Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 04:23 PM Aug 2012

FBI Raids Homes of Seattle and Portland Occupy Activists

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/august132012/occupy-raids.php

The Oregonian newspaper reported that heavily-armed domestic terrorism units of the FBI have been raiding the homes of activists in Seattle and Olympia, Washington and Portland, Oregon over the last month.

The report said that at least six homes have been raided in the two states since July 10.

The FBI has described the raids as part of an ongoing violent crime investigation, linked to last year’s Occupy May Day protests, during which a number of minor acts of vandalism allegedly took place.

In one of the raids, eyewitnesses reported as many as 80 agents in body armor, wearing military fatigues, and armed with assault rifles participated in the raid.
(...)


additional coverage
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/aug2012/fbir-a13.shtml
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2012/07/25/18718309.php
135 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
FBI Raids Homes of Seattle and Portland Occupy Activists (Original Post) Why Syzygy Aug 2012 OP
And people wonder why Occupy has not had a strong presence lately Blecht Aug 2012 #1
They are creating the scenario they want to deal with. Egalitarian Thug Aug 2012 #3
Yep, that was me that started that thread. I can certainly see why with the"Shock and Awe" law RKP5637 Aug 2012 #27
Why is the dateline "Tehran" in that first link? Robb Aug 2012 #2
Not that I can find .. Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #5
Sometimes sources from repressive authoritarian foreign regimes will report credible information Zorra Aug 2012 #7
Maybe it's Occupy Tehran?..nt SidDithers Aug 2012 #29
lol . nt Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #31
Seriously. It's because the story is put out by presstv... SidDithers Aug 2012 #33
So you're saying? Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #51
Yep. If it doesn't get covered by the M$M....... socialist_n_TN Aug 2012 #125
Yeah.. Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #129
seattle times: grand jury supoenas HiPointDem Aug 2012 #72
Tehran is in Oregon PowerToThePeople Aug 2012 #90
legit story, perhaps some questionable sources. limpyhobbler Aug 2012 #4
I used Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #6
Occupy Portland and Occupy Washington have reported on these raids. sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #25
That explains a lot...nt SidDithers Aug 2012 #30
So it never happened. former9thward Aug 2012 #57
I have no idea Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #63
They don't. If they are interested in a story and not totally trusting of the source, they sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #100
I wouldn't have Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #109
It's not. Just among a few who are extremely loud about what they think ought to be censored sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #110
There are a few of socialists here...... socialist_n_TN Aug 2012 #127
seattle times HiPointDem Aug 2012 #73
No, it doesn't. Pathetic attempt to minimize news you don't like. Comrade Grumpy Aug 2012 #94
Why so Grumpy, Comrade?...nt SidDithers Aug 2012 #101
And if Mein Kamf were found in the home of "peaceful" neo-nazi activists? loyalsister Aug 2012 #10
Sorry I don't comprehend this. limpyhobbler Aug 2012 #11
Here is some of the violence re OWS. Note it is not the protesters brutalizing anyone. sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #20
yep limpyhobbler Aug 2012 #24
Wonder how much manpower is being allocated to track known suspected hate/neo-Nazi indepat Aug 2012 #38
Thank you. woo me with science Aug 2012 #87
Should the works of Adolf Hitler be part of a criminal profile? loyalsister Aug 2012 #26
Part of a profile..... limpyhobbler Aug 2012 #45
good watch Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #55
It is well known that OWS is a peaceful movement and it is documented by sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #15
Karl Marx is a social scientist. Starry Messenger Aug 2012 #19
Some teabaggers might well consider Newton on a shelf as something sinister, that's how RKP5637 Aug 2012 #32
that would be odd, but maybe not. PowerToThePeople Aug 2012 #91
Oh, I see! You're judging people based on what they read. backscatter712 Aug 2012 #59
Why am I reminded of Fahrenheit 451? sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #68
what people have behaved 'violently'? other than the police, i mean. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #74
The Occupy process was direct democracy. JDPriestly Aug 2012 #85
Your point about those who don't attend meetings is a good one, in my experience. I met occupiers patrice Aug 2012 #102
That's an interesting point you raised about the literature. limpyhobbler Aug 2012 #105
I'm wondering if there isn't something about the original incident that is making them more patrice Aug 2012 #107
good points Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #111
I love the Occupy. I actually do think there is a place in it for everyone, but we have to patrice Aug 2012 #114
The America that I grew up in, and loved, is dead. Zorra Aug 2012 #8
Yes. Well and truly dead. ananda Aug 2012 #9
Remember Kent State? Japanese Internment Camps? Martin Luther King? Which America did.... Tarheel_Dem Aug 2012 #13
Apparently you give a shit. At least enough to pile on. Comrade Grumpy Aug 2012 #96
Two words: Joe McCarthy. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2012 #97
Agreed .. Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #115
I was just thinking similar as I read this ... this stuff is what we used to learn about regimes in RKP5637 Aug 2012 #34
We hear all about propaganda in other countries, woo me with science Aug 2012 #78
I've been on their list warrprayer Aug 2012 #12
But I thought OWS was dead? Lol, apparently the message reached the targets and sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #14
no... just that some want it killed fascisthunter Aug 2012 #17
I know, if it isn't on the Corporate Media it doesn't exist! sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #23
how about doing this to hate groups instead fascisthunter Aug 2012 #16
Often I think they're afraid of the hate groups, so they go after softer targets. n/t RKP5637 Aug 2012 #35
This is not a police state. Nothing to see here. Forget...forget... Fire Walk With Me Aug 2012 #18
"eyewitnesses reported as many as 80 agents in body armor, wearing military fatigues, and armed..." SoapBox Aug 2012 #21
There is way too much legitimate dissent being treated as "domestic terrorism" jsmirman Aug 2012 #22
Something .. Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #28
"Police found books in the apartment that included one with selected writings by Karl Marx." randome Aug 2012 #36
Okay, this is totally unconstitutional. Cleita Aug 2012 #37
Did you notice.. Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #39
I think you have to live in the place where the Grand Jury convenes. Cleita Aug 2012 #40
I hope they Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #41
I don't really know as I haven't inquired into that much since there is no rush Cleita Aug 2012 #42
Occupy Portland has been reporting on these raids and the GJ. sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #60
What is also strange ... Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #62
Here's how I would imagine Ya Basta Aug 2012 #113
All the more reason Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #116
Good point Ya Basta Aug 2012 #126
"Come out to Seattle on August 30th to stand in solidarity with those resisting the grand jury" HiPointDem Aug 2012 #75
thank you Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #117
Why do you think this was about "participating in a protest"? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2012 #46
I think they cooked up some bogus vandalism here to justify their witch hunt. Cleita Aug 2012 #47
So it's just that you don't believe they had any evidence for the warrant muriel_volestrangler Aug 2012 #52
The reporting.. Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #54
It's more than a gut feeling. It's the lack of randomness of their choice of targets. Cleita Aug 2012 #56
And how do you know these particular people are in that majority? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2012 #76
Read the Constitution section I posted again. That's why it's unconstitutional. Cleita Aug 2012 #88
History Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #118
They could settle the issue by responding to questions they've been asked. sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #61
national lawyers guild is already involved. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #77
Thank you for this!!!! nt Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #119
Loud and demonstrative dissent MUST BE CRUSHED !!!!! marmar Aug 2012 #43
I just read your second link and it says they are looking for anti-government or anarchist Cleita Aug 2012 #44
Maybe they should raid Barnes & Noble. They're a flagrant distributer of anarchist literature. limpyhobbler Aug 2012 #48
ha! Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #49
Or my local library. Cleita Aug 2012 #50
It's very irritating Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #53
Exactly. I do too because you need to know what the other guy said to make an Cleita Aug 2012 #58
Having searched the Oregonian site, I found... TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #64
How is that different from the info linked up at the top of the thread? limpyhobbler Aug 2012 #65
I thought somebody mentioned arrests somewhere, but... TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #66
Pretty sure nobody did. limpyhobbler Aug 2012 #67
No one did .. Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #120
grand jury august 30th HiPointDem Aug 2012 #70
Wow, excellent. I knew about the GJ but had not heard about all these organizations sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #80
That's impressive, but do you have the names... TreasonousBastard Aug 2012 #81
Dennison williams, leah-lynn plante HiPointDem Aug 2012 #83
Scholars, Artists, and Activists Oppose Recent FBI Raids and Grand Jury Repression HiPointDem Aug 2012 #71
Thanks for this article. +1 n/t KoKo Aug 2012 #104
KoKo's back! Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #121
wait, occupy is dead. i heard it here at du, the source for all authoritative news. HiPointDem Aug 2012 #69
No, not dead. What happened on DU is that people who support this Social Justice movement sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #79
Interesting that you write this. woo me with science Aug 2012 #82
'Pro corporate'. randome Aug 2012 #84
Awww, so sorry to give short shrift, randome. woo me with science Aug 2012 #86
Hi, randome! Another day, another dollar? n/t backscatter712 Aug 2012 #89
It is a very exciting time in history and OWS, Wikileaks, the Arab Revolutions, the re-taking of sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #93
I love posts like this. woo me with science Aug 2012 #98
I haven't gotten tired of the anti-OWS movement, and I certainly haven't gone silent about it. Zalatix Aug 2012 #95
I really was referring to people, such as me, who used to regularly post OPs sabrina 1 Aug 2012 #99
Message: don't mess with the ruling class. mmonk Aug 2012 #92
Sounds like that to me...The "PTB" are going to have their say...to make us all "Center Right." KoKo Aug 2012 #103
They have the government to deliver it, woo me with science Aug 2012 #124
I cannot tell you Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #130
That's really nice of you to say. woo me with science Aug 2012 #134
Agreed. mmonk Aug 2012 #131
Oink! Webster Green Aug 2012 #106
Which is why.. Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #108
Jeez Webster Green Aug 2012 #112
History Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #122
Not at all. Webster Green Aug 2012 #123
oh okay Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #128
Heh! Webster Green Aug 2012 #132
I didn't Why Syzygy Aug 2012 #133
"violent crime"?????? dixiegrrrrl Aug 2012 #135

Blecht

(3,803 posts)
1. And people wonder why Occupy has not had a strong presence lately
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 04:27 PM
Aug 2012

Like in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021183584

This is the reason: "Shock and Awe" law enforcement is being used against us.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
3. They are creating the scenario they want to deal with.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 04:43 PM
Aug 2012

IMO occupy has fallen into the trap of believing that our enemy is basically "good", a "just doing their job" kind of thing, and are not taking the precautions required when opposing an oppressive power structure.

This is not airing grievances to the government of the people, this is and has been a war. If you aren't committed to winning it at any cost, you've already lost. They're already ruining lives and will start killing people as this goes on. Ask the people that have already been down this road, like those in El Salvador.

RKP5637

(67,108 posts)
27. Yep, that was me that started that thread. I can certainly see why with the"Shock and Awe" law
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 07:58 PM
Aug 2012

enforcement against OWS. One of the great things about the US was the right to protest to create change, but that along with a democracy seems to be fading into the past. It's quite sad and IMO is going to have/leave a huge impact on this nation.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
7. Sometimes sources from repressive authoritarian foreign regimes will report credible information
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 05:22 PM
Aug 2012

that MSM won't report on, or will report tardily, particularly in circumstances of repressive authoritarian domestic regimes perpetrating violations of human rights and the Constitution against innocent Occupy activists.

Releasing this type of information to the public can make us look too much like Iran or some other similar fascist country, such as Saudi Arabia.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
33. Seriously. It's because the story is put out by presstv...
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 08:08 PM
Aug 2012

which, as we all know, is the propaganda arm of the Iranian government.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/08/14/256121/fbi-raids-homes-of-occupy-activists/

So, we've got presstv and wsws.org, both in the same post.

Great stuff.

Sid

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
51. So you're saying?
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 09:35 PM
Aug 2012

It didn't happen? Someone's lying? What? If a foreign news source carries news it means it's false?

But we always aim to amuse, and I can see you are tickled.

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
129. Yeah..
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 01:47 AM
Aug 2012

there is a faction here that is amazing in their servitude to the spin masters.

edit: And frankly I am also AMAZED that wsws would be scoffed in these quarters.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
72. seattle times: grand jury supoenas
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:42 AM
Aug 2012

Activists subpoenaed to Thursday grand jury meeting in Seattle

Two Portland residents say they will appear before a federal grand jury in Seattle Thursday in an investigation of anarchist activity, according to a statement they released on Wednesday.

Grand jury subpoenas have also been served to activists in Olympia and Seattle who may be connected to an ongoing investigation of May Day vandalism, according to the Seattle Chapter of the National Lawyers Guild, which identifies itself as an association of progressive lawyers. In a statement, the guild urged the U.S. Attorney’s Office to drop the subpoenas out of suspicion they were being used “as a pretext for harassing political activists.”

Of primary concern to the guild has been the seizure of political literature from those subpoenaed, said guild spokesman Neil Fox.

“It concerns us any time there are law-enforcement raids that target political literature, first amendment-protected materials,” Fox said. “There’s a chilling effect these things have on people.”

The United States Attorney’s Office for the Western District of Washington has sealed all legal documents concerning the subpoenas and search warrants issued to seize evidence and provided no comment on the investigation.

Two weeks before a heavily armed, July 25 FBI raid that Dennison Williams and Leah-Lynn Plante said took place at their Portland home, the Seattle Police Department SWAT team seized evidence connected to the May Day investigation from a Judkins Park apartment of Occupy Seattle members.

In both cases, those searched told media that law-enforcement charged into their homes early in the morning and used a stun grenade, a non-lethal object that creates a disorienting loud bang and bright light.

SPD’s online blotter said detectives involved in the Seattle evidence seizure contacted four individuals in the apartment on the 1100 Block of 29th Avenue South before entering. The blotter item said SPD was successful in finding what it wanted and that the material “will be useful in the investigation.”

Williams told The Oregonian that the FBI took his laptop computer, cell phone, two thumb drives, multiple pieces of black clothing, and a T-shirt that read on the front “Multi Death Corporations.”

Wednesday night, activists unfurled banners in downtown Seattle “sporting a message about grand juries and witch hunts, and an anarchist symbol,” according the SPD blotter. A man and woman were arrested for releasing a home-made smoke bomb down on Third Avenue near Pine Street, but were later released after police interviewed them at the West Precinct.

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2012/08/activists-subpoened-to-thursday-grand-jury-meeting/

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
90. Tehran is in Oregon
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 12:56 PM
Aug 2012

I-5. I made a tin-foil hat comment that Tehran was actually in US territory, but the Media played it as half way around the world as we drove past it.

limpyhobbler

(8,244 posts)
4. legit story, perhaps some questionable sources.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 05:02 PM
Aug 2012

I've seen the same story reported in better sources.

Is possesion of "anarchist literature" really part of a criminal profile in America?
Apparently yes it is.

Similarly when apartments were raided in Chicago during the NATO summit the police reported finding books including selected works of Karl Marx. Law enforcement and the media seem to be conflating anarchism with criminality. Possibly true also with regard to marxism and communism.

It is a form of political repression.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-nato-chicago-arrests-0519-20120519,0,3262928.story

Police release some of 9 arrested in Bridgeport
No charges against those who've been let go

...

Police found books in the apartment that included one with selected writings by Karl Marx. The resident said police handcuffed him and his roommate, ignored their complaints the cuffs were too tight, repeatedly called them communists and used anti-gay slurs.


sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
25. Occupy Portland and Occupy Washington have reported on these raids.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 07:48 PM
Aug 2012

In July, airc, the FBI raided three homes, claiming to be involved in an 'ongoing investigation' and took mostly paraphernalia. I guess Occupiers don't keep weapons in their homes.

It is nothing but an attempt to intimidate. They SHOULD be investigating the brutal police officers who who nearly killed several peaceful occupiers. We are still waiting for an investigation AND the name of the cop, into the near killing of Scott Olsen. They claim that investigation 'is ongoing'.

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
63. I have no idea
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 11:02 PM
Aug 2012

where he's coming from. What kind of educated person judges information based solely on one of its sources?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
100. They don't. If they are interested in a story and not totally trusting of the source, they
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 06:59 PM
Aug 2012

verify it by looking for other sources. When all they do is jump and down over the source and have no comment on the story itself, or make no effort to verify it, as someone above said, you know where they are coming from.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
110. It's not. Just among a few who are extremely loud about what they think ought to be censored
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 10:38 PM
Aug 2012

and ought not. They are looking out for our best interests, they decide what it is safe for us to read or even see. They simply cannot allow us to see something THEY thing might be harmful to our puny brains

The vast majority of DUers read whatever they want and mostly roll their eyes at the would be protectors of our reading material, some ask them what their problem is. And others think it is a ploy to distract from an issue they do not want to see being discussed.

I have no idea what motivates people to believe they should control what a large group of Progressives, most of them pretty smart, on a forum like this ought to read, but that is because I trust people to have the intelligence to decide for themselves what they should read.

socialist_n_TN

(11,481 posts)
127. There are a few of socialists here......
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 12:43 AM
Aug 2012
And wsws is a pretty good news source IMO. But really for some people on here, if it's not in the M$M it didn't happen. Or actually they can PRETEND it didn't happen.
 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
73. seattle times
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:46 AM
Aug 2012
http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2012/08/activists-subpoened-to-thursday-grand-jury-meeting/

Two Portland residents say they will appear before a federal grand jury in Seattle Thursday...Grand jury subpoenas have also been served to activists in Olympia and Seattle who may be connected to an ongoing investigation of May Day vandalism, according to the Seattle Chapter of the National Lawyers Guild...

The United States Attorney’s Office for the Western District of Washington has sealed all legal documents concerning the subpoenas and search warrants issued to seize evidence and provided no comment on the investigation.

Two weeks before a heavily armed, July 25 FBI raid that Dennison Williams and Leah-Lynn Plante said took place at their Portland home, the Seattle Police Department SWAT team seized evidence connected to the May Day investigation from a Judkins Park apartment of Occupy Seattle members.

In both cases, those searched told media that law-enforcement charged into their homes early in the morning and used a stun grenade, a non-lethal object that creates a disorienting loud bang and bright light.

SPD’s online blotter said detectives involved in the Seattle evidence seizure contacted four individuals in the apartment on the 1100 Block of 29th Avenue South before entering. The blotter item said SPD was successful in finding what it wanted and that the material “will be useful in the investigation.”

Williams told The Oregonian that the FBI took his laptop computer, cell phone, two thumb drives, multiple pieces of black clothing, and a T-shirt that read on the front “Multi Death Corporations.”

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2012/08/activists-subpoened-to-thursday-grand-jury-meeting/
 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
94. No, it doesn't. Pathetic attempt to minimize news you don't like.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:31 PM
Aug 2012

But pretty much par for the course from old Sid.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
10. And if Mein Kamf were found in the home of "peaceful" neo-nazi activists?
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 06:15 PM
Aug 2012

What would be the response?
There have been acts of vandalism and people talk about OWS as war. What is an outsider to think?
OWS has not made any clear self identification, and it is well known that some people have behaved violently. Members talk about infiltrating police. Why not consider the possibility of infiltrators with motives to cause violence and damage?

limpyhobbler

(8,244 posts)
11. Sorry I don't comprehend this.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 06:43 PM
Aug 2012

My point is that possesion of works of Karl Marx should not be considered as part of a criminal profile. Same with possession of "anarchist literature" generally speaking.

Those are assigned reading in fact in some highschool and many college courses. I myself am in possesion of numerous such items and I am quite harmless.

What are you trying to get at? Consider rephrasing as I really did not understand your point. Are you saying that carrying a book by Karl Marx should make police suspicious of you?

Thanks.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
20. Here is some of the violence re OWS. Note it is not the protesters brutalizing anyone.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 07:06 PM
Aug 2012












Too many to count. So where is this violence the Protesters are supposed to be responsible for?





limpyhobbler

(8,244 posts)
24. yep
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 07:32 PM
Aug 2012

The police are by far the most violent element at any of these demonstrations, as those pictures show.

This story from the top post must be like the most in depth investigation in history regarding a case of vandalism. I would rather see them spend their time investigating neo-nazi groups or corporate raiders, or even investigating organized cover-ups of police brutality.



indepat

(20,899 posts)
38. Wonder how much manpower is being allocated to track known suspected hate/neo-Nazi
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 08:18 PM
Aug 2012

groups identified as hate groups by the SPLC as opposed to occupy groups? Why are 1st Amendment rights being ruthlessly suppressed at a time the Congress-critters figuratively jump through their assholes to make it easy for almost anyone to legally own assault weapons with accompanying 100-round magazines? Oh what a dichotomous web they weave.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
87. Thank you.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 06:21 AM
Aug 2012

You know that if there were evidence the other way, it would be posted in every clucking accusation against OWS. And what you have given here is just a small sample of what is available online re: the government's activities...

What transparent lies we are fed.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
26. Should the works of Adolf Hitler be part of a criminal profile?
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 07:56 PM
Aug 2012

I think the Black bloc probably started out with good intentions.

Things evolve and some of the unmeasured "this is war" responses and angry rhetoric leads to reasonable questions. Were there not OWS protestors who threatened to use molotov cocktails?

limpyhobbler

(8,244 posts)
45. Part of a profile.....
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 09:03 PM
Aug 2012

I would guess maybe yes. I'm not sure. Check with the ACLU or a lawyer. Posessing works of Hitler could be considered part of a criminal profile maybe. I don't know.

Anarchist and communist reading material in general is not in the same category as neo-nazi reading material. Neo-nazis are really dangerous characters who advocate genocide and go on shooting rampages. Anarchists are a diverse group and possesion of anarchist literature does not indicate any tendency toward violence.

Those people from the post up top allegedly commited vandalism. If the gov't is so concerned about vandalism they could take a look at any city in the country and find vandalism and graffiti everywhere. Those people are being scrutinized for their participation in political activities. It's political repression.

This video explains my understanding of anarchism.
It isn't violent but I can see why people might wish to supress these ideas.


Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
55. good watch
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 09:41 PM
Aug 2012

I first heard about anarchism from Noam! Doesn't sound like a bunch of wild people tearing up stuff....

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
15. It is well known that OWS is a peaceful movement and it is documented by
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 06:55 PM
Aug 2012

hundreds of thousands of videos that the violence begins when the Robo Cops arrive. They have nearly killed US Iraq Veterans peacefully exercising the rights they were told they were fighting for.

They have nearly killed elderly women and disabled people in wheelchairs.

They have falsely arrested thousands of peaceful protesters, a FACT now being resolved in the courtrooms where their lying police officers are either not showing up or lying under oath as case after case is dismissed.

Please show us any violence by OWS. We can show YOU multiple documentations of the violence of the police.

If you are talking about the Black Block breaking windows, they are not a part of OWS, despite attempts by the MSM to create that impression.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
19. Karl Marx is a social scientist.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 07:02 PM
Aug 2012

It would be like arresting someone for having Newton on their shelves, because they might use the gravitational theory for something sinister.

RKP5637

(67,108 posts)
32. Some teabaggers might well consider Newton on a shelf as something sinister, that's how
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 08:06 PM
Aug 2012

nuts some of these people are IMO. I view teabaggers as such throwbacks in society.

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
91. that would be odd, but maybe not.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 01:09 PM
Aug 2012

Newton was using science to try to prove the existence of God. His writings have a lot of discussions about his beliefs in God.

Disclaimer - I own Newton's writings and Karl Marx's writings.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
59. Oh, I see! You're judging people based on what they read.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 10:28 PM
Aug 2012

Since your hypothetical neo-nazis are "peaceful" (note the scare quotes), meaning they're actually not so peaceful, that would imply that they've committed crimes of violence.

Which means that your wise and benevolent police officers could bust them for those acts of violence, and not treat reading as a crime.

But by all means, continue to use authoritarian fear-based arguments - Occupy "might" commit acts of violence, therefore cops are right to commit acts of violence and violate the rights of political activists based on a flimsy pretext. That's something I'd expect to see at a site like Redstate, not on a site of progressives that should damned well be valuing civil liberties and the right to protest.

If you're going to spew this horseshit here, expect to be challenged.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
85. The Occupy process was direct democracy.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 05:55 AM
Aug 2012

The Occupiers met, discussed matters in a fair and for the most part calm matter and then voted on what they did.

Their meetings were camcorded and played for public viewing on the internet. You could watch them going on and on for hours.

Since the Occupiers were meeting outside for the most part in the open air, it is no wonder that the camping part of the movement ended when winter was in full swing.

I cannot imagine how OWS could have made its clear self identification any more clearly than to video its meetings, decision-making, discussions and operations on the internet. No other group that I know of is so open and so willing to identify itself.

Those who did not participate in that process or respect it and follow it were not part of OWS. They were infiltrating or intruding as you point out.

I did not demonstrate with OWS but I watched some of their camcorded internet programming. (Those things went on and on and on and on.) Anyone who missed those programs or who thinks that OWS failed to self-identify has only his own lack of curiosity to blame for the misinformation.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
102. Your point about those who don't attend meetings is a good one, in my experience. I met occupiers
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 08:11 PM
Aug 2012

who did not attend meetings or do any of the support work of occupying or hosting meetings, whose stated purpose was, and I quote verbatim, "We're here to fuck with the police." I have also known relatively well-to-do suburban occupiers, with health care insurance through dad's business, whose major objective appeared to be bragging rights on what happened between them and the cops, their badge-of-honor in the suburban movement to legalize cannabis.

In my universe, it's the ones with the majority of the power who have the majority of the responsibility for what happens in any situation and, of course, in the situations we are talking about here that's the cops, so whatever these other "occupiers" who were there to fuck with the police did, it's still the police who are responsible for what happens. That said, one CAN guess how things get do going between two groups when they both have an inclination to want to prove something to themselves and others.

........................

All of that said, threads like this trouble me about the occupy. The crime that was being investigated was vandalism on May Day in Seattle, not possession of literature as is being characterized here. We don't know enough about the crime to know if and/or why the literature was considered relevant and yet it is assumed here that it WAS considered relevant on content alone, as though such materials have no other physical properties that may be suitable for investigation as to how they might relate to information about the original crime.

Hell, it's obvious, cops can be bad, but this eagerness to say that they will arrest and persecute you for what you read seems to me to damage, directly or indirectly, efforts to identify and deal with bad cops justly.

limpyhobbler

(8,244 posts)
105. That's an interesting point you raised about the literature.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 08:59 PM
Aug 2012

What's a way to justify the police looking through someone's book shelf for anarchist literature.

Posession of anarchist literature in general is not any indication of criminality, is it? I can't think of any way that it should be.

I think six search warrants were executed and each of them listed anarchist literature as one of the items to be seized. It seems like the cops are using the vandalism incident as an opportunity to map out and disrupt this network of protesters.

I'm guessing the literature is significant as it demonstrates their affininty for an ideology and connects them to the group.

In America we have the right to say the government sucks, and to read books about that subject. You raised a good point and I've been back and forth on it myself. The government doesn't really deserve the benefit of the doubt. If posession of anarchist literature is relevant, they need to tell us how so. Otherwise I assume they are just abusing their authority and using the invesigation to intimidate and disrupt a network of protesters.

Here is more stuff I wrote earlier about this -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=39842


Disclaimer: this could be wrong.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
107. I'm wondering if there isn't something about the original incident that is making them more
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 09:50 PM
Aug 2012

interested in the literature than they would be otherwise, but then . . . that could just be only on tv that sort of thing happens.

Sorry, the information is so very very sketchy. The sorts of things that would be determinative probably aren't even made public, because they have to avoid prejudicing whatever case they are working on. I wonder if it was actual vandalism, or someone making something look like vandalism, because there were some convenient scapegoats around in the occupy. Just brainstorming here.

It isn't as though I don't think people who work for AGs CAN'T get a tear on about some stuff that they are personally prejudiced against. People really really do have ignorant attitudes about lots stuff, especially anything so far out of the mainstream as anarchy is. I bet SOME individuals in the AG office can be as prejudiced as anyone and I'm sure that they could easily fish for stuff too. So it's kind of 50:50, both possibilities, an actual crime investigation : bullshit, are equally probable from our perspective without enough information.

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
111. good points
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 10:57 PM
Aug 2012

You make a very sensible case for your take on this. I really appreciate you donating those ideas to the conversation.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
114. I love the Occupy. I actually do think there is a place in it for everyone, but we have to
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 11:34 PM
Aug 2012

begin by being honest with ourselves and others about who we all are, as peacefully as possible. That's an immediate revolution in and of itself.

Thanks for your comment!

Tarheel_Dem

(31,233 posts)
13. Remember Kent State? Japanese Internment Camps? Martin Luther King? Which America did....
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 06:49 PM
Aug 2012

you grow up in? Since you have no idea why they were raided, and what info the FBI is acting on, I'd say hyperbole doesn't even begin to describe that asinine statement. Is there the slightest possibility that there really is a good reason, say like they may be trying to prevent another Aurora theater massacre, or the dude that shot the guard at the Family Research Council?

I know OWS is looking for anyone to blame for their lackluster results, but the America you grew up in is not a lot different than it ever was. There are still overzealous authorities, and there are still knuckleheads who, given the chance, will cause death and destruction just for kicks.

Quite frankly, outside of places like Norquist Dog Lake, and World Socialists Website, no one really gives a shit about a defunct non-movement, who may have done more harm than good.

 

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)
96. Apparently you give a shit. At least enough to pile on.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:38 PM
Aug 2012

You really don't think we've gone further down the path of authoritarianism since the 1960s? The Fourth Amendment is in tatters, the surveillance state grows by the day, our prisons hold five times the number of prisoners (per capita) than they did in the 1960s, the war machine sucks up our money at the rate of billions a month...I think there is an argument to be made that things have gotten worse in some crucial respects.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,233 posts)
97. Two words: Joe McCarthy.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 06:13 PM
Aug 2012

p.s.: I know some of the true believers are desparate to try and breathe new life into a now defunct "movement", and maybe grabbing a headline here and there might revive the patient briefly, but make no mistake, this "movement" is on life support, and therefore can be easily dismissed by the media and anyone else who's paid attention.

You won't get your "Arab Spring" with OWS, and that's been clear for quite some time now.

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
115. Agreed ..
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 11:39 PM
Aug 2012

except .. things never really change very much. Bottom line is always people struggle against oppressive governments.

This story is a good example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs

In the early part of his political career, Debs was a member of the Democratic Party. He was elected as a Democrat to the Indiana General Assembly in 1884. After working with several smaller unions, including the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen, Debs was instrumental in the founding of the American Railway Union (ARU), the nation's first industrial union. When the ARU struck the Pullman Palace Car Company over pay cuts, President Grover Cleveland used the United States Army to break the strike. As a leader of the ARU, Debs was later imprisoned for failing to obey an injunction against the strike.

Debs educated himself about socialism in prison and emerged to launch his career as the nation's most prominent socialist in the first decades of the 20th century. He ran as the Socialist Party's candidate for the presidency in 1900, 1904, 1908, 1912, and 1920, the last time from his prison cell.

Debs was noted for his oratory, and a speech denouncing American participation in World War I led to his second arrest in 1918. He was convicted under the Espionage Act of 1917 and sentenced to a term of 10 years. President Warren G. Harding commuted his sentence in December 1921. Debs died in 1926 not long after being admitted to a sanatorium.

RKP5637

(67,108 posts)
34. I was just thinking similar as I read this ... this stuff is what we used to learn about regimes in
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 08:10 PM
Aug 2012

totalitarian countries as kids, and how great a democracy America was and the right to protest for change. I wonder just how many Americans are asleep at the wheel with all of this. Many in America I think snooze as the country they knew is slipping out from under them.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
78. We hear all about propaganda in other countries,
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:53 AM
Aug 2012

but damned if we don't have the most pervasive and sophisticated propaganda in the world right here in America, to keep people sleeping through their own impoverishment and the swift targeting of anyone who tries to wake them up.

warrprayer

(4,734 posts)
12. I've been on their list
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 06:49 PM
Aug 2012

... probably since my Jr. year in high school. Nothing like this shocks or suprises me.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
14. But I thought OWS was dead? Lol, apparently the message reached the targets and
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 06:50 PM
Aug 2012

they don't like it one bit.

Way to ensure this movement will be around for a long time.

If they weren't so busy going after OWS, maybe they could go after the real criminals, IF they weren't working for them!

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
17. no... just that some want it killed
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 06:57 PM
Aug 2012

...which is being proven by the actions of the FBI, or is it KGB?

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
23. I know, if it isn't on the Corporate Media it doesn't exist!
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 07:21 PM
Aug 2012

I am so happy about the work they are doing right now, and their successes in exposing the lying cops in the courts.

As an Egyptian Revolutionary said recently, mentioning Occupy btw, when asked since the Arab Spring is 'no longer in the public square, is it over'? His response was that when the idea behind the Arab Spring and Occupy spread across the world, it received attention because of its presence in the public arena. Now, that idea, one of justice for the people of the ME and Economic Justice as articulated by Occupy, is 'deeply embedded in the consciousness of people across the world' and 'cannot be reversed'.

I kind of like the idea that the anti-Social Movement people are so devoid of that kind of understanding of the fact that it was the IDEA that brought people to the streets. that a worldwide demand for Social Justice and Economic equality, will take many forms the first of which was occupying the public square for a while, knowing that there would be a crackdown to remove them.

To think that oppression can kill an idea like this whose time had finally come to people all over the world, and which united them, would just go away, shows a sad lack of understanding of what brought so many millions of people onto the streets worldwide in the first place.

But it's remarkable how all over the world this movement seemed to happen almost spontaneously and as the Egyptian and Tunisian Revolutionaries have said, it will take years before real change occurs and no one who supports these movements ever thought any differently. But that only means they have to keep working for those changes. No way are they going away.

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
21. "eyewitnesses reported as many as 80 agents in body armor, wearing military fatigues, and armed..."
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 07:07 PM
Aug 2012

What exactly is this costing the American taxpayers?

And, this Police Militia crap is just creepy. How about going out and getting some real criminals and RAPISTS...oh ya, the
rapists are not criminals.

jsmirman

(4,507 posts)
22. There is way too much legitimate dissent being treated as "domestic terrorism"
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 07:12 PM
Aug 2012

in this country.

"Domestic Terrorism" is a term that is way up there in the ranks of terms that have been perverted and misused to support distinctly Un-American ends.

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
28. Something ..
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 08:00 PM
Aug 2012

that some on the RW have been circulating is trying to suggest that Obama is soft on OWS. I read one little article.
I don't know how they can spin that, but then how do they do anything.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
36. "Police found books in the apartment that included one with selected writings by Karl Marx."
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 08:16 PM
Aug 2012

Just because a news report said books were found does not mean it had anything whatsoever to do with why the police were there.

Objectivity seems to be lost in this thread.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
37. Okay, this is totally unconstitutional.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 08:18 PM
Aug 2012

Fourth amendment in the Bill of Rights.

Search and arrest warrants

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


I think it's time for the ACLU to step in. Participating in a protest is not "probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation" that is good enough for a warrant to be issued for such a raid. Are they using trumped up charges instead in their witch hunt?

Yeah, c'mon all you Constitutional lawyers and tell me how I'm sooooooo wrong.

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
39. Did you notice..
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 08:34 PM
Aug 2012

no arrests were made? Only summons to a Grand Jury. How do we get on a Grand Jury?

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
40. I think you have to live in the place where the Grand Jury convenes.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 08:41 PM
Aug 2012

I got asked to participate in a Grand Jury in my county. I'm thinking about it. It starts in January but you have to serve for a year. I don't know if I'm committed for a year out of my life. In this case we would have to move to Oregon. No doubt they already have their Grand Jury in place for this year.

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
41. I hope they
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 08:43 PM
Aug 2012

are honest people. That area of the country is considered rather progressive, I think.

If you serve, how often do you have to convene? You would be good at it.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
42. I don't really know as I haven't inquired into that much since there is no rush
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 08:45 PM
Aug 2012

to join. I think though that you have to convene every time they have business they need you for. You have to be available in other words when and as much as they need you. Maybe somebody will come along that knows more.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
60. Occupy Portland has been reporting on these raids and the GJ.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 10:34 PM
Aug 2012
http://www.portlandoccupier.org/2012/08/01/targets-of-the-fbis-portland-witch-hunt-speak-out/

Dennison Williams and Leah-Lynne Plante, two citizens of Portland, have been subpoenaed to appear before a grand jury investigating anarchists in the Pacific Northwest. The grand jury is convening in Seattle, Washington, and Plante and Williams are scheduled to appear before it on Thursday, August 2nd.

Williams stated at a press conference this morning that he and Plante would be resisting the grand jury, saying, “We will not cooperate with their investigation. If we appear before the grand jury, we will not answer any questions other than our names.

If we are asked additional questions, we will invoke our First, Fourth, and Fifth Amendment rights. Under no circumstances will we talk about other people.”

On July 25th the FBI raided three Portland houses, seizing black clothing, flags, computers, and anarchist literature. FBI spokesperson Beth Anne Steel claimed the raids were part of an investigation into “ongoing violent crime,” but the seizing of paraphernalia associated with anarchists as well as the FBI’s and the US government’s long history of persecuting social movements calls this claim into question. A more detailed look at the raids was earlier reported here.


Occupy Tampa is also being harrassed, just saw some interviews on TV with Occupiers from Tampa.

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
62. What is also strange ...
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 11:00 PM
Aug 2012

is how these particular people were identified? No one at OWS was wearing name badges? Names and addresses of participants? How did that happen?

 

Ya Basta

(391 posts)
113. Here's how I would imagine
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 11:10 PM
Aug 2012

If I were an investigator using existing technology and with cameras being everywhere. I would take pictures of interests and cross reference them using facial recognition programs with the pool of photos in police booking records, driver's licenses, passports, etc. to check for identity matches.




 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
75. "Come out to Seattle on August 30th to stand in solidarity with those resisting the grand jury"
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:49 AM
Aug 2012

If you can’t make it to Seattle, have a solidarity action in your own city or town. Email us and let us know if you are holding one...

http://nopoliticalrepression.wordpress.com/

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
117. thank you
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 11:54 PM
Aug 2012

I'm nowhere near Seattle. . but I will look at this link and spread the word.

I'm not an attorney, but I've heard of something called, 'jury nullification'. It's been happening in some
trials for cannabis charges. The jury refuses to convict. Somehow it's not the same as a non guilty
finding. Seems to me that might be the more effective course. But, then how does one know
how the grand jury will proceed. All we've got are the laws as they stand.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,312 posts)
46. Why do you think this was about "participating in a protest"?
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 09:11 PM
Aug 2012

The Oregonian clearly says it was about 'part of an "ongoing violent crime" investigation'. Even the Press TV report says that; and it says it was to do with 'vandalism'.

Here's the search warrant: http://media.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/other/DWsearchwarrant.pdf

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
47. I think they cooked up some bogus vandalism here to justify their witch hunt.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 09:17 PM
Aug 2012

Why would all those warrants be against occupiers and not others who could have committed the vandalism, even the police themselves under cover? Ask yourself that? Police do that all the time to get the warrants for a raid even though they aren't really looking for evidence in those imaginary crimes. They want an excuse to target those they or their bosses don't like.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,312 posts)
52. So it's just that you don't believe they had any evidence for the warrant
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 09:36 PM
Aug 2012

You think the ACLU should get involved, because you have a gut feeling they're lying. You have nothing to do with the case, and no way of knowing what the facts or suspicions are, but your judgement is that they made it all up.

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
54. The reporting..
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 09:39 PM
Aug 2012

made a link between the raids and OWS. She's probably going by the story as it has been reported. There are at least four different links to sources on this thread.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
56. It's more than a gut feeling. It's the lack of randomness of their choice of targets.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 09:42 PM
Aug 2012

It's because I know the core group of occupiers and the majority of their followers have a strict adherence to the principles of Ghandi about peaceful protest. So I know those people at the heart of the movement would not commit vandalism or other violent crimes. That leaves outsiders doing things like this for whatever their reasons are. But you go ahead and believe what you will. However, the ACLU should investigate any time there is a reason to believe that civil rights have been violated. They, as an outside organization, to the other two involved need to get to the truth.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,312 posts)
76. And how do you know these particular people are in that majority?
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:52 AM
Aug 2012

As far as I can tell, we only know the names of the people they were looking for at one address (the 2 who have been subpoenaed to appear at a grand jury) - the people at the other 2 addresses had already moved on. I wouldn't expect targets of warrants to be 'random' (if they were, then that would be a 4th amendment issue); but the authorities had some information that made them (and a judge) think there was relevant material to be found at the addresses (and the material is not just 'anarchist' reading material; it includes clothing, flares, paint and computers; it sounds like they're looking for evidence of an organised bit of painting of government property that happened). The information sounds as if it was a bit out of date, since 2 lots of people had already left.

I still can't see how you know this was 'totally unconstitutional'.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
88. Read the Constitution section I posted again. That's why it's unconstitutional.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 12:44 PM
Aug 2012

Where ever you live in the UK you seem to have no idea how our authorities conduct witch hunts and twist the law to make what they do legal and how our media can't seem to get their facts straight when they report things. That's why the ACLU is important as an interested third party to keep all parties involved honest. This country has a history of treating protest movements as criminal even though they aren't. Do some reading about the union and suffrage movements at the turn of the century as well as the protests in the VietNam era.

Search and seizure, getting our doors bashed down while police trash everything in your house, has always left a bad taste in our mouths ever since the British did it to us when we were a colony.

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
118. History
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 12:00 AM
Aug 2012
http://www.cato.org/raidmap/ (I know Cato is a bad guy here. This link is for the content at the link only.)

They make mistakes far more often than people might think.
My DIL is also native to another country, and she doesn't get our legal issues, even though she thinks she does.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
61. They could settle the issue by responding to questions they've been asked.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 10:36 PM
Aug 2012

What violence are they investigating? Police violence? That's the only violence I recall where people were actually nearly killed by the Police at Occupy protests. If they are investigating violence, I would expect them to start with violence against human beings. If that is the case, then it's way past time.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
77. national lawyers guild is already involved.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:53 AM
Aug 2012

Last edited Fri Aug 24, 2012, 05:25 AM - Edit history (1)

DENNISON WILLIAMS was in bed when the agents banged on his front door shouting, "FBI!" Next he heard a boom and saw the light of a flash grenade.



"I'm upstairs and unarmed!" he shouted. Agents carrying assault rifles handcuffed him while over a dozen officers from the Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) searched his house, seizing his phone, computer, and black clothes. As they left, Williams was issued a subpoena to appear in front of a grand jury in Seattle on Thursday, August 2.

Williams' house on NE 8th and Buffalo was one of three searched in Portland last Wednesday, July 25, as part of a coordinated JTTF raid targeting lefty political activists in Washington and Oregon. Officers issued grand jury subpoenas to at least five people that morning in Portland, Seattle, and Olympia.

The FBI is mum about what alleged crimes prompted the bi-state searches and subpoenas; the search warrants are sealed, and this week's grand jury hearing itself isn't public. But Williams provided the Mercury with a redacted copy of the search warrant for his home, which shows the agents were looking for numerous items (including "anti-government or anarchist literature," black clothing, and flags) that could be related to the federal crimes of destruction of government property and interstate travel with intent to riot.

http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/fear-of-a-black-bloc-planet/Content?oid=6619511

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
44. I just read your second link and it says they are looking for anti-government or anarchist
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 08:54 PM
Aug 2012

literature and material. Cheez if that's all they are looking for all they have to do is go to the websites for the Montana Militia, or any White Supremacist websites or Storm Front for that matter. There's loads and loads of anti-government shit at those places and in their military compounds.

I would post links but the administrators don't like it.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
50. Or my local library.
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 09:35 PM
Aug 2012

I have found copies of both Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" and Karl Marx's "Das Kapital" on the shelves there.

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
53. It's very irritating
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 09:38 PM
Aug 2012

to have someone assume because someone else reads a story, talks about a story, or reads a book/article/newsletter that someone AGREES with what they read! That is so far from logic ... I read lots of stuff I don't agree with. How is a person supposed to determine what they think about subjects if they never read anything??! ! . stunning

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
58. Exactly. I do too because you need to know what the other guy said to make an
Thu Aug 23, 2012, 09:45 PM
Aug 2012

informed opinion. I grew up a Catholic and had to go to Catholic school and we had a list of condemned books we weren't supposed to read. Many of them were classics of literature. You can be sure they were the first books I read when I got a chance.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
64. Having searched the Oregonian site, I found...
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 01:16 AM
Aug 2012

an article from 7/26 saying three homes were searched, with warrants, and there were no arrests.



limpyhobbler

(8,244 posts)
65. How is that different from the info linked up at the top of the thread?
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:07 AM
Aug 2012

Did somebody claim there had been arrests?

Just asking.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
66. I thought somebody mentioned arrests somewhere, but...
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:15 AM
Aug 2012

I'm not going to look for it because quite frankly I don't think this is important enough to spend any more time on than I have already.

Carry on.

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
120. No one did ..
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 12:06 AM
Aug 2012

I have, myself, typed many times .. subpoenas were issued, no one was arrested.

Everyone here is only trying to talk about what really happened. No one is trying to make up stuff.
You'll need to look elsewhere if your intent is to straighten out someone.

Thank you for dropping by.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
70. grand jury august 30th
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:36 AM
Aug 2012

Over 350 Organizations Stand in Solidarity with the PNW Grand Jury Resistors
Posted on August 19, 2012

Over 350 organizations from across the United States have signed the solidarity statement in support of those in the Pacific Northwest currently resisting a grand jury called for August 30th. If your organizations has not signed on yet, email us at [email protected] with your signature and we will add you to the statement. Check back for updates on actions and how you can support grand jury resistance as we get closer to August 30th.

The following is a statement expressing solidarity with the current targets of FBI repression:

On Wednesday July 25th, the FBI conducted a series of coordinated raids against activists in Portland, Olympia, and Seattle. They subpoenaed several people to a special federal grand jury, and seized computers, black clothing and anarchist literature. This comes after similar raids in Seattle in July and earlier raids of squats in Portland.

Though the FBI has said that the raids are part of a violent crime investigation, the truth is that the federal authorities are conducting a political witch-hunt against anarchists and others working toward a more just, free, and equal society. The warrants served specifically listed anarchist literature as evidence to be seized, pointing to the fact that the FBI and police are targeting this group of people because of their political ideas. Pure and simple, these raids and the grand jury hearings are being used to intimidate people whose politics oppose the state’s agenda. During a time of growing economic and ecological crises that are broadly affecting people across the world, it is an attempt to push back any movement towards creating a world that is humane, one that meets every person’s needs rather than serving only the interests of the rich.

This attack does not occur in a vacuum. Around the country and around the world, people have been rising up and resisting an economic system that puts the endless pursuit of profit ahead of the basic needs of humanity and the Earth. From the Arab Spring to the Occupy movement to now Anaheim, people are taking to the streets. In each of these cases, the state has responded with brutal political repression. This is not a coincidence. It is a long-term strategy by state agencies to stop legitimate political challenges to a status quo that exploits most of the world’s people.

We, the undersigned, condemn this and all other political repression. While we may have differences in ideology or chose to use different tactics, we understand that we are in a shared struggle to create a just, free, and liberated world, and that we can only do this if we stand together. We will not let scare tactics or smear campaigns divide us, intimidate us, or stop us from organizing and working for a better world.

No more witch-hunts! An injury to one is an injury to all.

Signed:
Committee Against Political Repression
Freedom Archives
Sacramento Prisoner Support
Committee to Stop FBI Repression
Critical Resistance
Stop the Injunctions Coalition
National Jericho Movement for Political Prisoners and Prisoners of War
Civil Liberties Defense Center
We Are Oregon
Portland Jobs with Justice
Rose City Cop Watch
Bayan-USA Pacific Northwest Region
Portland Central America Solidarity Committee (PCASC)
Red Spark (Kasama)
Earth First! Journal collective
Repeal Coalition
1st of May Anarchist Alliance
Black Unity Movement
The Institute for Anarchist Studies
Connect the Dots
Oregon Jericho
Parasol Climate Collective
Portland Anarchist Black Cross
Right to Survive
Right to Dream 2
Rosehips Medic Collective
Communities United Against Police Brutality
The Radical Anti-Capitalist Caucus, of Occupy Portland
Students on Strike Organizing Committee
Autonomous Workers’ Group
Occupy Oakland Anti Repression Committee
Oakland Occupy Patriarchy
Oakland Occupy Legal
East Bay Solidarity Network
Portland Animal Defense League
Cascadians Against War
PDX Bike Swarm
Northbay Movement for a Democratic Society
Solano Peace and Justice Coalition
Solano Peace and Freedom Party
Northbay Uprising Radio Collective
MN Anti-War Committee
Peoples’ Action for Rights and Community
Redwood Curtain CopWatch
Occupy Eureka
Arizona Prison Watch
All Power to the Positive podcast
Justice for Palestinians, San Jose, CA
OccupyLV
Culture of Resistance
Family & Friends of Daniel McGowan
Blazing Arrow Organization
Portland International Socialist Organization
Anti-Racist Action-LA/People Against Racist Terror
The Portland World Citizens’ United Front
The Wild Poppies Collective
Everglades Earth First!
The Center For A Stateless Society
Black Orchid Collective
Hella503 Collective
Portland Rising Tide
Laughing Horse Book and Film Collective
Occupy 4 Prisoners, Oakland
Night Heron Grassroots Activist Center
Palm Beach County Environmental Coalition
New York Taskforce for Political Prisoners
The North American Anarchist Studies Network
submedia.tv
Cleveland 4 Support Group
Freedom Socialist Party
Socialist Action
Peace & Justice Center of Sonoma County
Justice for Randy L. Dixon Rivera & Family
Peace Resource Center
Occupy Washington DC
Occupy Peace House DC
BDS LA for Justice in Palestine
The American Iranian Friendship Committee
NYC Jericho Movement
Leonard Peltier Defense Offense Committee, NYC Chapter
New Direction Fest
Socialist Viewpoint Magazine
Bay Area United Against War Newsletter
Al-Nakba Awareness Project
Social Democrats
USA-Socialist Party, USA
The Young Social Democrats-Young Peoples’ Socialist League
Alliance for Global Justice
Nicaragua Network
Campaign for Labor Rights
New York City Labor Against the War
Labor for Palestine
Libertalia Autonomous Space
Community Futures Collective
The International Coalition to Free the Angola 3
Workers World Party
International Action Center
East Bay Saturday Dialogues
Soa Watch South Florida
Socialist Viewpoint
#OPDX
WORKERS ACTION
Occupy Kalamazoo
Good Morning Revolution
Wandering Llama Press
Berkeley Fellowship of Unitarian Universalists Social Justice Committee
Occupy Denver
Citizens Against Corruption
Mutant Legal Collective NYC
The Northampton (MA) Committee to Stop the Wars
South Chicago ABC Zine Distro
Defending Dissent Foundation
Occupy Seattle Street Medics
Vashon Women In Black
Veterans For Peace, Linus Pauling Chapter 132
Organic Consumers Association
World Can’t Wait
Internationalist Prison Books Collective
Collective A-GoGo
Alliance of the Libertarian Left of New England
Earth First! Prisoner Support Project
The Mineapolis Autonomous Radical Space (MARS) Collective
Wensday Media Distro
The Alice Committee
Liberty Tree Foundation
Grand Jury Resistance Project
Alliance for Peace and Justice of Western Massachusetts
Welfare Rights Committee (Mpls/St. Paul, MN)
Socialist Organizer
Occupy LCC (Lane Community College)
Phoenix Class War Council
The Wingnut Anarchist Collective
Richmond Copwatch
the ART lab
The People’s Tribunal (SF Bay Area)
San Jose Peace & Justice Center
Citizens for Legitimate Government
New York Free Mumia Abu-Jamal Coalition
Unite Left Review
Anarchy-1 radio
Wisconsin Bail Out The People Movement
Queers Without Borders
Olympia Coalition for a Fair Budget
Charm City Anarchist Black Cross
Blue Heron Infoshop
Portland Books to Prisoners
Moveon Desert Council
Progressive Democrats Of America Desert Chapter
Ocv
Occupy Colorado Springs
Support Vegans in the Prison System
Denver Anarchist Black Cross
Twin Cities IWW General Defense Committee Local 14
Decolonize PDX
Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom
Animal Defense League of Salt Lake City
Seattle Communist Study Group
Our World In Depth
Grupo El Heraldo
The Portland Solidarity Network
Portland IWW
Workers Solidarity Alliance
Occupy New Haven
NYC Anarchist Black Cross
Pilipino Association of Workers and Immigrants
CODEPINK LI, Women for Peace
News and Letters Committees
MN Peace Action Coalition
Progressive Global Commons
Communities For Justice And Peace
Peace Action of San Mateo County
Fighting Union Caucus-Iowa
No Biomass Burn (Washington State)
Girl Army Self Defense
People of Faith CT
The Phoenix Commune
Modesto Anarcho Crew
May 1st Coalition 4 Worker & Immigrant Rights
occupy syracuse
Oakland Occubus Committee
Oakland Assembly of Unemployed
NATO 5 Support Committee
South Bay Committee Against Political Repression
CEO Pipe Organs/Golden Ponds Farm
our developing world
American Muslims for Palestine
People’s Community Medics
Responsible Marijuana Project
Austin Prisoner Support
CT-ABC
Teamster Defense Guard
Students United for Palestinian Equal Rights
Prison Activist Resource Center
Cascadia Earth First
The Purple Thistle Centre
SOAW-LA
Burning Books
The MOVE Organization
Olympia Movement for Justice and Peace
Freedom Road Socialist Organization
Chicago Committee Against Political Repression
International Action Center
Olympia Students for a Democratic Society
Seattle Young People’s Project
Seattle Copwatch
Bayou La Rose
October 22 Coalition To Stop Police Brutality – Seattle Affiliate
AK Press
Third coast conspiracy
opdxlive.org- the occupy portland livestream team
Common Struggle Libertarian Communist Federation
National Coalition to Protect Civil Freedoms
International Action Center Seattle
Austin People’s Legal Collective
Occupy Together
Steampunk Magazine
Combustion Books
Berkeley Copwatch
Edmonton anarchist bookfair collective
No Nukes Action Committee
The Holdout
the 4th CD/St. Paul Green Party
Food For Thought Cafe
Western Washington Fellowship of Reconciliation (WWFOR)
Peacemakers of Schoharie County, New York
Kaua`i Alliance for Peace and Social Justice
Seattle United Against FBI Repression
International Solidarity Movement – Northern California
Free Palestine Movement
Action for the Earth
The Mike Cannon Show
The Red & Black Collective
The Crooked Bough blog
Northern Virginians for Peace and Justice
Portland State University Students for Unity
The Flying Brick Library
GLITUR, the Grand Legion of Incendiary and Tenacious Unicorn Revolutionaries
Radical Women
Resistance PHL
Wild Rose Collective
Winnipeg Copwatch
Philly Stands Up! Collective
Seattle chapter of the International Socialist Organization
68’ anarchist collective
#MicCheckWallS
Portland chapter of Anti-Racist Action
Occupy Corvallis
The JED Collective, Greene Maine
Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism — Corvallis Chapter
Food Fight! Grocery
Red Bird Prison Abolition
Women Against Military Madness
Snitch Watch
AFFECT
Four Star Anarchist Organization
Occupy Rogers Park
The Richmond General Membership Branch of the Industrial Workers of the World
Left Bank Books
Last Word Books & Press
Last Earth Distro
Earthlight Books
Central Texas ABC
A New World In Our Hearts
TRANSCENDERARTS
FIST! (Feminists In Solidarity Together)

http://nopoliticalrepression.wordpress.com/2012/08/19/over-350-organizations-stand-in-solidarity-with-the-pnw-grand-jury-resistors/

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
80. Wow, excellent. I knew about the GJ but had not heard about all these organizations
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 05:13 AM
Aug 2012

supporting them.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
81. That's impressive, but do you have the names...
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 05:27 AM
Aug 2012

of those subpoena'd? And why they were? From what I hear, a grand jury subpoena is usually as a witness, and not something fearful, although it could become fearful.

Whoa, look what I found...

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2012/08/two_portland_residents_facing.html

Two Portland residents whose homes were the target of FBI raids last week have been subpoenaed to appear on Thursday before a federal grand jury in Seattle.

Attorneys from the National Lawyers Guild in Seattle suspect the subpoenas are related to an ongoing FBI investigation into May Day vandalism in Seattle, including damage to a federal courthouse there.

<...>

But federal court records indicate authorities are looking into an "organized 'black block' of anarchists" who marched all in black, carried red flags on sticks and sticks with screws or bolts on the ends and broke out windows of the William Kenzo Nakamura U.S. Courthouse in Seattle on May Day.

At the federal court building, glass doors near an entrance were shattered with rocks. Protesters then threw or shot a smoke bomb toward the lobby, but the device hit the one door that didn't break and started a small blaze that quickly burned itself out.


So, is this really a conspiracy to shut down free speech, or just normal cop work?

BTW, the witnesses are yelling about how they'll never talk. If they're asked about a smoke bomb in a courthouse, why not?

If they didn't do it, I certainly hope they are free to go at the earliest moment, but if they were involved-- who justifies that sort of thing now?


 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
83. Dennison williams, leah-lynn plante
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 05:39 AM
Aug 2012

Dennison Williams was in bed at his house on NE 8th Avenue on Wednesday morning when he heard a bang and someone shout, "FBI!" Then came a loud crash, which turned out to be agents breaking down his front door, and Williams heard a bang and a saw a flash of light—the agents throwing flash grenades. Williams started yelling from his bed that he was upstairs and unarmed.

According to Williams, FBI officers entered his room with assault rifles and kept them aimed at him while they handcuffed him. They put him in a chair for about 30 minutes while they searched his house. Williams says there were about 15 FBI officers in the house, plus one Portland police officer on the street outside. According to the property receipt Williams received from the officers, the feds seized several items, including his computer, phone, hard-drive, two thumb drives, and various clothes (including black jeans, black t-shirt, and a black bandana). They then served him a subpoena to appear at a grand jury in Seattle next Thursday, August 2nd.

Williams is not sure exactly what the grand jury is meeting about, but that likely they want to ask him about other people. The FBI has said only that the raids are part of an ongoing "violent crime" investigation.

"It's related to political opposition, it's related to political dissent," says Williams. "They're trying to create a wedge within people who are resistors... They're specifically pursuing anarchists."

The FBI search warrant states that they are looking to seize items which may be evidence regarding the crimes of conspiracy to destroy government property, interstate travel with intent to riot, and conspiracy to travel interstate with intent to riot. Those items include: Clothing and related items work during commission of offenses; paint; sticks and flags similar to those used or carried during the commission of the offenses, and material for making flags; anti-government or anarchist literature, documentation or communications related to the offenses, flares, computers or electronic storage media of any kind.

Williams was not sure how many people were served subpoenas, but thinks it is somewhere around seven people, and says he "will not cooperate" with the grand jury. Anyone who refuses to testify when subpoenaed can potentially face jail time.




http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1191027



 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
71. Scholars, Artists, and Activists Oppose Recent FBI Raids and Grand Jury Repression
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:39 AM
Aug 2012

Posted on August 21, 2012

We’ve asked a series of scholars and movement veterans what they think about the recent FBI raids, the grand jury subpoenas, and the refusal to testify. We’ll be running their responses here over the next week or so. We begin today with Noam Chomsky:

Noam Chomsky: “Unacceptable Violations of Elementary Civil Rights”


From the reports so far available, the FBI raids appear to be unacceptable violations of elementary civil rights. And insofar as the Grand Jury is being convened as a device of intimidation, refusal to cooperate with it would be quite justified in my opinion.

Noam Chomsky, emeritus professor of linguistics and philosophy at MIT, is among the most important scholars in his field. But he is yet more famous for his trenchant criticisms of U.S foreign policy and the media’s subservience to the powerful.

http://nopoliticalrepression.wordpress.com/2012/08/19/over-350-organizations-stand-in-solidarity-with-the-pnw-grand-jury-resistors/
 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
69. wait, occupy is dead. i heard it here at du, the source for all authoritative news.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:31 AM
Aug 2012

80 fucking agents. for 'minor acts of vandalism'.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
79. No, not dead. What happened on DU is that people who support this Social Justice movement
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 05:08 AM
Aug 2012

and used to post news about it, got tired of the small, anti-OWS contingency here, it's best to stick to where OWS is most active, in the Social Media, on the hundreds of OWS News Sites rather than waste time and energy dealing with the time-consuming, repetitive, boring anti Social Justice commenters here.

I think movements like OWS and the Arab Revolutions, still ongoing, are better suited to the Social Media than to forums like this. Eg, yesterday, Occupythepolice held a Social Media conference and, as far as I know, for the first time, attracted police officers to join in the discussion. Up to now, the police have resisted, publicly at least, any invitations to join the movement.

I use the social media for OWS, which reaches across the world and see no point in posting here as I used to. The talking points are always the same old repetitive garbage, as talking points usually are, it simply became boring and non-productive.

OWS is active around the world, they are every day, doing what Congress should be doing. There is so much news every day it would require devoting too much time to bring it here anyhow. Now, I mostly ignore the group who appear in every OWS thread that is posted, and spend that time supporting those who are actually out there working for a better world rather than sitting around bashing those who are accomplishing things.

Let them think it is dead, we can be part of the problem or part of the solution. OWS is part of the solution and will be here for a very long time, as it will take a very long time to undo the damage that has been done to every country afflicted with the neo-liberal policies that have gone pretty much unchallenged, until now.

Edited to add in response to your comment, thanks to that small group of anti-OWS and anti-Wikileaks, and probably by now, anti-Arab Revolutions considering the new governments, in Tunisia, Egypt and of course they are supported by the South American democracies, are not going to take being interfered with by the Western powers, DU formerly a great place to find news of all these stories, has become the last place to find news of OWS.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
82. Interesting that you write this.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 05:36 AM
Aug 2012

Someone suggested to me a while back that that the real purpose of all the persistent and repetitive pro-corporate arguing on Democratic boards is not to change anyone's opinions, but rather to "corral" passionate advocates of progressive causes on sites where most people already agree with them anyway - i.e, to keep them busy in venues where their words really won't have much effect.

I find myself more active elsewhere these days, as well.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
86. Awww, so sorry to give short shrift, randome.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 06:15 AM
Aug 2012

I can understand how that shorthand might ruffle some feathers and trigger mute emoticon retaliation.

I really should have written "Third Way, right-wing, neocon, pro-police state, and pro-corporate tax and economic policy"....but it just *takes* so darned long!

NICE example of vapidly extending the thread past the important point, though!






sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
93. It is a very exciting time in history and OWS, Wikileaks, the Arab Revolutions, the re-taking of
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 04:17 PM
Aug 2012

of their sovereignty by the Latiin American nations and the joining together of all these movements worldwide, have already brought about unprecedented changes and will go down in history. The corporate entities and their supporters oppose all these changes and movements. No matter how hard they try to discredit them, it really is too late.

The near collapse of European nations under the same policies they finally brought to first world nations is keeping them busy, along with their brutal colonial wars. Try as they do, it's hard to fight the rising global tide against those failed, deadly policies. Now it is not just the Corporations that are Global, the people are going Global.

I think that is why they are flailing so desperately, eg, the British Govt's outrageous reaction to Ecuador's perfectly legal decision last week regarding asylum for Julian Assange. They probably in their arrogance, never expected the backlash, and from nations they view as inferior. Maybe it will wake them up to the fact that while they remain lost in the past still clinging to old, failed policies, the world is moving on into the future. Made better by all these Social Justice movements which combined can begin the process of creating a more just world.

You may be right regarding the attempt to corral people and bog them down in mindless arguments over trivia. Probably the best way to foil that is to ignore it.


woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
98. I love posts like this.
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 06:32 PM
Aug 2012

It is sometimes easy to lose perspective, immersed in the Matrix of MSM and internet propaganda, and the discouraging actions coming out of our own government.

I am always grateful for the reminders that this is a global awakening, and that it is proceeding apace.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
99. I really was referring to people, such as me, who used to regularly post OPs
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 06:55 PM
Aug 2012

about OWS, not doing so for a while now. The action regarding OWS, the Arab Revolutions and other Social Justice Movements is on the social media. Wasting time on negative energy where there is such an anti-Social Movement atmosphere, for me is not worth the work involved to keep reporting on these events. I have not gone silent in terms of correcting the misinformation I so much of here. But I've noticed that most of those like me, who used to provide information, have moved on. As a result I suppose, the anti-Social Movement contingency thinks that means nothing is happening. But I prefer to put the energy where it can accomplish something. As a result, I don't think anyone looking for news of OWS thinks of DU as a place to find it. They have literally hundreds of other places to go for that.

Sorry for not being clear.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
103. Sounds like that to me...The "PTB" are going to have their say...to make us all "Center Right."
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 08:19 PM
Aug 2012

in whichever way they can do it....and they are good at it.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
124. They have the government to deliver it,
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 12:31 AM
Aug 2012

and we are hearing it disturbingly frequently these days.

Assange, Occupy, the police state, assaults on the 4th Amendment...

We are in serious, serious trouble in this country...


Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
130. I cannot tell you
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 01:50 AM
Aug 2012

how much I love seeing you post like this. True, I had you on ignore on the old DU. So I don't know when I may have started agreeing with you. But I do love to read your posts in this thread. Your voice is valuable.

Webster Green

(13,905 posts)
106. Oink!
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 09:22 PM
Aug 2012

This isn't anything new. Has there been a time when this shit wasn't happening in this country? I don't think so.

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
122. History
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 12:15 AM
Aug 2012

IS disgustingly repetitive, agreed. The title of your post was "Oink!". That kind of set the tone and, yeah, gave me the idea that you might think this is a porker of a thread.

Webster Green

(13,905 posts)
132. Heh!
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 01:58 PM
Aug 2012

My only problem is nobody ever notices when I use the line "no intense offended". It makes no sense at all. It's an Archie Bunker mangling of words, which is perhaps the funniest line I ever saw him say.

Why Syzygy

(18,928 posts)
133. I didn't
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 03:34 PM
Aug 2012

catch it the first time I read it. When I came back to reply again, I did see it, and thought it very clever

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
135. "violent crime"??????
Sat Aug 25, 2012, 07:42 PM
Aug 2012

Well, we all know this is NOT the way to get people to shut up about their rights...it's a pattern of attempted repression that has been predictably played out for years and years against protests.
But these tactics were usually reserved for Waco, Texas or Ruby Ridge or the Black Panthers.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»FBI Raids Homes of Seattl...