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Sat May 23, 2020, 03:45 PM

I had to listen to a truly Ignorant conversation at work on Friday.

Three reasonably intelligent women chatting on about the 'Hoax'. "All the numbers are inflated, all the deaths are for other reasons, the danger has already passed, the hospitals are empty, we should have a right to congregate and shop and not wear masks if we want to," blah blah blah.

These are not Trumpanzees. My boss is not a wise person, but is indeed technically skilled with a college degree. She's about to marry a man with four children (when she admits she hates children), and although she opposes Trump her fiancee is a right-wing libertarian with a PhD working in the medical device business who believes Covid 19 is a creation of the Chinese, so she kind of leans that way now. It's sad to watch her take this path.

My other two coworkers are both low-information, confused mothers of young children. Friday afternoon I was working hard while trying not to listen to the most bizarre display of superstitious ignorance I've been exposed to in awhile. It reminded me of people I heard in my childhood talking about blacks and women and gay people -- the wholly fact-free innocence of bookless, ahistorical nonsense.

They might as well have been three women from the 1300's blaming the bubonic plague on the Jews -- there was not a single bit of wisdom between them, and the confidence with which they spoke so openly in an ostensibly professional environment was the icing on the crap-cake.

After awhile I couldn't stand any more of the drivel being spewed across the cubicle wall, and so I put in my headphones and blazed away at the task before me. At the end of the afternoon, a coworker approached me and asked if we could walk out together.

He'd heard what I'd heard, and was as traumatized as I was by it. It made us both feel hopeless, although it was just an anecdotal bit of life -- the polls say differently, and I think most Americans are becoming quite Woke. But it was shocking to hear it actually said out loud in person. There was no recourse to respond -- they were too deep into utter idiocy, and it would have driven them further in instead of helping enlighten in any way.

This happened just a few days after a former business associate of mine (a CEO from the Bronx) called me and told me he'd gone through Covid in March. He described the symptoms in gruesome detail -- fourteen days, during four of which he was certain he was going to die. The hospital told him to stay home, nothing to be done for him. His wife and children were asymptomatic, but he had a bleeding rash, a feeling of drowning, racking body aches and cramps that would not let go. He's permanently marked by the experience.

This is a man who ran five miles a day before he caught it -- now he can't make it to the end of the block without wheezing. His doctor says he won't fully recover for a year or more.

Darwin haunts this nation now. Information is the coin of survival. And those who possess the ability to critically think and study the science, and to act rationally and remain balanced in the chaos will have a much higher chance to emerge unscathed.

But those three women with children they are responsible for -- and all the other people who think this is so much media hype, overblown political rhetoric, baseless fear -- risk their lives and their children's lives, and to a certain extent, all of our lives.

The GOP's war on education for the past fifty years is going to kill more Americans than any other force in our history. It may be a difficult and seemingly intangible link to make, but it seems like plain fact to me -- purposefully spreading ignorance for power's sake has never been a long-term strategy for survival for any culture in human history.

Quite the opposite.

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Reply I had to listen to a truly Ignorant conversation at work on Friday. (Original post)
byronius May 23 OP
elleng May 23 #1
Turbineguy May 23 #8
TheBlackAdder May 23 #58
whathehell May 25 #87
stopbush May 23 #2
BigmanPigman May 23 #16
Hekate May 23 #40
StarryNite May 23 #47
Hekate May 23 #59
Tommymac May 23 #57
whathehell May 24 #72
Hekate May 24 #82
whathehell May 24 #85
UpInArms May 24 #77
whathehell May 24 #75
stopbush May 24 #79
whathehell May 24 #80
stopbush May 24 #81
whathehell May 25 #86
malaise May 23 #3
Newest Reality May 23 #4
byronius May 23 #5
LovingA2andMI May 23 #14
bedazzled May 23 #6
Warpy May 23 #7
LymphocyteLover May 23 #9
LizBeth May 23 #11
LymphocyteLover May 23 #52
LizBeth May 23 #53
LizBeth May 23 #10
wnylib May 23 #55
LizBeth May 23 #56
leftinalabama May 23 #12
LuvNewcastle May 23 #28
LittleGirl May 23 #32
seta1950 May 23 #13
Bernardo de La Paz May 23 #15
BigmanPigman May 23 #18
Mars and Minerva May 23 #17
byronius May 23 #44
Mars and Minerva May 24 #66
paleotn May 23 #19
Girard442 May 23 #20
EleanorR May 23 #21
NoMoreRepugs May 23 #39
Pacifist Patriot May 24 #73
CountMyVote4Reality May 23 #22
louis-t May 23 #23
PatSeg May 23 #24
byronius May 23 #64
PatSeg May 24 #65
smirkymonkey May 23 #25
niyad May 23 #26
Texin May 23 #27
Texin May 23 #29
byronius May 23 #43
barbtries May 23 #30
Iggo May 23 #31
BlancheSplanchnik May 23 #33
iluvtennis May 23 #34
Duppers May 23 #35
dawg day May 23 #36
appalachiablue May 23 #37
SleeplessinSoCal May 23 #38
Hekate May 23 #41
lambchopp59 May 23 #42
mountain grammy May 23 #45
ecstatic May 23 #46
Upthevibe May 23 #48
RainCaster May 23 #50
byronius May 23 #61
Upthevibe May 24 #70
RainCaster May 23 #49
OMGWTF May 23 #51
I_UndergroundPanther May 23 #54
byronius May 23 #62
Kitchari May 23 #60
Demovictory9 May 23 #63
Aussie105 May 24 #67
Laura PourMeADrink May 24 #68
Alwaysna May 24 #69
Edwcraig May 24 #71
Woodwizard May 24 #74
chwaliszewski May 24 #76
JudyM May 24 #78
SpankMe May 24 #83
UCmeNdc May 24 #84

Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 03:51 PM

1. 'Darwin haunts this nation now. Information is the coin of survival.

And those who possess the ability to critically think and study the science, and to act rationally and remain balanced in the chaos will have a much higher chance to emerge unscathed. . .

The GOP's war on education for the past fifty years is going to kill more Americans than any other force in our history. It may be a difficult and seemingly intangible link to make, but it seems like plain fact to me -- purposefully spreading ignorance for power's sake has never been a long-term strategy for survival for any culture in human history.'




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Response to elleng (Reply #1)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:07 PM

8. I used to tell my teenage kids....

If you don't use drugs, you're way ahead.

That's old school.

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Response to elleng (Reply #1)

Sat May 23, 2020, 09:34 PM

58. Also, the average I.Q. in the USA is 103, meaning one-half of the population scores below that.

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Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #58)

Mon May 25, 2020, 03:21 PM

87. Lol..So what is your point? That the "average I.Q." outside of the USA

is appreciably higher, or that their "averages" somehow work differently?

Confirmation of either as fact, would, of course, require a link.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 03:54 PM

2. We are a religious nation, which means that our default position in assessing life

stems from non-factual, magical thinking. Religion predisposes us intellectually to believe the absurd, and to embrace the conceit that we are privy to information that the heathens will never see.

We might be on a return to the dark ages.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #2)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:44 PM

16. Bingo!

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Response to stopbush (Reply #2)

Sat May 23, 2020, 06:20 PM

40. America was for a long time a Protestant-majority nation, but Methodists, Presbyterians, ...

...and Episcopalians did NOT scorn education and science. That was for the fundamentalists, a fringe group in the minority.

It was only when conservative power-brokers discovered a way to greater power by using them as willing tools in the culture wars, and at a certain point they rebranded themselves as Evangelicals and got them some mega-churches, well the rest is US history.

That is only a small sketch, but I am 72 and I watched it happen in my lifetime.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #40)

Sat May 23, 2020, 06:54 PM

47. What you said is true.

And it's bizarre how far down that rabbit hole we've gone as a nation in such a relatively short period of time.

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Response to StarryNite (Reply #47)

Sat May 23, 2020, 09:48 PM

59. America always had a strain of anti-intellectualism...

But it was never dominant in the way it has become. We are screwed until it can be returned to its place in the scheme of things.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #40)

Sat May 23, 2020, 09:26 PM

57. +1

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Response to Hekate (Reply #40)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:39 AM

72. Catholics don't either..How 'bout we lose the Broad Brush?

Only a third of Christians identify as "Evangelical" or Fundamentalist.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #72)

Sun May 24, 2020, 01:23 PM

82. Yes on all counts

There's a kind of reflex rejection here at times that I find dismaying and annoying. It can blind us to distinctions that should be made. Christians are not a homogenous group, not even within sects.

I strongly believe in separation of church and state as a foundational principle that protects us all. Betsy DeVos has no business running the Dept of Education as a branch of her church, and members of Opus Dei have no business being on the Supreme Court if they believe they answer primarily to their religious law and not to secular law. I probably don't need to expand on that.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #82)

Sun May 24, 2020, 10:06 PM

85. Correct..

and I appreciate your confirmation of those facts. I'm a strong believer in the separation of church and state as well.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #40)

Sun May 24, 2020, 11:58 AM

77. Irving Kristol ... father of the neocons ...

Said we dont have to follow their religious rules, we just convince them that we are one of theirs, and they will follow us ... kind of paraphrased, and I can no longer find the paper online from which I quote ... but it was seared into my brain when I read it ... it explained so much.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #2)

Sun May 24, 2020, 10:01 AM

75. You mean like most nations?

a littlr more, a little less?

Pleas..Even the "enlightened" institutional atheism of the Soviet Union has, in large part, gone back to Russian Orthodoxy. .Seventy One percent now identify as 'Russian Orthodox....Looks like a LOT of us will be "going back to the Dark Ages"


https://religionandpolitics.org/2018/10/16/russias-journey-from-orthodoxy-to-atheism-and-back-again/

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Response to whathehell (Reply #75)

Sun May 24, 2020, 12:50 PM

79. Wrong.

Is religion important to you?

Country Yes/No
Sweden 17%/83%
Denmark 19%/81%
Norway 22%/78%
Czech Republic 21%/75%

There are dozens more. You know, the enlightened countries.

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Response to stopbush (Reply #79)

Sun May 24, 2020, 01:01 PM

80. Lol..If there are "dozens more"

why could you only find four with relatively small populations?
.Nice try.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #80)

Sun May 24, 2020, 01:03 PM

81. It wasn't necessary to list all of them to disprove your stupid claim.

But here ya go:

This page charts a list of countries by importance of religion.

Contents
1 Methodology
2 Countries
3 See also
4 References
Methodology[edit]
The table below is based upon global Gallup Poll in 2009 research which asked "Is religion important in your daily life?". Percentages for "yes" and "no" answers are listed below; they often do not add up to 100% because some answered "don't know" or did not answer. [1]

Countries[edit]

Country Yes, important[1] No, unimportant[1]
Estonia 16% 84%
Sweden 17% 83%
Denmark 19% 81%
Norway[a] 22% 78%
Czech Republic[a] 21% 75%
Japan 24% 75%
Hong Kong 24% 74%
United Kingdom 27% 73%
Finland[a] 28% 70%
Vietnam 30% 69%
France 30% 69%
Australia[a] 32% 68%
The Netherlands[a] 33% 67%
New Zealand[a] 33% 66%
Belgium[a] 33% 58%
Cuba[a] 34% 64%
Bulgaria[a] 34% 62%
Russia 34% 66%
Belarus 34% 56%
Luxembourg 39% 59%
Hungary 39% 58%
Albania 39% 53%
Latvia 39% 58%
Germany 40% 59%
Uruguay 41% 59%
Switzerland 41% 57%
Canada 42% 57%
Lithuania 42% 49%
South Korea 43% 56%
Kazakhstan 43% 48%
Taiwan[a] 45% 54%
Ukraine 46% 48%
Slovenia 47% 52%
Slovakia[a] 47% 52%
Spain 49% 51%
Azerbaijan 50% 49%
Israel 51% 48%
Serbia 54% 44%
Ireland 54% 46%
Austria[a] 55% 43%
Uzbekistan 59% 38%
Belize[a] 62% 33%
Argentina 65% 34%
United States 69% 31%
Croatia 70% 28%
Chile 70% 29%
Singapore 70% 29%
Jamaica[a] 70% 30%
Montenegro 71% 28%
Greece 71% 28%
Portugal[a] 72% 26%
Italy 72% 25%
Moldova 72% 19%
Kyrgyzstan 72% 25%
Iran[a] 73% 27%
Mexico 73% 25%
Poland 75% 19%
Cyprus 75% 25%
North Macedonia 76% 22%
Botswana[a] 77% 23%
Bosnia and Herzegovina 77% 21%
Venezuela 79% 21%
Costa Rica 79% 20%
Armenia 79% 19%
Turkmenistan 80% 18%
Togo[a] 80% 13%
Georgia 81% 16%
Turkey 82% 15%
Ecuador 82% 17%
Colombia 83% 16%
El Salvador 83% 16%
Peru 84% 14%
Iraq 84% 11%
Nicaragua 84% 15%
Honduras 84% 15%
Romania 84% 12%
South Africa 85% 15%
Puerto Rico[a] 85% 14%
Tajikistan 85% 12%
Haiti[a] 85% 12%
Mozambique[a] 86% 14%
Malta 86% 10%
Brazil 87% 13%
Dominican Republic 87% 13%
Lebanon 87% 12%
Zimbabwe 88% 12%
Cote d'Ivoire 88% 12%
Burkina Faso[a] 88% 12%
Panama 88% 11%
Angola[a] 88% 11%
Guatemala 88% 9%
Tanzania 89% 11%
Bolivia 89% 10%
Syria 89% 9%
India 90% 9%
United Arab Emirates 91% 8%
Kuwait 91% 6%
Namibia[a] 92% 9%
Trinidad and Tobago[a] 92% 8%
Paraguay 92% 8%
Pakistan 96% 4%
State of Palestine 93% 7%
Sudan 93% 7%
Uganda 93% 7%
Madagascar[a] 93% 7%
Benin[a] 93% 7%
Nepal 93% 6%
Tunisia 93% 5%
Saudi Arabia 93% 4%
Central African Republic[a] 94% 6%
Kenya 94% 6%
Liberia[a] 94% 6%
Democratic Republic of the Congo 94% 5%
Bahrain 94% 4%
Ghana 95% 5%
Zambia 95% 5%
Qatar 95% 4%
Algeria 95% 4%
Chad 95% 5%
Rwanda 95% 5%
Republic of the Congo[a] 95% 5%
Mali 95% 3%
Philippines 96% 4%
Cameroon 96% 4%
Malaysia 96% 3%
Nigeria 96% 3%
Cambodia 96% 3%
Senegal 96% 4%
Jordan[a] 96% 4%
Myanmar[a] 97% 3%
Afghanistan 97% 3%
Laos[a] 97% 3%
Guinea[a] 97% 3%
Morocco 97% 2%
Egypt 97% 2%
Comoros 97% 2%
Thailand 97% 2%
Burundi 98% 2%
Djibouti 98% 2%
Mauritania 98% 2%
Sri Lanka 99% 1%
Malawi 99% 1%
Indonesia 99% 1%
Yemen 99% 1%
Niger 100% 0%
Ethiopia 100% 0%
Somalia[a] 100% 0%
Bangladesh 100% 0%
Oman 100% 0%

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Response to stopbush (Reply #81)

Mon May 25, 2020, 02:55 PM

86. Apparently it was, since your stupid response fails

Last edited Mon May 25, 2020, 03:34 PM - Edit history (1)

to support your claim.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 03:55 PM

3. A must read post

Thanks

Rec

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 03:56 PM

4. Denial

I think we get to see more of a common human coping mechanism emerge in times of crisis.

While sometimes ignorance, gullibility and other factors play into the mix, (we are usually painting with a broad brush for the sake of brevity) we know that people can try to displace what frightens them or do their best to resolve their own confirmation biases in order to just feel comfortable or stable.

The same kind of phenomena seems to apply to climate change and all of its implications. When the whole world, or ecosystem is at stake and the time frame for the ramifications and outcomes is increasingly short, some people are capable of looking at the facts and using their own coping mechanisms to deal with the distress and disturbance those facts bring them. They may end up, at the very least, more capable of dealing with the perturbations and crises better because they are aware and maybe more prepared.

Those who choose denial choose to enter a psychologically protective bubble, (though it may be what we call delusional or fantasy-prone) and there are various ways they create and reinforce that bubble, (beliefs, opinions, conspiracy theories, etc.). Now, one could say that the bubble of denial can be more comfortable and adaptive, but it could also be seen as a very weak, (as in soap bubble) method because the bubble can easily pop and the stark and vivid results of what is actually going on can be a very difficult and rude awakening which then can cause mental distress, breakdowns, destructive behavior, etc., or at the very least, would require a sufficient amount of time to sink in order to deal with and adapt to it.

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #4)

Sat May 23, 2020, 03:57 PM

5. +1

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Response to Newest Reality (Reply #4)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:38 PM

14. +2

Denial is a STRONG force within itself.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 03:57 PM

6. Beautifully stated and terribly sad

Life threatening ignorance. I believe thought is healing, and pray each day for those who are so misguided

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:04 PM

7. Whistling through the graveyard

is how a lot of people deal with threat, both real and imaginary. They're denying this because they can't see, smell, feel or taste it and minimizing it keeps panic down.

Anything that comes out of that festering lump of adipose tissue in the White House is deeply conforting to them.

This epidemic is still in the early stage. It will get worse. Pity them.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:11 PM

9. I feel your pain... this is so distressing

we seem to be moving backwards in age of excess information no less

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Reply #9)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:23 PM

11. It is because Trump and Republicans has so inundated us with lies, we approach everything given us a

untruths. For the first time, institutions that are responsible for our health and safety cannot be trust because of their misinformation campaign to get along with Trump. It has been done purposely. This is the result.

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Response to LizBeth (Reply #11)

Sat May 23, 2020, 08:12 PM

52. Yes-- but the fact the so many powerful people let him get away with it, especially

the rightwing media who actively promote his lies and disinfo, is supremely fucked up.

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Response to LymphocyteLover (Reply #52)

Sat May 23, 2020, 08:34 PM

53. Of course it is not only Trump. RW, Christian Coaltion, Republicans have spouted lies

for a long long time and Trump has enabled them to do it more bluntly in our face than ever before. CDC, DOJ.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:21 PM

10. When listening to three, it feels like there are so many. But at 40% of the nation that makes for a

lot of bodies out there that will be saying this stupid shit. What scares me most about this virus is I am all on my own. I have no one that can help me during the time, and I cannot imagine going thru this by myself unable to do the simplest of life needs, not to mention taking the dog out two or three times a day. I just do not know what I would do.

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Response to LizBeth (Reply #10)

Sat May 23, 2020, 08:57 PM

55. I'm in the same situation. There are

more of us than you may think. I mentioned my concern about my cat to a friend who said that if it became necessary, she could take the cat, so there is that relief for me.

But, on a day to day basis, there is no one who could help me in my home. I have some frozen foods prepared for heating up if necessary, and plenty of water and juice on hand, but if I got too weak to handle those things, I don't know what I'd do.

On the other hand, due to age and underlying conditions, I would probably be in the hospital soon after getting sick. But in that case, I would probably not survive at all.

So my primary goal right now is prevention and survival until there is a vaccine or reliable, effective treatment drug, preferrably both.

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Response to wnylib (Reply #55)

Sat May 23, 2020, 09:06 PM

56. Right there with you.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:28 PM

12. I too feel your pain.

I live in South Alabama and your 3 coworkers sound exactly like what I hear from most people here. In Mobile,Al where I live, our Covid cases are exploding and the vast majority do not wear masks in public and our restaurants, beaches, skating rinks, bars etc are fully open. It is truly disgusting. If you try to talk to people about wearing masks they go into a rage. So you are not alone. May common sense and common courtesy prevail in the end.... Vote

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Response to leftinalabama (Reply #12)

Sat May 23, 2020, 05:35 PM

28. It's much the same over here in Gulfport, MS.

People weren't wearing masks at all at first but as the number of cases climbed, a lot of people started doing the right thing. Now that they've relaxed a lot of the rules, people are doing things as if the virus never came. I know better than to ask someone why they aren't wearing a mask, but they had better not say anything to me when I wear mine. They will get an earfull.

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Response to leftinalabama (Reply #12)

Sat May 23, 2020, 05:47 PM

32. Welcome to DU.

I have an uncle down in Gulf Shores and he has a lovely place hes updating since he retired. Love it down there.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:28 PM

13. Me too

Ive been working with people like that for 15 years yesterday I finally said something do you think almost 100.000 deaths is not serious enough for you guys , or are you now experts? they both stayed very quiet.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:40 PM

15. So many people stop thinking when they reach a conclusion or are handed one on media

... instead of proceeding to try to find flaws with it.

For example, a lot of superficial thinking is based on the idea that if the rates of infection are going down, then it is defeated and relaxing everything wide open is not going to make problems.

Another example: "Hospitals are empty" is because elective surgeries are cancelled and people are suffering with new and existing conditions rather than risk going to hospitals or doctors or clinics. But many people stop thinking on the point as soon as they hear "hospitals are empty".

Even intelligent people (PhDs and all) can be LAZY THINKERS.

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Response to Bernardo de La Paz (Reply #15)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:46 PM

18. "Lazy thinkers" is an accurate term.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:45 PM

17. Dear Byronius, I reprinted your letter on my FaceBook page and attributed it to you...

I hope you don't mind. Let me know if it's a problem or if you would like to use a different name. B.

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Response to Mars and Minerva (Reply #17)

Sat May 23, 2020, 06:38 PM

44. Honored.

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Response to byronius (Reply #44)

Sun May 24, 2020, 12:23 AM

66. It was a hit on my private political page...

It started a lively discussion (all democrats) so many thanks.
We are a small group. Many of us are affiliated with OFA in NJ. Any time you are looking for a friendly place to re-post your work...let us know.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:52 PM

19. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:52 PM

20. Whenever I hear a story like this, I get the mad urge...

...to roleplay a convo that they would find insane. Make "plans" with complicit co-worker to recruit people into the Satanic Temple. Talk about how Soros is spreading big money around to foment insurrection and how coworker should get in on it.

It's mad. Would end badly. Still.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:53 PM

21. Only 8% of Americans see no benefit to wearing a mask

I'm sorry to hear your coworkers are part of this small group of nutjobs.

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Response to EleanorR (Reply #21)

Sat May 23, 2020, 06:10 PM

39. 90% of that 8% might be here in Florida.

Never ever saw so many people so proud to be ignorant.

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Response to NoMoreRepugs (Reply #39)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:48 AM

73. Same here. Wearing a mask in Brevard county puts you decidedly in a minority position.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:56 PM

22. Thank you for sharing as you do. Nicely said.

Im glad you have a colleague that shares your observations.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:57 PM

23. I hate to say this, but the only way some people will

wake up is to put videos of people suffering from this on the news. Every day. Show them gasping for air, show the rashes, show the faces of people wracked with pain. Meanwhile, as long a republicans insist on gathering in large groups without masks, maybe they will kill themselves off and not take too may of us with them.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:58 PM

24. Thanks for posting

Being you are working with some nonbelievers, is your work place safe? Are co-workers practicing social distancing?

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #24)

Sat May 23, 2020, 11:51 PM

64. Yes. Upper management is on it.

My boss is just missing certain circuits. I knew that, but this was -- beyond. It was a mild shock for me.

A recording of the conversation would have resulted in dismissal. But I'd prefer to deal with it on a more personal level. I don't think she's a bad person, just a new manager and not well-read. No history, no logic, no depth. She's prone to popular misconceptions.

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Response to byronius (Reply #64)

Sun May 24, 2020, 12:09 AM

65. There's a whole of "popular misconceptions"

going around these days. At a time when we have almost any information at our fingertips and people are more misinformed than ever. Glad to hear your workplace is safe though. I know it must be hard for a lot of people who have to work, not knowing what they might be exposed to and then possibly bringing it home.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 04:59 PM

25. +1000

Thanks for your post. It's so depressing to hear otherwise intelligent, educated people spouting this nonsense. I expect it from the uneducated Trumpers, but when it comes from people who you think should know better, it's shocking, to say the least.

Before we left the office to start working from home in March, I heard similar things from many of my co-workers and I just had to tune out because I didn't want to get in an argument with them. And we live in Boston, which is one of the hardest hit areas in the country. I really don't know what it's going to take to wake people up. I suppose only when it hits them personally will it change their minds about things.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 05:23 PM

26. "It really pisses me off that I am morally obligated to save your ignorant asses along with my

Own."

You probably cannot use this line in a workplace, but I have used it other places. They do take offense, for some reason.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 05:32 PM

27. How much of this is fear being expressed by magical thinking?

I'm sure some of it is, at least. The other part of it - a large part - is the kind of ignorance that's been cultivated in the so-called cult of personality as displayed by the likes of tRump, the Kardashians and Mama June, not to mention the Fux cultists who've had more than twenty years of hard indoctrination by Murdochian philosophy.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 05:37 PM

29. Byronius, how old was this co-worker who's getting married?

This sounds like a rather young woman, someone who is not very confident of her beliefs. Or a desperate aging woman who will bend her own thoughts in order to latch onto the last chance at marriage (even though she will now be tethered to four kids she's made plain she never wanted anyway, or any kids ever).

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Response to Texin (Reply #29)

Sat May 23, 2020, 06:36 PM

43. The latter.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 05:37 PM

30. Don't forget,

these willfully ignorant, blase, selfish jerks will endanger your life. A co-worker had it in CA and was sick for 3 whole weeks, as sick as he's ever been. Incidentally he's a foxbot and is disgusted by Newsom's insistence on putting public health over commerce. Even after saying, "I'm happy to be alive." This man is an MD.

I hope you are able to keep a large distance, obtain a medical grade mask, and disinfect liberally at your job.

Maybe you could anonymously print this out and leave it in the break room, by the printer, etc.

https://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2020/04/03/hold-the-line-coronavirus-jonathan-smith?fbclid=IwAR0BvbGGUMahs1Dph-Zjxfn6daw4XI-wuReKP6fydIpRyeq8aXCAh2715Ng

I'm worried for you now. And others forced to return to the office. Can you work remotely??

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 05:38 PM

31. I don't miss that.

Working at home since the hunker down.

Lotta that shit in the week before we took our offices home, though.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 05:50 PM

33. I can only say, what a powerful post.

Id have been absolutely shaking if I were in your position.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 05:50 PM

34. Dr Martin Luther King Jr said it best, "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere

ignorance and conscientious stupidity."

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 05:53 PM

35. K&R. So well stated

I had to read your post aloud to hubby who's working at the kitchen table.

I've managed, I think, to enlighten a couple of CT's; at least I made them think by sending info they had not seen or thought of - they were actually low-info dems (difficult to imagine but they exist ).

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 05:57 PM

36. I heard on DSR that 42% of Republicans believe that the virus was invented by Bill Gates

something something something implant a chip into us all because.

It's not even a Trump conspiracy theory. It's more insane even than Trump would say (though I'm sure he retweets it).

42%.

And probably more than half of them have MS Office on their computers, and are now throwing them into the bathtub because. Implant. Chip. Gates.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 06:06 PM

37. Exactly why the media, education, 'intellectualism'

greed and selfishness are high on the hit list for 50+ years

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 06:07 PM

38. I suspect the perceived virus connection to climate change I keep coming across...

...caused a no holds barred reaction from the right to trash truth and science.

We were in the "information age". We now exist in the "disinformation age".

I don't see how epidemics are connected to climate, but articles like this are misleading.

https://www.examiner.net/opinion/20200522/other-voices-virus-offers-lesson-on-risk-of-ignoring-climate-change

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 06:24 PM

41. Thank you.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 06:33 PM

42. Compensatory denial. I keep hearing some state wild statistical downplaying as well.

Once it hits home, one of their own suffers the raging case of COVID, reality bites. Then, much like the DABDA grief reaction: 1. "I can't believe she died". 2. I'm so pissed at that doctor 3. God, take me if you'll bring back so and so. 4. I can't live without her, I'm so down. 5. She's not coming back, I'll have to live my life.
Many of the sort who aren't abject Trumpers may go through some phases, but with cases surging in the "We don't wear masks" areas of the country, so many have a gobsmack of reality to brick wall into.
It's easier to deny, ignore than than face our current reality.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 06:46 PM

45. Excellent post!

like spending time with my in-laws. but also so very depressing.

Yes, Darwin haunts this nation now ....

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 06:49 PM

46. Yep, it's all crashing down now. The only way to slow

our pending demise would be to forcefully stop all RW propaganda, but that's pretty much impossible, thanks to our Constitution.

It's funny how many gaps and loopholes are in that document with regard to the president and guns, but there's almost no wiggle room when it comes to speech.

Perhaps it's time for a different approach with regard to the loudest rethug assholes. Payments? Legal blackmail? Time to get creative!

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 07:09 PM

48. byronius....

What state are you in?

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Response to Upthevibe (Reply #48)

Sat May 23, 2020, 07:16 PM

50. Confusion?

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Response to Upthevibe (Reply #48)

Sat May 23, 2020, 11:28 PM

61. CA.

Sadly.

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Response to byronius (Reply #61)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:20 AM

70. As hard as it is for me to believe

I realize there are some red parts in our state. I think it's mainly in some of Orange County and then up in the Fresno area seems to be where a lot of them are (the Devin Nunes crowd).

I'm so happy to be in L.A. but even here every so often you'll hear a trumpster or about one...

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 07:15 PM

49. I hate to say it, but your boss is an idiot

All the college time in the world will not excuse her sad lack of critical thinking skills.

If you doubt what I say, look at all those degreed lawyers sucking up to DFT's backside. Think about all those years of law school going to waste. Your boss is no different. She hates kids, but will marry into 4 of them?

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 07:59 PM

51. Just wow! At least you know there's one kindred spirit at work.

Kudos for your Abbie Hoffman icon. I got to buy him a beer when he was in Cleveland in 1988 giving a talk about his life at a bar in the Flats (he committed suicide in 1989). He was a nice, gentle man, and autographed my dogeared copy of "Steal this Book" that I actually stole from my older brother -- LOL! It is one of my most cherished possessions.

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Response to OMGWTF (Reply #51)

Sat May 23, 2020, 08:51 PM

54. I grew up reading Abby Hoffman's books

Steal this book was my favorite along with revolution for the hell of it.

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Response to OMGWTF (Reply #51)

Sat May 23, 2020, 11:37 PM

62. He had a profound effect on my life.

Met him at the Kerouac Conference in -- 82? Shook his hand at the Boulderado. Went to see him speak a bunch of times, read every word he ever wrote, and wrote an 800 page novel with him as one of the main protagonists.

Still, to have shared a beer with him -- wow indeed. I'm not big on hero-worship, but I come close with Abbie. It's less about the man than the idea -- small-s socialism, lifting up the downtrodden, basic fairness and the best of the American Dream -- but his ability to bedevil Richard Nixon toe to toe was nothing less than heroic.

I still wonder about the suicide. It's possible, but George H. W. Bush had just taken office, as I believe -- and there were other questionable circumstances. We'll never know. But.

I can imagine what he'd say about all this.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 10:03 PM

60. The disinformation

And brainwashing are working, tragically

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sat May 23, 2020, 11:44 PM

63. well.. it's nice you had a coworker with a brain to approach and walk out with you

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 04:36 AM

67. Confidently spouting ignorance

is a way of life for some people.

It's a coping mechanism. Discount the things that scare you and may harm you, so that your world stays warm and fuzzy and you know everything will be ok.

Major look of surprise and disappointment when the world shows itself to be an ugly, non caring place. Hopefully, the revelation will not be fatal. But if it is, there is always a Darwin Award that can come their way.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 07:44 AM

68. Just curious, what kind of business are you in? Open

Now with people in close proximity in cubes? Near the Bronx? I know banks had to stay open in a limited basis, but many get to work from home.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 07:50 AM

69. I live in a deep red county in a red state.

It can be a lonely place for someone who values knowledge , education and truth. Others probably see me as a know it all. It gets lonely without someone to share a meaningful conversation . I've concluded that most people don't really want to hear the truth and history is over their heads as well as what is really going on. I'm thankful to have DU.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:37 AM

71. It is not enough to not engage

What if you had just said

"a former business associate of mine (a CEO from the Bronx) called me and told me he'd gone through Covid in March. He described the symptoms in gruesome detail -- fourteen days, during four of which he was certain he was going to die. The hospital told him to stay home, nothing to be done for him. His wife and children were asymptomatic, but he had a bleeding rash, a feeling of drowning, racking body aches and cramps that would not let go. He's permanently marked by the experience.

This is a man who ran five miles a day before he caught it -- now he can't make it to the end of the block without wheezing. His doctor says he won't fully recover for a year or more."

And walk away. We need to personalize this. And we need to stand up and engage. This is life and death.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 09:53 AM

74. It is frustrating

My Daughter who has a 3 month old boyfriends family are trump supporters and are not taking things seriously his grandmother who is only in her late 60's is on oxygen from heavy smoking. They have gatherings one of the brothers regularly comes up from NYC the biggest hot spot here.

Meanwhile my wife and I stay put and take all precautions as all of our friends do also.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 10:34 AM

76. Read this article. It may explain why people are the way they are.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 12:30 PM

78. Maybe consider dropping a copy of the front page today's NYT on her desk when no one's around.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 02:15 PM

83. Great narrative. I've had similar experiences where I work.

Coworkers who are college educated, skeptical of religion, understand climate change - yet, still saying Trump is the greatest president in their lifetime. I can't figure it out.

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Response to byronius (Original post)

Sun May 24, 2020, 03:34 PM

84. I am hearing the same thing from people. It seems Trump's message is being pushed all over FB.

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