.
Sat May 23, 2020, 11:37 PM
May 2020

Met him at the Kerouac Conference in -- 82? Shook his hand at the Boulderado. Went to see him speak a bunch of times, read every word he ever wrote, and wrote an 800 page novel with him as one of the main protagonists.

Still, to have shared a beer with him -- wow indeed. I'm not big on hero-worship, but I come close with Abbie. It's less about the man than the idea -- small-s socialism, lifting up the downtrodden, basic fairness and the best of the American Dream -- but his ability to bedevil Richard Nixon toe to toe was nothing less than heroic.

I still wonder about the suicide. It's possible, but George H. W. Bush had just taken office, as I believe -- and there were other questionable circumstances. We'll never know. But.

I can imagine what he'd say about all this.

Aussie105

(5,755 posts)
67. Confidently spouting ignorance
Sun May 24, 2020, 04:36 AM
May 2020

is a way of life for some people.

It's a coping mechanism. Discount the things that scare you and may harm you, so that your world stays warm and fuzzy and you know everything will be ok.

Major look of surprise and disappointment when the world shows itself to be an ugly, non caring place. Hopefully, the revelation will not be fatal. But if it is, there is always a Darwin Award that can come their way.

 

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)
68. Just curious, what kind of business are you in? Open
Sun May 24, 2020, 07:44 AM
May 2020

Now with people in close proximity in cubes? Near the Bronx? I know banks had to stay open in a limited basis, but many get to work from home.

Alwaysna

(576 posts)
69. I live in a deep red county in a red state.
Sun May 24, 2020, 07:50 AM
May 2020

It can be a lonely place for someone who values knowledge , education and truth. Others probably see me as a know it all. It gets lonely without someone to share a meaningful conversation . I've concluded that most people don't really want to hear the truth and history is over their heads as well as what is really going on. I'm thankful to have DU.

Edwcraig

(318 posts)
71. It is not enough to not engage
Sun May 24, 2020, 09:37 AM
May 2020

What if you had just said

"a former business associate of mine (a CEO from the Bronx) called me and told me he'd gone through Covid in March. He described the symptoms in gruesome detail -- fourteen days, during four of which he was certain he was going to die. The hospital told him to stay home, nothing to be done for him. His wife and children were asymptomatic, but he had a bleeding rash, a feeling of drowning, racking body aches and cramps that would not let go. He's permanently marked by the experience.

This is a man who ran five miles a day before he caught it -- now he can't make it to the end of the block without wheezing. His doctor says he won't fully recover for a year or more."

And walk away. We need to personalize this. And we need to stand up and engage. This is life and death.

Woodwizard

(893 posts)
74. It is frustrating
Sun May 24, 2020, 09:53 AM
May 2020

My Daughter who has a 3 month old boyfriends family are trump supporters and are not taking things seriously his grandmother who is only in her late 60's is on oxygen from heavy smoking. They have gatherings one of the brothers regularly comes up from NYC the biggest hot spot here.

Meanwhile my wife and I stay put and take all precautions as all of our friends do also.

SpankMe

(3,044 posts)
83. Great narrative. I've had similar experiences where I work.
Sun May 24, 2020, 02:15 PM
May 2020

Coworkers who are college educated, skeptical of religion, understand climate change - yet, still saying Trump is the greatest president in their lifetime. I can't figure it out.

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