Spin it all you want Ellen...

[Ferrets are Cool]

you were sitting there enjoying yourself next to a WAR CRIMINAL. One who was very responsible for the unnecessary deaths of almost a MILLION CHILDREN, WOMEN and Men. All for his ego and for $$. Not that you care ONE bit, but you lost all respect I had for you. Go sit next to Agent Orange next. I wont care.

[jberryhill]

1. It's no skin off her back

Not like my neighbor, whose son didn’t do well after repeated and extended deployments to fight his wars.

Ellen did well.

[NewDayOranges]

2. What/who are you talking about?

Ellen DeGeneris? Who is the war criminal?

[Javaman]

5. george w. moron*. nt

[mokawanis]

31. She was sitting next to Bush at the Dallas vs Packers game

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

77. It was disgusting and shameful to see that!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[LexVegas]

3. Yeah! Michelle Obama too!!!

[LexVegas]

24. But she gave him candy!!! nt

[A HERETIC I AM]

55. It was the other way around.

W. and Michelle have become good friends, it seems and he gave her a piece of candy at McCain's funeral.

[Zambero]

86. Candy rots teeth and raises blood glucose

More candy for criminals, NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tblue37]

63. No, he gave her candy. You can even see her saying, "Thank you." nt

[IndyOp]

76. Seriously, W has a crush on Michelle. Gack! (nt)

[Celerity]

88. not her finest moment nt

[hlthe2b]

4. Mixed feelings. I could NOT sit next to Cheney, no matter what the event or the personal cost.

And, no, I don't hold Bush* nonresponsible for the Iraqi war or other policies that I consider intensely harmful to Americans. I don't think Bush* is evil through and through nor a sociopath as I do Cheney and his one spawn. And, frankly, I do still believe in civil behavior in public as a standard. So, I won't hold this against Ellen. AFAIK, it isn't as though they intentionally planned to attend together, but even if they had, she is a talk show host and I would not be surprised to see her interview him or many others with whom I don't agree.

[Javaman]

7. george w. moron* was my gov...

I completely hold him responsible. he's a sneaky piece of shit. which to me, when dealing with peoples lives, yes, is evil.

And on being a sociopath? I think it's much akin to s spectrum disorder. he's a mid-range. knows right and wrong but doesn't give a shit as long as he wins in the end.

check out this article about his "deal" regarding the rangers stadium

What Price Baseball?

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/1997-06-20/529131/

[hlthe2b]

15. My instincts are pretty fine tuned. I had to interview Cheney years ago (between Congress & VP)

The hair on the back of my neck stood up immediately upon entering the room with him and I got just a horrendous sense from him. Of course, he was brusque and fairly rude, but that wasn't it. I felt an intense desire to finish as quickly as possible and put a great distance between us.

As I posted, I have not forgotten anything Bush* has done. You say "mid-level" sociopath which is descriptive for any craven opportunist, especially in politics. I don't forgive nor forget what he did. But, without having met him, all I can say is that I've never gotten the sensations from him that I did with Cheney. I think we have only begun to know what horrific events and acts, Cheney personally was responsible for. Bush* was a willing, yet pliable enabler. I don't think he is without at least a few regrets, however. Cheney, will never think twice about what he has done or tried to do.

[BlueWI]

75. Bush had signature authority over every decision.

Personally, I am not one to ponder too much over these psychological aspects of personality. If you're the leader of an organization, in a position that was sought after for decades, why does it matter if you're a craven opportunist, willing enabler, or however Cheney is categorized, if decisions made are as monstrous as the Iraq invasion? If you sit in the president's chair, you assume the consequences of your decisions, as do all of the people and countries affected by the fiasco in Iraq. George W. Bush gets absolutely no allowances from me on this, no matter what role Cheney played in the foolish and deadly misadventure in the Gulf.

I have personally met a number of politicians and have turned down opportunities to meet others. While I share the occasional experience of polite public interaction with elected officials and other organizational leaders whose viewpoints I loathe, there are definitely moments where I have avoided conversation or left the table because I have no desire to exchange niceties that are not genuine. Maybe it's not so easy to do this if you're Michelle Obama or Ellen, and I don't have their experience so I can't advise them. Can't say that I care for the optics, but I'll admit it's probably for the best for some of us to be polite across partisan lines. Waiting to see if that helps us in the end though - not sure it will.

[hlthe2b]

79. I was forced to interview Cheney in the course of my work

(not journalism) and I was as professional as I could be. Not sure if that was your point or not, but I was.

I am not defending Bush* but I am convinced he is not the sociopath Cheney is even if his actions lying us into the war was and is so horrendous. Cheney is indescribable, frankly. But, I am convinced Bush* at least has the capacity for regret. Cheney, not at all. I am absolutely certain. Just sitting across from him for that brief encounter was enough.

[BlueWI]

81. Sure. I am not questioning your professionalism.

It's just a personal observation, but to me it seems like splitting hairs to debate on who's more sociopathic or who has capacity for growth. Others seem to feel that those personality profiles are relevant to how we should regard these figures after the fact. I'm much more interested in the lessons learned by leaders who are still in public - what have we learned that will prevent another Iraq? How many leaders are willing to stand against the president now in similar circumstances - even with the benefit of hindsight?

Plus, I am not likely to be involved in any social circle that involves GWB, and I would probably avoid him if he and I were present somewhere. So, I'm a bit more aligned in my thinking with the OP, and I have felt that way about past connections between the Clintons and Trump. It was ok to associate with Trump when his crimes were confined to denying black families equal housing, stiffing contractors, and contributing to the railroading of the Central Park 5. I am not one to shine things like this on just for the sake of socializing.

JMO.

[brush]

89. You interviewed the anti-Christ. That's the sense of dread you felt.

[treestar]

113. +1

Being polite in public amongst public figures is not a bad thing. People act like they should throw tomatoes. Or shoes. Not everyone reacts the same way to people they disagree with. You don't have to shun them. You might teach them something.

[ksoze]

6. Trump's greatest achievement: Bush now seems Presidential

The bar has been lowered so far that Bush can stop over it and appear to be great.

[demmiblue]

10. Yep. It is disgusting. n/t

[Javaman]

11. naaa, he's* still a stupid spoiled shit head.

he* was my gov and he's never changed.

the only way he* will ever appear to be presidential is if they erase all his fuck ups from our collective memory.

he* is and always be a fucking piece of shit moron

[Skittles]

83. no, he DOESN'T

Dubya is still the warmonger piece of shit he always was. People are still dying EVERY DAY because of W.

[treestar]

112. It says a lot about Drumpf that I can't get myself

to be mad at Dubya any more!

It's actually worse that Bill and Hillary were at Drumpf's wedding, though he probably was not as bad at that time.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. America loves its war criminals.

[rusty fender]

9. To paraphrase George Carlin:

It’s a small club and we aren’t in it.

[Unbelievable]

27. you

get it.

[sop]

60. George was right

All I see are two fabulously wealthy people schmoozing in a sky box belonging to another fabulously wealthy individual. These people stick together.

[bdamomma]

70. Exactly

only if George Carlin was still around he would of said Told you so!

and how they are coming for our health care, and social security,,, they are coming for it all!! He was so right.

[cwydro]

107. This.

Exactly.

[maryellen99]

12. Plus she's from New Orleans she should know better nt

[pintobean]

13. I'm sure that she's devistated

when anonymous internet posters lose respect for her.

What do you think about these women?

[pintobean]

61. I was told to go to

a different site for posting that.

[rockfordfile]

97. Don't like it

[cwydro]

108. Thank you.

I bet you get no replies from the ones shouting loudest about Ellen.

[Yavin4]

14. I saw that. Guess she forgot all about the 2004 election when they made it all about

marriage equality and appealing to bigots in Ohio.

[Ms. Toad]

16. Worthless, without context. n/t

[MineralMan]

17. Hmm...are you normally a big fan of hers?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

18. Honestly, with all the shit going on right now, I really couldn't care less about this.

This is such a pre-November 2016 story.

[TidalWave46]

19. I could sit next to Bush and enjoy myself.

He seems to be pretty fond of small talk.

I have a huge amount of respect for Ellen and it has nothing to do with Bush.

[obamanut2012]

20. whatever

[Shrike47]

21. Calm yourself. She was civil. Let's hope we all would be, rather than acting like jerks.

[rockfordfile]

37. Bush is a war criminal

[LanternWaste]

47. I don't think Ellen could have made a citizen's arrest.

(see? we both made statements devoid of context, hanging onto relevance by a finger-nail yet pretending it's substantial. I see why you do it... it's quite fun, like the day my Pet Rock arrived when I was eleven)

[rockfordfile]

99. It's about having respect to those that the war criminal killed. American soldiers that died

[UniteFightBack]

71. YAWN. nt

[rockfordfile]

98. You think it's a yawn that people lost theirs lives because of that war criminal?

[treestar]

110. He's not really

I did not agree with him and all, but he had the support of the country after 911 for that stuff. This country is very warlike. And no international tribunal has recognized this. Yeah I don't think we needed the Iraq war, but that doesn't make everyone in on it a "war criminal." That takes a lot more.

[rockfordfile]

114. From Bush to the PNAC group are war criminals. This has been known for years now

[Voltaire2]

43. She was his guest. This was not some random encounter.

She chose to associate with a person who campaigned to prevent her from getting married, a person who is a war criminal responsible for the murder of at least 100,000 people, and the torture of an unknown number of people.

So like no, fuck that. Lets hope we all stand up for what is right.

[Beringia]

46. I don't think she was his guest

I am learning more than I ever needed to know about this, but anyway.


Portia was invited by Charlotte Jones, daughter of Jerry Jones who owns the Dallas Cowboys. Charlotte Jones and Portia are both into contemporary art.

Link to tweet

[treestar]

111. So she was invited to the party, so was he

and you can't control your host's other choices. So she was civil. I don't see anything wrong with that. And his standing as "war criminal" has not been recognized by society internationally.

[Iggo]

67. ...is a wonderful thing!

[quickesst]

26. pretty sad to see....

.... so many people strutting their sense of moral superiority here at Democratic Underground, but also rather enlightening.

[ronnie624]

66. I'm morally superior to mass murderers, no doubt about it.

How does that "enlighten" you?

[quickesst]

85. I am sure....

.... you are indeed morally superior to mass murderers, but are you morally superior to Michelle and Barack Obama? Are you morally superior to Hillary Clinton? Most important of all, are you so all seeing, all-knowing to have the confidence to say you are morally superior to Ellen DeGeneres?

[ronnie624]

87. I am morally superior to those who commit atrocities,

and those who treat with them, as well.

[quickesst]

92. I understand

You believe yourself to be morally superior to Michelle Obama, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Ellen DeGeneres just to name four people. I absolutely believe that you believe that.

[rockfordfile]

100. You have fallen for what bushco is doing.

[gordianot]

28. Maybe she can do a skit on Game of Games where you throw shoes.

Three hits and you are out.

[qazplm135]

29. she won't care

that you won't care.

[LakeArenal]

30. I'd meet bushy.

I hated him then.

But I’d meet any ex prez. History is history.

I think it would be something to even meet Trump. Not sure I could be anyway respectful about the presidency itself that I would with Bush. Nor would I be able to hold my tongue with trump.

Still I would like to look them all in the eyes to see what I see in them

[nolabear]

33. How do you feel about Michelle Obama?

Just curious.

[Gothmog]

36. Others are also curious

Link to tweet

[Beringia]

42. and get banned from DU?

[Hortensis]

102. :) No kidding. I'd say toxic intolerance can be overdone.

And just was.

Imo, the OP is a dysfunctional reaction to reality. Public figures are supposed to behave like mannered people at any event. And so should the rest of us in general, though what can be considered appropriate may be looser for some, depending.

I'd be glad to "forgive" Michelle for all the times she went high, but of course she was always going high.

[treestar]

116. That's a good way to put it

If I saw Bush and were introduced to him, I'd be polite. Some people think we should shun him and throw tomatoes or something, but how will that help anything?

[Joe941]

121. Me too my friend... me too.

[Gothmog]

34. I agree with Ellen

I have friends who are republicans

Link to tweet

[rockfordfile]

39. Bush is a war criminal. A person that hates gay rights. A pos that tried to censor the music acts.

There's a entire list. To me it's like asking a African American to sit next to a racist KKK person at a event.

[LisaM]

53. I don't think he's against gay rights (or abortion), but he's willing to use those issues

for personal gain. That's what has always frustrated me about the Bushes. They put aside what I think are their own beliefs for poliitical gain.

[rockfordfile]

101. The Christian Coalition is one of his big supporters.

[treestar]

117. How will you convince people

to see the light if you refuse to ever speak to them or meet them?

[BlueWI]

84. Who doesn't have friends that are Republicans?

I do, but some of these friendships are not on particularly good terms right now. Getting saddled with a racist grifter as president due to the white majority in this country doesn't do much for cross-partisan friendship.

At the end of the day boundaries have to be crossed, and they will be. But it's certainly possible to build more dialogue and still respect that many of us are working from places of anger and pain and a strong desire for better governance that make relationships across the aisle difficult.

So in addition to yukking it up on TV, was there a conversation about climate action now? Or cuts in military spending to help us dig our way out of the debt left over from the Iraq fiasco? I get that people will socialize, but what we need is good governance, and we're a long way from that. If these friendships lead to true dialogue about public policy, that's great. If it's just an exclusive club of connected people, meh.

[NanceGreggs]

35. Yeah, this is really important shit.

[Ferrets are Cool]

95. So, we can ONLY post about IMPORTANT SHIT

in General Discussion now? I am so sorry. I promise I wont do it again.

[rockfordfile]

40. True Bush/gop are war criminals. We are still going through all of this crap today because of him

[Voltaire2]

44. And ignoring who said it, what exactly is wrong with what was said?

[melman]

64. She's right

[George II]

96. Sarandon enabled something far worse than bush by claiming trump would be better than Clinton.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

45. I'm disappointed in her for this

I don't want to necessarily say that she's "cancelled" to me, but if she could lay off of the George W. Bush "rehabilitation tour", that would be nice.

[LanternWaste]

48. It's a tough old world when people don't express hate the way we want them to.

Of course we lose our respect for them for not hating who we want, how we want, and when we want.

30 years of Hate Radio has taught us how to do that while maintaining the pretense we're The Good Guys.

[dustyscamp]

49. Do you lose respect for people who forgive murderers/rapists for hurting them or their family?

What about Michelle Obama she doesn't seem to hate Bush?

[FiveGoodMen]

50. Did Michelle forgive Bush on behalf of his many thousands of victims?

What gave her the right to do that?

[dustyscamp]

52. She probably hasn't forgiven him for that, but she accepts that Presidents have to make tough calls

Even if the actions are really bad. Maybe she respects him in some other ways we don't know about. He is more approachable than DTurd

[rockfordfile]

103. Bushco is a war criminal. This "approachable" is a scam for a reason.

[LisaM]

51. I will never forget that he used gay marriage as a wedge issue to win Ohio in 2004.

I'm surprised that Ellen did. Bush also stole an election from Al Gore with zero compunction. And he appointed the SCOTUS justices who essentially put Trump into office with their rulings on Citizens United and the VRA.

It's different for the Obamas and Clintons to socialize with Bush, IMO, because their circumstances positioned them in such a way that they have to deal with him.

I just can't forget 2000. It changed me forever, made me a much angrier person than I was.

[NCLefty]

119. I'm with you on this. Screw him forever for that.

[wryter2000]

54. I wish people would stop rehabilitating W

If he'd just been a bad president, that would be one thing. He created a war for nothing else than to win the 2004 election. Thousands of Americans died, and we don't even know how many Iraqis died. I guess in the hundreds of thousands.

And he tortured people. He's not just someone with different political views. And I wish Michelle Obama would stay away from him, too.

[BlueWI]

78. Agreed.

While it's an extremely difficult call without knowing the depth of this administration's compromising of Democratic processes, I think it's arguable that GWB was an even worse president than Trump. Near total economic collapse, pre-9/11 security lapses, air guitar during Hurricane Katrina, Mission Accomplished, Haliburton, Abu Grahib and Fallujah - the hits just kept coming!

[roamer65]

56. We are where we are now because of Shrub.

This is what war crimes and profiteering do to a nation.

[magicarpet]

109. Yes so true,...

The bushes, the cheneys, and the trDumps stir the muck and slime up from the bottom where they were forced to lay. Now this muck and slime is reactivated and floated to the top.

This has contaminated our body politic so not only have they poisoned our clean water, our drinking water, and our air we breath - this is the result when muck and slime are given free reign unencumbered in any way.

Oligarchic Fascism (wrapped in the AmeriKKKan flag and [Devil's]cross) becomes the inevitable result of our dysfunctional political and economic systems.

[Blue_true]

58. I like an occasional beef burger.

Does that mean I approve of the occasional sicko that abuses ill cattle at slaughterhouses?

[ronnie624]

69. Yes, that is exactly analogous to smooching with mass murderers. n/t

[Autumn]

59. Have you seen pictures of Michelle Obama with her good friend George Bush?

What is your opinion on that? Have you lost all respect for Michelle Obama? I know one fact, Michelle Obama cares about all those children that you referenced. So does Ellen.

[treestar]

115. I doubt she is actually his friend

She is only spending time with him in the events where all the Presidents and their wives are. She just has a little fun with him when they are at those events. There's no reason not to be polite.

[Autumn]

118. Yes he is her friend. She considers him a "beautiful, funny, kind, sweet man."

Polite? No, it's more than that. "Partners in crime " I love him to death." She is very open about how the friendship she has with him.

Former first lady Michelle Obama said that her oft-admired friendship with former President George W. Bush serves as a reminder of how relationships should be during a time when America only sees all the "nasty parts" of political discourse.

In an interview released Wednesday on NBC, Obama told Bush's daughter, Jenna Bush Hager, who is also a correspondent on "Today," that her relationship with Bush "reminds us that we can get there with the right leadership and with the right tone setting and with each of us giving one another the benefit of the doubt."

"I'd love if we as a country could get back to the place where we didn't demonize people who disagreed with us," she added. Bringing up a famous photo of the former president and Obama sharing a hug in 2016, Bush Hager asked Obama about her friendship with Bush

“Because I think the political discourse, the way it’s shown in the media, is…all the nasty parts of it. You know? Because I guess we’ve become a culture where the nasty sells. So people are just gonna keep feeding that. We’re all Americans. We all care about our family and our kids, and we’re trying’ to get ahead. And that’s how I feel about your father. You know? He’s a beautiful, funny, kind, sweet man.”

https://time.com/5454153/michelle-obama-on-george-w-bush/

Link to tweet

[treestar]

120. That does not say she spends any time with him

other than at events where ex-presidents gather.

Her assessment of his sweetness, etc., is based on that.

I recall people saying he'd be great to have a beer with and all that. He supported a war that we did not agree with. He's not like the current occupier of the WH. The Dotard is evil personally too; he would not start a war over anything that was supposedly for the benefit of national security; only for his own benefit.

[NCLefty]

62. He got thousands of Americans killed with a lie and tried to erase families like hers.

"But he's nice?"

She's a comedian-turned-talk-show host. I don't think too many people are relying on Ellen for the answers to life.

[Sewa]

65. Wrong! She's a spokesperson on gay

and lesbian issue. She has influence on many issues

[rockfordfile]

104. Her cred took a hit on all of that.

[a kennedy]

68. I was so pissed about this photo......

then I tried to be open minded about what Ellen said about not having the same political beliefs with GW Bush. AND thought, how can we as a country EVER HEAL WITH PAST, OLD, AND DIFFERENT beliefs EVER come together??? I think she might at least get the discussion started. Or......not and the country will never heal, will NEVER come together, and will forever be divided. And I swear to gawd, I WILL NEVER FORGIVE THAT ORANGE PIECE OF SHIT. So just forget what I just wrote about Ellen and her sitting net to GW Bush.

[UniteFightBack]

72. This post right here is PART of the got damn problem. nt

[Behind the Aegis]

90. +1

[Bettie]

73. FFS She was invited to the game and ended up sitting next to him

so, rather than create an ugly scene, she was a decent human being and didn't make the evening suck for her partner.

What should she have done?

[StClone]

82. The right to be outraged, or not, is personal

Bush is REALLY as bad as Trump. Millions of lives, and Trillions of dollars on a perverse lie so to be a War Prez. I have loved Ellen over the years and accept her acts of open congenially...BUT I can thoroughly question, and dislike, the display of friendship to Bush (as well as Obama, Clinton). I can do both.

[BlueWI]

93. +1000

This.

[Demonaut]

91. pariah

[cvoogt]

94. Her sentiment is good

.. but to apply it to everyone blindly seems wrong to me. Being friends with people who lied a coalition of countries into a war that resulted in hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths purely for (highly debatable) geopolitical and financial purposes. I'd say that qualifies as more than just a difference in opinion.

[Kurt V.]

106. they have something in common. They're rich. its about classes. all is forgiven

when you belong . same will happen when trump is out of office for s few yrs. he'll be on Ellen's show.