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Fri Jul 19, 2019, 09:13 AM

I'm feeling a tad optimistic, a trumpster I work with and have the deepest respect

(except for the maga thing) tried to defend trumps comment about "going back to where they came from" saying it wasn't racist, I came back with "if I said that to anyone at work I would be fired that day"...he tried to defend it with "what about free speech?"...but he knew he lost.

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Reply I'm feeling a tad optimistic, a trumpster I work with and have the deepest respect (Original post)
Demonaut Jul 19 OP
Raster Jul 19 #1
malaise Jul 19 #20
Raster Jul 19 #42
malaise Jul 19 #44
Laurian Jul 19 #2
Jeffersons Ghost Jul 19 #4
3catwoman3 Jul 19 #28
gratuitous Jul 19 #25
Bettie Jul 19 #3
Demonaut Jul 19 #5
Bettie Jul 19 #6
Demonaut Jul 19 #7
oldsoftie Jul 21 #53
Laura PourMeADrink Jul 19 #15
Brainfodder Jul 19 #30
True Blue American Jul 19 #39
RAB910 Jul 19 #8
Demonaut Jul 19 #9
RAB910 Jul 19 #11
Demonaut Jul 19 #12
uponit7771 Jul 19 #10
WhiskeyGrinder Jul 19 #13
Kind of Blue Jul 19 #14
WinstonSmith4740 Jul 19 #16
johnnyfins Jul 19 #31
True Blue American Jul 19 #40
NNadir Jul 19 #17
Demonaut Jul 19 #18
Hortensis Jul 19 #33
NNadir Jul 19 #43
Hortensis Jul 19 #45
NNadir Jul 19 #32
ananda Jul 19 #19
bdamomma Jul 19 #23
talking-liberally Jul 19 #21
Zambero Jul 19 #22
patphil Jul 19 #24
The Bopper Jul 19 #26
dalton99a Jul 19 #27
The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 19 #29
orleans Jul 19 #34
Duppers Jul 19 #35
njhoneybadger Jul 19 #36
Demonaut Jul 19 #46
Collimator Jul 20 #47
masmdu Jul 20 #49
Demonaut Jul 21 #52
Jedi Guy Jul 21 #55
Collimator Jul 21 #56
stevil Jul 21 #51
titaniumsalute Jul 19 #37
JeaneRaye Jul 19 #38
gordianot Jul 19 #41
DFW Jul 21 #50
Skittles Jul 20 #48
lunatica Jul 21 #54
Demonaut Jul 21 #57
lunatica Jul 21 #58
Demonaut Jul 21 #60
lunatica Jul 21 #61
Demonaut Jul 21 #62
lunatica Jul 21 #63
Demonaut Jul 21 #64
LAS14 Jul 21 #59

Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 09:16 AM

1. He knew he lost because it's indefensible...

...if you support tRump* and his racist policies and actions, YOU. ARE. A. RACIST.

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Response to Raster (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:02 AM

20. He knows he lost because it is Federal law n/t

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Response to malaise (Reply #20)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 01:31 PM

42. frankly, I don't think tRump* cares anymore...

...he seems to get away with whatever he does with no seeming consequences.

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Response to Raster (Reply #42)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 02:08 PM

44. Not the Con - the trumpster

The Con thinks the rule of law does not apply to him and I can't blame him - he's been given a pass all his effin' life.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 09:29 AM

2. That he still chooses to defend Trump tells me he's a lost cause.

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Response to Laurian (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 09:39 AM

4. Most Repukes I know would defend Teflon Don, after watching him eat babies on Faux News

And they would blame Democrats in the House for inducing his appetite for devouring human children.

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Response to Jeffersons Ghost (Reply #4)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:22 AM

28. But hey, it OK, because he made sure...

...they were born before destroying them.

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Response to Laurian (Reply #2)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:19 AM

25. Perhaps

But you know how sometimes you get introduced to a new word, and it seems like you see it everywhere in the next week or so? Maybe this guy had a new idea introduced into his rusty old brain, and with a little prompting, he might very well start seeing Trump's racism where he didn't before. It's a good reason to stay engaged with folks you disagree with if you're otherwise on civil terms (as the original post implies).

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 09:31 AM

3. Yeah, he may have lost that one, but

I bet he'll be first in line to vote for him.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 09:46 AM

5. he will, no doubt

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 09:49 AM

6. On another note, don't you find it sad

that people who you thought were decent, respectable people have torn off the masks they used to wear to show us who they really are at their core?

There are people in my life who I really liked, who seemed to be decent, but have turned out to be fervent MAGATs and have shown their racism openly and without shame, as if they were just waiting for it to be socially acceptable?

There are so many people I can never trust again.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 09:55 AM

7. somewhat,in his unguarded moments he's a greathuman being that is allowing himself to be brainwashed

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 07:00 PM

53. You know him well; do YOU consider him a racist?

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Response to Bettie (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 10:39 AM

15. I find it that there is also a contingency of trump supporters

who are completely non-political. Don't even watch the news. They don't pay attention to any of his BS. all they care about is that they and their families and friends have jobs. They are not the rabid racist types. I think those are the ones we need to figure out a way to connect with.

But I am getting more and more demoralized. Never ever before has there been such an opponent with a zillion pieces of baggage. Yet our side just seems to wade in it. We need some savvy and we need it fast.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:30 AM

30. My dad is a Republican!

BUT.....

He's over 80, and is one of those who believes what party leaders push.

He emails politic stuff so I know have far OFF he is.

It's real bad.

He has a PhD, he shouldn't be this unflappably gullible; too trusting of leaders, that's got to be it.

He doesn't budge from it, no matter what I've said, he's baked in.








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Response to Bettie (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 12:12 PM

39. Yes, it is really sad.

People used to disagree on Politics, but not any more. Trump and his enablers have turned it into a hate fest. Congressional Republicans have joined that hate wagon.

You have to be so careful what you say to keep peace.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 09:56 AM

8. Here's the thing- How can you know you "lost" in terms of defending trump against racism charges

And still support him, if you are a good person worthy of respect?

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #8)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 09:59 AM

9. subjective

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #9)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 10:03 AM

11. I have a theory about a special type of Trump supporter

There isn't many of this type but I have seen them.

I call them the Bruce Banners. The Bruce Banners seem like good people. You find in their interactions that they are thoughtful and respectful and generally nice.

However, they have a darker side that they hide. Trump is their hulk-like rage monster. Through Trump, they can release their inner demons.

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Response to RAB910 (Reply #11)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 10:06 AM

12. we all have inner demons in one form or another, trump's tapped into one of the oldest

in our species, fear of the "other"

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 10:01 AM

10. K&R, they know it's racist

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 10:07 AM

13. He's knows it's racist and doesn't care. "Free speech" certainly means you can say racist things.

Depending on the context, though, there are going to be consequences.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 10:34 AM

14. Yes, it's the fierce backlash and growing willingness to employ consequences already in place.

That's why I think he knew he lost.

Good going!

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 10:49 AM

16. That's kind of what I've noticed in others.

The Trumpists I know have been very, very quiet lately. Almost nothing on Facebook, don't bring him up in conversations, don't really put up a strong defense of him when he does come up, that sort of thing. In fact the only thing any of them have posted up was a clip from years ago of Obama talking about how we needed strong borders, if people are here illegally we'll deport them, that whole thing. For some reason, they felt this somehow validated them, and proved Obama was lying, because Trump told them that Democrats want open borders and they believe him, not their own eyes and ears. I pointed out the obvious. The response initially was crickets, then he took it down.

My experience has been that people can admit they made a mistake. It's tough admitting you were conned. We all know about the "fatigue factor" in fighting him. It may just be setting in with some of his voters about supporting him.

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Response to WinstonSmith4740 (Reply #16)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:31 AM

31. i must admit,

I almost fell for the Sunkist Balloon's con. I thought he was cutting through the bullshit in politics, in the beginning. Then I realized he was using a sharpened turd.

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Response to WinstonSmith4740 (Reply #16)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 12:15 PM

40. Nicolle said

On her program yesterday that she did not want to talk about Trump because it gave him exposure.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 10:50 AM

17. I am incapable of having respect for a Magat at this point.

If you try to defend this you ARE a racist, pure and simple.

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Response to NNadir (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 10:58 AM

18. me?

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #18)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:34 AM

33. I'm assuming "you" is not YOU. Would certainly hope not.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #33)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 02:07 PM

43. It was a rhetorical gaff on my part.

I am a little slow and failed to catch my rhetorical mistake in utilizing the rhetorical "you" instead of the better locution "one" instead of "you."

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Response to NNadir (Reply #43)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 04:52 PM

45. :) That's what I figured. As conservatives we know have been

supporting and endorsing the behaviors of increasingly very bad leaders, becoming in the process increasingly politically corrupted and cruel themselves, I'm far less able to separate out and respect their good facets for themselves.

When a neighbor's grandchildren ran squealing to jump on her the other day, I couldn't laugh and appreciate what a good grandmother she was, as I once did, because it of course reminded me of other children crying helplessly in detention camps. I know she and her husband still support him, and that can't be set aside.

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Response to NNadir (Reply #17)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:33 AM

32. Are you defending Trump's remarks?

I don't think you are. I am speaking about the Magat to whom you referred.

I can't of course tell you who to respect, but I could not do what you say you do, respect one.

At this point, it's ratcheted into Klan stuff.

I understand that one may need to work with such a person for economic reasons, but personally I have worked with and even for people I don't respect.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:00 AM

19. You have respect for that?

!@#$%

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Response to ananda (Reply #19)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:17 AM

23. Respect???

he doesn't even know the meaning of the word.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:04 AM

21. I've won many battles but never the war. They

never change, never give up.

We can't change the bad guys. We can only get the good guys more motivated.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:15 AM

22. In the workplace...

unbridled free speech often comes with the consequence of having an employer terminating said employee for exercising that right. Yes, your co-worker lost that one.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:17 AM

24. He may have lost, but you didn't win.

Trump supporters, in general, are not interested in logic or reason.
They operate at a more basic, irrational level where their beliefs are irrefutable and no amount of intelligent discourse can sway them.
Fundamentally, they don't care if they're right or wrong.
It's a matter of belief, and belief will always "trump" factual evidence.
Even long held religious tenants fall before their irrational love of the Trump "doctrine".

That person knows he is wrong, but just doesn't care. Trump is his god, and everything else is irrelevant.

Patrick Phillips

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:20 AM

26. Be careful

Being a little obvious here. It’s only illegal or improper because a judge ruled that way. The way Trumpolini is appointing judges, even that rule can be changed at the sweep of a pen.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:20 AM

27. Free speech, eh? Ask him to say "My boss sucks"

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:28 AM

29. "Free speech" - meaning speech protected by the First Amendment - means only

that the government can't restrict your speech (except in a few very narrow circumstances). Your private employer isn't bound by that and certainly can restrict your speech when you're at work or when you use social media or speak in public in a way that reflects poorly on the employer.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 11:45 AM

34. this little asshole

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 12:01 PM

35. Sorry.

You lost me at "deepest respect" since in my opinion, tRumpsters and respect don't belong in the same sentence. Sorry.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 12:02 PM

36. How can you have the deepest respect for him?

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Response to njhoneybadger (Reply #36)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 09:50 PM

46. he's a great grandfather and husband and takes cares of his 90 year old mother

when I was new at my job he trained me when it cost him money, it wasn't his company, he was drone just like me, the magat turn is incomprehensible to me, we've all seen it in people we know and he's the only trumpster I chat with, the others are stupid, lazy and too self centered

We have to understand that not all trumpsters are evil, some are misguided and/or a result of their environment
sorry, some of you are absolutists but I consider that too narrow minded.

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #46)

Sat Jul 20, 2019, 02:17 PM

47. I would like to offer you a supportive hand to the shoulder.

What you have to say about your Trump-voting friend may not be popular here, but it needs to be said.

One of the most awful aspects of the whole Trumpist mind set is the division of human beings into "us" and "others". It is, as some have pointed out, a primal thought-process based on fear and it is so, so easy to sink into.

Right now, we here in this forum are banded together as an "us" who oppose Trump. Some of us have gone farther to paint anyone and everyone who has ever supported Trump with a broad brush of paint that covers all those human beings in a thick layer of disgust.

The painful fact is that decent human beings can have ugly aspects to their personalities. Furthermore, there are those who are deeply ugly in their souls who manage a veneer of approved political ideas when in the appropriate company.

I have family members who voted for Trump. Every once in a while, I would hear ugly epithets and truly stupid ideas coming out of their mouths. That doesn't change the fact that they are hard-working, giving people.

The problem is that they are convinced that they (and others just like them) are the only hard-working people around. And their generous, giving natures are limited to what they perceive as their own kind.

Without going into details here, I have some insight into the insecurities and inner pain that fuels their prejudices. I am not an expert on what it takes to affect real change in people, (I'm still working on myself.) but it can happen.

I had heard my mother use the N-word on the rare occasion while growing up. Three months before she died I heard her say that the newly-elected Obama sounded "wise", further noting that he "was going to be fair."

The two family members to whom I referred earlier have become grandparents to an adopted mixed race child. If they were truly deplorable and unredeemable, they would have refused to accept or even acknowledge this child as a member of their family.

It may not be much, but I have a feeling that the next time the one of them who uses the N-word may be met with some censure from the other. "That's our little Suzie you could be referring to," might be the thought that crosses her partner's mind.

Yes, it's pretty annoying that some people don't open their eyes unless a given problem starts to hit pretty damn close to home. Unfortunately, a lot of the human race is that way.

In the meantime, I suggest we look to a very wise man and remember to be fair. We can disagree with people vehemently and oppose their positions at every turn. We cannot, however, take a page from their own playbook and declare anyone who thinks differently than us as a worthless, monstrous "other" whose presence must be eradicated.

We must teach where we can, censure when necessary and work towards legislation that furthers the vision set forth in our founding documents--no matter how flawed the writers of those documents may have been.

Sometimes I want to cry when I hear or see my family members saying or doing something kind and thoughtful. I juxtapose that against other things I hear coming out of their mouths and I don't understand how they can miss the disconnect. Alas, human beings are complicated--as is life, politics and government.

One of the worst problems about our opposition is how simplistic their thinking can be. That's one of the main reasons that they follow the lead of such a simple, shallow man. They want things easy. But it is never easy to love complicated, mixed up people. That's the lesson I keep learning when I look at my country, my family and myself.

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Response to Collimator (Reply #47)

Sat Jul 20, 2019, 09:33 PM

49. Thank you for this.

Perhaps you can express this sentiment as an OP. I think many at DU would benefit.

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Response to Collimator (Reply #47)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 01:08 PM

52. thank you

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Response to Collimator (Reply #47)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 08:02 PM

55. Speaking as someone whose parents are hardcore conservatives who voted for Trump...

I see exactly where you're coming from. I know I don't have an objective view of my parents, but I do know them to be hard-working, kindhearted people. I know they're not racists. They give freely to charity, they volunteer in their church community and their secular community. I know they're not monsters. But I also know that they voted for one. It's a hard pill to swallow.

I believe absolutely that you mean well with your post. I also don't believe most here on DU will consider your viewpoint. Sometimes it's disheartening to read posts on this forum, particularly the ones that drip with hatred towards those who don't think like we do, or those that use dehumanizing language towards those who don't think like we do. I don't think more hatred is going to solve anything, but that seems to be where we're going, unfortunately.

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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #55)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 08:15 PM

56. I understand your feelings.

I would politely describe my parents as "not very enlightened". Othertimes I would say that they were a product of their generation, but at least they didn't have white sheets hanging in the back of their closet.

When they were still alive I used to make a joke about bringing home a young woman from my college to meet them. She happens to be straight, as I am. She is also Jewish because her mother is Jewish and she was raised in that religion. Her father is African-American, and by basic visual standards, she looks black.

I would mimic bringing her to meet my parents by putting an arm around her imaginary shouder and saying, "Mom, Dad, what do you think? She's Black, she's Jewish and she's mine." When people chuckled, I pointed out that I could get away with murder in that case, " 'Cause nobody can convict you of killing your parents with a Black, Jewish Lesbian."

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #46)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 12:54 PM

51. Misguided is a great term.

You have a great attitude. I used to have three hour conversations about politics with a friend who was fiscally conservative. We always agreed to disagree and kept the conversation civil. Nothing wrong with that.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 12:08 PM

37. Yes it is free speech I guess

But that doesn't make it right. I use that line a lot. And when you're at work you are not protected by the 1st amendment free speech. You represent a company poorly with your speech and you can easily be fired.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 12:09 PM

38. Lost

That your co-worker is even still defending Trump, tells me he's probably a lost cause.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Fri Jul 19, 2019, 12:16 PM

41. When your free speech ends with harm to others it is no longer free.

Palin was really shaky when her free speech target ended up getting shot. There is a difference in free speech and getting off “free” of consequences for your actions.

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Response to gordianot (Reply #41)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 11:53 AM

50. Like modern day Germany

They have free speech protection, too.

Still, make a public speech praising Hitler, wave a flag with a swastika in public, or claim openly that the Holocaust never happened, and you're looking at jail time, something you don't always get in Germany even for aggravated assault and robbery.

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Sat Jul 20, 2019, 07:43 PM

48. jeez

when he said WHAT ABOUT FREE SPEECH you should have asked him why Trump thinks they should leave the country for speaking out

MAGAts are fucking hypocrites

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 07:50 PM

54. One way to argue is to tell these people that from what you've seen

Of their actions, what you know of them after years of working with them that it is shocking to see them defending racism, mysoginy, brown children, or whatever the latest Trump target is.

Be shocked by their actions, not Trump’s. Tell them you expect that shit from Trump, but not them.

I assume you would be telling the truth.

Give them a chance to back away from Trump. To take a look at themselves as they are seen by people who had respected them.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #54)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 08:21 PM

57. assume?...lol, ye of little faith

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #57)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 08:24 PM

58. So you don't have any respect for him?

I thought you said you respected him.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #58)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 10:19 PM

60. no, I thought you questioned me

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #60)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 10:27 PM

61. No, I was assuming that to tell him that you

felt respect for him would be the truth.

Sorry! I see why it may have sounded like I was questioning you!

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Response to lunatica (Reply #61)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 10:31 PM

62. np, he is the rock of Gibraltar but I may open his heart, I think he wants to but it will be slow

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Response to Demonaut (Reply #62)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 10:45 PM

63. He sounds like he's worth it.

I hope you succeed.

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Response to lunatica (Reply #63)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 10:49 PM

64. I won't by that won't stop me from trying

thanks

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Response to Demonaut (Original post)

Sun Jul 21, 2019, 08:27 PM

59. Perfect reply! That's the kind of thing I come up with at 3 a.m..... nt

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