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jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:00 PM Aug 2019

The Pioneering Woman Of Science Whom DUers Are Going To Attack And Smear

The Chief Medical Examiner of the City of New York is no small-potatoes job. As one might imagine, it requires a person of the highest qualifications and integrity.

Dr. Barbara Sampson, the woman on the far right of the photograph below, was appointed in 2014 by Mayor Bill de Blasio, and is the first woman to occupy that office.





Dr. Sampson is also a trustee of the American Board of Pathology.

A native of New York City, Dr. Sampson earned her bachelor’s degree from Princeton University, obtained her Ph.D. in Molecular Biology at Rockefeller University, and received her degree in medicine at Cornell University Medical College, followed by a residency at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston.

She brings years of experience to her role as Chief Medical Examiner, having served as Acting Chief Medical Examiner, First Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Senior Medical Examiner, and Cardiovascular Pathology Consultant, among other positions at OCME since 1998.

She serves as President of the Society of Cardiovascular Pathology, the Vice-Chairman of the Residency Review Committee for Pathology of the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education, and is a member of the National Association of Medical Examiners, the United States and Canadian Academy of Pathology, and the American Academy of Forensic Sciences.

Dr. Sampson has published widely on forensic pathology and microbiology, including 29 articles and 4 book chapters, and serves as an Associate Editor of the journal Cardiovascular Pathology. She is the recipient of the Young Investigator Award from the Society of Cardiovascular Pathology and the E.R. Squibb and Sons Senior Thesis Prize for Contribution to Scientific Research. Dr. Sampson is board certified in Anatomic and Clinical Pathology and Forensic Pathology and is participating in Maintenance of Certification.

-----

Go ahead and smear her your best, DU. What sum of money do you suppose she decided to cash in a lifetime of integrity for? Post how much you think it took.

Tell me how much it takes to buy off a leading woman scientist, who was educated and came up through the ranks when science was a much more male-dominated profession, and who no doubt was discouraged by men every step of the way, in order to cover up the crimes of a man who was credibly accused of molesting girls.

I want to know what you have to do to get a woman to trade in her integrity for a job like that, so please let me know how much money you think it takes.

And, shame on you.

-----------

On edit: I have been advised to clarify that "DUers" means "persons who post to DU". It does not mean "all DUers", just as references to, for example, "white people" do not always mean "all white people". Given that I am also a DUer, one might think the meaning of the phrase was clear, but apparently not. If the comment does not apply to you, then have a great day!

166 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Pioneering Woman Of Science Whom DUers Are Going To Attack And Smear (Original Post) jberryhill Aug 2019 OP
For those who are utterly (udderly) confused about jberryhill's OP True Dough Aug 2019 #1
Oh, DUers are already calling her a liar jberryhill Aug 2019 #2
You know how people behave. Blue_true Aug 2019 #71
Thanks for this explanation mcar Aug 2019 #9
. jberryhill Aug 2019 #11
Yeah, I was just looking at that mcar Aug 2019 #12
I may be a little early jberryhill Aug 2019 #13
Yes, we will mcar Aug 2019 #17
Thank you. I was completely puzzled by the OP. PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2019 #27
How could you be puzzled? Blue_true Aug 2019 #76
I am not obsessing enough about Epstein PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2019 #98
Ok, thanks. nt Blue_true Aug 2019 #142
"to be hanging on such details" True Dough Aug 2019 #143
I missed that one! Steelrolled Aug 2019 #160
oh, okay, I thought that was it but wasn't sure. I have no problem believing he offed himself yaesu Aug 2019 #65
Thank you, I was utterly confused. BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2019 #108
But the situation is being milked by some True Dough Aug 2019 #144
True, Doh! BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2019 #165
Thanks . i was in the confused category. Kurt V. Aug 2019 #110
Thanks. I was WTF about the OP aikoaiko Aug 2019 #148
wtf ? stonecutter357 Aug 2019 #3
Those results and samples go through MuseRider Aug 2019 #4
Yep mrs_p Aug 2019 #52
Exactly. MuseRider Aug 2019 #118
Uh......sorry?... Aristus Aug 2019 #5
She has ruled Epstein's death a suicide by hanging jberryhill Aug 2019 #6
Not me. I'm scientist. Aristus Aug 2019 #136
She's a tool StarfishSaver Aug 2019 #7
You seem to be the one in attack mode. Claritie Pixie Aug 2019 #8
. jberryhill Aug 2019 #10
Deal with them as they pop up, but don't generalize which you've done in your OP. Claritie Pixie Aug 2019 #19
Generalize? jberryhill Aug 2019 #25
I get it, I do. Claritie Pixie Aug 2019 #28
Her autopsy conclusion is likely a minority opinion here jberryhill Aug 2019 #29
Let's see how valid a "generalization" it may be jberryhill Aug 2019 #54
Agreed. TwilightZone Aug 2019 #57
attacking your fellow posters NJCher Aug 2019 #121
Did you see the edit? jberryhill Aug 2019 #126
Her life could've been threatened by Putin's violent white supremacist whore Donald Trump uponit7771 Aug 2019 #14
Ah yes, calling her a coward. Of course. jberryhill Aug 2019 #16
Not a coward I understand if she's scared of a violent white supremacist president of America uponit7771 Aug 2019 #20
Too bad she wouldn't have thought of keeping any, you know... jberryhill Aug 2019 #23
True, a dead mans switch ?! Isn't that CT stuff there JBerr? uponit7771 Aug 2019 #24
No, it is not CT stuff jberryhill Aug 2019 #26
This is true. So Epstein's death was stage to look like a suicide ,.. figures uponit7771 Aug 2019 #32
Attaboy Uponit7771 jberryhill Aug 2019 #34
lol... pulling your leg uponit7771 Aug 2019 #80
Are you serious? yardwork Aug 2019 #36
Are you?!?!?! uponit7771 Aug 2019 #81
DU rec... SidDithers Aug 2019 #15
Look at the post above yours jberryhill Aug 2019 #18
I Attack And Smear them - they carry Barr's and Trump's water jpak Aug 2019 #21
Your honesty is a virtue jberryhill Aug 2019 #42
Thank you for providing her credentials. Yonnie3 Aug 2019 #22
That's kinda how it is when women start make no incursions into calimary Aug 2019 #31
Never let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory. The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2019 #30
Thanks for this thread. GulfCoast66 Aug 2019 #33
Oh I doubt it jberryhill Aug 2019 #35
Good OP. yardwork Aug 2019 #37
Thank you jberryhill Aug 2019 #38
Good on you. Also, some folks don't seem to realize that she doesn't report to Barr. yardwork Aug 2019 #40
I would be willing to wager that the majority of DU posters will forego attacking elevator48 Aug 2019 #39
Won't see me attacking or smearing her. SouthernProgressive Aug 2019 #41
K&R. WhiskeyGrinder Aug 2019 #43
I don't see what her gender has to do with it dflprincess Aug 2019 #44
"a government explanation" jberryhill Aug 2019 #46
IN all honesty, I don think you get it. world wide wally Aug 2019 #61
She doesn't work for Bill Barr jberryhill Aug 2019 #62
I believe people think he is doing what he did with the Mueller Report and fudging results world wide wally Aug 2019 #66
Who is the "he" here? jberryhill Aug 2019 #67
Show me where I said the DeBlasio administration was in on it dflprincess Aug 2019 #70
"Never ask questions" jberryhill Aug 2019 #88
Post removed Post removed Aug 2019 #45
A post about an accomplished woman appointed by a Democratic mayor... jberryhill Aug 2019 #47
No... you do. JeaneRaye Aug 2019 #49
The argument seems to be if he had broken bones in his neck he was strangled and not hung ... marble falls Aug 2019 #69
The hyoid bone is not a vertebra jberryhill Aug 2019 #74
Where in the fuck did I say it was. Please reread my post. I said even though Epstein didn't have .. marble falls Aug 2019 #96
I didn't say you said it was jberryhill Aug 2019 #97
No, a broad-brush attack against DU'ers. Fozzledick Aug 2019 #59
I'm sorry, what do you call people who post things on DU? jberryhill Aug 2019 #64
... demmiblue Aug 2019 #48
Your post offers a quite abstract though dataless view of the autopsy results. defacto7 Aug 2019 #50
I see what you did there. I'm with you. nt UniteFightBack Aug 2019 #51
I see what you did there ChubbyStar Aug 2019 #130
What surprises me SCVDem Aug 2019 #53
I imagine that would depend.... jberryhill Aug 2019 #56
So, ignore them. TwilightZone Aug 2019 #55
Why should I or anyone ignore attacks on a top scientist appointed by Democratic administration? jberryhill Aug 2019 #58
Try math. TwilightZone Aug 2019 #156
You seem to believe I care about convincing anyone of anything jberryhill Aug 2019 #157
Some of those here will miss the point that his suicide TNNurse Aug 2019 #60
this is the problem with conspiracy theories...... Takket Aug 2019 #63
It's safe to accept that not everyone Turbineguy Aug 2019 #68
I'm not going to get worked up over shit-stirring posts jmbar2 Aug 2019 #72
People who post at DU are DUers jberryhill Aug 2019 #77
Great OP, JBerry, I agree with everything you've posted on this thread. marble falls Aug 2019 #73
This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Aug 2019 #75
did she identify the body? rampartc Aug 2019 #78
Ah, yes, the old body switcheroo jberryhill Aug 2019 #79
the records cpild have easily be switched rampartc Aug 2019 #82
Of course! jberryhill Aug 2019 #86
precisely rampartc Aug 2019 #163
I worked in a jail. xmas74 Aug 2019 #162
is it anyone's job to supervise these guys? rampartc Aug 2019 #164
The supervisor is just as overworked. xmas74 Aug 2019 #166
I'm a DUer and am not attacking her lunatica Aug 2019 #83
Where did I say "most" jberryhill Aug 2019 #84
The last three paragraphs you posted are an attack on DU lunatica Aug 2019 #87
All of us? Me too? jberryhill Aug 2019 #89
Nice try blaming me for what you wrote lunatica Aug 2019 #106
apparently you didn't say "some" which means the same thing as "all" Takket Aug 2019 #92
Well how come that is understood when people say things about "white people"? jberryhill Aug 2019 #94
You said, "Go ahead and smear her your best, DU. " pnwmom Aug 2019 #93
Me too? jberryhill Aug 2019 #95
If you hadn't been trying to slam DU, you should have omitted the word "DU." pnwmom Aug 2019 #101
Since you don't get the reference, maybe this will help jberryhill Aug 2019 #122
You're just trying to distract. The point is that you could and should have left the word DU pnwmom Aug 2019 #131
We shall see what the majority opinion is, as time goes forward jberryhill Aug 2019 #133
The point is you needlessly included the word "DU" in those sentences pnwmom Aug 2019 #141
There are certain DUers (and yes, the OP is a DUer much as he/she might not like the label).... RhodeIslandOne Aug 2019 #149
Ya think? pnwmom Aug 2019 #151
If I'm not mistaken, your first pic ... Whiskeytide Aug 2019 #85
I have no problems with the autopsy. I blame the jailers pnwmom Aug 2019 #90
All I see is you denigrating posters here who are skeptical flotsam Aug 2019 #91
You don't see the photographs and biography of a remarkably accomplished medical scientist? jberryhill Aug 2019 #100
What has that to do with the information I asked for? flotsam Aug 2019 #105
You want fries with that? jberryhill Aug 2019 #111
Are you saying the NYC M.E. is incompetent? Ptah Aug 2019 #103
I am asking for proof flotsam Aug 2019 #112
Why don't you trust the NYC M.E.? Ptah Aug 2019 #113
Why don't you let the poster have his/her say? ChubbyStar Aug 2019 #137
Did they say that? ChubbyStar Aug 2019 #138
So you're qualified to render a Professional .. MicaelS Aug 2019 #127
I don't know how you are so certain. JudyM Aug 2019 #99
So, is it the ME's office or the De Blasio administration generally... jberryhill Aug 2019 #104
Neither, necessarily. She is in the lion's den with DOJ. Why did Barr unrecuse? JudyM Aug 2019 #116
SHE IS NOT EMPLOYED BY THE DOJ jberryhill Aug 2019 #119
I know that. But Barr is all over this. JudyM Aug 2019 #120
Mayor Bill De Blasio Let Barr Decide What The ME Of NYC Would Write? jberryhill Aug 2019 #124
What if it's a question of judgment? JudyM Aug 2019 #128
Then Dr. Sampson would exercise her best profesional judgment jberryhill Aug 2019 #129
Well, you seem unequivocally certain that there was no foul play. For me, I'll wait and see. JudyM Aug 2019 #132
That's quite a stretch jberryhill Aug 2019 #135
Pathologists do their job diligently BlueMississippi Aug 2019 #102
epstien could figure out he might get an easier prison if he ratted on everyone but certainot Aug 2019 #107
all they/barr/etc had to do is give him the opportunity certainot Aug 2019 #123
Or maybe not arrest and jail him in the first place jberryhill Aug 2019 #125
I have no problem with her conclusion. riversedge Aug 2019 #109
Dr. Michael Baden was also present at the Epstein autopsy. Ramsey Barner Aug 2019 #114
Thank you for the heads-up. I had no idea this was coming up... Hekate Aug 2019 #115
What an absolutely fantastic smackdown of CT. MicaelS Aug 2019 #117
sounds like you're trying to pick a fight Hermit-The-Prog Aug 2019 #134
Well, I'm glad pathology was more on the ball than the prison administrators. Crunchy Frog Aug 2019 #139
Do you discount the possibility that he was allowed to commit suicide? Brawndo Aug 2019 #140
That possibility was not excluded by the OP or the ME, and was not part of the autopsy still_one Aug 2019 #147
what is really telling is Biden in the top picture with the ME. Obviously, he killed Epstein, and still_one Aug 2019 #145
You can support your position without smearing DUers SharonClark Aug 2019 #146
Did you miss this note? jberryhill Aug 2019 #150
Lots of hostility here Cousin Dupree Aug 2019 #152
LOL, ok! nt USALiberal Aug 2019 #153
This particular DU poster understood your meaning. guillaumeb Aug 2019 #154
see below Demonaut Aug 2019 #155
Forget it Jake, Codeine Aug 2019 #158
instead of acting.... quickesst Aug 2019 #159
Do I believe her findings? xmas74 Aug 2019 #161

True Dough

(17,567 posts)
1. For those who are utterly (udderly) confused about jberryhill's OP
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:03 PM
Aug 2019

Dr. Sampson oversaw the autopsy on Jeffrey Epstein.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
71. You know how people behave.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:46 PM
Aug 2019

I guess there was a desire to find a conspiracy. The Examiner's work blows part of that possibility out of the water, so some are disappointed.

The Chief Medical Examiner does have an impressive resume. I see no reason why she would throw away an impressive lifetime of work to help scumbags cover up a murder.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
13. I may be a little early
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:17 PM
Aug 2019

But once that news gets wider circulation, we will be hearing from the usual suspects that she is corrupt.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
76. How could you be puzzled?
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:51 PM
Aug 2019

The OP gave the context of the Doctor's job in the first paragraph. Even I knew that Epstein was given an autopsy in the New York Medical Examiner's office and to tell the truth, I have spent most of this week with my head up my ass. So you should certainly have been able to connect the dots with the information the OP gave and knowledge of current events.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,007 posts)
98. I am not obsessing enough about Epstein
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:11 PM
Aug 2019

to be hanging on such details. I knew that an autopsy had been done but didn't bother to remember exactly where it was done or by whom.

yaesu

(8,020 posts)
65. oh, okay, I thought that was it but wasn't sure. I have no problem believing he offed himself
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:41 PM
Aug 2019

But the prison and Barr are guilty of negligence.

MuseRider

(34,218 posts)
4. Those results and samples go through
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:07 PM
Aug 2019

a whole lot of people. I am sure there are pathologists who could get away with stuff but I do not know any who would want to try. I used to work in a lab before I became a nurse. It would be hard for results to go out without more than just the pathologist knowing the results. They all go through the results on big cases and agree on the results. It would probably not be impossible but I would think that with a big case they would all be checking each other to be certain nothing is missed.

mrs_p

(3,017 posts)
52. Yep
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:33 PM
Aug 2019

I’m a vet path. Assuming paths for (only ) humans are similar, that’s what we do for any high profile case or necropsy/autopsy that will have major implications (i.e., litigation, quarantine, cull). Rarely does a path want all that on his/her shoulders alone.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
6. She has ruled Epstein's death a suicide by hanging
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:11 PM
Aug 2019

You want to see DUers calling her a liar?

Go here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142355877

I am at DU. And they will be lining up to call her a corrupt liar just as soon as the news is more widely published.

I will bet you that most of them will assume the ME is a "he" while they are at it.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
25. Generalize?
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:24 PM
Aug 2019

The two who have popped up in this thread... are they not DUers?

I wanted to have a one-stop link in order to refer to her credentials, instead of having to cut and paste each time.

Oh, and one of our members believes she's a coward.

Claritie Pixie

(2,199 posts)
28. I get it, I do.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:30 PM
Aug 2019

BUT -

Your thread title:

"The Pioneering Woman Of Science Whom DUers Are Going To Attack And Smear"

and this statement:

"Go ahead and smear her your best, DU."

are indeed generalizations and totally unnecessary.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
29. Her autopsy conclusion is likely a minority opinion here
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:34 PM
Aug 2019

If the run of posts is any indication, I will bet you that the majority sentiment at DU is likely to be that she is lying.

That's the way these things work.

The warden was bribed to take him off of suicide watch. The guards were paid to sleep. Everyone was either bribed or threatened into making it appear that a federal facility was running on an inadequate budget with insufficient and lackluster personnel. Can you imagine such a thing?
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
54. Let's see how valid a "generalization" it may be
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:33 PM
Aug 2019

I'm going to use this spot as a place to do some counting:

In addition to the ones in this very thread, including the entertaining yet brief "Post Removed" we have some early results streaming in...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212385307

"Just have to wonder who told the M.E. to call it a suicide"

"I'll bet he said Epstein has never looked better"

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142355877

"And JFK was killed by a lone shooter"

"Too convenient"

"It is a coverup"

NJCher

(36,153 posts)
121. attacking your fellow posters
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:37 PM
Aug 2019

is a poor way to make your point.

What is your goal?

Do you think people are going to want to listen to you after you've attacked them?



 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
126. Did you see the edit?
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:40 PM
Aug 2019

If the comments do not apply to you, then they do not apply to you.

See, e.g. "not all white people" - https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=%22not+all+white+people%22+site%3Ademocraticunderground.com

What is interesting is the number of people who have their knickers in a twist over the choice of phrase used to refer to "persons who post to DU" versus the number of people who are impressed by Dr. Sampson's qualifications.

Oddly, a number of people have rec'd and otherwise approved this post. I can't imagine who they might be.

uponit7771

(90,442 posts)
14. Her life could've been threatened by Putin's violent white supremacist whore Donald Trump
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:19 PM
Aug 2019

More probable than usually to be true and no smear.

Thread dead?

tia

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
16. Ah yes, calling her a coward. Of course.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:20 PM
Aug 2019

Evidence from her office has been used to lock up mob killers, drug gangsters, and the lowest of the lowlife imaginable in NYC.

But this time they got to her.

And you are going to go with that?

Too bad she couldn't have kept any, you know, EVIDENCE of being threatened, since that wouldn't have occurred to her.

uponit7771

(90,442 posts)
20. Not a coward I understand if she's scared of a violent white supremacist president of America
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:21 PM
Aug 2019

...
Thread dead?

tia

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
23. Too bad she wouldn't have thought of keeping any, you know...
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:22 PM
Aug 2019
EVIDENCE of having been threatened.

Since her entire life revolves around evidence of crimes.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
26. No, it is not CT stuff
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:28 PM
Aug 2019

But if you are going to threaten someone, you need to make sure of three things:

1. That your threat will be believed,

2. That your threat will work, and

3. That your threat will not leave any evidence in the event that it doesn't work.

1 and 3 are in tension with each other.

Remarkably, officials get threatened by all sorts of people all of the time. A high-ranking official of the administration of Bill de Blasio is very unlikely to simply fold and falsify a report on an autopsy that had a number of sets of eyeballs - including an outside expert and former CME of NYC - on it.

Were they all threatened?

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
34. Attaboy Uponit7771
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:43 PM
Aug 2019



It's a good thing that the people who staged it managed to do such a good job that Dr. Sampson couldn't tell the difference!

All of that book-learnin' ain't worth a dang, is it.

So, when one is doing these things, is there some set of rules which determines who gets paid off and who gets threatened instead?

I can see why Avenatti is looking to you for help with all of those works in progress you were on about.

Everything that looks the way it is has merely been staged to look the way it is.

Yonnie3

(17,626 posts)
22. Thank you for providing her credentials.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:22 PM
Aug 2019

it saves me having to look them up. They are quite impressive. I was around some MD plus PHD candidates in the early 70s. The few women in that mainly male course of study were incredibly intelligent and had backbones of steel.

calimary

(82,054 posts)
31. That's kinda how it is when women start make no incursions into
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:36 PM
Aug 2019

territory that had previously been male-dominated. I found that to be true in a different line of work.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(116,661 posts)
30. Never let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:35 PM
Aug 2019

Also, never assume incompetence to be the cause of anything if a believing a conspiracy theory is more fun, and never try shaving with Bill Ockham's razor.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
35. Oh I doubt it
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:46 PM
Aug 2019

It is simply that her conclusion was leaked and has made some news. When her report is released, you can bank on an all-out assault against her.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
38. Thank you
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:51 PM
Aug 2019

I was impressed by her qualifications, and thought it would be a good idea for people to know who is being called a liar.

yardwork

(62,058 posts)
40. Good on you. Also, some folks don't seem to realize that she doesn't report to Barr.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:55 PM
Aug 2019

I'm constantly surprised by how many people don't understand the fundamental details of how our government works. Federal, state, and local agencies just seem to blur together in many people's minds.

 

elevator48

(53 posts)
39. I would be willing to wager that the majority of DU posters will forego attacking
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:52 PM
Aug 2019

this woman, who is evidently well qualified to give her professional opinion. I certainly will not disparage her or her findings. But, I will point out that the history of high profile, and lesser cases, is replete with conflicting opinions regarding autopsy results, from a myriad of experts. I always believe the more qualified people who look at the evidence the better, within reason. Accusing someone with having an agenda in their findings without any proof of questionable motives is ignorant behavior. Reserving final judgement and examining all details and permutations of the scientific results is legitimate.

 

SouthernProgressive

(1,810 posts)
41. Won't see me attacking or smearing her.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 05:56 PM
Aug 2019

Epstein is the morally and ethically corrupt piece of shit. I’m sure the medical examiner would rather have no affiliation with any of this.

dflprincess

(28,143 posts)
44. I don't see what her gender has to do with it
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:19 PM
Aug 2019

And I don't see why you're surprised people remain skeptical. We've all seen far too many events like this that protect the status quo.

On the other hand, there are some who've never heard a government explanation they weren't willing to promote.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
46. "a government explanation"
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:24 PM
Aug 2019

So, the administration of Mayor de Blasio is in on it, in your view?

Do I understand you correctly?

world wide wally

(21,762 posts)
61. IN all honesty, I don think you get it.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:37 PM
Aug 2019

The problem isn't her, it's that nobody here trusts Bill Barr (for good reason)

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
62. She doesn't work for Bill Barr
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:37 PM
Aug 2019

She doesn't work for the federal government.

She works for the City of New York, which happens to be governed by a Democrat who appointed her.

Please explain the relevance of Bill Barr to that?
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
67. Who is the "he" here?
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:44 PM
Aug 2019

Neither Barr nor anyone else in the DoJ would have any involvement whatsoever in the conduct or report of an autopsy undertaken by the Chief Medical Examiner of the City of New York.

Explain to me how that would even work.

dflprincess

(28,143 posts)
70. Show me where I said the DeBlasio administration was in on it
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:46 PM
Aug 2019

On it. Saying no one is immune to threats doesn't mean the threat came from the inside.

I do find it curious that there are people who will always buy the official story and never ask questions.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
88. "Never ask questions"
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:01 PM
Aug 2019

My first question on hearing of the report was "who is this person?" so I looked it up and posted it.

But, if you are referring to the Chief Medical Examiner of the City of New York, then the "official story" to which you are referring is that of the De Blasio administration.

There used to be a rule at DU about attacking Democrats. I see it no longer matters, just in time for the election.

Response to jberryhill (Original post)

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
47. A post about an accomplished woman appointed by a Democratic mayor...
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:25 PM
Aug 2019

...belongs on a "right wing site"?

You're going to have to try harder.

marble falls

(58,913 posts)
69. The argument seems to be if he had broken bones in his neck he was strangled and not hung ...
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:45 PM
Aug 2019

when the objective is to break ones neck being hung. That Epstein didn't have a drop to break his vertebra, the fact is he was strangled by his noose and it broke bones the same way strangulation would have.

Its no secret and its been op'd here in the past the many suicide watch jail inmates in this country who commit suicide because of lazy/undermanned/overworked staff.

Some people need to apply Occam's razor to this event.

I agree with everything JBerry's posted about this.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
74. The hyoid bone is not a vertebra
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:49 PM
Aug 2019

It is a small bone in the front of the neck below the chin, and is relatively easily broken:



It is usually protected by the jaw.

And, as you note, it is not some kind of indicator that someone was strangled by another person:

Brooklynite posted this studiously-ignored article:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12385016

marble falls

(58,913 posts)
96. Where in the fuck did I say it was. Please reread my post. I said even though Epstein didn't have ..
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:09 PM
Aug 2019

the drop required to break his vertebra, the noose sill broke bones in his neck. And I believe if he were leaning forward as he hung he certainly would have, he had a great chance to break his Hyoid. I've seen a few photos of jailhouse hangings and they tend to be leaning forward when they're found.

I consulted with my sister when she represented a family suing Harris County after deputies killed and then hung an inmate. And I got to see the photo of a farmer who had hung himself off a line that didn't get his feet off the ground in Iowa just before the bank was going to auction his farm. And a nephew hung himself on the clothesline in my cousin's basement.

I don't need to see anymore hanging photos the rest of my life.

Sheesh, dude I AGREE with you. And we both know how unusual that is.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
97. I didn't say you said it was
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:10 PM
Aug 2019

I simply added the point about the bone in question for precision.

You might consider the meaning of the phrase "as you note" in my post, indicating general agreement.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
64. I'm sorry, what do you call people who post things on DU?
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:39 PM
Aug 2019

I don't know what else to call "people who post things on DU".

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
50. Your post offers a quite abstract though dataless view of the autopsy results.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:30 PM
Aug 2019

I hadn't heard. I still haven't.

 

SCVDem

(5,103 posts)
53. What surprises me
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:33 PM
Aug 2019

is how fast the tox results came in.

Usually they take about three weeks on average.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
56. I imagine that would depend....
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:34 PM
Aug 2019

...on whether the ME in question has an in-house lab or has to send out.

TwilightZone

(25,702 posts)
55. So, ignore them.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:34 PM
Aug 2019

Clearly, you've been here a long time, so you should know by now that DU has its share of contrarians, skeptics, and conspiracy theory enthusiasts. This is nothing new, and Epstein is just the latest CT du jour.

But those posters are generally a small part of the overall population. I'm not sure how making broad generalizations about DU as though everyone is like that accomplishes anything.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
58. Why should I or anyone ignore attacks on a top scientist appointed by Democratic administration?
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:35 PM
Aug 2019

"But those posters are generally a small part of the overall population"

Ah, may I see your Generalization License?

And could you let me know where I can get one?

TwilightZone

(25,702 posts)
156. Try math.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 10:43 PM
Aug 2019

There are hundreds or thousands of active posters on DU. The ones who are advancing CTs about Epstein's autopsy are a tiny fraction of that. Simple math.

Even among those who are posting on the topic, the same few posters seem to be the ones pushing the most outlandish theories.

You seem to think that condescension and lumping everyone into nice, neat groups is going to convince people of your positions. It's likely to do the opposite, as it clearly has in this thread.

As others have noted, I think you're just trying to stir shit up. Mission accomplished.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
157. You seem to believe I care about convincing anyone of anything
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 10:46 PM
Aug 2019

And yet, bizarrely, the number of people rec'ing or otherwise commending the sentiment of the OP in their replies, outnumbers the ones critical of it.

There. Math. I tried it.

TNNurse

(6,974 posts)
60. Some of those here will miss the point that his suicide
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:36 PM
Aug 2019

was enabled by incompetence or an intentional plan to take him off suicide watch. It does not mean others were not involved.

Takket

(21,919 posts)
63. this is the problem with conspiracy theories......
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:38 PM
Aug 2019

once someone makes up their mind that a conspiracy has taken place, no amount of evidence produced can ever change their mind, because the evidence is part of the conspiracy. So since we all despise drumpf/Barr, we assume they had Epstein killed, and therefor no other evidence makes an difference.

BTW... this is the EXACT same reasoning MAGAts use to conclude that bill and Hillary had epstein murdered, and the exact same reason none of them will chance their mind.

The replies to the OP in this thread are very upsetting. Makes me think DU is nothing more than freeperville seen through blue colored glasses instead of red.

Turbineguy

(37,576 posts)
68. It's safe to accept that not everyone
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:44 PM
Aug 2019

in every level of government is trumps whore.

In fact, the many vacant posts in the trump administration indicate there's an acute shortage of trump whores and it may be growing.

jmbar2

(5,056 posts)
72. I'm not going to get worked up over shit-stirring posts
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:46 PM
Aug 2019

The majority of DUers aren't making judgements over this person's judgment. If some do, it's just the nature of a public forum.

I don't see why you started this thread criticizing DUers for the comments of a few.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
77. People who post at DU are DUers
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:51 PM
Aug 2019

I did not say "all", and I did not even say "most".

But they are certainly members of this site.

Response to jberryhill (Original post)

rampartc

(5,620 posts)
78. did she identify the body?
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:52 PM
Aug 2019

i'm willing to accept that the person she examined somehow managed to hang himself, maybe with a little encouragement.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
79. Ah, yes, the old body switcheroo
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:53 PM
Aug 2019

Because Epstein had no medical or dental history which would have been evident in an examination.

Brilliant!

rampartc

(5,620 posts)
82. the records cpild have easily be switched
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:55 PM
Aug 2019

I think you are underestimating what money can accomplish.

2 guards asleep on the job?

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
86. Of course!
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:58 PM
Aug 2019

So you're in the "Epstein is still alive" camp, yes?

Because if Epstein is not dead, then why go find someone of his approximate age and description, find that person's medical records, forge them all in Epstein's name and then hang him, when you have a perfectly good Epstein sitting in a jail cell?

The reason to do that is to keep him alive and spirit him away in the confusion, is that it?

rampartc

(5,620 posts)
163. precisely
Sat Aug 17, 2019, 03:01 AM
Aug 2019

killing Epstein (or his suicide) does not stop the release of his "material," video from his years of entertaining the rich and famous.

no one who matters wants Epstein dead. they just want him quiet.

xmas74

(29,693 posts)
162. I worked in a jail.
Sat Aug 17, 2019, 02:52 AM
Aug 2019

Guards sleeping isn't unheard of. Multiple guards sleeping? Not unheard of, especially in this day and age of people working multiple jobs just to pay their bills.

I saw guards napping in empty cells, locker rooms, cafeteria/break room, in transport vehicles-anywhere they could catch a few zzz.

xmas74

(29,693 posts)
166. The supervisor is just as overworked.
Sat Aug 17, 2019, 03:33 PM
Aug 2019

It's not uncommon to see them also working security at a Walmart, sporting events,etc. They're just as exhausted.

Public sector jobs don't pay well. People do what they can to survive. If it means working three jobs and cat naps at one, so be it.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
83. I'm a DUer and am not attacking her
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:55 PM
Aug 2019

Frankly I resent the broad brush that paints most DUers as sinners because a handful are not too smart. Generalizations are pretty lazy ways to make your point.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
84. Where did I say "most"
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:56 PM
Aug 2019

People who post things on DU are DUers.

I did not say "all DUers" and I did not say "all white people" either. Okay?

If it does not apply to you, it does not apply to you.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
89. All of us? Me too?
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:02 PM
Aug 2019

I posted a thread attacking myself?

If the comments do not apply to you, then they do not apply to you.

Just like "white people" or anything else.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
94. Well how come that is understood when people say things about "white people"?
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:08 PM
Aug 2019

There are going to be things posted to DU which attack Dr. Sampson's integrity.

In fact, there already have been things posted to DU which attack Dr. Sampson's integrity.

Dr. Sampson is a highly ranking official of the De Blasio administration. There used to be a rule at DU about attacking Democrats, but I doubt that is going to be applied in this case.

But I really don't know what to call "people who post things to DU" other than "DUers".

Who, in their right mind, would read that as "everybody at DU is going to post something attacking Dr. Sampson's credibility"?

That doesn't even make sense.

pnwmom

(109,068 posts)
93. You said, "Go ahead and smear her your best, DU. "
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:05 PM
Aug 2019

You didn't limit your comments to a small group, or any group, or DUers. You slammed the site in general.

pnwmom

(109,068 posts)
101. If you hadn't been trying to slam DU, you should have omitted the word "DU."
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:13 PM
Aug 2019
The Pioneering Woman Of Science Whom Some Are Going To Attack And Smear

Go ahead and smear her your best.



All you had to do was leave off the word "DU" from those sentences. Then your post would have been a challenge to anyone who might have been considering blaming her -- not a challenge to DU in general, which is what your sentence was, as written.


ON UPDATE: I'm not sure what you're getting at with your reference to "white people," but neither of your sentences slamming DU would have been okay if you had substituted "white people" or "black people." But if you had left off the word DU -- or any other reference to a group -- then your statements would logically only apply to people who actually were engaging in the conduct you are criticizing.

pnwmom

(109,068 posts)
131. You're just trying to distract. The point is that you could and should have left the word DU
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:51 PM
Aug 2019

out of the post, if you weren't trying to deliberately insult DU.

White people are more likely than other races, as a group, to support Trump.

HOWEVER, there is zero evidence that DUers are more likely, as a group, to disparage the Medical Examiner. Your analogy fails.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
133. We shall see what the majority opinion is, as time goes forward
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:53 PM
Aug 2019

Nonetheless you are reading the word "most" in where it is certainly not written.

The people who rec'd this thread are also DUers.

pnwmom

(109,068 posts)
141. The point is you needlessly included the word "DU" in those sentences
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 08:12 PM
Aug 2019

when it didn't add to the logic or grammatical simplicity of either sentence.

People anywhere, on DU and off, might have the view that you described.

 

RhodeIslandOne

(5,042 posts)
149. There are certain DUers (and yes, the OP is a DUer much as he/she might not like the label)....
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 09:36 PM
Aug 2019

....who seem to relish in sniffing down on many others here, like they are above it all. The same ones, every time.

Whiskeytide

(4,473 posts)
85. If I'm not mistaken, your first pic ...
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 06:58 PM
Aug 2019

... proves she is a character on Law and Order SVU. Clearly a Soros funded crisis actor hired by the Illuminati to protect chem trail manufacturers at Monsanto from vaccination toxins and pizza.

Biden too. Damn. I always suspected he wasn’t real.

pnwmom

(109,068 posts)
90. I have no problems with the autopsy. I blame the jailers
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:02 PM
Aug 2019

who took Epstein's roommate away, and left him alone in the room with the means to hang himself -- after a previous attempt to hang himself.

flotsam

(3,268 posts)
91. All I see is you denigrating posters here who are skeptical
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:03 PM
Aug 2019

For myself I would like to see all the autopsy with photos, photos of the cell and drawings of his body position as found. Perhaps then my skepticism will be allayed. But I assure you your words and attitude will not.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
111. You want fries with that?
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:18 PM
Aug 2019

Thus far, the conclusion was leaked, as reported in other news linked in this thread.

As far as when or whether the report will be published generally would depend, I guess, on the policy of the City of New York in relation to autopsy reports.

I seriously doubt that any mass media are going to publish a "how to kill yourself by strangulation without suspending your body" manual, but that's just my guess at this time.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
127. So you're qualified to render a Professional ..
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:40 PM
Aug 2019

Opinion based on the evidence? That must mean you are an MD, DO or ME.


JudyM

(29,406 posts)
99. I don't know how you are so certain.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:12 PM
Aug 2019

I agree that baseless aspersions are unfair.

However, research in ethical behavior in business settings is clear that, given personally compelling circumstances and immersed in a culture that will accept it, a person’s apparent ethical stature isn’t dispositive of whether they will make ethical decisions. That is why it is essential to have an organizational culture that supports ethical decision making. DOJ corporate sentencing guidelines acknowledge this fact.

IOW, her integrity cannot be proved by her history. Particularly when, if the suicide was actually a murder, some of the most powerful people on the face of the earth would be leveraging everything they had, potentially, on keeping it under wraps. So to speak. They could’ve made any kind of unimaginable threats.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
104. So, is it the ME's office or the De Blasio administration generally...
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:14 PM
Aug 2019

...which does not support ethical decision making?

JudyM

(29,406 posts)
116. Neither, necessarily. She is in the lion's den with DOJ. Why did Barr unrecuse?
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:30 PM
Aug 2019

It could’ve been a single face to face. Don’t think these guys don’t know what they’re doing —when the stakes are this high they are all in and they are essentially career thugs.

There are some troubling unanswered questions starting with the crickets about his first “attempt,” and what just as convincingly looks like, based on circumstantial evidence, a staged setup as opposed to a suicide.

We’ll see what facts come out, but right now there isn’t sufficient info to know either way, and I’m skeptical enough about the cast of characters to not automatically take what the good doctor says at face value.

JudyM

(29,406 posts)
120. I know that. But Barr is all over this.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:36 PM
Aug 2019

I’m not saying I think she was compromised, I’m simply not assuming she definitely was not.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
124. Mayor Bill De Blasio Let Barr Decide What The ME Of NYC Would Write?
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:38 PM
Aug 2019

I like how you start with "baseless aspersions are unfair" and then call De Blasio's administration unethical and the NYC medical examiner subject to influence by Bill Barr, with no factual basis at all.

JudyM

(29,406 posts)
128. What if it's a question of judgment?
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:42 PM
Aug 2019

We don’t know all the facts yet, as I’ve said, but if it’s a question of judgment there’s room for flexibility.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
129. Then Dr. Sampson would exercise her best profesional judgment
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:45 PM
Aug 2019

...and would also qualify her opinion to that effect.

I realize the whole concept of competent autonomous women is threatening to some people, but I have to bow to your opening of "baseless aspersions are unfair" followed by a string of baseless aspersions against her and the Democratic administration of which she is an employee.

JudyM

(29,406 posts)
132. Well, you seem unequivocally certain that there was no foul play. For me, I'll wait and see.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:53 PM
Aug 2019

Gender has nothing to do with my opinion. I love competent autonomous women as a matter of fact

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
135. That's quite a stretch
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:55 PM
Aug 2019

I am "unequivocally certain" that Dr. Sampson is a woman of the highest qualifications and integrity. Yes.

Going from there to "no foul play" is quite the jump.

Others may tend to agree more with Epstein's lawyers:

 

BlueMississippi

(776 posts)
102. Pathologists do their job diligently
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:13 PM
Aug 2019

It is the height of conspiracy theorizing to say anything otherwise.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
107. epstien could figure out he might get an easier prison if he ratted on everyone but
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:15 PM
Aug 2019

he'd still get a life sentence.

and whether he ratted on them now or had the potential to rat them out later he wouldn't last long, whatever prison he was in - whitey bulger was the example set in the early part of the trump presidency.

epstien had nothing to live for.

how long will manafort last if he doesn't get his pardon?

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
125. Or maybe not arrest and jail him in the first place
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:39 PM
Aug 2019

But simply bump him off without all the attention.

Ramsey Barner

(354 posts)
114. Dr. Michael Baden was also present at the Epstein autopsy.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 07:23 PM
Aug 2019

He's getting on in years, but he's no lightweight. He was involved in the autopsies for JFK and MLK.
Any coverup in the Epstein autopsy would have had to get past him as well.

Crunchy Frog

(26,753 posts)
139. Well, I'm glad pathology was more on the ball than the prison administrators.
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 08:09 PM
Aug 2019

I still wonder about him being left unsupervised for several hours, and other irregularities.

still_one

(92,776 posts)
145. what is really telling is Biden in the top picture with the ME. Obviously, he killed Epstein, and
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 09:12 PM
Aug 2019

is also involved in the cover up

The evidence is obvious

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
150. Did you miss this note?
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 09:44 PM
Aug 2019

"On edit: I have been advised to clarify that "DUers" means "persons who post to DU". It does not mean "all DUers", just as references to, for example, "white people" do not always mean "all white people". Given that I am also a DUer, one might think the meaning of the phrase was clear, but apparently not. If the comment does not apply to you, then have a great day!"

So, what do you think of Dr. Sampson?

Demonaut

(8,975 posts)
155. see below
Fri Aug 16, 2019, 10:35 PM
Aug 2019

"On edit: I have been advised to clarify that "DUers" means "persons who post to DU". It does not mean "all DUers", just as references to, for example, "white people" do not always mean "all white people". Given that I am also a DUer, one might think the meaning of the phrase was clear, but apparently not. If the comment does not apply to you, then have a great day!"

if you need to write an explanation then you are doing something wrong

quickesst

(6,287 posts)
159. instead of acting....
Sat Aug 17, 2019, 01:17 AM
Aug 2019

....to head off the conspiracy theorists and gossip, this sounds more like goading and daring someone to attack the good doctor in order for you to have more adversaries you can defend her from because a few is not enough for you. Sounds like daring someone to pick up a dollar bill while you are hovering over it ready with a knife.

"Go ahead and smear her your best, DU. What sum of money do you suppose she decided to cash in a lifetime of integrity for? Post how much you think it took."

xmas74

(29,693 posts)
161. Do I believe her findings?
Sat Aug 17, 2019, 02:48 AM
Aug 2019

Absolutely.

I don't think he wanted to go to trial,knowing he'd spend the rest of his days behind bars. He was a known sex addict and a rumored drug addict who had spent this time detoxxing and dwelling on everything he couldn't have. And the age of the young girls involved meant hr would remain isolated for his own safety-and he knew it.

I have no problem believing it was a suicide. He had nothing left and he knew it. His death isn't a conspiracy and it isn't that uncommon.

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