General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe question no one is asking. Why did the DOD go along with this?
There is not one single chance any of this came from Trump. The man can barely keep his pants straight, let alone Iran and Iraq.
So the whole plan for this came from somewhere else. The DOD had to get it done. And they did. This tells me the DOD wanted this, otherwise there would have been push back. We'd have had someone high up retire in protest by now.
First we had the mess in Syria, leaving the Kurds to die. Now this in Iraq.
WTF is happening in the DOD? What is the end game?
If these people are going to murder in America's name then they better damn well tell us why. Get your ass in front of Congress and explain yourselves.
evertonfc
(1,713 posts)gives a list of options from good to worst. The President chooses one. The NYT has reported on this extensively The last 48 hours.
lame54
(35,360 posts)sandensea
(21,738 posts)shadowmayor
(1,325 posts)Show me General who refuses to bomb a school full of children and I'll show you a retired General. Show me a General who bombed 2 schools and I'll show you a man who's getting promoted. Bomb the hell out of a country and it's 4 stars and a cush job at Raytheon or CNN.
Retired military here = and if I told you how our commanders actually behave, what they say and what they reward, you'd lock the doors and cry for weeks.
Here's a clue folks, we are the bad guys. Just ask Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, and next up - Iran.
Martin Eden
(12,888 posts)Did they really think would make a rational choice?
RVN VET71
(2,700 posts)If the DOD tries to sneak out that exculpatory nonsense the DOD will fail. They either knew what Trump would pick or they are so grossly incompetent they should step down and take a job protecting an abandoned shopping mall.
walkingman
(7,711 posts)what they do. Your right it is up to us to let our chicken shit leaders know their actions are unacceptable.
DURHAM D
(32,619 posts)They always respond that he is their CIC. iows - Don't blame us.
Baitball Blogger
(46,787 posts)My understanding is that officers only owe an oath to the Constitution.
stopdiggin
(11,419 posts)for what THEY believe to be true. It rarely does. Military people follow orders. There is no constitutional exception regarding unpopular orders .. or incompetent CICs.
And .. if you're now reaching for your pen to fire back some screed on illegal or "unlawful orders" .. DON'T. In the U.S. military this is settled ground.
Baitball Blogger
(46,787 posts)I know it's settled ground, but there is a lot with the military that needs to be changed.
KentuckyWoman
(6,701 posts)We've seen people get pushed out for refusing to do what amounts to murder of unarmed children and grandmas. We've seen soldiers who followed those orders spend the next 50 years struggling with life or committing suicide later.
Where the road block has to be is at the very top. The few individuals with personal access to the President that translate orders downward. These are the individuals who we hope will start calling members of congress to put a stop to a maniac trying to use the military for personal gain.
If Trump calls up pentagon and says, we have proof Pelosi is planning a terrorist attack on innocent Americans, take her out. Then I would hope we don't have a Military that blindly follows orders. There has to be some kind of back channel to stop these sorts of things and I believe there is.
So while I certainly expect a war machine to be very willing and able to start wars, I don't believe for one second the leaders at the very top are eager to get into pointless war just for war's sake. There is a reason they are following orders like this that the rest of us don't understand. I'd really know to know what those reasons are, but doubt we'll find out.
paleotn
(18,015 posts)officers or enlisted personnel, take essentially the same oath, be it the Oath of Enlistment or the Oath of Office upon commissioning or the oath for National Guard officers....to protect and defend the Constitution and the Constitution only. A part of that Constitution states our military is at all times subject to civil authority. And that's a good thing. However, there's the whole concept of unlawful orders on which volumes have been written and is also covered in the Uniform Code of Military Justice, so, like most human endeavors, it's complicated.
Baitball Blogger
(46,787 posts)Non-commissioned soldiers do an oath the Constitution and the president, in that order. But commissioned soldiers say an oath to the Constitution. Not the president.
in2herbs
(2,947 posts)nuclear button when they are so clearly supporting Trump on this assination. People have commented that our military couldn't have reacted to prevent it anyway because Trump's order was a lawful order and to disobey a lawful order would subject them to court martial.
Does no one in the military or Administration know the difference between a lawful order and an immoral act?
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)Its ours.
in2herbs
(2,947 posts)we are voting for. IMO this is why our founding fathers required senate confirmation for people in certain positions, people and positions that voters do not pull the lever and vote for (or against). These people and positions, along with the military, are the ones that are supposed to keep check on the persons that we do vote for.
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)relayerbob
(6,561 posts)We didn't have an organized central military then.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)if for no other reason than many of the Founding Fathers didnt even believe in the concept of a standing military force.
Nay
(12,051 posts)charged with stopping this crazy person. But they like what he's doing. There are no sane people left.
I get it, I get it, this country voted him in, theoretically, through the electoral college, but the populace did NOT vote this monster in.
stopdiggin
(11,419 posts)a duly elected Commander in Chief. (and we should NOT want them to if we intend to preserve a democracy)
Posters are right .. this falls on the American VOTER. Not the military.
PatrickforO
(14,608 posts)That's the problem.
aikoaiko
(34,186 posts)Iliyah
(25,111 posts)Who is one of shithole's henchman . .
babylonsister
(171,113 posts)dalton99a
(81,709 posts)and his deputy is Grover Norquist's younger brother
erronis
(15,485 posts)I hope all of these evil scorpions will start taking each other out.
Unfortunately, they'll take out a lot of good people along the way.
duforsure
(11,885 posts)Some resigned recently , and now a Pentagon official let it be known there was no imminent danger, and trumps lying. When trump attacks them all , and threatens them it'll show his intent, and he was well aware of it being illegally done.
dewsgirl
(14,961 posts)the Pentagon, he was furious...they had asked for his loyalty and it was a factor in his resignation.
Farmer-Rick
(10,244 posts)Are just as political as most people.
If they kiss up to the right guy they can get promoted. If they say the right thing they may get their next star. To think that the people we train to fight wars should be the ones to stop wars from ever occurring is kind of backwards.
It's the civilian leadership that historically puts the brakes on fighting. But our civilian leadership has absolutely failed us.
Besides Trumpy Dumpy can go through the military leadership like a kid in a toy box. He throws out those leaders on top who disagrees with him (or they resign or don't bother to compete for a position) until he gets to the bottom of the box where all the broken ones are. There is bound to be 1 or 2 that will do what Dumpy wants.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,931 posts)They are also not allowed to think for themselves and conclude an order might be illegal.
The Nuremberg Trials basically concluded that "I was only following orders" was not a defense. However, that's exactly what is going on now.
Blaukraut
(5,695 posts)KPN
(15,683 posts)Oh, and I agree fully with your sentiment on this.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)They may have been shocked when he chose this option, but if they hadn't proposed it to him, it would not have happened.
2naSalit
(87,012 posts)Is that the military or a contractor via the CIA or is it still the CIA?
PS. Don't forget, Pompeo was head of CIA first.
erronis
(15,485 posts)tirebiter
(2,539 posts)That is not a settled issue. Stupid, sure, really stupid, it destroys what containment has been achieved.
stopdiggin
(11,419 posts)for at least a generation now. It's not illegal according to the military. This argument goes nowhere.
chowder66
(9,112 posts)not viable.... if they were so shocked.
evilhime
(326 posts)IronLionZion
(45,680 posts)Fifth Pentagon official announces resignation in seven days
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/475205-fifth-pentagon-official-announces-resignation-in-seven-days
The ones who stayed are probably Trump loyalists. There were definitely people who wanted Soleimani dead, and it's not too hard to get Trump to approve it.
Cognitive_Resonance
(1,546 posts)buffoon like Trump in office is the ease with which he can be manipulated to advance corrupt agendas.
Was the killing really a "spur of the moment" opportunity as is being portrayed, or was this a much more premeditated or even orchestrated assassination.
KPN
(15,683 posts)and some key media like Rachel. Be patient.
KentuckyWoman
(6,701 posts)I never think of this board as effective as far as bringing things to the top. My voice isn't much but this is the best place I ever found to yell.
I really hope there are people who can make a difference that monitor places like this to see what's brewing.
Roy Rolling
(6,947 posts)Sorry, every soldier in a war zone may be an honorable person, but whoever sent the tweet ...The president made us do it is a disgrace.
I remind everyone of Trumps military expertise.
mopinko
(70,395 posts)there is no reason for a plan like this to be on the table, in front of that idiot, if someone powerful didnt want it there.
that stupid 52 for each hostage crap was prolly on the table, too. they had to put some sort of a what if in there in case someone was sane enough to ask what came next. oh, we hit them back harder.
yup, played.