we just couldn't do it. we had to wait until he really ruined something big.

[unblock]

it wasn't enough that he lied incesantly.
it wasn't enough that he asked russia to commit cybercrimes against a political opponent
it wasn't enough that he wouldn't release his tax returns
it wasn't enough that he insulted virtually any american who wasn't a rich, straight, white, christian, conservative, able-bodied male.
it wasn't enough that he dismissed any contrary fact as "fake news"
it wasn't enough that he complained that any contrary opinion was stifling conservatives' "free speech"
it wasn't enough that he blew a giant hole in the deficit nearly exclusively to benefit incredibly rich people
it wasn't enough that he encouraged violence
it wasn't enough that he put a target on the backs of actual journalists
it wasn't enough that he was accused of sexual harrassment/assault/rape over 50 times
it wasn't enough that he cheated on his wives
it wasn't enough that he paid people to keep them silent
it wasn't enough that he put his children in the white house
it wasn't enough that he steers white house guests and even the military to his private hotels for personal profit.

we couldn't get rid of him for any of those reasons.

we just had to wait until he did something like complelete screw up the middle east.
we just had to wait until he destroyed our credibility with our allies.
we just had to wait until he handed a huge strategic advantage over to russia
we just had to wait until he created a humanitarian disaster.

we just had to wait until he demonstrated himself to be *exactly* the complete disaster every bit of evidence assured us he would be.


why is it that people have to let it get far too horrible before they accept that a completely unacceptable situation must be fixed?

[First Speaker]

1. There seems to be some human inability to believe that the worst can happen...

...even when history--and simple common sense--shows that it has, and does. Nobody believed that a minor military confrontation over Fort Sumter could lead to 600,000 dead. Nobody believed that a Balkan assassination could lead to a war that killed ten million. Nobody believed that a crazy exiled Russian radical could launch a revolution that would kill twenty million people. Nobody believed that a crank from the Vienna gutters could take over the most civilized country in Europe, leading to a war that killed fifty million people. All these things are inconceivable--until they happen. As for Trump...well, the disaster is barely begun. It's going to get much worse--and the GOP will go along with him every step of the way. God help us all...

[dalton99a]

3. "Hitler's anti-Semitism was not so genuine or violent as it sounded."

- New York Times, Nov. 21, 1922

[unblock]

5. people are like deer in the headlights until a disaster hits bottom.

all the way down, people stand with their jaw on the floor but don't act to stop the further decline.

donnie has dominated the airwaves and our thoughts even though he's had over 50% disapproval ratings (or nearly so) pretty much the entire time. the media covers him like he was as popular as fdr even though he's clearly unpopular and toxic.

[uponit7771]

6. THIS !!!! Things are not going to get better

[mopinko]

2. we had to wait until enough people died.

yeah, how far this asshole has gotten depresses the fuck out of me.

ie- the tariffs. he has absolutely no authority to impose tariffs, except in cases of national security interest. can someone tell me what national security interest is threatened by irish cheese?
he is crashing the ENTIRE WORLD ECONOMY. and folks just let that slide.

we need bigger guard rails.

[unblock]

7. yeah, that's another thing i could add to the list.

i just did that as a quick off the top of my head. there's so much more, sadly.

yeah, he's corrupted everything he's touched. it's in the national security interest because he said so, end of discussion.

so now the president has the ability to raise taxes on americans (because that's what tariffs are) on a whim, and target them to affect industries and states and districts of his choosing. what could go possibly wrong with that...?

[mopinko]

10. meh. not much. just a global recession is all.

i guess on the bright side, we are gonna need that green new deal pretty badly. maybe it can happen.

[maxsolomon]

4. People don't change until they have to.

Pelosi was right; he had to self-impeach.

[dewsgirl]

8. A catastrophic disaster is what this is becoming. Beautifully

written.

[roamer65]

9. Just wait until the Israelis get involved.

You all KNOW it’s coming. It’s inevitable now.

This fat lady is just beginning to clear her throat.

[Hortensis]

11. To put it another ways: ELECTIONS ARE SERIOUS BUSINESS.

The choices of many millions are not easily undone, and only fools and callous, feckless people (great overlap there) don't use their vote to make them come out right every election.

[unblock]

12. actually, someone called vladimir might disagree with you....

[Hortensis]

13. No, he agrees entirely. Ours are not the first elections he's

turned into weapons of war. And not lost a single soldier in ours at least.

The time to stop this disaster was November 6, 2016. If I were you, I wouldn't waste a single calorie bemoaning the reality that national elections can't just be reversed afterward by those who voted against whoever won.

And even without Russia, what's not to understand that nearly half the nation is conservative and today are under the influence of very toxic Kool-Aid?

VOTE -- every time as if our nation's future depended on it.

“Maybe you do not care much about the future of the Republican Party. You should. Conservatives will always be with us. If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”

― David Frum, Trumpocracy: The Corruption of the American Republic

[unblock]

14. my point is that he was able to overturn the will of the majority.

at this point i am fairly convinced that hillary won the electoral college vote as well as the majority vote.

with all the hacking and criminality and narrow victories in just the right places, i can't see why republicans and russians would stop at not tampering with actual votes.

even in the paper ballot days, partisans would stuff ballot boxes and/or dump bags of ballots to manipulate elections.

electronic voting machines have only made it easier, at least for those with access....

[Hortensis]

17. Unblock, agree with much, BUT not that it's Trump's doing.

If he dropped dead today our democracy would still be in grave danger.

Maybe under President Pence we could at least stabilize the Middle East and save some lives, perhaps at the sacrifice of some of our troops. Pence is more than a little a religious fanatic, a good servant of God through the wealthy, and has to be concerned about maintaining Christian and Big Oil strength there.

The danger to our democracy would increase under a competent Republican president, though. It's not Trump.

[GoneOffShore]

19. A fair point. And I fear that ANY Republican would continue pmurT's policies,

no matter how 'reasonable' they appear.

[unblock]

20. Agreed. Indeed, Donnie being a very unusual personality will help the right-wing

When he goes down, the right wing will be able to characterize him as the singular bad guy, (somehow) not at all like all those "normal" republicans.

They'll pay a price in the next election but then continue dragging the country down, just as they did with Nixon,

[sandiapeach]

54. The never die GOP

I am am an old lady and I have heard of the demise of the GOP many times, but they have always come back and more loathsome than ever. With the fascist evangelicals, the 1%, FAUX and the rest of the hate media firmly in their pocket the GOP will not even feel a bump.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

16. Any number of things leading up to it

should have been campaign/Presidency-enders. In any other reality with any other candidate. Hillary was savaged over the e-mail server stuff that harmed nobody and was repeatedly shown to be a nothingburger, but Trump has gotten away with so much crazier stuff and, one-by-one, anybody who could have better controlled his worst impulses, anybody who could have told him "NO!" has left the building, leaving him surrounded by nothing but syncophants, eager and willing to stoke and perpetuate each and every delusion or fantasy that crosses Trump's mind.

[ehrnst]

66. He knows that with Moscow Mitch in the Senate, he won't be removed before 2021. There is no

"stopping" him from doing anything that the courts will let him do until then.

[GoneOffShore]

18. I'd like to tweet this out and put it on Facebook.

It says so much about what many of us knew would happen back in November 2016.

[unblock]

21. Be my guest.

Usually my posts drop like a stone.

[GoneOffShore]

22. Well, this one shouldn't.

It's right up there with the ones that Nance Greggs writes, and Bill Pitt wrote when he was still here.

[unblock]

25. Wow, high praise, that!

Thank you indeed!

[flying_wahini]

57. I agree! Great rant.

[ehrnst]

67. Many of us knew long before that what was at stake. The "Never Hillary" asses didn't care because

her losing was validation for them.

[Garrett78]

23. The nation and the media need to reflect on why this has been allowed to go on when we all know...

...a Democratic president would have been gone within a few months of taking office if he/she had committed a fraction of the misdeeds committed by Trump.

If candidate A commits 1 infraction and candidate B commits 500 infractions, it is not 'fair' or 'balanced' if the media spends equal time talking about infractions of the respective candidates.

[unblock]

26. a democratic candidate who acted like donnie never would have gotten out of the starting gate.

how much mileage did donnie get out of claiming that obama, a man born on u.s. soil, to an american citizen mother from kansas, wasn't a natural-born citizen?

that story would have gotten maybe as much attention as ted cruz being born in canada or mccain being born in panama, and any political neophyte peddling controversy about that would have gotten nowhere.


and then once the rampant lies and insults and scandals and so on became apparent, they would have been treated like gary johnson, the libertarian candidate in 2016 who only got coverage when it made him look weird.

they tanked hillary by focusing on complete non-scandals, email and benghazi, while essentially ignoring her accomplishments and plans and vision.


assuming donnie actually is removed (still a big if), the media might have a round of self-indulgent introspection, after which they will vow to do better next time, and they will fix nothing.

[Garrett78]

44. Absolutely, but if a Democratic president's misdeeds weren't known until after taking office...

...he/she would be removed for a fraction of what Trump has done.

As I posted yesterday, Republican bashing of the media has been a form of projection for many years now.

The media, as a whole, is awful--but not for the reasons Republicans claim. But by constantly attacking the media and making "liberal media" a household term, they've successfully undercut what is a very valid criticism of the media (with their false equivalencies, their fluff, their giving equal time to utter bullshit due to a warped sense of what constitutes fair reporting, etc.). 

And that's hugely responsible for the mess in which we've found ourselves.

Democrats need to change the narrative regarding the media. That'll take a long time to do after ceding that ground for 40+ years.

[unblock]

45. indeed, and our troubles will go on long after donnie is gone....

[Garrett78]

47. For sure. Trump didn't happen in a vacuum. He's a symptom.

50+ years of increasingly cruel and unhinged rhetoric and policy created a monster. That monster is the Republican Party as a whole (the electorate and the officeholders).

[crazytown]

24. Impeachment didn't stop trump green lighting Erdogan

On the contrary. He wanted to do it a year ago. There is no guarantee he would not have acted sooner, if the Dems had acted sooner.

[unblock]

28. i meant "we" as a nation.

i recognize that the problem has always been republican support for donnie, particularly in the senate.

i have no doubt democrats would have impeached him very early on if only republican senators cared about the country more than their own next primary contest.

[ehrnst]

65. +1000. (nt)

[handmade34]

27. reality is...

it still isn't horrible enough... the Republicans will let him remain in the White House... it make me sick to think of this

[unblock]

29. i fear you may be right.

i fear it will take a large number of american casualties to move them.

[Lock him up.]

30. The answer is: (4 damn words)

Faux Snooze
Hate Radio

[gordianot]

31. In fairness he has spent a lifetime skirting justice.

Rape, financial fraud, racism, failed businesses and has not paid a price beyond wrecking his inheritance. He could have been stopped much earlier.

[usaf-vet]

32. So we know what you let him get away with. Are you done sticking your heads in the sand?

I hope that you finally have had enough.

Most of us had enough with just his lying. And of course, putting kids in cages!

Stop talking, thinking, ignoring, hiding and blaming others. Stop this evil ignorant idiot from destroying whatever he touches.

[Poiuyt]

36. Separating children from their parents and putting them in cages

was the worst.

That and emoluments violations and colluding with Russia to steal the presidency.

It's hard to pick out just one.

[unblock]

41. lengthy and as damning as my list was, there's plenty more where that came from.

so hard to keep track, and why should we have to? any unfounded accusation of a fraction of any one of these would kill a democrat's career.

[usaf-vet]

42. You are right hard to choose. GOP is filled with blind heartless cowards with blood on their hands.

As a veteran, I pray our men and women make it out of the region safely.

Trump doesn't deserve to be called the C in C.

[hibbing]

33. Strong post n/t

[BamaRefugee]

34. Trust me, millions of 'Muricans find everything totally satisfactory, and they're COLLEGE FOLKS...

ELECTORAL college that is, and it can possibly have the power to keep things intact and get way way way way worse than we imagine right now.

[bluestarone]

35. Great post

KICK!

[Alwaysna]

37. And still there are those who say we Democrats are just pissed we lost the election!

[world wide wally]

38. Yeah, but let's wait to see if he commits jaywalking or murder

[CaptainTruth]

39. Reality: If we had impeached Trump for all "those reasons" you listed ...

... Republicans in the Senate would have given him a fast & easy acquittal. Trump would still be president. All the terrible things that are happening now would have still happened. Nothing would be "fixed."

"why is it that people have to let it get far too horrible before they accept that a completely unacceptable situation must be fixed?"

That's an excellent question for Senate Republicans. Democrats realized & accepted long ago that this situation must be fixed. They also realize that impeachment followed by a quick & easy Senate acquittal doesn't fix anything.

Unfortunately, in order to actually fix the situation things have to be so bad that Republican Trump enablers in the Senate abandon him & vote to convict & remove him from office. And it has to be really bad for that to happen. So bad that they see they'll lose their seats if they keep supporting Trump, because all they really care about is winning their next election.

I desperately wish all of this were not true, but it is. It's the reality we face.

[unblock]

40. yeah, "we" was meant all of us, as a nation.

clearly democrats knew what was up before the election; we wanted hillary, and have always strongly disapproved of donnie.

senate republicans can't look past the next primary to do what's right for the nation. damn, it's not like they even lose control of the white house if they turn it over to pence, yet they still couldn't be bothered, and still may not.

[Kurt V.]

43. Remember this from one thousand years ago? itmf

[BlueWI]

46. Very pertinent question.

The Trump horror show is reality, not reality TV. Time is not on our side. We have to accept that any attempt to address this mess politically will not be quick and easy. It will require short term and long term strategy, with the risks high and outcomes uncertain.

[unblock]

52. Removing Donnie is but one small step in the long road back to sanity

[BlueWI]

58. Truth. eom

[yardwork]

48. Ask the people who voted for him.

The rest of us knew this before 2016. That's why we voted for Hillary Clinton.

[Skittles]

49. THANK YOU

it is SICKENING how long it has taken to start any semblance of an investigation

[McCamy Taylor]

50. After Nixon, no one tried to check the power of the POTUS. After Trump, I am hoping they will.

[Wounded Bear]

51. It is the nature of our democracy that Congress won't do anything until the shit hits the fan...

[Iggo]

53. Yep and Yep.

[NCLefty]

55. Impeachment is supposed to have a high bar--if it didn't, Obama would prob have been gone.

And it's not our fault Republicans didn't want to see his criminality--or that they now openly want him to get away with it.

[KentuckyWoman]

56. We could have done it.

We chose not to. I don't believe we even push him from office before the end of his term.

We being Americans as a whole. The Democratic Party has pushed but Americans as a whole, not enough seem to care.

[Beartracks]

59. Until he demonstrated himself to be *exactly* who Hilary warned us he was. n/t

[ramen]

60. I am going to add a trace of unpopular opinion into this.

Every single thing you listed is true, abhorrent, unimaginatively authoritarian, and deeply unethical. It is simply insane that any of it happened, let alone that all of it happened in such a short timeframe.

But the fact the the *elected moron up there has acted like a moron hasn't all been impeachable. Much of it has been notably so, in my admittedly limited understanding, like the endless emoluments violations, or the obstruction of justice re: Mueller (that memorandum of understanding does not clear presidents from criminal activity. It was a one-off opinion), blah blather.

But, whatever else was simply unimaginably awful but not 'impeachable,' the bit where he extorted Ukraine's military aid over a hack-job on Joe Biden's son.. that is so nakedly impeachable that it is insane to do anything other than impeach. That is not simply banana republic bullshit, it is also objectively criminal and therefore differently actionable than just being a twat all the time about everything.

I wish he had done stuff like this first, before all the other catastrophic damage he has done, but I thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster that he finally did something so out in the open and so unabashedly. Again, I would have preferred it be something not awful, but it doesn't seem like part of his vibe.

[unblock]

63. he's done blatantly criminal stuff before this

i agree there are some things that aren't blatantly criminal or impeachable in and of themselves, like lying or appointing his children to white house positions. but he has done other things that are, such as the constant grifting and the over-the-top obstruction of justice.

the remarkable thing about the republican party is that they can't even bring themselves to really rebuke him for any of it. hopefully the camel's back is broken by now....

[MrModerate]

61. Why let it go so far?

Because removing Trump without the rule of law governing the process would be more damaging to America (and ultimately the world) than gritting our teeth and toughing it out until 2020, and making sure he loses the election.

As it turns out, Dems are doing both. And by the time they hand off impeachment to the Senate, who knows how many friends Trump will have left in Washington?

[unblock]

62. no one said anything about doing it outside the rule of law.

and democrats have been strongly opposed to donnie from the get-go. he's had majority disapproval for nearly the entire time in office, which is truly remarkable.

yet it's only the betrayal of a key ally in a strategically critical region that seems to have raised eyebrows in the republican party.

republicans have been astonishingly ok with everything up to this point.

as if no one could have imagined such a thing, coming from an impulsive, ignorant, easily manipulated, sociopathic, supremely arrogant idiot.

[ehrnst]

64. I believe that the impeachment inquiry may have triggered him. He feels cornered.

And what could have been done earlier - or even now - to stop him from doing anything?

[unblock]

68. sadly, doing anything to save ourselves from this disaster requires some republican support

it requires more than a few senate republicans and/or foxnews to be willing to take donnie down at least a few notches.

sadly, only retiring politicians seem to be the only republicans capable of even mildly criticizing donnie.

[ehrnst]

71. So, it wasn't "waiting" so much as it was being realistically prevented from doing anything

substantial to stop him, especially before February of this year when we got the House back.

And even now, there is no way to remove him prior to January 2021, so attacking Democratic leaders for "not doing anything" isn't really justified.

[unblock]

72. i wasn't attacking democratic leaders or any democrats.

i meant "we the people". all of us, collectively, as a nation.

of course democrats would have loved to see him forced to resign at least a couple years ago, it's absolutely the republicans and the media who prop him up.

but collectively, as a nation, we've waited until disaster, and may yet wait until an even worse disaster to finally remove him.

[ecstatic]

69. The caged kids and permanently separated families signaled that

our country was already finished (or damn close to it).

[unblock]

70. indeed. first they came for the children, and i said nothing because i was not a child....

[lame54]

73. We still haven't done it

[unblock]

74. true. sometimes people need to let it hit bottom before they act.

even if it's well beyond acceptable well prior to hitting bottom.

it's like people have to wait for the disaster to stop or have its big finale before they fix it, rather than stopping the disaster from continuing to do damage before it gets to that point.