General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsImagine this and you can see how the American people are dangerously disconnected.
Imagine, in the summer of 2016 Trump appeared on TV and asked Russia to find Clintons files. Soon afterwards Russians agents picked a lock and broke into DNC headquarters and stole their files and the files of Clintons campaign manager. The FBI informs the public Russian agents broke into DNC headquarters and stole their files . Trump denies Russian agents committed this crime. Some fat guy or China did it.
Russia then mailed the files to a news organization. Trump fires the head of the FBI who is investigating the break in of the DNC headquarters.
Would the American people be reacting differently if the crime happened this way, instead of by the internet? Same fucking crime, different route taken to commit the crime.
The American people are ignoring a major attack on our democracy, on our country. That may be more dangerous than Trump himself.
Turbineguy
(37,392 posts)with the republican party. In Watergate the Republicans were involved in the investigation. Now they are involved in the coverup. Guys like Howard Baker would never be elected by the republican voters.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,947 posts)He's best remembered for his "What did the president know, and when did he know it?" question to John Dean. But the question was actually intended to help Nixon's case.
Through the first half of that year, Nixon trusted Baker and vice versa. The White House and Baker were in frequent contact. Nixons staff prepared a strategy memo for Baker suggesting ways he could keep the hearings from becoming a political circus. The whole inquiry, they wrote, was a witch hunt. (Sound familiar?) In fact, they wrote, the President himself could inform Baker that it was actually the Democrats who had bugged his offices in 1968. . . .
When it was Bakers turn to interrogate Dean, his goal was to prove that the accusations against the President were based on circumstantial evidence. Baker carefully questioned the former White House lawyer, attempting to prove that he had no direct evidence of the Presidents role in the break in or in any cover up. Dean held his own, ultimately testifying that he and Nixon discussed the cover up 35 times.
Baker was subdued after Deans testimony. The Committee took a two-week break. Shortly after it resumed work, it learned of the Presidents secret Oval Office tapes. Now, it wasnt just Deans word against the Presidents. Not only that, but the level of Bakers involvement with the White House could be exposed.
It was only after Dean's testimony that Baker gradually started to change his mind about Nixon. https://www.brennancenter.org/blog/curious-history-%E2%80%98what-did-president-know-and-when-did-he-know-it%E2%80%99
Turbineguy
(37,392 posts)I did not know that. I just remembered his questioning toward the end of the hearings that I watched. I suppose there would be republican senators who would desert trump in his hour of need, but it's McConnell's job to make sure it never gets that far.
Beartracks
(12,827 posts)... it does seem to be the job he's doing - and perhaps also the job for which he received the most compensation?
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NYMinute
(3,256 posts)There was no Fox news and RWNJ radio.
If that had existed, even Nixon would have survived.
PeeJ52
(1,588 posts)of the people thought Nixon had done something wrong. It took hearing the tapes for themselves that put them over the edge.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,947 posts)was along party lines, with few GOPers voting yes on any of them.
Article I: Obstruction of Justice Passed 2711. Democrats: 21 yes, 0 no - Republicans: 6 yes, 11 no
Article II: Abuse of Power Passed 2810. Democrats: 21 yes, 0 no - Republicans: 7 yes, 10 no
Article III: Contempt of Congress Passed 2117. Democrats: 19 yes, 2 no - Republicans: 2 yes, 15 no
Article IV: Cambodia bombing Failed 1226. Democrats: 12 yes, 9 no - Republicans: 0 yes, 17 no
Article V: Failure to pay taxes Failed 1226. Democrats: 12 yes, 9 no - Republicans: 0 yes, 17 no
empedocles
(15,751 posts)FakeNoose
(32,854 posts)When Chump said "Russia I hope you're listening..." he already KNEW they had the DNC emails. He had to assume that at least some of those emails would embarrass the Clinton campaign.
The Watergate break-in was a fishing expedition, or campaign dirty tricks. "Russia I hope you're listening," was outright collusion on national television.
Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)will stand by tRump, when their own political future is on the line? McConnell has made his millions. What does he have to lose? His reputation? Everyone knows he is a slimebag and a toady. Once the rest of the dirt on tRump is exposed, it will be impossible to defend the rat bastard. Even he knows that. He makes Nixon look like a choirboy. Kellyanne Conway seems to be having a hard time these days. Saw her on TV today, looking like "ten miles of bad road". Big bags under her eyes, droopy hair. Looked really rough. Defending the indefensible must not be worth the money.
Beartracks
(12,827 posts)PatrickforO
(14,602 posts)First, through impeachment hearings, and then on the primary campaign trail.
Every single one of us is responsible for getting the word out because the corporate-owned media ain't gonna do it.
ancianita
(36,207 posts)and expensive.
People might think "we're too big to fail." Not me.
I'm wondering lately whether "we're too big to succeed."
What I mean is, when people -- 4/5 of whom live paycheck to paycheck, and perhaps cannot afford high speed internet or cable news,
and whose days are so taken up on making ends meet -- just, through no fault of their own, lose touch,
not just because of income gaps,
but because of the huge spaces across the country that allow them to withdraw into passive isolation,
and as an unintended consequence,
to easily ignore the slow rolling disaster of government their country is experiencing.
It's hard out there.
My New Mexico son tells me this all the time.
They've got all they can do to keep their lives together.
And now, they've got to deal with a crooked president?
An impeachment?
An election?
19 Democratic presidential candidates?
Which is why, as I see it lately, Bernie is going to hundreds of small towns around the country. He wants them to know that they're not forgotten, not coping alone, and all he asks is that they give him a chance to prove it.
I'm in for Jay Inslee, but everytime I see this man, he looks like he's in the "die trying" zone, just to get this country to be a fair and equitable one.
I think he sees the danger noted in your post -- and me, too -- in the gaps of money and distance.
Pobeka
(4,999 posts)FakeNoose
(32,854 posts)That's why they'e getting away with so much stuff.
It's maddening! They get rewarded for ignoring the rules.
ancianita
(36,207 posts)Their reward, imo, is a special place in hell -- Dante's ninth rung -- in which the betrayers of whole countries are frozen with Satan.
Dante's image is good enough for this atheist.
In this life, I hope we can actually punish them by driving them out of the Senate and White House.
True Dough
(17,359 posts)As I've mentioned several times, I frequent a sports discussion forum and there's a "general" section that has many threads of a political nature. There are many right-wing posters on the sight.
One person started a thread titled "I would vote for Putin before I vote for Hillary." There were several people who echoed that sentiment. I couldn't believe the crap I was reading! But that's how jaded some people are. How do we win them back? Or do we even want them back??? Or maybe Russian bots are creating those sorts of threads. Who knows?
lunatica
(53,410 posts)The majority of the American people, at least 60%, are not ignoring this at all!
Duppers
(28,130 posts)I know a lot of ostriches.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)They obviously dont give a shit about Trump because if they did theyd be MAGATs.
Its not like he lets anyone ignore him!
paleotn
(18,002 posts)THEY...that's right....they in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio specifically. There was a time when the first 3 were Dem strongholds and Ohio was a toss up. Not anymore. Shit head should not have come even close to winning in the first 3.
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)We even made the mistake of saying that viewing Russia as a threat was backwards looking.
I was totally ok with that strategy as it worked flawlessly against Mittens in the General that year, but it felt likely false at the time and lo and behold we're still paying the price for that shortsightedness, as it's hard to reverse course from that and just a few short years later tell people that they're the biggest threat this country has ever faced.