Out on disability... just got fired

[FirstLight]

I think it's time to get a lawyer.

They didn't even do it in writing, just left me a damn message...

I've worked for them since 2015
And supposedly when on disability, you are guaranteed to come back to your job... but not this time.

I've been keeping them in the loop, giving updates on getting better, but they wait till I ask about coming back to tell me to fuck off?

I guess it's a sign that something better is out there...but I really loved that job, and ppl I worked with in the community are gonna miss me...

[Evergreen Emerald]

1. It never hurts to consult a lawyer

Keep all of your communication.

[TexasBushwhacker]

69. I would say just go straight to the EEOC

No lawyer would take a case like this without money up front and without a job, you need to conserve cash. If there are any employment laws broken the EEOC will run with it and you don't have to pay a dime.

[janterry]

2. I'm so sorry

[lunatica]

3. I think you're right

Do you belong to a union? Although you don’t need one in this case.

From what I know of the laws you might be getting your job back pretty quickly. Good on you for not just accepting it!

[Miigwech]

4. This is not right. Good luck to you with this.

[wcmagumba]

5. Corporate america sucks...

Sorry about your job, something better will turn up, stay active and keep your spirits up. A few years back a friend had a similar situation. She had to take a number of weeks off for a medical issue and her large metro school district simply "discontinued" her job when her sick leave was used up. She had been a good and faithful employee for over 10 years. She eventually found a better position and is very happy.

[FirstLight]

6. Not a corporate gig, non-profit...

I guess they think labor laws don't apply to them.

At this point I guess I don't want to go back if they are gonna be this way...but they'd better not fight me on unemployment since they let me go...

[Honeycombe8]

36. If they fired you after you were out for 12 weeks, they abided by the law.

I'm surprised they didn't discuss this with you...give you the scoop on when you needed to return, to preserve your job. IF you had been there at least a year.

I'm so sorry. I hope you're well enough to look for another job, and hope you get one. Will you be able to get a reference?

[FM123]

7. I am so sorry! What an awful way to do this.

Yes, maybe you should look into getting an attorney. Also get a notebook and start writing stuff down, everything you can remember about what has been happening....

[Va Lefty]

8. Hopefully you don't live in a "right to work" state

What a misnomer. Here in VA. they can fire you for almost any reason. Hope things work out for you!

[Ms. Toad]

10. Not when it violates federal law -

like the ADA or FMLA (both of which can apply to people with disabilities - or on leave because of a disability)

[cstanleytech]

23. I am just wondering what if any limits are there to such a leave? I mean surely it cannot be

an infinite time because that would put companies in a bind especially if its a key job that they need someone to be doing.

[Ms. Toad]

54. 12 weeks in a 12 month period

There are 4 start dates for the 12 month period (at the employer's option) - calendar, rolling, starting with the 1st day of leave, and I forget what the 4th is. The time doesn't have to be consecutive - for example I took 5 days at the start of my FMLA for a spiral fracture in my leg, but every absence attributed to the same event over the next year will be covered (i.e. medical appointments, surgery if they need to remove the pin in my leg, or random days off if my body just needs more of a break than I'm giving it to heal)

As to the key job - there are exceptions for employees who are so invaluable that the company cannot function without them, although it plays out in what you get when you return. The company does not have to return you to the same position, only a comparable one. So there may not be a comparable one if they had to fill the position (and there were a limited number of qualified people who could fill it, necessitating hiring a permanent replacement, for esample).

The company also has to have 50 employees before this kicks in, so it has the ability to shift the work around.

[OhNo-Really]

68. Omg! Do we all need to study labor laws to avoid the sandtraps?

Time to remove the word Mercy from the dictionary

[Ms. Toad]

71. My two personal experiences with it have been pretty pain free

Minimum wage job (daughter) at a chain grocery store, teacher/administrator at a university (me).

In both instances, the employer initiated the FMLA, and exercising it has been painless - both of us just identify the leave as FMLA when we need to take it. My daughter uses it at least one day every 8 weeks, with probably 5 more appointments throughout the year. Mine is for a single major medical incident (spiral fracture of the tibia). But neither of us is anywhere close to 12 weeks in a year, so I don't even know whehter we are on a calendar year or a rolling year. (That would matter to the OP - who would be over 12 weeks in a rolling year, but under in a calendar year)

But - since before FMLA there was no guarantee that any of us would have a job to return to after a major family medical incident, even though the details are complex, it is a significant improvement.

[OhNo-Really]

73. Yes, I agree it is better. Confusion can hide sin so ther's that

My former employer opted out of the confusion. All time off became paid or unpaid time off regardless of reason for time out. The new PTO mantra.

I wish the law guaranteed parents 14 days max paid sick leave at the very least...kids etc. like they used to before Draconian Braygon

FMLA requests was a huge hassle for all concerned.

[Ms. Toad]

74. Federal law never guaranteed paid leave - or any leave at all - before FMLA. n/t

[OhNo-Really]

76. Don't know law history, but ole enough to remember "paid sick leave"

It was standard for office work.

[theboss]

89. I mean....yea....

If you are going to go out on disability, I would advise knowing the rules.....

[guillaumeb]

77. That is FMLA.

The laws on disability vary slightly from Federal to non-Federal cases.

[Ms. Toad]

78. Correct - I was responding to a question about whether it could go on forever

in the context of the hardship FMLA would impose on an employer if they had to keep the job open forever.

Federal disability laws do not protect your job for you in the event of an absence. Disability/worker's comp/SSDI provide payment while you're out (with FMLA protecting your job for 12 weeks in a 12 month period); the ADA provides accommodations if you are able to perform the essential functions of your job with accommodations.

States are free to provide more protection, but can't cut short the FMLA leave (providing all of the employer/employee criteria are met)

[guillaumeb]

79. And being fired because one suffered an on the job injury is ilegal.

But proving it is difficult.

[Ms. Toad]

80. You can't be fired as retaliation for filing a claim following a work injury.

and (as a general rule) the employer cannot terminate you while you are recovering from a work injury. But once you've recovered as much as you are going to recover the ADA kicks in - and you will only be able to retain your job if you can perform the essential functions with accommodation.

ETA: In this case, it was a autoimmune disease, not a work-related injury.

[guillaumeb]

83. If the disease is aggravated by the employment,

it can be a compensable condition.

But a causal link must be shown between the pre-existing condition and the employment.

[Ms. Toad]

85. Unlikely with an autoimmune disease. n/t

[guillaumeb]

86. That depends.

One might be allergic to something in the work place.

Judging by your excellent comments. you are quite familiar with OWCP.

My experience in that was as a Union Steward in a Federal Agency.

[Ms. Toad]

90. I'm an attorney,

and I assembled and edited the materials for an employment non-discrimination class while in law school a couple of decades ago (the more directly applicable professional knowledge - although not specifically OWCP).

I also have a daughter with 2 autoimmune diseases - as well as cancer (3 years ago) and a spiral fracture (in January). That's where my most recent knowledge comes in - expecially as to disability, FMLA, sick/vacation leave - and the interplay between them - we're both off-and-on using FMLA and get to play with concurrent v. consecutive, paid v unpaid, etc. (My recent professional experience is largely IP practice & teaching the more mundane things that appear on the bar exam - which doesn't typically include workers comp.)

Tricky subject area - way too many moving parts for most people to keep track of without at least a working familiarity with FMLA/ADA/OWCP/SSDI/disability insurance. The conversation has been a good mental refresher.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. "Firing for any reason" is not "right to work," it's at-will employent, which is an understanding

of federal employment law that means your employer can fire you for any reason other than being a member of a protected class, or unless you are covered by a contract. "Right to work" is a state rule that means you can benefit from collective bargaining contracts without paying union dues.

[Va Lefty]

22. You are right. My error.

Thanks for correcting

[EndGOPPropaganda]

52. Agreed. But wrong term.

The true term for benefiting from union contracts without paying union dues is “dues freeloading”

Example: “Texas is a dues freeloading state”

Republicans want us to use the ROW term. Don’t due it (pun intended.)

[WhiskeyGrinder]

75. I call it "right to scab," myself.

[EndGOPPropaganda]

82. Also good

[area51]

9. I'm so sorry. n/t

[Beacool]

11. I'm sorry.

In this era employees are commodities to be disposed of as unwanted trash once TPTB don't consider them essential anymore. The years where one could work at a company until retirement are long gone.

I wish you the best and may your next job be better than your last one.

[Ms. Toad]

12. If it's a large enough company

Either the ADA or FMLA might apply to restore your job.

Depends on whether you can perform the essential functions of your job with accommodations, and on how long you've been out for FMLA. (There are some escape clauses - like the job was co mission critical that they could not hold it open for you, or you were terminated for a reason unrelated to taking leave - or you didn't properly notify them in advance of the need for leave (when advance notice was reasonably foreseeable.)

[FirstLight]

13. Gonna contact state disability monday

In .CA

I just want to make sure they don't try to screw me on unemployment

What really sucks is that they knew they were gonna let me go months ago.... I had a customer tell me in January at the grocery store that she had asked about me and they had said I was "no longer with them"
So obviously someone knew I was fired a long time ago

[Ms. Toad]

16. Good move.

Did anyone at the grocery store suggest FMLA? That's the federal law that protects your job when you need extended or frequent absences for medical reasons. Where I work they have very specific paperwork that I was required to fill out within 30 days of starting leave. I don't know if that is part of the federal law, or just our HR department.

In my case, it was annoying because I was fighting to get back to work at the time they were demanding I complete the FMLA paperwork for the 5 days I was out after battling black ice (and losing to the tune of a spiral fracture). I had planned to return to work on day 4 (which I told them on day 2), but they didn't bother to notify me that I had to be fully cleared to return to work (40 nours without accommodations) before I could set foot in the building until after the doctor's office closed on day 3.

But it was a combination of FMLA (to protect my job) and ADA (to allow me to work from home up to 32 hours a week) that I needed.

[Honeycombe8]

32. They had to wait 12 wks to fire you, which they did, seems like.

You were on short term disability, right? If you were getting paid anything, you were on short term disability. FMLA gives a worker a right to take time off, but doesn't provide for the payment of full or partial wages.

I'm assuming you worked there at least one year, which is required.

I looked it up, and the law seems to protect an employee for 12 weeks of short term disability or FMLA. You can be fired after 12 weeks.

BUT some states have separate short term disability laws.

https://www.growingfamilybenefits.com/disability-employment-termination/

The HR person, if there is one, didn't discuss with you when you were to return to work, or had to return?

[FirstLight]

48. Nope

I was never directed to go thru Fmla...they ngnever communicated with me at ALL. I was the one who kept them in the loop...
It's like they knew they were gonna let me go months ago and waited to tell me once they were in the clear...?

[Honeycombe8]

50. Does that org. have 50 or more employees?

It has to have 50 or more for any of these laws to apply.

I thought that the 12 weeks for short term disability and/or FMLA ran concurrently. But the post by the HR person seems to indicate they run one after the other.

So, I don't know.

Maybe an atty will charge you a nominal fee for a short consultation.

[Bayard]

40. Document everything--most important

And talk to your State Labor Board.

[uponit7771]

14. How long were you on disability? thx in advance

[FirstLight]

15. Since first week of Dec

Autoimmune disease

[Ms. Toad]

17. That would be FMLA -

You have to have worked there 12 months, 24 hours/week (average)
Your employer has to have 50 or more employees
Your leave has to be 12 weeks or less in a 12 month period (there are a number of ways to detrmine this period - calendar year is one (in which case you should be OK). A rolling 12 month period you might not be.

Autoimmune diseases suck, by the way.

[Drunken Irishman]

30. If it is FMLA, you won't get an infinite amount of time off...

Most places only allow for a specific amount of days to be covered. If you exhaust those days, you have to work for an extension to cover the days you're out or be held to the reliability guidelines of the company.

[Honeycombe8]

33. Your job is only protected for 12 weeks.

And under FMLA, your specific job isn't guaranteed. They just have to provide a comparable job w/comparable duties. Under short term disability, I don't think even that is guaranteed.

[Drunken Irishman]

34. Yup. You can get extensions but that's on you...

Unfortunately, I've seen it often happen where they'll go out on FMLA, exhaust the amount, and fail to extend their leave. At that point, you then can be terminated.

[Honeycombe8]

39. Yes. I've seen it, too. I can understand the 12 week limitation, though.

It's called "short term" disability for a reason. Insurance pays for it, so there are always deadlines. At some point, you can change it to long term disability. I had a coworker who did that. Her back problems were so severe that short term didn't do it for her.

However, that didn't include job protection. She was eventually terminated. Which may have been for the best, since she really couldn't work, anymore. She couldn't get out of bed some days, or stand for long, or sit for long.

But she'd reached retirement age, so it was fine for her, financially.

[Ms. Toad]

58. Employers aren't required to offer extensions

(absent a state law that grants more rights than the federal one)

[Ms. Toad]

51. It's federal law (not "most places")

and I recited the length of time in my post (12 weeks in a 12 month period - with the employer having the right to choose the start of the 12 month period).

A qualifying employer cannot choose to offer less time federal law requires. So the time is the same - unless you have an employer that offers -or state law that mandates - more time.

[Drunken Irishman]

53. I never said they could.

No need to take a hostile tone.

[Ms. Toad]

55. Just reacting to your response that seemed to suggest

you were answering without having read my post, in which I addressed the duration of leave (and also seemed to imply the choice was up to the employer).

[Drunken Irishman]

57. The employer will work on specific extensions.

I deal with FMLA all the time as a manager. I feel we're very flexible with the employee when they exhaust their FMLA.

[Ms. Toad]

59. But that's not a right under FMLA (which is what i was addressing)

It is just an employer working to keep a valuable employee.

[sarcasmo]

18. Lawyer up.

[a kennedy]

19. Damn, and would be different if you didn't like the job....it's tough.

Hope the right decision comes to you soon, and good luck with it.

[McCamy Taylor]

21. Your state may have an office for this. Look for an employment office.

[arthritisR_US]

24. I too think you should contact a lawyer.

Bloody sods!

[Pepsidog]

25. Sorry to hear.

[Sherman A1]

26. Contact a lawyer and

document everything.

[Omaha Steve]

81. Exactly

To bad they are like this.

[donkeypoofed]

27. You'll get some money in a lawsuit

They clearly need to be taught a lesson - and you're just the person to teach it to them.

Go see a lawyer, pronto.

[Honeycombe8]

28. Oh, no. I'm so sorry. That's rough. Did they say why?

For short term disability, workers usu. get partial pay. So is that going to stop, if you were getting it?

This is really bad news. I'm so sorry.

[Different Drummer]

29. Sorry to hear about this!

Talk to an employment law attorney and, if you can, sue them!

[DirtEdonE]

31. Companies wait quietly for your Family Leave time to run out

Then they fire you.

Depending on the policies your company has in place, the Family Leave Act may require them to apply all accrued paid time such as sick time, vacation time, personal days - whatever paid days your company provides and you haven't used BEFORE your Family Leave time begins.

If date of the total of your Family Leave time plus your accrued paid time hasn't passed you might want to call an attorney. You might still have time to reverse their decision.

Good luck.

[Drunken Irishman]

37. A lot of companies will work with the person when their leave runs out...

But what often happens is that they don't get the appropriate paperwork in after their leave has been exhausted and after a period of time, the company has no choice but to terminate the employee. It sucks but it's so very important you make sure all your ducks are in a row when you take a LOA.

[DirtEdonE]

38. They've perverted the Family Leave Act

It was intended to protect employees who needed time off for various reasons but the employers use it as a cudgel. You have to research the parameters yourself because they won't inform you until it's too late, or so they think.

They send the paperwork the day after your Family Leave time runs out. This is done by HR departments across the nation, purposely.

[Honeycombe8]

41. He was out on short term disability. That's covered by disability insurance.

That runs out, seems like, at 12 weeks.

Short term disability is, well, short.

FMLA only protects your job for 12 weeks, too, I think.

Good companies that treat employees well discuss all these things w/employees when they take short term disability or FMLA leave. Mine did for coworkers, I think.

[DirtEdonE]

45. It's all sketchy

Depends on state laws and company policy in place at the time. They'll try to rid themselves of potentially expensive injured or sick employees but if you make enough of a fuss they'll usually back down - as long as it appears you're ready to fight and the policies and/or law may be on your side.

[Honeycombe8]

47. If he worked for a small business, none of this applies, anyway, I think.

Yeah...too many questions.

Maybe an atty will charge him just a bit for a one hour consultation.

[Drunken Irishman]

42. I think it depends on the company...

I am a manager in a large world-wide enterprise who deals with FMLA/LOA and ADA accommodations on the routine and while the ball is absolutely in the employee's court to get the necessary documentation filed, we absolutely will work with the person so they don't inevitably lose their job. IF they lose their job it's because they've completely ghosted the company or refused to turn in documentation.

I think it depends on who you work for, unfortunately.

[Ms. Toad]

61. Generally, the paid time leave runs simultaneously with FMLA

Even if you have paid time off, if it exceeds 12 weeks, there is no guarantee (under federal law) that you will be able to use it, because paid leave (if you choose, or are required to, take it runs concurrently with FMLA)

However, workers may choose to, or employers may require them to, substitute accrued paid sick, vacation, or personal time for FMLA leave. Substitute means that the paid leave provided by the employer will run concurrently with the unpaid FMLA leave

https://www.dol.gov/sites/default/files/PaidLeaveFinalRuleComparison.pdf

[TalenaGor]

35. HR here

if you work there for a year at least and worked at least 1250 hours in that year then you qualify for FMLA that's federal job protection.....
FMLA allows you to have up to 12 weeks of unpaid leave from work without fear of termination.....

When you went out on disability they should have submitted paperwork to offer you FMLA if they did not they're in violation and you have a case

That paperwork would have required you to get a medical certification from your doctor stating the reasons the estimated length of time Etc..... That would have put you in compliance then they would have given you a letter stating that your FMLA is approved and from there they track how many hours you are out and you keep them informed of any changes progress or adjustments as needed

When you're ready to return to work you would have to get your doctor's certification that it's okay to come back to work and any restrictions that might be in place..... Your employer would have to comply with that


Once those 12 weeks are up however you no longer have that job protection and they can legitimately terminate your position....

Your state may have additional leave laws that are worth checking into

If they never offered you FMLA, in writing with the federal forms then they are in violation..... Definitely get a lawyer 😁

[DirtEdonE]

43. +1 - but is the requirement still in place

That if your leave goes on for over 12 weeks your employer must apply all accrued paid time before the Family Leave's 12 weeks begins?

[Ms. Toad]

62. The employer may require you to take accrued leave -

but it runs concurrently with FMLA.

In other works FMLA protects your job, but no money coming in. If you have leave, you can (or your employer can require you) to take that for as long you have accrued leave - but it does not extend the job guarantee.

[TalenaGor]

72. yep

[Honeycombe8]

46. If his employer is a small business (fewer than 50 employees), none of this applies...

right?

He worked for a non-profit.

The FMLA 12 weeks and short term disability 12 weeks allowed don't run concurrently? He took short term disability (which would have been partial wages) for over 12 weeks.

[Ms. Toad]

63. They run concurrently.

FMLA (if applicable) protects the job and maintains benefits (e.g. health insurance)
Short term disability provides income. (FMLA is unpaid - unless you have accrued leave, disability, etc.)

50 employees is the cut-off; below that the federal law does not apply. (But there may be state laws that do)

[George II]

44. Now sure what state you're in, but most have protection for such cases. Document EVERYTHING!

And see a lawyer. Many will take the case on contingency, you won't have to pay anything unless you win (but be careful about "costs", you can get stiffed)

Document what you can for your lawyer:

How many in your job description
Ages
Genders
Races

Paperwork they gave you, they have to report the dismissal to the state for unemployment purposes.

[TNNurse]

49. Firing you in a message is suspicious behavior.

Hope you find legal help.

After I finished chemo and was unable to work 12 hr shifts, I went to part time. I learned that part time people would no longer get health insurance by reading it in the local news paper. They apparently sent out an email but I would not see it unless I was at work. I had worked there over 30 years. As soon as I turned 65 I was out of there. Fortunately, my husband worked at the same hospital (yes, hospitals treat their employees badly over their health) and was able to put me on his insurance for much more money than 2 individual policies.

Hope things work out to your benefit.

[FirstLight]

56. They didn't give me shit...no forms, nothing

I was the one who went to my Dr. and told him I was falling apart, he started me with 2 weeks, then extended it because it was obviously gonna take longer. (I have an auto-immune disease, the meds I was taking just stopped working and threw me out of remission into to full flare...I was basically in bed for 2 months.... Because it was the holidays, it took that long for new prescriptions and pre-authorizations before I even got the new meds, and then another month for them to start actually working)

So I was the one that filed for CA state disability, didn't know if I qualified for FMLA, no guidance there...the CA state EDD is all online, no humans available unless yu go all the way to Sacramento and wait in line like the dmv.

I kept my employer in the loop, and made sure to send emails so there was a paper trail...
Mar 7th I emailed my direct supervisor and told her the next dr appts and dates and that I was waiting for them to "release" me for work and asked her to let me know when they would get me back on the schedule.

No response

So I forwarded the email to the director, yesterday, telling her the latest and said I was eager to return. She replied that she had left me a VM (on my cell...which I can't find the VM) 2 weeks ago. So I emaild back and said I hadnt received it, gave her my landline.

She must have called when I was dropping my daughter off...I found that message at midnight last night...
I then replied via email that I needed that in writing...asked for "closure"

I will not be talking to them by phone...I'll get too emotional and forget to write stuff down.
Somehow I have to get in touch with State disability and see what's next, if they can switch me over to unemployment or something.

[FirstLight]

60. btw...been with them since 2015, and had to do short term disability once before

They fucked with me then, too... and that is all documented as well...

what really sucks the most is that thihs is a small town and it's Boys & Girls Club, so I know practically every family in town and their kids love me... they see me at the store and ask..."where are you?" we miss you, miss Lisa!!
Now those kids will be the ones who lose out

[Ms. Toad]

65. May not have enough employees for FMLA -

it kicks in at 50.

[Ms. Toad]

64. Check with an attorney -

The employee is obligated to notify the employer of the need for FMLA - I'm not sure if the employer is obligated to affirmatively bring up the matter. My daugher and I both had to obtain statements from our physcians attesting to the need for FMLA w/i 30 days of the first use - and in both instances our employers approached us.

(I am an attorney with minor professional experience with FMLA when it was first rolled out, but my recent experience as been personal - so I know the big picture, but not at the level of detail to opine as to whether you have a claim if your employer failed to bring the subject up.)

[totodeinhere]

66. It depends on the circumstances. They cannot legally fire you because you went on

disability. However, as you found out the hard way, employers can come up with creative ways to get around that. They can fire you for other reasons not related to your disability. And of course they can lay you off due to lack of work or other reasons whether you are on disability or not.

If it's SSDI you are on, I would contact the SS Administration. They should be able to advise you on your rights. If you are not satisfied with their response, then you might consider contacting a lawyer who specializes in cases like yours. If you are getting disability benefits from other sources such as employer or state provided disability insurance I would contact the administrators of whatever type of disability insurance you have.

[FirstLight]

67. Not on SSDI Federal... bu I was going to apply this year for partial

seems like every time I work over a certain # of hours I have a relapse

I guess I have to wait till Monday to consult someone at the EDD...got a couple friends who might be able to refer a lawyer too.

[haele]

87. SSDI lawyers are limited in the amount they can receive if your claim is approved.

As are a worker's comp lawyer. It's the ambulance chasers (suing for accident compensation) that can make the big money.
Speaking as someone who is permanently partially disabled from a workplace fall and whose spouse is on SSDI, the Federal Disability/Worker's Comp lawyers I know tend to be in it for the fairly steady income.
Disability isn't much compared to what you might have been able to get if you could work full time, but even in California, it can help keep a roof over your head while you can get whatever short-term work you're able to get to actually pay all the bills. You can make some small bit of money on SSDI on a monthly basis doing part-time work that can't be considered in conflict with your disability if the only work you can do is occasional and limited by your disability.
For example, Spouse occasionally makes money driving the days he can drive for a few hours when the car is clean; however, he usually can't drive more than a few days a month because a) he can't move in the way that he would have to and actually clean the car himself, and b) he can't sit behind the wheel more than four hours without serious, debilitating for days back pain - and certainly can't help people in and out or with luggage; there's no way he could make a career out of the gig economy.

Most disability lawyers will take cases on contingency; whether or not they think you have a good chance to get approved - I think the max is still 20% of the award, because you'll typically start out with a lump sum award and then the monthly payments will be yours free and clear.
And most of them know the judges and the correct doctors to go to for your case. Just make sure you check reviews.

Good luck.

Haele

[wellst0nev0ter]

70. Late capitalism is upon us

Sorry to hear the news

[ksoze]

84. You have a free lawyer - EEOC

[FirstLight]

88. Thanks...

They are on my list! Still have not gotten the "in writing" i asked for...I need to see the reasons they used for sure...

and ya, less than 50 employees, but still not kosher!