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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCNN: Now we know why Donald Trump was SO focused on Michael Flynn
There must be so much more going on than we've been guessing at...
Will McConnell and Barr be able to contain the whole mess ?
Now we seem to know why.
Trump was worried -- and it turns out, rightly -- that Flynn knew things that would be problematic for the President as it related to Russia. And that if Flynn cooperated with special counsel Robert Mueller's probe -- as he eventually did -- it would have negative consequences for the administration. Court records released Thursday night revealed previously unknown details of Flynn's cooperation. Here's the key bit from the story:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/17/politics/donald-trump-michael-flynn/index.html
empedocles
(15,751 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)BamaRefugee
(3,488 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,830 posts)since he came down the escalator to enter the presidential race while declaring Mexico was sending rapists and other criminals to the US.
klook
(12,193 posts)Oh, wait - that only applies to Democrats.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Right. Only six Trump advisers, 26 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man, and one London-based lawyer indicted or got guilty pleas from.
No doubt, the media's Henny Penny act will remain unchanged regardless of the eventual denouement. It looks too clever on t-shirts to refine and update as things progress.
Perseus
(4,341 posts)My goodness, the list that "will bring the buffoon down" is so long, and there he still is crapping with his mouth every time he opens it, and nothing happens...Not only the USA, but the World is going to be very sorry if the buffoon, his family and his minions are not brought down, jailed, the chaos these people will create everywhere will pail in comparison to WWII.
BamaRefugee
(3,488 posts)elfin
(6,262 posts)Or "Has he gone to far this time?"
All meaningless in the march of neo-fascists destroying our nation for their own greed and power.
BamaRefugee
(3,488 posts)spanone
(136,139 posts)Last edited Fri May 17, 2019, 02:53 PM - Edit history (1)
True Blue American
(18,009 posts)Corrupt Judges in the country to conceal it all.
NewJeffCT
(56,830 posts)the unredacted one is the one that has all the grand jury testimony and the 12 hidden (redacted) cases farmed out to other US attorneys
matt819
(10,749 posts)it's not having consequences for this administration.
Though, if/when it does have consequences, it sure will be interesting to see how those dominos fall.
Pluvious
(4,399 posts)Rumors are the Murdoch men have soured on the Con.
Tic tock MF
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)Leghorn21
(13,535 posts)soon, right after he was cleared of any wrongdoing! People told dumbass NOT to contact Flynn, but he did, and sent at least one text to him saying, "Stay strong!"
hahahahaaaahaaaa, as of yesterday, tRump is truly SCREWN!!!
Chin music
(23,126 posts)You GD right Pres Obama was watching it. You GD right. Please, subpoena Pres Obama and watch the man walk in, and blow the lid off the whole "They were spying on us." Clap trap.
happybird
(4,741 posts)President Obama warned him about Flynn during the transition.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/08/us/politics/obama-flynn-trump.amp.html
BigmanPigman
(51,776 posts)He does everything that is anti-Obama or the opposite of what a real president would do, especially Obama.
happybird
(4,741 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,776 posts)Joan Rivers would say, "Oh grow up!".
Aristus
(66,717 posts)As much as I would love for some brave patriot to surreptitiously send the unredacted report to Congress as evidence, I'm worried that when the whole smash went to a judge, he/she could strike down the report, all evidence obtained therein, all subpoenas sent in the wake of, etc. because the report was 'illegally obtained'.
I think the legal term is 'fruit of the poisoned tree.'
tinrobot
(10,950 posts)The special counsel law requires it.
As to how they can obtain it through the courts... uncharted waters.
stuffmatters
(2,574 posts)It'd also start to educate the public without the Barr/Trump/McConnell info obstruction just as the House and the public learned daily more and more Nixon ugly facts. Watergate Hearings were certainly Must See Tv back then. Nixon started with an approval over60%, the daily public,televised Impeachment Investigation/ Hearings slowly cooked his goose. By the time of the tape revelation, he was already sunk in public opinion.
Seems if there was an official Impeachment Investigation opened, neither Trump or Barr would be unable to continue to hide the
Mueller Report and supporting evidence or shelter themselves or witnesses with claims of the right to executive privilege.
Because The House has the clear right to investigate all evidence in an Impeachment investigation/hearings. Not even Trump's kangaroo SCOTUS can shield either of them from Congress' full duty and right to uncover all documents & testimony to determine impeachment. That's my read on impeachment.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Flynn did flip, and Mueller found that any "collusion" didn't rise to a criminal level. Unfortunately for the country.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)He's quite a logical contortionist.
rockfordfile
(8,716 posts)Not some right-wing white wash.
Chin music
(23,126 posts)not 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. Big difference there.
Mueller has been a huge huge disappointment. (To me.)
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)As Preet Bharara said, Mueller's findings were based on his judgment. When Bill Maher asked him if someone else might have or could have had a different judgment call, Preet said almost immediately, "yes."
Mueller was a big disappointment to me. He could easily have found conspiring, aiding-abetting proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but that he can't indict, since he follows the DOJ policy on that. But he chose to "judge" that the evidence didn't rise to "proof beyond a reasonable doubt."
Chin music
(23,126 posts)19 other prosecutors got paid too. The cases in SDNY will be stomped out by Barr, bc, what's stopping him? Nada.
maxsolomon
(33,555 posts)Mueller said explicitly that DOJ policy prevented him from indicting Asshole, so the SC couldn't accuse him of a crime he could not defend himself from.
Mueller also said that if he could clear Trump of obstruction, he would have.
Read the report.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)As I recall, he found that there was evidence of conspiring or aiding-abetting, but it didn't rise to the level of proving beyond a reasonable doubt (criminal).
Maybe I'm misremembering, though. I'll check.
UPDATE: I checked. My memory is correct:
https://www.vox.com/2019/4/18/18484965/mueller-report-trump-no-collusion
Chin music
(23,126 posts)Your memory is sharp.
maxsolomon
(33,555 posts)you have to prove an agreement was made, and how the fuck are you going to do that when both sides are mobsters?
It's enough to Impeach, however.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Trump NEVER fired Flynn. Flynn quit on his own. We learned that a month or two ago.
Another error: "...wound up not implicating Trump or anyone in his orbit in collusion with the Russians..."
Give me a break. That was Mueller's judgment, but he had to apply some flimsy, nonsensical "logic" to get there. For example, Turd Jr. didn't collude when he met with Russians offering stolen information on his daddy's political opponent, on behalf of the Russian government (explicitly so). How is that not collusion? Well, seems Turd Jr. is too stupid to know that's a crime. Try that in traffic court some time.
Chin music
(23,126 posts)SunSeeker
(52,049 posts)And Mueller said it was too difficult to determine the value of the Russian assistance/emails provided, so he assigned it ZERO value, thus knocking out the "in exchange for a thing of value" element!! Yes, it's hard to determine the value of a lot of things. But we do it all the time, and it certainly makes no sense to give it zero value, for fuck's sake.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)trueblue2007
(17,290 posts)vlyons
(10,252 posts)How about "fatal" to his presidency, legacy, and freedom. Those F'ers, Trump and Flynn, sold their country out, and for what? In Flynn's case for money in the private sector. To set up Saudi nuclear reactors in the middle. Flynn was a 3 star general, and the very thought of plating tit-for-tat with the Russians should have been anathema to him. In the case of Trump, well greed for money for sure, but narcissistic self-adoration for sure. They both should be charged with treason.
Chin music
(23,126 posts)Fraternizing w the enemy at the very least, high treason it looks like to me.
Farmer-Rick
(10,326 posts)So, who is protecting Trump? Is Putin really this powerful? Is the Senate the real protector? Are Comey and Mueller just window dressing pretending to investigate while actually deflecting? What are our American capitalist Kings getting out of all this? Are they happy with being represented by a traitor and a nude model? Is our democracy and government so compromised it is unable to hold such an obvious crook accountable?
maxsolomon
(33,555 posts)The Constitution, the power of the Presidency, the DOJ, the Senate, and his party.
The ultra-rich got a massive tax cut, which is what they wanted.
Duppers
(28,147 posts)...their tax rates, the tide will turn.
maxsolomon
(33,555 posts)rescuing their (and our) portfolios was a bipartisan effort in 2008/9. wall st. is what the government exists to protext - capital.
Duppers
(28,147 posts)Affecting capital? Should we be concerned that China will stop buying US notes?
Obviously, rising consumer prices won't affect the uber wealthy. Then they aren't concerned about any of tRump's policies?
MFM008
(19,862 posts)To stay in power.
No matter what he does
The useful idiot is needed.
kimbutgar
(21,381 posts)Sadly, I doubt it will be played in the alternative faux right wing media though.
Kablooie
(18,672 posts)This offers some more detail and might implicate some more players but we still don't know what Trump was so scared of. We've known all along that he thought Flynn would reveal something devastating to him. That's been obvious from the start.
But exactly what is it that he thought would destroy him? Nothing revealed by Mueller's interviews has been destructive to Trump's power. Was he just paranoid for no reason? Had he not done anything wrong but was scared that he had?
I think there is something hidden deeper that we still don't know about. We may never know about it. I can't believe Trump was this terrified of being exposed for no reason at all.
ck4829
(35,126 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,888 posts)All I got from it was evidence of obstruction. But it didn't reveal any information from Flynn that would implicate Trump on anything. Or is this the big deal? Did Trump succeed in getting to Flynn's testimony?