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Tue Oct 8, 2019, 03:27 PM

Update on the motion to stay in the Trump tax return case


As discussed previously, an NY prosecutor, Cyrus Vance Jr., is seeking to obtain Trump's tax returns from his accountants in relation to an investigation being conducted by the State of New York.

Trump has filed a federal case claiming a broad immunity to disclosure of the information sought by the State of New York.

The federal district judge shot that down in a scathing decision, in response to which Trump filed a motion for a stay pending expedited review by the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals (the federal appeals court which hears cases from New York).

The 2nd Circuit, quite predictably, granted that motion. It is quite predictable because it would be unusual, regardless of how stupid the claim might seem, for an appellate court to leave a decision concerning a direct question involving the powers and immunities of a Constitutional office in the hands of a single district court judge.

Federal appeals cases, incidentally, are heard either by a panel of three judges, or by the full bench of that appeals court for a "we really mean it" decision which usually places the case in better condition to go to the Supreme Court.

In any event, as noted here, the grant was made by the judge indicated as "RJL" on the 2nd Circuit docket:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/14664/trump-v-vance-jr/


MOTION ORDER, granting motion to expedite, [14] consideration for stay pending appeal and the merits of the appeal. Appellant's brief is due on 10/11/2019 at 5:00pm. The United States Department of Justice's amicus brief in support of Appellant is due at the same time. Appellees' briefs are due on 10/15/2019 at 5:00pm. Appellant's reply brief isdue on 10/17/2019 at 5:00pm. Argument will be scheduled as early as the week of 10/21/2019. The temporary administrative stay remains in effect until argument is completed, by RJL, FILED.


As is usually the case with these sorts of things, a number of persons here decided the judge was corrupt, not paying attention, on Trump's side, etc..

As is also usually the case with these sorts of things, I will continue to point out that the enemies of this country would like nothing better than for us to give up on our system of government, including the ability to change it, and the institutions which are designed to preserve it.

This is the judge whom those persons here at DU decided to attack and accuse of corruption, without even knowing who it was:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Lohier

He was the chief of the securities and commodities fraud task force in the criminal division of the U.S. Attorney's office. He was recommended by Sen. Charles Schumer for the nomination to the seat on the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit that was vacated by Sonia Sotomayor when she was elevated to the Supreme Court of the United States. Lohier is the first Haitian American to serve as an Article III Federal Judge and to be confirmed (unanimously) by the United States Senate as a Judge for the Second Circuit in New York. He was mentioned as a possible candidate for the Supreme Court by President Barack Obama.



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Arrow 26 replies Author Time Post
Reply Update on the motion to stay in the Trump tax return case (Original post)
jberryhill Oct 8 OP
Bernardo de La Paz Oct 8 #1
stopdiggin Oct 8 #2
The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 8 #3
jberryhill Oct 8 #5
The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 8 #7
jberryhill Oct 8 #10
Atticus Oct 8 #4
ismnotwasm Oct 8 #6
beachbumbob Oct 8 #8
Midnightwalk Oct 8 #9
jberryhill Oct 8 #11
Rstrstx Oct 8 #12
Raster Oct 8 #13
Owl Oct 8 #14
jberryhill Oct 9 #21
StarfishSaver Oct 9 #24
Owl Oct 9 #26
FakeNoose Oct 8 #15
bitterross Oct 8 #16
Prof.Higgins Oct 8 #17
jalan48 Oct 8 #18
Karadeniz Oct 8 #19
Pepsidog Oct 8 #20
spanone Oct 9 #22
StarfishSaver Oct 9 #23
Ms. Toad Oct 9 #25

Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 03:30 PM

1. Thanks, again, for facts and insightful background. . . . nt

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 03:38 PM

2. good information. thanks.

and I am highlighting part of your text .. because you are dead on here
"As is usually the case with these sorts of things, a number of persons here decided the judge was corrupt, not paying attention, on Trump's side, etc.."
"As is also usually the case with these sorts of things, I will continue to point out that the enemies of this country would like nothing better than for us to give up on our system of government, including the ability to change it, and the institutions which are designed to preserve it
."

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 03:40 PM

3. Thank you!

It drives me absolutely nuts when people who clearly don't know diddly-shit about the legal system rant about a "corrupt" judge for no reason other than the fact that the judge issued a ruling that we don't like. When the "other side" wins because the judge followed the law, that's not corruption. That's the way the system is supposed to work.

It is true that sometimes a judge or a court will let their biases get in the way of a justifiable decision - Bush v. Gore comes to mind; this was a thoroughly disingenuous warping of the 14th amendment to arrive at a result the conservative majority wanted - in a case where they shouldn't have even granted cert in the first place. Mostly, though, that's not what happens. Reading the actual memorandum or order will reveal bad or biased reasoning, if it's there, but deciding, on the basis of a headline describing (often inaccurately) a court decision, that the judge must have been a deplorable Trumpist stooge, is stupid and ignorant and I hate seeing stupidity and ignorance on DU. Leave that to the GOPers.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 03:50 PM

5. At the level of the Supreme Court, though....


...the notion of letting "biases get in the way of a justifiable decision" is considered by some to be the entire point.

The Supreme Court is a bad example to use in a discussion of bias because it's pretty much the only venue where we more or less expect them to decide on the basis of certain biases.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 03:55 PM

7. True. It's unfortunate that the justices are selected more because of their biases

than in spite of them, but it's been that way for a long time (I think Rehnquist was actually worse than anybody on the court now, with the possible exception of Thomas). I mentioned Bush v. Gore mostly because it still pisses me off.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 04:06 PM

10. That case was an abomination


There is no justification for elevating a procedural rule over a constitutional provision, which is the closest I ever came to understanding the "logic" there.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 03:43 PM

4. Thank you for your time in researching and creating that informative and

educational post. Truly, some folks seem to get most of their exercise jumping to conclusions.

Ignorance may not be equally distributed, but it is bipartisan.

Thanks again.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 03:51 PM

6. Thank you

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 03:56 PM

8. Great post. All decisions are appealed and the process is what it is

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 04:00 PM

9. Thanks for the details

Not a lawyer, but I expect any of these cases to wind up at the supreme court before anything is finally decided. Is that a reasonable assumption?

If the second circuit didnít grant the stay could trump have appealed that?

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Response to Midnightwalk (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 04:10 PM

11. Great questions

I hadn't thought of the alternative. Yes, that's exactly what Trump would have done if the second circuit didn't grant the stay.

On your first question, the Supreme Court *could* decline to hear whatever the Second Circuit decides.

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Response to Midnightwalk (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 04:23 PM

12. Sure

He could have appealed it to the Supreme Court.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 05:31 PM

13. Thanks for your insights and commentary...

... in times like these, it is too easy to get hot under the collar and speak without adequate information.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 05:35 PM

14. Thanks! Any idea how long this may drag out?

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Response to Owl (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 08:49 PM

21. Depends on what you mean by "this"


This appeal will be heard by this court on October 21, and is likely to be swiftly followed by a decision.

That decision, if it dissolves the stay, may be appealed to the Supreme Court which, unless Iím mistaken, will require four votes to take it up. They are in session, so they can, if they want, also hear it on an expedited basis, which would be pretty likely under all the relevant procedural circumstances.

But if by ďthisĒ, you mean the underlying investigation to which the subpoena is relevant, well, who knows.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #21)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 08:57 PM

24. October 21 is really quick

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #21)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:06 PM

26. Thanks. Yes I was inquiring about when the appeal might be heard. Glad it's soon.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 05:38 PM

15. K & R bookmarking

Your analysis is insightful and should be required for all DUers to read.

Thanks Jberryhill!

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 05:51 PM

16. Thank you for the information.

It's good to have a perspective that isn't just "I'm angry."

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 06:06 PM

17. Appreciated this lucid explication and sagacious "warning" about some DU

making very ignorant and inaccurate assumptions.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 06:08 PM

18. Thanks for this information.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 06:15 PM

19. Many thanks for the information...always helps to know what's going on!

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Tue Oct 8, 2019, 06:16 PM

20. Stays pending appeal very common especially in a case like this.

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 08:52 PM

22. K&R...👍🏼

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 08:56 PM

23. Great information. Thanks!

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Response to jberryhill (Original post)

Wed Oct 9, 2019, 09:01 PM

25. Well done, as usual. n/t

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