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elocs

(22,569 posts)
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 10:40 PM Oct 2019

This message was self-deleted by its author

This message was self-deleted by its author (elocs) on Tue Oct 22, 2019, 08:43 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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This message was self-deleted by its author (Original Post) elocs Oct 2019 OP
Based on economic data. Many Americans consider the blm Oct 2019 #1
No, they don't. Most Americans have very short memories and pay AJT Oct 2019 #28
SAY GOODBYE to your and everyone else's healthcare, social security & medicare. CousinIT Oct 2019 #2
From the looks at it... Newest Reality Oct 2019 #30
It won't hold together up until the election Farmer-Rick Oct 2019 #3
The economy was good in 2000 Buzz cook Oct 2019 #4
'The economy was good in 2000' Celerity Oct 2019 #5
Growth from 1990 to 2018 Buzz cook Oct 2019 #11
GDP grew by 4.1% which was the last time we saw 4% growth per annum DemocratSinceBirth Oct 2019 #45
+1000 smirkymonkey Oct 2019 #6
Actually Gore won the popular vote. The Supremes elected Bush when they stopped the counting. So wasupaloopa Oct 2019 #32
"unless there is a surge in voter turnout" caraher Oct 2019 #7
No one bdamomma Oct 2019 #18
Certainly the economy plays a roll. We have never experienced a traitorous squatter in the WH either Thekaspervote Oct 2019 #8
That's an excellent piece and makes several of the same points I've made. Garrett78 Oct 2019 #19
Vigilance, donate, active activism, educate yourself and others... pbmus Oct 2019 #9
Yes...the odds are in his favor statistically LeftInTX Oct 2019 #10
We need to vote in huge numbers Joinfortmill Oct 2019 #12
This is why we have to get our act together Liberal In Texas Oct 2019 #13
Look on the bright side. If tRUMP resigns we won't have to beat him. At the polls anyway... abqtommy Oct 2019 #14
Yes, it will be a coin toss election. tman Oct 2019 #15
Dullard Trump will continue to be his own worst enemy. A tiny detail oasis Oct 2019 #16
And just wait until we have a nominee All the propaganda GOP /Trump can buy lunasun Oct 2019 #17
This is complete bullshit. NanceGreggs Oct 2019 #20
Bingo... pbmus Oct 2019 #21
Right on, I agree with Nance100% CatMor Oct 2019 #26
Thank you Nance! FakeNoose Oct 2019 #33
+1 2naSalit Oct 2019 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Oct 2019 #22
Assuming the economy doesn't take a crap before Nov 2020 NickB79 Oct 2019 #23
This may apply in a 'normal' election. 2020 will not be a 'normal' election. spanone Oct 2019 #24
Exactly Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2019 #50
A formerly middle-of-the-road family member is rabidly pro-Trump now... SMC22307 Oct 2019 #25
I'd say that family member is BS-ing. It's not the 401(k). Mister Ed Oct 2019 #29
It doesn't matter what charts say. It's his perception. SMC22307 Oct 2019 #37
Aye. Spot-on. n/t Mister Ed Oct 2019 #39
Thx. What awaits SS and Medicare is keeping me up at night... SMC22307 Oct 2019 #40
and like 2016 he is still headline news 24/7 IcyPeas Oct 2019 #41
Yep, every one of them will vote. That's what terrifies me... SMC22307 Oct 2019 #43
You have to add the spectre of impeachment though. Normally a good economy... brush Oct 2019 #27
Maybe... EarlG Oct 2019 #31
Some say they were right in 2016 forthemiddle Oct 2019 #34
The next paragraph of the article... EarlG Oct 2019 #38
It pays to read the article! forthemiddle Oct 2019 #42
It also has these 2 paragraphs: Garrett78 Oct 2019 #47
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Oct 2019 #36
That Model had Hillary winning in 2016. DemocratSinceBirth Oct 2019 #44
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Oct 2019 #46
Here's a one variable model that is perfect. DemocratSinceBirth Oct 2019 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Oct 2019 #56
this is a horribly flawed method of predicting an election......... Takket Oct 2019 #48
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Oct 2019 #57
but that's they point.......... there is nothing normal about this election Takket Oct 2019 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Oct 2019 #62
BARING A TURNOUT SURGE MFM008 Oct 2019 #51
I do too. If not we as a nation are doomed. dewsgirl Oct 2019 #53
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Oct 2019 #58
If Trump survives the impeachment he will win in 2020. Kablooie Oct 2019 #52
I want to see the math that supports his re-election lettucebe Oct 2019 #54
no shit .. evertonfc Oct 2019 #55
If he is removed from office orangecrush Oct 2019 #60
Trump cheated to win in 2016. Joe941 Oct 2019 #61

blm

(113,052 posts)
1. Based on economic data. Many Americans consider the
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 10:49 PM
Oct 2019

economy now to be a continuation of Obama’s turnaround. By spring those sectors harmed by Trump’s policies should become apparent.

AJT

(5,240 posts)
28. No, they don't. Most Americans have very short memories and pay
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 11:14 AM
Oct 2019

little attention to anything going on outside of their own lives. Many Americans will vote their pocketbook or church.

CousinIT

(9,241 posts)
2. SAY GOODBYE to your and everyone else's healthcare, social security & medicare.
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 10:54 PM
Oct 2019

Because it will ALL. BE. GONE. by 2021 if that sonofabitch gets back in.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
30. From the looks at it...
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 11:16 AM
Oct 2019

I would say that the impact may be all-inclusive.

Say goodbye to just about everything we hold dear if the pattern continues. What I mean is that if his behavior and the mindset around him continues unabated what will remain when it comes to freedom, democracy or anything that is not relative to an Oligarchical and Theocratic domination of the many by the few?

What will we chew with when all of our teeth get kicked out from this barrage?

Farmer-Rick

(10,163 posts)
3. It won't hold together up until the election
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 10:57 PM
Oct 2019

Too many signs things will be crashing before the election.

And many people never had a recovery and don't see any good in their economy. Many of those folks voted for the traitor because their economy sucked so much they wanted to shake things up. Yet Traitor Trump has done nothing to improve their economy.

Buzz cook

(2,471 posts)
4. The economy was good in 2000
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 11:01 PM
Oct 2019

And one of the architects of that economy, Al Gore, was kicked out. It ain't just the economy.

I'd like to remind folks that this economy isn't good for everyone. Its mostly good for the wealthy and corporations. So the usual economic indicators don't tell the whole story.
The minimum wages is decades out of date. Worker compensation is stagnant.
Health care and housing are taking up an increasing portion of working families incomes.

If democrats can point these things out they have a winning narrative.

As usual the main stumbling block for democrats in any election is the media. This time around there is no Clinton for them to unite against. So the media will only be slightly pro Trump instead of totally in the bag for him.

Of course we still have to work hard to make the margin too large for the republicans to steal the election. But we shouldn't worry about things that aren't as important as they once were.

Celerity

(43,341 posts)
5. 'The economy was good in 2000'
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 11:18 PM
Oct 2019

Erm, dot com bubble burst/NASDAQ crash?

The burst of the stock market bubble occurred in the form of the NASDAQ crash in March 2000. Growth in gross domestic product slowed considerably in the third quarter of 2000 to the lowest rate since a contraction in the first quarter of 1992.







Buzz cook

(2,471 posts)
11. Growth from 1990 to 2018
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 11:58 PM
Oct 2019

Notice the bar at 2000 is only slightly lower than 1999. The economy didn't go into recession till 2001, it was still growing in 2000.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/188165/annual-gdp-growth-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

The Dow dropped 6.1 in 2000 but compared to the previous years it wasn't an indication of a fundamentally failing economy.



https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-state-of-americas-middle-class-in-eight-charts/
Middle class incomes were still raising in 2000. Chart #1
2000 was also the year that the fewest people had to depend on part time jobs. Chart #4
Families were saving at their greatest rate. Chart # 7Family net worth was still growing. Chart # 8.

If you worked for a living, the Clinton years were great. They were even better if your money worked for you.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
45. GDP grew by 4.1% which was the last time we saw 4% growth per annum
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 01:52 PM
Oct 2019
 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
6. +1000
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 11:18 PM
Oct 2019
 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
32. Actually Gore won the popular vote. The Supremes elected Bush when they stopped the counting. So
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 11:36 AM
Oct 2019

first sentence is wrong.

caraher

(6,278 posts)
7. "unless there is a surge in voter turnout"
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 11:27 PM
Oct 2019

GOTV

That is all...

bdamomma

(63,845 posts)
18. No one
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 12:52 AM
Oct 2019

must sit out this next election...…….no one. We are fighting for the soul of our country, isn't that what Chairman Cummings said. Let's not let him down.

Thekaspervote

(32,762 posts)
8. Certainly the economy plays a roll. We have never experienced a traitorous squatter in the WH either
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 11:31 PM
Oct 2019

These are unusual times. IMHO models don’t really tell the story.

For Some more hopeful but realistic thoughts on the 2020 election seemthe link below

https://cnu.edu/wasoncenter/2019/07/01-2020-election-forecast/

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
19. That's an excellent piece and makes several of the same points I've made.
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 01:41 AM
Oct 2019
By and large, I don’t expect that the specific nominee the Democratic electorate chooses will matter all that much unless it ends up being a disruptor like Bernie Sanders.

Indeed, the only massive restructuring I might have to make to this forecast involves a significant upheaval like the entrance of a well-funded Independent candidate such as Howard Schultz into the general election....Other potential significant disruptions might be a ground war with Iran, an economic recession, or a terrorist attack on the scale of 9/11. Otherwise, the country's hyperpartisan and polarized environment has largely set the conditions of the 2020 election in stone....on Election Day Donald Trump will earn the vote of somewhere around 90% of self-identified Republicans. And as 2018 demonstrated, Republicans will increase their turnout rate over 2016. This, combined with a floor for Trump among Independents of around 38% (because of right-leaning Independents) and an infusion of cash that will dwarf his 2016 efforts, Trump has a floor that is at least theoretically competitive for reelection and will force Democrats to compete hard to win the presidency. The polarized era doesn’t produce Reagan Era Electoral College landslide maps.


My biggest concern is that because desperate people take desperate action, we are likely to see more voter suppression efforts than ever before...and even greater foreign influence than we saw in 2016. I'm convinced that the reason Trump is increasingly brazen in his corruption is to normalize it as we head into next year's election. And, as the author suggested, the days of a candidate walking away with 400+ electoral votes are long gone. 2008 was a landslide by today's standards, which means we can't get too comfortable.

On the other hand, we won't be nominating a polarizing figure who has been the target of vicious attacks for a quarter of a century. And Trump is no longer new or as much of an unknown quantity, so there will be fewer casual "I'll give him a shot/he won't win anyway/both candidates suck" voters. Someone with a "strongly approve" number in the high 20s and a "strongly disapprove" number that's almost twice as high shouldn't have much of a chance at re-election, even with the electoral college in place and even with a fairly steady economy. Again, though, we're dealing with the Republican Mafia.

First, and probably most important, is the profound misunderstanding by, well, almost everyone, as to how he won Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania in the first place. Ask anyone, and they will describe Trump’s 2016 Midwestern triumph as a product of white, working class voters swinging away from the Democrats based on the appeal of Trump’s economic populist messaging.


I wouldn't say "almost everyone," as myself and many others have been railing against that bogus narrative for nearly 3 years. But it's true, sadly, that far, far too many people (in the media and all across the political spectrum) have been (and still are) pushing the demonstrably false "economic anxiety/Clinton focused too much on identity politics" narrative. Even after all of the articles that make clear how false that story is, such as this one and this one.

And it wasn't Obama-Trump voters that were Clinton's downfall either (regarding Obama-Trump voters, everyone should read what Jamelle Bouie wrote). The unfortunate reality is that hundreds of thousands of Obama voters, across key states, simply didn't vote in 2016. Again, Hillary Hate was a major factor.

Next, many people continue to misunderstand who so-called "independents" are. Very few are actually swing voters. The vast majority are highly partisan (most only require the slightest nudge in order to vote for a particular candidate). In fact, studies have shown that the average "independent" of today is more strongly aligned with a particular party than the average party-affiliated voter was in the 1970s. The other thing to understand about independents is that they are less reliable voters, less engaged.

The failure to understand that truth about independents and a misunderstanding of what happened in 2016 has led some to this notion that only a moderate old white male can defeat Trump. Also, people get seduced by the hypothetical matchup polls, but they're historically inaccurate at this stage in the game--just ask President Dukakis. We shouldn't be using those as any sort of a guide in terms of picking our nominee.

The bottom line is that our focus must be on boosting turnout of POC, youth and white suburban women. And not on appealing to a limited subset of voters who are widely dispersed across all 50 states, at the risk of not firing up the base. Get out the base, get out the base, get out the base. And be prepared to fight voter suppression efforts. That's what will win us the election. If we get turnout even close to 2008 levels, it'll take epic corruption to prevent our nominee from winning in a landslide.

pbmus

(12,422 posts)
9. Vigilance, donate, active activism, educate yourself and others...
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 11:31 PM
Oct 2019

Last edited Sat Oct 19, 2019, 03:12 AM - Edit history (1)

LeftInTX

(25,303 posts)
10. Yes...the odds are in his favor statistically
Fri Oct 18, 2019, 11:49 PM
Oct 2019

He's an incumbent and the economy is doing well. Unemployment is at a 50 year low.

We find him repugnant, but many independents don't see him as repugnant. (They may not "like" him, but they don't share our visceral reaction of him) Visceral reaction is what many, many people vote on. Lots of people watched the Apprentice and weren't particularly bothered by him.

Hoping on "demographics" or thinking, "we think he's gross, so he'll never be reelected", "he's fat", "tarriffs are killing us" (not they aren't), "Trump's a womanizer" etc. We may have a bad future economy, but currently we do not have a bad economy. We don't have a national security crisis at the present time. Most people are indifferent about a wall, children in cages etc etc. The one thing that he has going against him is this thing with Turkey. We also need to hammering the point about foreign meddling, but it is a complex point to get across. A Democrat not only needs Democratic talking points, but also needs to focus on foreign relations and national security. At this time, foreign relations and national security seems to be the weakest link with Trump.

It is interesting that both Bernie and Trump were on the isolationist aisle. Now we are realizing the real time effects of isolationism. We've already been down the road with fiscal conservatism. We know it's a disaster, but people still vote for it. However this is the first time, we've had a bull in the china shop for president when it comes to foreign policy.

Joinfortmill

(14,417 posts)
12. We need to vote in huge numbers
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 12:03 AM
Oct 2019

It's not over until the last vote is counted. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Liberal In Texas

(13,548 posts)
13. This is why we have to get our act together
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 12:06 AM
Oct 2019

Tusli can sink us.

12 candidates on the stage is way too confusing.

Telling people their taxes are going to go up is a losing argument. (Does not matter that the premiums on insurance will disappear...it's the perception.)

Cross-check.

Russian interference.

Voter ID laws

Electronic voting. (This is the largest unknown...the machines are easily hackable and the Russians are quite capable of doing it. They did it in 2016.)

We will be fighting lies and the constant flow of propaganda that the average joe and jane listen to/watch on a daily basis on the media they consume.

As Mark Twain allegedly said, "A Lie Can Travel Halfway Around the World While the Truth Is Putting On Its Shoes." It is so true.

abqtommy

(14,118 posts)
14. Look on the bright side. If tRUMP resigns we won't have to beat him. At the polls anyway...
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 12:13 AM
Oct 2019

tman

(983 posts)
15. Yes, it will be a coin toss election.
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 12:15 AM
Oct 2019

oasis

(49,381 posts)
16. Dullard Trump will continue to be his own worst enemy. A tiny detail
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 12:45 AM
Oct 2019

Moody convieniently left out of the equation.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
17. And just wait until we have a nominee All the propaganda GOP /Trump can buy
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 12:50 AM
Oct 2019

Schiff was speaking in Chicago earlier this month about the use of ai in the election campaign 2020
It can be used to make clips of a person looking as though they were saying something in the past that they never did. Very sophisticated
GOP won’t think twice about using any nasty tricks they can. A post truth run accepted

From a spring hearing where he spoke on the subject
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-holds-hearing-on-deepfakes-and-artificial-intelligence-amid-national-security-concerns-live-stream/#


In his opening remarks, Committee chair Rep. Adam Schiff said the spread of manipulated videos presents a "nightmarish" scenario for the 2020 presidential elections -- leaving lawmakers, members of the news media and public "struggling to discern what is real and what is fake."

Schiff urged that "now is the time for social media companies to put in place policies to protect users from misinformation, not in 2021 after viral deepfakes have polluted the 2020 elections. By then, it will be too late."

NanceGreggs

(27,814 posts)
20. This is complete bullshit.
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 02:14 AM
Oct 2019

If the only thing that drove voters to the polls was how they viewed the economy, this “analysis” would make some sense – some, but not very much. In fact, hardly any.

People vote for a candidate for any number of reasons: party loyalty, common political ideals, their stand on issues like the environment, pro-choice/anti-choice, – the list is endless, as are the combinations and permutations.

In addition, there are the ‘never-will’ voters: I’ll never vote for a woman, I’ll never vote for a Jew, I’ll never vote for a homosexual, I’ll never vote for anyone over seventy.

One’s view of the economy as a whole is also based on a myriad of personal criteria, i.e. low unemployment is meaningless to the guy who has to work two jobs to pay his bills, or the woman who just lost her job because the plant she worked at for twenty years just shut down. They don’t vote based on a healthy stock market; they vote based on how far their paycheque lasts from one payday to the next.

The idea that any voter just blindly casts his/her ballot based on any one thing is ludicrous, and basing a ‘model’ on just one thing is laughable.

And then there’s the big, lard-assed, orange elephant in the middle of the room – something this ‘model’ doesn’t seem to be concerned with at all. ”Sure, Trump is a liar, a thief, a racist, and a traitor who has sold out the country for personal gain – but the economy looks good, so I’m voting for him anyway” said no voter ever – except for his ‘base’, who don’t have the numbers to re-elect him.

To suggest that Trump, as an incumbent with a good economy, has the ‘advantage’ is to believe that voters will be walking into the voting booth without any regard whatsoever to his disastrous policies, his distancing of our allies, his lies, his lack of personal morality, his arrogance, his stupidity, and the growing evidence of his corruption is beyond the realm of credulity.

What will really have an impact on voters in 2020 is anger. People who are satisfied with a sitting president are less motivated to vote than people who are pissed-off with that president’s actions, words, and behaviour – and want to vote him out of office. That’s not scientific theory – that’s just human nature.

Anyone who believes that an alleged ‘good economy’ will drive people to the polls to vote on that basis alone is selling fake science. And anyone who believes that fake science hasn’t bothered to look at the current polls, where Trump is trounced by any number of potential Democratic candidates.

If you believe that those polls are going to suddenly turn around in Trump’s favour, I have a bridge in Brooklyn you might want to consider buying.

pbmus

(12,422 posts)
21. Bingo...
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 03:14 AM
Oct 2019

CatMor

(6,212 posts)
26. Right on, I agree with Nance100%
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 11:10 AM
Oct 2019

FakeNoose

(32,634 posts)
33. Thank you Nance!
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 11:43 AM
Oct 2019

You're so right, the economy is a big thing but it's far from the only thing.

As long as our Dem nominee has appeal to the independents and cross-over voters I think we have a very good chance to beat Chump next year. If we foolishly select someone that only appeals to liberals/progressives, then it will be much more difficult.

2naSalit

(86,581 posts)
35. +1
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 11:53 AM
Oct 2019

Response to elocs (Original post)

NickB79

(19,236 posts)
23. Assuming the economy doesn't take a crap before Nov 2020
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 10:43 AM
Oct 2019

Well, I'm sure Moody's would see something like that coming...... .

http://money.com/money/5479035/experts-recession-2020/

The year “2020 is a real inflection point,” Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics, warned earlier this year. Higher interest rates and a ballooning deficit will both put the economy at risk just in time for Trump’s reelection campaign, he argued.


Whoops!

spanone

(135,830 posts)
24. This may apply in a 'normal' election. 2020 will not be a 'normal' election.
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 10:53 AM
Oct 2019

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,412 posts)
50. Exactly
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 02:57 PM
Oct 2019

If Trump were like any other Republican President, they *may* have a point. But I'm straining my brain to figure out how, after not even 4 years of him (yet), there's people out there sans his "base" whom are going to look at Trump and say, "Hey, I want FOUR MORE YEARS!!!"

I just can't see it. I know that Republicans and esp. Trump will smear whoever the Democratic candidate is very hard and it will be an ugly campaign but, seriously, how many people are there whom aren't seriously tired of him by now?

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
25. A formerly middle-of-the-road family member is rabidly pro-Trump now...
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 11:04 AM
Oct 2019

1) "all politicians are corrupt," 2) "he's put more money in my pocket and I'll be able to pay off XX's college loans faster," and 3) "my 401(K)."

People don't like to hear it, but it's the economy. Always. He doesn't like the racism, the kids in cages, the pussy-grabbing, etc. but money rules. ALWAYS.

Mister Ed

(5,930 posts)
29. I'd say that family member is BS-ing. It's not the 401(k).
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 11:15 AM
Oct 2019

The chart for that same 401(k) surely showed the same robust upward growth throughout the Obama years that has now continued under Trump. Unless the health of his 401(k) in those years made him rabidly pro-Obama, he's lying to you (and himself) now.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
37. It doesn't matter what charts say. It's his perception.
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 11:58 AM
Oct 2019

And the perception of millions of others. Did Obama and Democrats in general drill into voters' heads how well things were going? No. Did we promote the ACA like it should have been promoted? No. It doesn't seem to be our style. But people want to hear something - anything - and Drumpf is a master at it. That's the danger, especially since Republicans are closing in on SS and Medicare.

Mister Ed

(5,930 posts)
39. Aye. Spot-on. n/t
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 12:44 PM
Oct 2019

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
40. Thx. What awaits SS and Medicare is keeping me up at night...
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 12:54 PM
Oct 2019

especially since I hope to retire within 7 years 10 months XX days...

IcyPeas

(21,866 posts)
41. and like 2016 he is still headline news 24/7
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 01:30 PM
Oct 2019

no other candidate gets anywhere near the media attention (i.e. publicity) trump does. democrats don't hold rallies where they get everyone worked up into a tizzy like trump does. he is a showman. he is a celebrity. those people are all going to vote.

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)
43. Yep, every one of them will vote. That's what terrifies me...
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 01:44 PM
Oct 2019

brush

(53,776 posts)
27. You have to add the spectre of impeachment though. Normally a good economy...
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 11:14 AM
Oct 2019

favors an incumbent president but a president having been impeached will undoubtedly have an effect on the election.

If he's impeached and convicted in the Senate he'll be gone, good economy or not.

EarlG

(21,947 posts)
31. Maybe...
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 11:18 AM
Oct 2019

Maybe not...

Moody's Analytics election model predicts Clinton win

(Reuters) - Low gas prices and President Barack Obama’s high approval ratings are key factors that favor Democrat Hillary Clinton winning the White House in next week’s election, according to a model from Moody’s Analytics that has accurately predicted the last nine U.S. presidential contests.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-research-moody-s-idUSKBN12W56J

I saw another DUer recently describe Trump as a “black swan event,” which seems about right.

forthemiddle

(1,379 posts)
34. Some say they were right in 2016
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 11:50 AM
Oct 2019

After all, Clinton won the popular vote, just not the Presidency.

EarlG

(21,947 posts)
38. The next paragraph of the article...
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 12:34 PM
Oct 2019

“Clinton is forecast to pick up 332 Electoral College votes against 206 for Republican Donald Trump, Moody’s Analytics predicted on Tuesday in the final update of its model before Election Day on Nov. 8.”

Their model was pretty far off.

forthemiddle

(1,379 posts)
42. It pays to read the article!
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 01:42 PM
Oct 2019

I usually do before I respond, but today I was in a hurry and only glanced.
That will teach me!

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
47. It also has these 2 paragraphs:
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 02:37 PM
Oct 2019
Among the political factors weighed, Moody’s said the most important is the share of the vote in any one state that went to the incumbent party in the previous election. It also takes into account voter fatigue and the incumbent president’s approval ratings.


Moody’s warns, however, that its model does not take into account any individual characteristics of specific candidates.


That would suggest trouble for Trump given that he must win PA, MI and WI again. 2018's election and his approval rating suggest it'll take a lot of election fraud to get him over the hump.

Absent voter suppression and foreign interference and Comey in 2016 and 332-206 would have been about right.

Response to EarlG (Reply #31)

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
44. That Model had Hillary winning in 2016.
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 01:47 PM
Oct 2019

How did that turn out?

Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #44)

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
49. Here's a one variable model that is perfect.
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 02:43 PM
Oct 2019

No president in the history of polling who had less than a 50% approval rating on election day has ever been re-elected.

Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #49)

Takket

(21,563 posts)
48. this is a horribly flawed method of predicting an election.........
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 02:41 PM
Oct 2019

This would be like me saying "well 90% of the country supports background checks for firearms, and that is a liberal position, so i predict 90% of the vote going to Democrats."

2018 midterm exit polls here:

https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/exit-polls

Show only 22% of persons believed the economy was the most important issue. and a huge segment of that number was rethugs (people who won't be voting Democrat regardless). and this was a midterm... drumpf was not even on the ballot (though his shadow was certainly hanging over the election). A lot more people are going to show up in 2020 to vote against him. Currently polling shows he is double digits underwater in many battleground states.

and the state of the economy remains to be seen 1 year from now. The signs are already there that a recession is coming.

Response to Takket (Reply #48)

Takket

(21,563 posts)
59. but that's they point.......... there is nothing normal about this election
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:13 PM
Oct 2019

you can't just ignore the effect drumpf has had on the country. any incumbent president should be polling in the 60%+ range with the economy the way it is right now.........

that's specifically why i called out the midterms. Democrats had a nearly unprecedented midterms for themselves.... to not factor that into your calculation means your calculation is flawed.

Response to Takket (Reply #59)

MFM008

(19,808 posts)
51. BARING A TURNOUT SURGE
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 03:00 PM
Oct 2019

Like that wont be happening.
I predict the biggest turnout in the history
Of the country.

dewsgirl

(14,961 posts)
53. I do too. If not we as a nation are doomed.
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 03:44 PM
Oct 2019

Response to MFM008 (Reply #51)

Kablooie

(18,632 posts)
52. If Trump survives the impeachment he will win in 2020.
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 03:40 PM
Oct 2019

Surviving the impeachment means he is given a green light to run the country completely for his own benefit without fear of future consequences because there will not be another opportunity for impeachment before the election.

Besides the factors the article brings up, he will have a year to rig the elections in every way he can with no one to stop him.

It will impossible to overcome an unfettered crime syndicate that controls the Presidency, Justice Department, Senate and Supreme Court with impeachment taken off the table.

Let's hope that the House comes up with some horrific evidence that will hit the public in the gut and get them on our side or else the America we have known will be gone, probably forever.

lettucebe

(2,336 posts)
54. I want to see the math that supports his re-election
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 04:14 PM
Oct 2019

He has done zero to court new voters and he has hemorrhaged those he had to start. Day after day he does or says something to lose a few more. How on earth can this be a winning strategy? He cannot possibly have enough voters so cheating is his only hope.

The economy will not cause anyone with an ounce of intelligence to suddenly decide, "Hey, this Trump guy isn't all bad, right?" I don't see that happening. He did win supporters because of his celebrity; these are the supports who don't read or watch news, or what they do see is false. There are simply not enough of those voters. Period.

Show me the math and I'll consider changing my position

 

evertonfc

(1,713 posts)
55. no shit ..
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 04:20 PM
Oct 2019

an, no shit a strong economy helps the incumbent. Button expecting a surge. A big one. But, sure, it will be tough.

orangecrush

(19,546 posts)
60. If he is removed from office
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:14 PM
Oct 2019


It becomes a moot point.
 

Joe941

(2,848 posts)
61. Trump cheated to win in 2016.
Sat Oct 19, 2019, 05:17 PM
Oct 2019

Is that taken into account?

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