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Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:05 AM

Some "tough love" from Rick Wilson

Last edited Thu Jul 11, 2019, 02:09 PM - Edit history (1)









1/ Tough love:

You know who benefits from the House civil war being waged by AOC?

Donald Trump, that's who.


The new class of Democrats has more Katie Porters and Conor Lambs than AOCs, but hey, it's just the majority of the only body you control at stake, and the Presidency.

2/ You don't want to hear it. You don't want the understand it. I promise you, my TL is about to turn into a tu quoque nightmare.

And yet, I persist.

You control *one* house of *one* branch and that one house needs to be absolutely unified and focused.

3/ So choose one:

A) a grinding legislative and strategic program where no one gets everything they want but that holds together a caucus full of new members from swing districts and serves as a counterweight to Trump.

B) Burn down Pelosi, feed Trump, and lose.

4/ The choice isn't "AOC or Nancy"...the choice is "Nancy or Trump."

But by all means, y'all do you.

5/ And before you accuse (which you will, no matter what I say, but here's to it):

This isn't me being critical of a progressive or a woman or a woman of color or blah blah blah. This isn't a conservative or GOP critique. This is *just* politics.

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Reply Some "tough love" from Rick Wilson (Original post)
MelissaB Jul 11 OP
Bettie Jul 11 #1
MelissaB Jul 11 #2
Bettie Jul 11 #4
zaj Jul 11 #12
Bettie Jul 11 #14
MelissaB Jul 11 #18
Bettie Jul 11 #19
bucolic_frolic Jul 11 #40
qazplm135 Jul 11 #56
redstatebluegirl Jul 11 #76
StarfishSaver Jul 11 #88
questionseverything Jul 11 #89
qazplm135 Jul 12 #96
hlthe2b Jul 11 #15
mountain grammy Jul 11 #23
mountain grammy Jul 11 #22
JonLP24 Jul 11 #3
MelissaB Jul 11 #6
Raster Jul 11 #9
MelissaB Jul 11 #13
OnDoutside Jul 11 #84
JonLP24 Jul 11 #10
mountain grammy Jul 11 #25
padah513 Jul 11 #75
montanacowboy Jul 11 #5
MelissaB Jul 11 #7
BannonsLiver Jul 11 #28
jmbar2 Jul 11 #32
Thekaspervote Jul 11 #59
stopdiggin Jul 11 #64
pazzyanne Jul 11 #34
Stuart G Jul 11 #43
trev Jul 11 #78
Cha Jul 12 #94
Hotler Jul 11 #8
yardwork Jul 11 #11
NewJeffCT Jul 11 #16
hlthe2b Jul 11 #17
comradebillyboy Jul 11 #55
melman Jul 11 #91
hlthe2b Jul 11 #92
Enoki33 Jul 11 #20
handmade34 Jul 11 #21
Liberalhammer Jul 11 #24
mountain grammy Jul 11 #26
Liberalhammer Jul 11 #27
pazzyanne Jul 11 #35
Liberalhammer Jul 11 #38
pazzyanne Jul 11 #39
MelissaB Jul 11 #47
Hekate Jul 11 #66
MelissaB Jul 11 #46
comradebillyboy Jul 11 #60
Liberalhammer Jul 11 #74
Piratedog Jul 11 #29
smirkymonkey Jul 11 #30
JonLP24 Jul 11 #37
comradebillyboy Jul 11 #61
JonLP24 Jul 11 #67
Roy Rolling Jul 11 #31
pazzyanne Jul 11 #36
peggysue2 Jul 11 #42
JonLP24 Jul 11 #45
Kurt V. Jul 11 #33
sinkingfeeling Jul 11 #41
Bettie Jul 11 #44
SouthernProgressive Jul 11 #48
jalan48 Jul 11 #49
qazplm135 Jul 11 #58
jalan48 Jul 11 #68
qazplm135 Jul 11 #72
jalan48 Jul 11 #80
BluesRunTheGame Jul 11 #50
Me. Jul 11 #51
LanternWaste Jul 11 #52
BamaRefugee Jul 11 #53
comradebillyboy Jul 11 #54
Politicub Jul 11 #57
Hekate Jul 11 #82
GeorgeGist Jul 11 #62
KG Jul 11 #63
DownriverDem Jul 11 #65
shanny Jul 11 #69
RelativelyJones Jul 11 #70
Hekate Jul 11 #71
melman Jul 11 #73
awesomerwb1 Jul 11 #77
Celerity Jul 11 #79
Celerity Jul 11 #81
MadDAsHell Jul 11 #83
OnDoutside Jul 11 #85
GeorgeGist Jul 11 #86
Stinky The Clown Jul 11 #87
UniteFightBack Jul 11 #90
ecstatic Jul 11 #93
Cha Jul 12 #95
Oregon1947 Jul 12 #97
gopiscrap Jul 12 #98
rzemanfl Jul 12 #99

Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:06 AM

1. Good to know that so many are on

the same page as the Republican strategist!

Perhaps we should have Rick Wilson cull our party of undesirables, to ensure that Democrats fit his view of what the party should be.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:07 AM

2. One who wants Trump out of office.

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #2)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:14 AM

4. So, I'm right

the whole thing comes down to liberals don't matter because they have no where else to go.

Everything is 100% about the Lipinski segment of the party. Good to know.

And yet, there really is no where else to go, but it isn't enjoyable to watch my country go down the path of dictatorship with everyone who pushes back being told to STFU.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:30 AM

12. Sometimes reality is difficult

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Response to zaj (Reply #12)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:34 AM

14. It sucks

I feel like I'm watching a disaster in slow motion, unable to do anything to stop it.

And it will destroy the world my kids have to live in. I have one starting college, another starting his senior year, and a third going into fifth grade.

Our side should be fighting tooth and nail to stop the disaster.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:43 AM

18. I don't think so. It's that we need to be a united front against Trump and not have public wars

in the party that will divide us.

I just want to win, and I'm as liberal as they come. I have children in their early 20's, and I'm scared to death for them.

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #18)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:51 AM

19. I have one starting college

another starting his senior year.

I really don't believe they have a future, but I smile and pretend they do.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #19)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:51 PM

40. I suggest a reading of Machiavelli's The Prince

It is enlightening, you will enjoy it. It explains political rule in the starkest way. We have Big Fish to fry. Those who help us cook the fish are not to be vetted for purity. Those battles can come at a later time. Unless we don't have a later time.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #4)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:30 PM

56. get off the cross

just because folks aren't fighting as hard on the issues you specifically think they should be fighting on or in the way you think they should be fighting does not equate to being told to STFU nor does it mean that folks have to agree with you or that you or AOC can't be criticized or wrong.

The party is a big tent...if that's too much for you, go form a new party. Make as liberal as possible.

You won't win many seats mind you but everyone will be in lockstep agreement.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #56)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 04:05 PM

76. Thanks for this, i have been thinking it since 2016.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #56)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 09:43 PM

88. Thank you!

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #56)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:38 PM

89. form a new party?

so your suggestion is to split the freaking vote against trump?

you have got to be kidding

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #89)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 09:14 AM

96. Sure

They can accept us or go it alone. I'm pretty sure they are going to pick the former which makes all of their bluster a waste of time.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:37 AM

15. We share the goal of defeating Trump. On that, I take his help. After that, I look with skepticism

and he's not so wrong on this particular point.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #15)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:17 PM

23. Yep, he is.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #1)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:17 PM

22. Bingo!

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:11 AM

3. I'm not really interested in the opinions of Never Trump Republicans

They are still Republicans.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:16 AM

6. Up to you. He's a R who is fighting for Dems right now and helped get one elected in Alabama.

He made the ads run against Roy Moore in Alabama.


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Response to MelissaB (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:19 AM

9. Wilson. is. not. fighting. for. Dems. right. now.

Wilson is a never tRump*er, and is a prominent dirty tricks rethug strategist. It just so happens that some of his interests and some of our interests align. That's it. Make no mistake, if the paycheck is large enough...

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Response to Raster (Reply #9)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:30 AM

13. Oh, Senator Doug Jones (D) from Alabama doesn't count then.

Last edited Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:56 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #13)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 06:42 PM

84. EXACTLY !!! I despair sometimes how some of these hotheads just don't get it.

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #6)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:22 AM

10. I've been fighting for Progressive ideas ever since Bush

Only to see never Trumpets abandon their disaster of a party only to pull our party in their direction. I think they are neo cons.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:19 PM

25. Yep!

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #3)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 03:54 PM

75. True

But we know he's not going to vote for Trump. He may not vote Democratic, but it's one less vote for Trump. The enemy of my enemy...

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:16 AM

5. Once a Repuke

always a Repuke

Give advice to your own party Ricky

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Response to montanacowboy (Reply #5)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:18 AM

7. You disagree with what he said?

"You know who benefits from the House civil war being waged by AOC?

Donald Trump, that's who."

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:25 PM

28. The willful ignorance in some of the responses here make me pessimistic about 2020

Lots of knee jerk. Lots of we have all the answers.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #28)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:35 PM

32. Agree completely

Circular firing squad.

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Response to jmbar2 (Reply #32)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:33 PM

59. Me too!

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #59)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:52 PM

64. can't tell ME what to do!

now there's a political strategy. sigh

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #28)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:37 PM

34. Bingo, in the words of another poster on this thread.

My focus is on tRump and removing him from office. Too many people are fighting on too many fronts, and I too am afraid we lose when it really counts - in November, 2020.

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #34)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:59 PM

43. You have just hit the jackpot...Ten Million quarters just came out of the machine..Why is it true?

"My focus is on Trump and removing him from office." "....it really counts in November 2020.

and today is July 2019. Let's count.. Sixteen months away, November 2020. Is that right?.. 16 times 30..is that 480 days?..Now, if we fight the battle now, and wear ourselves out, with going after each other, how much energy will we have 480 days from now?

Trump will do anything to win in 16 months. Any lies, any actions, any s**T. We ain't seen nothing yet. More to come. When? from now to November 2020

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Response to MelissaB (Reply #7)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 04:38 PM

78. Civil war? I don't think so.

The Squad is doing exactly what they were elected to do: represent their districts. And Pelosi is pounding Trump on every hand.

Personally, I'm happier with my Party than I ever have been.

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Response to trev (Reply #78)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 03:11 AM

94. No.. not exactly..





Nancy's thinking about Winning the House Again in 2020..

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:19 AM

8. You're still a repug, go fuck yourself. nt

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:25 AM

11. He's right.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #11)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:39 AM

16. we need every ally we can get to fight back

against Trump and his minions.

Never Trump Republicans seem to get more airtime than most Democrats, so are often very effective in debunking the Firehoses of Falsehoods spewing from the White House

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #16)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:42 AM

17. Some would seemingly refuse a life rope thrown by someone they disdain & prefer to drown...

sigh...

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:30 PM

55. Well if the lifeline isn't pure enough...

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #17)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:46 PM

91. Some realize that history didn't start yesterday

and understand that trash like Rick Willson played a very real part in getting us where we are.

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Response to melman (Reply #91)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:48 PM

92. Actually nearly ALL of us know his history. We have our eye on removing Trump. That's the difference

Biting off our collective noses to spite our face is really not helpful to that goal. A lesson most of us learned as we grew up.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 11:54 AM

20. We ignore the advice at our own peril. Seems rather silly not to evaluate

the validity of the message because of the messenger. Thought we pitched a big tent where all who share a common goal are welcomed. There is nothing more important than getting rid of the traitor tRump.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:08 PM

21. yup

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:18 PM

24. I'd like Rick Wilson

To Apologize for being part of the reason we have Trump. Trump ruined his gig by being outright racist and fascist.

Rick Wilson is part of the problem. Given the chance had turn on us in a second.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:20 PM

26. Oh yes, by all means, let's listen to Republicans..

Nope, not me! He's wrong! Fix your own fucking racist party there, Rick.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:22 PM

27. Trump is winning

Because Pelosi is to old school.

We needs fighters and firebrand, not corporate Democrats calling the shots.

As far as I'm concerned Pelosi had a Chance, the current dem leadership is not viewing Republicans as the domestic enemies they are. A threat.

Untill that happens prepare for losing more of our constitution to the totalitarian Nazis called Republicans.

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Response to Liberalhammer (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:39 PM

35. Those fighter and firebrands are dividing the Democratic party.

"Divided we fall, united we win" to repurpose an old adage.

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Response to pazzyanne (Reply #35)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:45 PM

38. I see an old slow moving party

Stuck in the old ways that Rethugs still give a fuck about democracy.

They don't all they want is totalitarian domination at any and all costs.

Things have changed, sometimes I wonder if th e corporate democrats recognize it.

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Response to Liberalhammer (Reply #38)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:49 PM

39. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Ain't America great!

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Response to Liberalhammer (Reply #38)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:04 PM

47. She works with these people on a daily basis.

Do you think she doesn't know what they are and want?

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Response to Liberalhammer (Reply #38)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 02:10 PM

66. "Corporate Democrats"? Seriously? Well I see you've been around awhile...

...but what have you learned? smh

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Response to Liberalhammer (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:02 PM

46. "corporate democrats"?

You've used it twice in this tread as a slur.

Trump has ONE check on him right now, and it's the majority in the House. By all means, let's tear that down for whatever reason. Not...

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Response to Liberalhammer (Reply #27)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:33 PM

60. I usually ignore the people who use the 'corporate democrat' slur.

Maybe they would be happier in a different party.

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #60)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 03:24 PM

74. Slur?

I see it as a reality. Do you somehow think that democrats are immune to corporate lobbying? Immune to a quid pro quo to get campaign donations?

When Pelosi caved on the border bill, because Pence gave her his word; I'm done with Pelosi's leadership.

They should have fought! Should have kept on the pressure!

Solidarity is great, except for when your leadership is driving off a cliff and retreats from its moral high ground, and goes on AS business as usual when your nation is being taken over by totalitarian Nazi Republicans.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:26 PM

29. Rick Wilson is absolutely correct!!! Nm

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:26 PM

30. Don't dismiss the message simply because you don't approve of the messenger.

He's right. This is not helping. This is not the time for intra-party bickering. We need unity and we need to focus on the real enemy, which is Trump and anyone who enables him.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #30)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:43 PM

37. He constantly criticizes the Sanders wing

The only reason why I see his tweets is because the resistance retreats him. He also brings up Conor Lamb who used an AR - 15 in a campaign ad. Tell that to the Parkland Kids we need to be more like him.

No intra party criticism only privileges one side. The side that constantly criticizes progressives.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #37)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:35 PM

61. Many Democrats think the "Sanders wing" is too divisive.

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #61)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 02:11 PM

67. Rick Wilson is far more divisive than I am

I think the anti Sanders wing is very divisive to the point I logged off the entire primary not saying a word online just silently casting my vote and when I came back for the election I came across smears that still persist like Bernie's white flight to Vermont just to give one example. A lot of it is unreasonable and Wilson makes similar tweets.

Sanders was on my radar in the early 2000s. He is one of the most consistent and honest politician. If he loses an election you don't have to worry about him getting a job as a lobbyist which is exactly what Joe Crowley did.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:32 PM

31. Listen to Yourselves

"Rick Wilson is the problem"

Give me a break. It's a free Democratic Party, do what the fu*k you want---even the complete opposite of Wilson. In fact, you can be just like Republicans who vowed to oppose anything Obama said, as a personal vendetta.

But try putting your righteous anger and indignation away for one moment and stop doing what Wilson warns against---party infighting.

I'm a lifelong individualist and rebel, and there are times I've worked with others to accomplish a common goal. If you can't, don't join a political party. But don't advocate for Democratic Party infighting just because Rick Wilson told you to stop infighting.

You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need.

And we need Trump and Republicans banished forever.

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Response to Roy Rolling (Reply #31)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:41 PM

36. Amen!

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Response to Roy Rolling (Reply #31)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:56 PM

42. Yes, Yes, & Yes

Doesn't matter who the words are coming from when they're right on the money. Infighting and backbiting will gain us one thing: another disastrous Trumpster term and the further degradation (if not ruin) of the country we live in. As Dems we're on the same team regardless of where we fall on the political spectrum. For 2020, there's only one thing that matters:

WINNING!

Because without a decisive win, we can kiss everything else good-bye.

Yes, Rick Wilson is a fierce political strategist, has been a dedicated Republican. But he despises Donald Trump and the sycophants enabling him. On kicking Trump to the curb, he is on our side and his book, Everything Trump Touches Dies, is a testament of that stand, as well as numerous TV and radio appearances blasting the cruelty, incompetence and corruption of this Administration. His voice is out there. He is Anti-Trump and Anti-Trumpism. Regardless of his former history, he's calling for Trump's utter annihilation, as well as the current GOP tribe supporting him.

Strange times produce strange bedfellows. But for the moment,

WINNING IS EVERYTHING

We can go back to catfighting once Donald Trump and his odious acolytes are crushed.

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Response to Roy Rolling (Reply #31)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:01 PM

45. He has been criticizing the party for a long time

The progressive wing. He lays all this on "waged by AOC" when Pelosi criticizes them in a 60 Minutes interview. This isn't Rick Wilson's only tweet.

It is depressing and discouraging when I advocate for Progressive policies only to see Democrats promoting this hack.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:35 PM

33. hey! another opportunity for me to say *i have no use for rick wilson*

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:54 PM

41. Thanks for saying what's needed to be said.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 12:59 PM

44. I object to the term "Tough Love"

Wilson doesn't "love" us, he sees Democrats as useful idiots, who will embrace him because he doesn't like his party's leader.

Fact is, he encouraged a third party candidate to run in the next election in order to ensure that his party's leader wins another term. Yeah, that guy didn't go anywhere, but I will never forget that Wilson was all in for him running. As a third party candidate.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:05 PM

48. I only see one winner. The media.

I don't think people get how few out there actually read these things or know who AOC is.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:14 PM

49. How simplistic. Get rid of Trump and problem solved. This is more than Trump. It's oligarchs and

business entities like the fossil fuel industry that are getting what they want with a Trump Administration. Thinking that Republicans will suddenly come to their senses and start working with Democrats once Trump is gone is pure fantasy. Fascism works for some powerful interests in America and Trump is the current figurehead, someone else is waiting in the wings if and when he goes down.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #49)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:32 PM

58. one fucking step at a time

Jesus the revolution isn't happening.

This is going to be a long, slow slog.

and the first step is getting rid of Trump.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #58)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 02:18 PM

68. Yep. The "Republicans are worse" argument has played itself out.

Time for some new blood and new ideas. If that's what you call a revolution then I say bring it on.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #68)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 02:47 PM

72. well you can say bring it on all you want

it ain't happening, no one is teleporting you to the finish line via revolution, so your plan B should be to start walking.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #72)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 04:58 PM

80. The Centrists are going to save us from Fascism? Just keep believing your fantasy that the folks

who have been in power during this slide into Fascism are the ones who will get us out of it.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:15 PM

50. PSA from your friendly neighborhood Republican. n/t

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:19 PM

51. Brilliantly Put

Con or not you've made completely valid points

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:23 PM

52. The media wins as soon as the undisciplined consumer believes it's a civil war.

They get the ratings from us. We get the narrative they want us to get.

Maybe the editorial writer never worked with more than seven people at any one time... else he'd realize agreement is never pure nor is solidarity a constant.

Or maybe he's directing a narrative in an exploitative manner simply to get more eyes on his piece and drive up his paycheck.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:25 PM

53. I thought it was against the r to post right wing propaganda here?

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:27 PM

54. He's corect in this case.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:32 PM

57. I have never heard of this mainsplainer

And this is indeed him being critical of a progressive woman, no matter if he says it isn’t.

“Rick Wilson”’s name isn’t even worth googling.

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Response to Politicub (Reply #57)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 05:22 PM

82. Your loss. He's the author of "Everything Trump Touches Dies"

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:39 PM

62. Leadership starts at the top,

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 01:50 PM

63. I lulz'd

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 02:06 PM

65. Newbies

don't get it. They act like their win means they are in charge. They aren't and they are just creating problems that we don't need now. The country is not far left. They are moderate. So those leaning left need to wake up. You have to bring the country along. That won't happen until we win the White House in 2020. Wake up folks. The country is not as far left as many at DU.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 02:31 PM

69. Rick Wilson can fuck right off

 

OR, he can go fix his own party.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 02:39 PM

70. He's not wrong.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 02:39 PM

71. To those whinging about the company we keep: FDR partnered with Josef Stalin to defeat Adolf Hitler

Just think about that.

FDR and Winston Churchill partnering up with Stalin, who was no fragrant rose. The world as we knew it was literally at stake, and Western Democracies could not do this alone. Kill Hitler, defeat the Reich, and deal with the rest later.

Rick Wilson is no Stalin. He doesn't rule an empire. He's just a Party apparatchik who has seen the horror about to be unleashed and has decided there's something he loves more than Party loyalty and his own cleverness.

Enough with that analogy -- it can only go so far with individuals.

Suffice it to say, when a never-Trumper speaks or writes a book or an op-ed, I give due consideration to what they say rather than dismissing it out of hand. Some, like the Neocon intellectuals, are mostly calling out to the last Republicans with a brain.

Others, like Rick Wilson, know where all the bodies are buried. Wouldn't you like to know where the bodies are buried? Don't you think that would be useful to us?. I sure as hell do.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 02:49 PM

73. Rick Wilson

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 04:25 PM

77. I don't disagree with him in this instance

He's right. We can stick with purity while the planet burns or we can put differences aside for now and work towards one objective which is getting trump out of office.

I like AOC and I'm not a huge fan of Pelosi right now. However this back and forth is pointless, distracting, stupid and counterproductive. Both need to focus. We all do.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)


Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 05:02 PM

81. Fuck Rick Wilson. What also makes no sense is that Pelosi, after being sandbagged by the Problem

Solvers Group (who, remember, also tried to oust her as Speaker, ffs) instead turns around and goes after AOC and other three.

There is s much post-game spin going on trying to make it look like it is just the 4 freshwomen against all the rest of the Party. That is rot. Almost 100 Democrats voted NO on the Seante version of the border bill (it might have been over 100 as 11 did not vote for various reasons, and at least 5 or 6 of them would have probably voted NO as well.

Pelosi took the first swipe at AOC and the other 3, then kept ramping it up, as did they (surely Pelosi knew that they would not take a public slap-down, using really chippy language, lightly.) Leadership could demand all 4 be primaried, hell they might pull it off, boot them all out. If that happens, watch the voter enthusiasm and turnout nationally plummet amongst the under 40 crowd and the more leftish parts of our voter make-up. The centrists make up around half of our caucus, they already dominate it (look at power Problem Solvers had here), but we simply cannot hope to have majority control (let alone win the POTUS in a non Rump election) if we go scorched earth on the left and try and drive them out of the party and utterly smack them down. We simply cannot be a party composed of 85% or 90% of Blue Dog/Problem Solvers/New Democrat Coalition types. If we try and ramrod that down the voters throats, it will end up splitting the Party.

Wait until we (for this purpose I will assume a lot of not sure things) take back (in 2020) the POTUS, the Senate, and maintain the House. People are going to go bonkers when a small group of the most extreme centrists block even mild, taken-for-granted (by some) centre-left things (think Biden's platform atm) like the public option, or free 2 years public community college tuition (forget 4 years), or expanded debt forgiveness, or trying to claw back regulation on banks, etc (many Dems voted with the Rethugs to partially gut Dodd-Frank already) or even expanding the age for Medicare down to 55. I am sure some actually hope that blocking happens. IMHO, that will be an electoral disaster, as we will, if that happens, show we truly are powerless to enact even milquetoast, bog standard centre-left reforms and programmes.


Here again is what happened on the border bill, that led up to all this feuding:


House Passes Senate Border Bill in Striking Defeat for Pelosi

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/27/us/politics/border-funding-immigration.html

WASHINGTON — Congress sent President Trump a $4.6 billion humanitarian aid package on Thursday after Speaker Nancy Pelosi capitulated to Republicans and Democratic moderates and dropped her insistence on stronger protections for migrant children in overcrowded border shelters.

The vote came after a striking display of Democratic disunity and was a setback for Ms. Pelosi. Until Thursday, she had proved adept at navigating the complexities of a caucus rived by powerful progressive and moderate factions that often work at cross purposes. But their priorities clashed, the liberal flank was vanquished and the speaker — who had put her reputation on the line, calling herself a “lioness” out to protect children as she held out for stronger protections in the migrant facilities that house them — grudgingly had to accept defeat.

The final vote, 305 to 102, included far more Republicans in favor, 176, than Democrats, 129. It left House liberals furious.

“In order to get resources to the children fastest, we will reluctantly pass the Senate bill,” Ms. Pelosi said in a letter to Democratic lawmakers. “As we pass the Senate bill, we will do so with a battle cry as to how we go forward to protect children in a way that truly honors their dignity and worth.”

Her retreat came after Vice President Mike Pence gave Ms. Pelosi private assurances that the administration would abide by some of the restrictions she had sought. They included a requirement to notify lawmakers within 24 hours after the death of a migrant child in government custody, and a 90-day time limit on children spending time in temporary intake facilities, according to a person familiar with the discussions.

A last-minute revolt by centrist lawmakers ensured the demise of Ms. Pelosi’s efforts to toughen the conditions in the Senate’s $4.6 billion bill. The moderate Democrats had begun to worry about the possibility of leaving Washington on Friday for a weeklong July 4 recess without having cleared the humanitarian aid, and some were balking at a funding reduction for Immigration and Customs Enforcement. That left the House floor in chaos, with emotions running high. Ms. Pelosi was left with little choice but to accept the less restrictive Senate bill, which had passed on a lopsided bipartisan vote this week and would do far less to rein in Mr. Trump’s immigration crackdown.

snip


here are the numbers, including leadership who voted NO, plus almost all the Hispanic Caucus and a majority of the CBC voted NO.

this was the FINAL VOTE

https://projects.propublica.org/represent/votes/116/house/1/429




this shows it was the final vote taken on it by the House

https://projects.propublica.org/represent/bills/116/hr3401





these are the Dem NO votes

Member Party Dist.

Alma Adams D NC-12
Pete Aguilar D CA-31
Nanette Barragán D CA-44
Karen Bass D CA-37
Donald Beyer D VA-8
Earl Blumenauer D OR-3
Suzanne Bonamici D OR-1
Brendan Boyle D PA-2
Anthony Brown D MD-4
G. K. Butterfield D NC-1
Tony Cárdenas D CA-29
André Carson D IN-7
Judy Chu D CA-27
David Cicilline D RI-1
Gilbert Cisneros D CA-39
Katherine Clark D MA-5
Yvette D. Clarke D NY-9
William Lacy Clay D MO-1
Gerald E. Connolly D VA-11
J. Luis Correa D CA-46
Danny K. Davis D IL-7
Peter A. DeFazio D OR-4
Diana DeGette D CO-1
Rosa DeLauro D CT-3
Mark DeSaulnier D CA-11
Debbie Dingell D MI-12
Lloyd Doggett D TX-35
Eliot L. Engel D NY-16
Veronica Escobar D TX-16
Adriano Espaillat D NY-13
Dwight Evans D PA-3
Ruben Gallego D AZ-7
Jesús García D IL-4
Sylvia Garcia D TX-29
Jimmy Gomez D CA-34
Raúl M. Grijalva D AZ-3
Debra Haaland D NM-1
Brian Higgins D NY-26
Katie Hill D CA-25
Steven Horsford D NV-4
Jared Huffman D CA-2
Sheila Jackson Lee D TX-18
Pramila Jayapal D WA-7
Hakeem Jeffries D NY-8
Joseph P. Kennedy III D MA-4
Ro Khanna D CA-17
Brenda Lawrence D MI-14
Barbara Lee D CA-13
Andy Levin D MI-9
John Lewis D GA-5
Ted Lieu D CA-33
Zoe Lofgren D CA-19
Alan Lowenthal D CA-47
Nita M. Lowey D NY-17
Ben Ray Luján D NM-3
Carolyn B. Maloney D NY-12
Betty McCollum D MN-4
A. Donald McEachin D VA-4
Jim McGovern D MA-2
Gregory W. Meeks D NY-5
Grace Meng D NY-6
Gwen Moore D WI-4
Debbie Mucarsel-Powell D FL-26
Jerrold Nadler D NY-10
Grace F. Napolitano D CA-32
Joe Neguse D CO-2
Donald W. Norcross D NJ-1
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez D NY-14
Ilhan Omar D MN-5
Frank Pallone D NJ-6
Bill Pascrell Jr. D NJ-9
Mark Pocan D WI-2
Ayanna Pressley D MA-7
David E. Price D NC-4
Mike Quigley D IL-5
Jamie Raskin D MD-8
Lucille Roybal-Allard D CA-40
Linda T. Sánchez D CA-38
Mary Gay Scanlon D PA-5
Jan Schakowsky D IL-9
Brad Sherman D CA-30
Adam Smith D WA-9
Darren Soto D FL-9
Jackie Speier D CA-14
Mark Takano D CA-41
Dina Titus D NV-1
Rashida Tlaib D MI-13
Paul Tonko D NY-20
Norma Torres D CA-35
Lori Trahan D MA-3
Juan Vargas D CA-51
Marc Veasey D TX-33
Filemon Vela D TX-34
Nydia M. Velázquez D NY-7
Peter Welch D VT-1

and the DNV (for whatever reason, in some cases (5 are candidates) they were out campaigning)

Did Not Vote (D)

Joaquín Castro D TX-20
Tulsi Gabbard D HI-2
Alcee L. Hastings D FL-20
Marcy Kaptur D OH-9
Seth Moulton D MA-6
Nancy Pelosi D CA-12
Cedric Richmond D LA-2
Tim Ryan D OH-13
Kurt Schrader D OR-5
Eric Swalwell D CA-15 would have voted NO https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/2019/06/28/extensions-of-remarks-section/article/E867-2
Frederica Wilson D FL-24

* By tradition, the Speaker of the House votes at his or her discretion. In cases where the Speaker does not vote, that absence is not counted in the "Not Voting" totals displayed here, but Represent adds the Speaker's name to the list of people who did not vote.



The Senate version only passed in the House with Rethug help (they actually voted for it in much larger numbers than the Democratic caucus did).

This entire thing was 100% on the No Labels/Problem Solvers/Blue Dog clique. (get used to this happening a lot)

They sprung a last minute refusal to support unless ICE was given more money.

Josh Gottheimer (Problem Solvers co-Chair,the other is a Rethug) ran point for them.


















Gottheimer got a lot of pushback when he had a townhall back in his home district




1) @RepJoshG led the fight pass Trump and McConnell's border bill.
2) At a town hall today, his constituents blasted him for it.
3) He told them he had nothing to do with it!
4) The patron of the caucus he leads bragged that they totally did it.

Also Josh’s group No Labels bragged that Josh did the thing he’s now pretending he didn’t do.





https://www.insidernj.com/watch-animated-gottheimer-town-hall-weekend-activist-engage-congressman-ice-funding/





Dem leadership was split over this

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, Majority Whip Jim Clyburn, and DCCC Chair Cheri Bustos voted in favour of the bill, while other members of leadership, including Democratic Caucus Chair Hakeem Jeffries, and Assistant Democratic Leader Ben Ray Luján, who is running for Senate in New Mexico, voted against it.The Congressional Hispanic Caucus also recommended the House vote against the Senate border spending bill.



House Progressives Cry ‘Betrayal’ and Say Moderate Democrats Sold Out Detained Children

https://www.thedailybeast.com/house-progressives-cry-betrayal-and-say-moderate-democrats-sold-out-detained-children


Five Takeaways From the Border Aid Vote

The vote on Thursday exposed a number of realities about the House majority and its relationship with the Senate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/27/us/politics/border-aid-vote-takeaways.html

snip

The power of the Democrats’ moderate wing far outweighed that of the liberal wing.

In the past, Ms. Pelosi and her leadership team have bowed to the party’s moderate wing, which was a critical force behind decisions to punt on releasing a budget resolution and to pull legislation that would have effectively given members a pay bump.

But top leaders spent days negotiating additions to the House bill that the party’s liberal flank had requested, even as some moderate members quietly expressed discomfort with the prospect of cutting funding to Immigration and Customs Enforcement and producing a bill that the Republican majority in the Senate could not stomach.

Ultimately, under pressure to get a bill to the president’s desk before recess, Ms. Pelosi ceded to threats from moderate members and agreed to put the Senate bill on the floor.

The vote on Thursday — which almost had more Republican votes of support than Democratic — underscored how powerful the moderate members of the Democratic caucus can be when united with Republicans.

A break appeared in the Democratic leadership.

Ms. Pelosi’s closest lieutenants, Representatives Steny H. Hoyer of Maryland, the majority leader, and James E. Clyburn of South Carolina, the majority whip, voted in favor of the Senate bill. (Ms. Pelosi, as is customary for the speaker, did not vote.)

But the second tier of leadership — widely seen as next in line to ascend to the top of the House Democratic leadership — did not. Representative Hakeem Jeffries of New York, the caucus chairman; Representative Ben Ray Luján of New Mexico, the assistant speaker; and Representative Katherine M. Clark of Massachusetts, the caucus vice chairwoman, voted “no.”

The two representatives for the freshman class, Representatives Joe Neguse of Colorado and Katie Hill of California, also voted against the bill.

snip

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 06:37 PM

83. "or a woman or a woman of color or blah blah blah."???????!!!!!

Fk this guy.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 06:44 PM

85. Rick is 1000% right, but the puritans want scorched earth or nothing. That is no way for the Dems to

win.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 09:17 PM

86. The Democratic Party needs a leader ...

Rick Wilson doesn't qualify.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 09:40 PM

87. I am giving this a rec. Right now, there are many Never Trumpers who want to walk with us...

... against Trump. You can get your nose out of joint, and tell him (and others) to go fuck themselves, but that is a shot in your OWN DAMN FOOT.

The left of our party (both elected politicians and civilians) seem completely clueless at the existential threat to our very way of life that is represented by Trump.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:42 PM

90. He's right. nt

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Thu Jul 11, 2019, 10:55 PM

93. Nice rant. AOC was doing wonderfully until this latest

beef. I was with her 100% on the concentration camps. I know she's frustrated as hell, but she's not a private citizen anymore. I, as a private citizen, have the luxury of lashing out on Nancy. She doesn't. Time to tighten up and stay focused on the real enemy-- trump.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 03:13 AM

95. Rick Wilson is absolutely correct.. I don't care who he is..





Nancy's thinking about Winning the House Again in 2020..

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 09:21 AM

97. The progressive movement(AOC) is the future

of this party. I'm "old" but i can recognize that.

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Response to Oregon1947 (Reply #97)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 10:24 AM

98. welcome to DU

where in Oregon are you from?

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Response to Oregon1947 (Reply #97)

Fri Jul 12, 2019, 04:04 PM

99. Welcome to DU from another 1947 kid. n/t

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