'This primary is going to be a choice between socialism and a more just form of capitalism.'

[applegrove]

The Point - Chris Ciĺlizza - CNN Email

"SNIP....

"I will tell you I am not a democratic socialist," California Sen. Kamala Harris said during a campaign stop in New Hampshire on Monday. And in a CNN town hall on Monday night, another Democrat, Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar, was careful to make her skepticism of things like "Medicare for All" and the "Green New Deal" very clear.

What you see in all of that is a clear line being drawn between Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, who announced his presidential bid formally on Tuesday, and the looming figure of New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez on one side, and the likes of Klobuchar and, assuming he runs, former Vice President Joe Biden on the other.

All the other candidates in the race fall somewhere along that spectrum -- roughly like this:

Sanders   Warren   Gabbard   Castro   Gillibrand   Booker   Harris   Klobuchar   Biden
         
From Booker leftward, the candidates are, broadly speaking, in favor of the "Green New Deal" and "Medicare for All." Both those programs would fundamentally reshape our society -- whether by handing the government control of our health care or overhauling our economic and environmental realities with a big cash infusion via taxing the very wealthy -- in ways that would make the federal government more and more powerful. From Harris rightward, there is a healthy skepticism of the practicality (and political savvy) of backing those massive government programs.

To be clear: There is not a massive amount of policy difference between Sanders and Biden. And you are splitting hairs on hairs when trying to determine whether Gillibrand or Booker is closer to the democratic socialist view of the world.

Some of these differences are in tone and emphasis. For example, Klobuchar calls the "Green New Deal" something to aspire to while others to her left on my spectrum see it as the sort of thing that should be put front and center for Democrats right now. Still, that's a difference!

....SNIP"

[stonecutter357]

1. I am not a democratic socialist .

[Eliot Rosewater]

2. I am, but I am also a pragmatist who does not promote democratic socialism

so I can get credit for it and be historically important.

[KPN]

15. 1!

[leftstreet]

3. "a more just form of capitalism" LOL n/t

[applegrove]

10. So you don't get paid for doing a job? Or own property or goods? Or shop?

Enjoy good technology?

[applegrove]

13. Nope. I'm Canadian we like the mixed market economy. I vote left.

I like social programs for when the markets fail to deliver something fairly.

[guillaumeb]

11. What is needed is tightly regulated capitalism.

Not the Bezos/Walmart model of plantation capitalism.

[pangaia]

7. Too many mistakes... (not yuo Applegrove) :))

'This primary is going to be a choice between socialism and a more just form of capitalism.'

Bull... Does this guy have any idea what socialism is??



whether by handing the government control of our health care.

[guillaumeb]

8. The phrase "something to aspire to"

generally translates into "I have no interest in actually doing anything like this"?

The GOP has been dragging the "center" to the right for 40 years.

[Blue_Tires]

9. All I'll say is I hope to God that Kamala Harris has the BEST

IT/e-mail server security that money can buy and the passwords are changed frequently... Because you-know-who is coming.

[BluegrassDem]

14. I'm not a socialist

I am progressive though. A $15/hr minimum wage is great, but I will accept a $10.50/hr minimum wage if that's gets the votes in Congress. I'm not an all or nothing person. Some extra money is better than nothing at all. I think our nominee should share this view.

[comradebillyboy]

16. I'll pass on socialism. Good social services do not equal socialism.

[pecosbob]

17. I reject labels...particularly those coined by the right.

Shoot down ideas like a living wage or MFA or a Green New Deal before the primaries to try to and capture votes from Trumpers that will never materialize and I am less likely to vote for you in the primary. Just my two cents and that's about all it's worth.

[loyalsister]

21. What has been labelled socialism is, in fact, a more just form of capitalism

I would rather see Democrats clarify that rather than contribute to the GOP talking points used to demonize Democrats who support things like roads, schools, a safety net for those who struggle, and, consumer protection over protection of corporate profits.

[Adrahil]

18. Wait... what?

Are folks thinking that there will be some kind "Democratic Socialism" that completely deconstructs capitalism?

ROFL. Ciĺlizza is, as usual, completely full of shit.

[wiggs]

23. agree. these are rw talking points. Not good analysis. nt

[Horizens]

19. Socialist/Socialism are Losers

The Dems and every candidate need to drop the word(s) socialist/socialism from their vocabulary.

[loyalsister]

22. and give in to the mythology of rugged individualism, dammit

Enabling the ridiculous narrative that dismisses the contributions government entities, initiaves, and funding of infrastructure as essential to the success of us all works for the GOP and elitists who would rather the little people die off, but it is does nothing to help ordinary people and actually dismisses their contributions and value as human beings.

[Garrett78]

20. Bernie isn't a socialist either. The Nordic Model is not an example of socialism.

[brush]

24. I disagree that the freshman Rep. AOC looms large in our primary.

Kamala Hairris wa so astute in saying that she wasn't a socialist but a capitalist, as we live in a capitalist society with many social programs that provide services for people.

Our form of capitalism can certainly be regulated, and should be, away from dog-ear-dog capitalism that the repugs try to drag us into. We should not stand for it and Sem. Harris clearly gets that.

Let's be real, it may be fashionable right now to say "I'm a democratic socialist" but what does that even mean? Are we actually going to start transforming our society to "to each according to their ability to each according to their needs" or to that other socialist gem catch phrase, "he who does not work, neither shall he eat"?

No, we're not going to do that as capitalism is too entrenched in out society to be transformed by a new Rep., not yet two whole months on the job, who says she's a socialist and energetically promotes a "green
new deal." Not going to happen and the Democratic Party is wise to understand, as has been done with the actual "New Deal" and the "Great Society" programs from previous Dem enovations, we're going to take and encorporate ideas from the "Green New Deal" into our platform and into our existing form of regulated capitalism and vigorously wrestle with the repugs on the other side of the aisle who will try to shut down our every effort to enact any program that will help people and not the rich who favor unfettered capitalism.

It is thus, th ebb and flow of the US, we push, they try to pull us back. The waging of the 2020 campaign is not going hinge on that but the adaptation of new pro-people programs will most likely follow history in the way they are woven into society (see the New Deal and Great Society ideas now existing).

And they are the same great programs benefitting millions for decades that the repugs have been trying to repeal for the same decades.

[janmichael3]

25. Capitalist lapdogs...nt