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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNYT: Bain’s TAX “DODGING” Is "NOT LEGAL," “Subject To Serious I.R.S. Challenge”
Todays NYT piece provides us with a deeper dive about complex U.S. offshore tax law(s), and how those laws apply to the Romney familys primary investments in Bain Capital. Specifically, the Times report tells us that these questionable an/or illegal tax strategies directly apply to large parts of his [Mitt Romneys] personal fortune. The story includes quite unminced commentary from tax law professors--Victor Fleischer at the University of Colorado and Gregg D. Polsky at the University of North Carolina School of Law--who indicate that Bain Capitals aggressive tax strategies are illegal and/or subject to serious I.R.S. challenge, respectively.
Getting slightly granular here, and just so were clear, were talking about questionable or illegal strategies (depending upon whose opinions you follow) with regard to the reclassification of more than $1 billion in payments to Bain Capital partners. So here are the links and excerpts from the NYT and from the experts, themselves, telling us in plain English that, when it comes to the one percents tax avoidance (legal) and/or evasion (illegal) strategies, This is how they do it.
By NICHOLAS CONFESSORE, FLOYD NORRIS and JULIE CRESWELL
New York Times
August 24, 2012
Bain private equity funds in which the Romney familys trusts are invested appear to have used an aggressive tax approach, which some tax lawyers believe is not legal, to save Bain partners more than $200 million in income taxes and more than $20 million in Medicare taxes.
Annual reports for four Bain Capital funds indicate that the funds converted $1.05 billion in accumulated fees that otherwise would have been ordinary income for Bain partners into capital gains, which are taxed at a much lower rate.
Although some tax experts have criticized the approach, the Internal Revenue Service is not known to have challenged any such arrangements.
In a blog post Thursday, Victor Fleischer, a law professor at the University of Colorado, said that there was some disagreement among lawyers, but that he believed: If challenged in court, Bain would lose. The Bain partners, in my opinion, misreported their income if they reported these converted fees as capital gain instead of ordinary income
In an article that appeared in the journal Tax Notes in 2009, Gregg D. Polsky, a tax law professor at the University of North Carolina School of Law, called the tax strategy extremely aggressive and said it was subject to serious challenge by the I.R.S
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/us/politics/documents-show-details-on-romney-family-trusts.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
The article continues on to inform us that the just-released documents: showed that some of the funds owned equity swaps, which have been used to avoid taxes that would otherwise be owed on dividends paid by American companies to foreign-based investors, like funds based in the Caymans. The intent here, according to the article: The major purpose of such swaps, a Senate committee report stated in 2008, is to enable non-U.S. persons to dodge payment of U.S. taxes on U.S. stock dividends.
Bain Capital, a group of artful dodgers, indeed.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/24/1123694/-NYT-Bain-s-tax-dodging-is-illegal-subject-to-serious-I-R-S-challenge
elleng
(131,370 posts)Norris + Confessore in particular. (Not familiar with Creswell.)
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)when you wouldn't think to make a comment like that about a NYT article because the competence of the reporters was beyond question.
I agree--an excellent article.
elleng
(131,370 posts)was UNTHINKABLE, and then there was judith miller!!!
CabCurious
(954 posts)This is a start.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)of the opposing runner? lol
History may be made here.
Segami
(14,923 posts)2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)I would think just being Ann's horse is enough of a burden to bear.
Did you see her on the Jet-ski? (Ann, not Rafalca) I mean, more power to her but with her condition, wouldn't that be darn near impossibly hard to do?
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)and she also apparently is NOT taking meds for it.. Perhaps it will progress in time, but for now, she seems to be quite lucky.
Of course, for political purposes, it's always "helpful" to be triumphant over some dreaded illness or mishap, so of course they magnify it.
It's like saying you have a bone fracture that required immediate medical attention..
Is it a broken toe from a bed leg, that is taped up & you limp a few days... or is it a double compound fracture of the tib-fib which requires surgery & extensive physical therapy?
Both are fractures..
RT_Fanatic
(224 posts)but it will never happen, unfortunately.
firehorse
(755 posts)C_U_L8R
(45,035 posts)blaming Mitt for attracting so much attention to their schemes.
And there are gonna be some crazy fines on these crooks.
First rule of being a gangster - don't draw attention to yourself.
Gets 'em every time.
Segami
(14,923 posts)They do it all the time.
get the red out
(13,468 posts)Wouldn't they be afraid it would be laid out as a partisan witch hunt? Just asking, I hope they go after them.
Segami
(14,923 posts)Having said that, the IRS could easily side-step delving into such a partisan hot potato and sight their focus on Bain Partners for possible tax breach felonies. Charging or arresting any Bain partner would be perceived as an indirect indictment of Romney.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)So?
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)ArcticFox
(1,249 posts)Pretty sure the answer is "no".
cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)they have looked into the issue.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)away from Bain/Taxes to BIRTHER....
patrice
(47,992 posts)of these investment strategies.
This is why they CAN'T "create" jobs now and perhaps ever. This is why they need TAX BREAKS to prop up their financial empires. Take a look at what LIBOR means, at least some of these 1%-ers are fucked and the ones who aren't fucked are going to be hurt by the ones who are.
tclambert
(11,087 posts)Won't happen, of course. Sigh. Maybe after he loses the election. If he wins, he will just pardon himself.
randome
(34,845 posts)That's why I see it as pointless to go directly to corporations and the uber-rich to think we can somehow shame them into behaving better.
The loopholes are there because legislation was passed to put them there. We need to close our own loopholes that allow our legislators to keep cooking the books for their corporate sponsors.
Putting more sensible limits on campaign donations -including overturning Citizens United- would be a good place to start.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)torture, stolen elections , hackable voting machines,remember tom delay he's still not in jail
Hubert Flottz
(37,726 posts)Rich people don't abide by the same laws you and I do.
DippyDem
(659 posts)so he can pardon all the Bain Partners and to commit more tax fraud for himself. Then he can resign like Nixon and get pardoned by "brown-noser" Ryan the next new president.
riverbendviewgal
(4,254 posts)This is so UnAmerican what Romney is doing.
gateley
(62,683 posts)money can buy), but it's so unAmerican. As a DUer pointed out to me, look at all the revenue we're losing and how it's adding to the deficit. Doesn't seem like this guy cares about America, yet he wants to be its commander in chief.
zonkers
(5,865 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,499 posts)I have known at that level cheats. We would not have to cut social welfare programs and could lower the deficit without raising taxes!
Conium
(119 posts)President Obama is shirking his duty if he doesn't go after these tax cheats.
patrice
(47,992 posts)Other "shoes have to drop" so that responses are most financially strategic in terms of the extent of whatever remedies are possible, to limit as much damage as possible. It would help if Congress were behind him.
gateley
(62,683 posts)They may just have taken advantage of the perfectly legal (albeit unjust) loopholes. Besides, the President of the United States isn't who would "go after" tax cheats. Not part of his " duty". He doesn't have the authority. Remember civics class?
annabanana
(52,791 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)the fan blades.
patrice
(47,992 posts)us out if he gets a chance, which he probably will anyway, because he CAN, but it will be even worse if he becomes President. This country WILL be on the auction block.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)Conium
(119 posts)If you or I did what Romney and his Bain Capitol cohorts have done, we would be UNDER the jail.
patrice
(47,992 posts)as other nations respond to WORLD financial crises?
From the NYT's piece:
"That tactic is also used to avoid taxes in some other countries and to a void restrictions on share ownership by noncitizens of some countries. In its 2010 annual report, released by Gawker, Viking Global Strategies, a hedge fund, reported using such swaps in Europe, Asia and Latin America. Romney family trusts have indirect stakes in that fund through a Goldman Sachs fund."
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)Tax evasion.
recommended!
reformist2
(9,841 posts)BootinUp
(47,211 posts)no worries then.