General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMan, Morning Joe is going in on AOC this morning over the Amazon pullout.
The entire panel is calling her out. Their commentary is pathetic and woefully ignorant.
--On Edit--
Also, they didn't mention how Amazon did not pay a cent in taxes.
Renew Deal
(81,923 posts)UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)whathehell
(29,124 posts)and problems with NY Labor is one of the things that killed this deal.
* You will rarely, if EVER hear any of their lineup, however progressive, mention labor unions and THAT is no accident.
SKKY
(11,847 posts)...pulling out. Their show is starting to piss me off.
brooklynite
(95,164 posts)SKKY
(11,847 posts)...they might be forgiven if they get the sense she single-handedly led the push. They need a scapegoat, and none of the people who really killed the deal are national names, so they need someone the audience knows who they can stick this to. I get why they do it, and they're certainly not unique in this. I just find it very, very disingenuous.
90-percent
(6,838 posts)and my take is they blamed her for losing 25,000 desperately needed jobs, due to her naivety and inexperience and inept political manuvering. I am not well informed on amazon's efforts to set up shop in nyc? My impression of amazon is that they are predatory, overwork their employees, and are as un-generous to their employees as Walmart. Maximize executive compensation by extracting money from the workers to reward the morbidly wealthy execs.
And the current corporate model is to escape all taxes and then say; "So what, our employees pay taxes and we sure as hell have a lot of them"!
Gotta love our corporate "slave wage job creators!
-90% Jimmy
Baitball Blogger
(46,821 posts)Yes, it sound like she was solely responsible for the Amazon pullout. They were very sloppy in their commentary.
whathehell
(29,124 posts)Like most progressives, she is Pro-union and Anti Sweatshop McJobs.
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)don't happen overnight. I doubt AOC joining the call had much effect on a process that was started when Amazon announced their intention to have HQ2 in NYC.
Cuthbert Allgood
(5,013 posts)Solid Dems support unions.
brooklynite
(95,164 posts)It feeds into Trump's new narrative of wild-eyed socialists, the policies of which may be popular in safe Blue districts (except that polling showed the Amazon deal was actually popular), but won't play well in the suburban districts and rust-belt States we have to win in 2020.
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(5,013 posts)You know, things in the Dem platform. Being pro-worker and all. Which Amazon markedly is not.
But, yeah, the elections.
whathehell
(29,124 posts)Wages and the like, equal "wild eyed socialism", when in reality, unionized workers comprised about a Third of the American wokforce prior to the Reagan era, when corporate efforts to union bust and drive down the Middle Class got serious.
melman
(7,681 posts)Is basically a way of saying you think he's right without actually saying it.
Why else would you say "the policies of which won't play well" right after "wide eyed socialists"?
brooklynite
(95,164 posts)The voters we have to attract to win back in MI, PA, OH, WI and FL don't see the world the way AOC and "Democratic Socialists" do, and aren't going to be supportive of policies they see as radical. As an example, you won't get the New Green Deal passed by simply saying there's no other choice, you're going to have frame reasonable steps that can be taken.
comradebillyboy
(10,194 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)...to understand them so well.
brooklynite
(95,164 posts)...and I've spoke to many of our Midterm candidates from WI, MI, PA and FL...
So, yes, I feel comfortable in my assessment.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Sounds like you really got your finger on the pulse of the common man.
brooklynite
(95,164 posts)If you're questioning my veracity, feel free to check my FEC records.
As for the common man, letting a Republican get into office because the voters find your platform too radical doesn't help.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)I'm questioning your sampling data.
brooklynite
(95,164 posts)...Where did AOC-style progressives win in competitive suburban districts?
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Wouldn't you agree?
manor321
(3,344 posts)fleur-de-lisa
(14,631 posts)Celerity
(43,919 posts)world wide wally
(21,762 posts)Amazon a check.
Who cares about winning the lottery?
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)This isn't the first time I have seen AOC not understand what is being discussed. Amazon gets enormous breaks, and appears to have paid zero in corporate taxes, that does not mean they paid no taxes. AOC has a very poor understanding of taxes.
Apollyonus
(812 posts)Celerity
(43,919 posts)Amazon now pays even LESS tax while struggling High Street firms pay up to 20 times more
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/amazon-now-pay-even-less-13023482
Amazon paid just £15m in tax on European revenues of £19.5bn
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/10/amazon-uk-halves-its-corporation-tax-to-74m-as-sales-soar-to-7bn
AMAZON: HOW THE WORLD'S LARGEST RETAILER KEEPS TAX COLLECTORS AT BAY
https://www.newsweek.com/2016/07/22/amazon-jeff-bezos-taxes-479814.html
How Amazon Built Its Empire On One Tax Loophole
https://thinkprogress.org/how-amazon-built-its-empire-on-one-tax-loophole-49732e358856/
Amazon Just Got Nailed for Allegedly Evading $300 Million in EU Taxes
https://gizmodo.com/amazon-just-got-nailed-for-allegedly-evading-300-milli-1819128919
From Seattle to Luxembourg: how tax schemes shaped Amazon
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/25/from-seattle-to-luxembourg-how-tax-schemes-shaped-amazon
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)She is clearly wrong. She really has a limited understanding of taxation.
Celerity
(43,919 posts)WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)What they are talking about. It's clear she doesn't understand taxation.
fleur-de-lisa
(14,631 posts)watoos
(7,142 posts)Democrats are making a big mistake siding with Republicans in attacking AOC. She is a rare talent that can change the right wing narratives, just like Al Franken had. When do we turn on Speaker Pelosi?
INdemo
(6,994 posts)covering the Democrats and their weaknesses.
Right after he said Trump has a 10-15% chance of re-election..That is when I changed the channel
Comcast and MJ Producers know how to promote Trump without promoting Trump
Response to Yavin4 (Original post)
NCChomskyan This message was self-deleted by its author.
Me.
(35,454 posts)and gave lots of money to Dems. It kills him that Individual 1 is a Con and destroying that party and he tries to deflect from it all the time.
blaze
(6,415 posts)wishstar
(5,273 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)...they are NOT our friends. They are anti-tRump*, that's about it.
What would be AWESOME, is a Rachael Maddow/Chris Hayes-type morning show with liberals, progressives, Dems, etc. giving their perspective on the day's events. And I am SICK TO FUCKING DEATH of MJ's rethuglican hero worship. Memo to Joe: Ronnie the Raygun* and his scumbag administration were responsible for some of the worst 20th century moments in our nation's history.
Nanjeanne
(5,012 posts)Response to Nanjeanne (Reply #25)
Apollyonus This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)other localities because these are well-paid jobs.
Actually 25,000 employees would pay a whole lot of taxes -- income, property, sales, etc., not to mention other economic activity to support them. And the construction and investment would help improve the area.
I can see the concern about the impact Amazon might have on the neighborhood. In fact, I was surprised Amazon selected that area. But, I guess if you want the best employees, NYC is going to attract them. My understanding is these jobs were supposed to average $150K.
trixie2
(905 posts)I live in a city that is heavily populated with corporations that get tax breaks and it means we get excellent city services and very low taxes. I pay only $900 in property taxes, have complete garbage/recycling services including free containers for garbage, recycling and yard waste. We have water, sewers, gas and many amenities that a large city would enjoy. My sister moved to another city in the same county. She has no garbage pickup whatsoever. She can't even pay for it. All garbage must be hauled to the city dump. No recycling facilities. No sewers, no water, no gas lines, no cable, no wife. She pays $6000 in property taxes. They have no industry. Their public library is a tiny old house. No schools so the kids are bussed to other districts. I don't get it.
90-percent
(6,838 posts)is $3,750,000,000. Three billion Seven hundred fifty million dollars per year. Sorry, I find it incomprehensible a corporate scumbag like Bezo's would so lavishly pay for such a large workforce. What sort of work will these 25,000 employees do that warrants such generous compensation? Would it be 25,000 IT pros with experience that have post graduate programming degrees?
Would they make these employees piss in a cup at their desks because the trip to the bathroom wastes too much production time?
I would think there would be 24,000 hourly $13 an hour employees and maybe the remaining thousand would get those $150K jobs?
I never worked in High Tech silicon valley companies. Worked with a guy in 2014 that moved from Boston to Apple west coast that loved it and he was generously compensated. He was extremely dedicated to the job and would work 24 hours straight if it was necessary. He spent 6 months in China setting up some cnc machines for production.
-90% Jimmy
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Response to Yavin4 (Original post)
Post removed
quickesst
(6,286 posts).... that the anti Amazon people really don't give two shits about what their constituents think, and if you think Ocasio Cortez is not that involved, you can be damn sure she's taking credit for it. Looks like the only demographic that is on the anti Amazon side of things are the Repuglicans. Speaks volumes, especially among the African American (70%) and Latino (81%) communities. Maybe they just don't know what's good for them. Personally, I think Whoopi Goldberg was right.
*
NYS voters 56%
NYC voters 58%
Democrats 56%
Republicans 47%
Others 64%
Union workers 53%
Nonunion workers 57%
White 51%
African-American 70%
Latino 81%
18-34 57%
35-54 60%
55+ 52%
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/opinion/all-kinds-new-york-voters-support-amazon-hq-deal
Yavin4
(35,459 posts)No one knows for sure the kind of jobs Amazon was bringing to NYC. But, for argument's sake, let's say that these 25,000 high paying jobs did materialize. Wouldn't that crowd out other employers from starting a business here knowing that they would have to pay their employees as much as Amazon does in order to attract talent? In the end, it may have been a net negative for NYers,
I would rather that there be 100 smaller Amazons than one big employer.
..... you believe what I said earlier is true. The people just don't know what's good for them.
Do you have insight as to when these 100 small businesses will begin, and how long will it take these businesses collectively to employ 25000 people? While pondering that, there are 25,000 people that could use a job right now, but that opportunity is kaput.
Yavin4
(35,459 posts)So, may be they don't know the full story. Also, who's to say what these 25,000 jobs will be or what field they will be in. Everyone has these dreams of high-paying tech jobs, but we don't know for sure if that's what they will be.
quickesst
(6,286 posts)... Is that they are jobs. Maybe a small percentage of those 25,000 people might aspire to Hi-Tech paying jobs, but I'm pretty sure most of them understand the kind of jobs that Amazon will offer. Warehouse positions are not really considered high-tech paying jobs and don't require a college education or a degree. You still haven't answered my question which I would repeat here.
"Do you have insight as to when these 100 small businesses will begin, and how long will it take these businesses collectively to employ 25000 people? While pondering that, there are 25,000 people that could use a job right now, but that opportunity is kaput.
Yavin4
(35,459 posts)https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/02/15/business/economy/nyc-tech-startups-amazon.html
Cuthbert Allgood
(5,013 posts)Like a specific quotation from her.
quickesst
(6,286 posts)One of the most vocal opponents of Amazon's planned presence in Queens was Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, whose congressional district borders the district that includes Long Island City.
"Anything is possible," she tweeted on Thursday in response to Amazon's decision. "Today was the day a group of dedicated, everyday New Yorkers & their neighbors defeated Amazon's corporate greed, its worker exploitation, and the power of the richest man in the world."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/14/ocasio-cortez-amazon-cancelling-nyc-hq-proves-anything-is-possible.html
If you believe this is not taking some credit for Amazon abandoning New York, then I can't help you. I stand with the 70% African Americans and the 81% of the Latino community who favored the Amazon deal.
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)pay zero in taxes. AOC is right on the money.
airmid
(500 posts)to listen to the nonsense they are spewing. They are just a bunch of rich people worried about their bank accounts
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)He really is a bully.
comradebillyboy
(10,194 posts)Most people use Amazon and like Amazon. Jeff Bezos didn't personally write the tax code, that's on congress. Chasing away employers will not win any friends outside the most well to do liberal circles. Bad politics, bad imagery.
QC
(26,371 posts)Heavens to Betsy!
NCjack
(10,279 posts)on the mom and pop businesses and income tax payers. Amazon needs to move on find a sucker who will pay their assessments.
themaguffin
(3,833 posts)the impact and let's be real, the jobs are not going to go to many current residents.
Several other finalist cities made much more sense...
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