Want to confuse a RW'er, tell them you're pro 2A, but not a member of the NRA.

[ffr]

Spent some time with a crowd of RW'ers this weekend. What a bunch of nuts that can't think things through. Their hate for democrats would seem to be mostly centered around what they've been told by RW M$M that Dems are here to take away their guns. On that one issue alone, they will choose all the other ills of the republican party and vote party-line republican, which to me feels like a huge missed opportunity.

Which has me wondering, why can't we democrats state as part of our platform that we're pro-2nd amendment and not just as a photo-op. Do it up. Go to a firing range repeatedly and blast off some ammo like they do, show off that musket on the mantel and if there is one, the family's long history of owning guns. No harm in that! I personally don't have any beef with a pro firearm Dem, just not a pro-assault rifle, pro-NRA Dem/Progressive...which seems to be what we're all fighting against.

Point is, we need to win over some of this, mainly white men, segment. Think 77,000 votes. True, we can't win them all over, but we need to break into their mindset and this seems like a clear and simple 'one issue' way to do that.

[marybourg]

1. I'm NOT pro the second amendment interpretation

of the Supreme Court. I’m pro a well regulated militia, and the right of people belonging to such a militia, or retired from it, to keep long guns in their gun safes to turn out to protect us, if necessary. And certain hobbyists, with precautions. I don’t believe in ordinary citizens, with ordinary. security requirements, carrying handguns in public. So, if rwers hate me, so be it. I hate their ideas, and don’t intend to alter my stance to mollify them.

[hack89]

5. The SC interpretation is also the interpretation of the Democratic party

Hillary, Bernie, Obama are all on record as saying the 2A protects an individual right to bear arms separate from the militia. It was part of the Democratic Party platform when Obama ran.

[marybourg]

21. Well, unlike them, I'm not running for office,

so I don’t have to placate single-issue potential voters.

[hack89]

23. Just pointing out your view is not mainstream

even in the Democratic party.

[trc]

20. So you are pro second amendment

You just don't like some of the ridiculous interpretations that have been applied to it. I would agree. I start my conversations with "we would be better off without handguns, but that is not where we live, so what are reasonable options for defining what the second amendment is?" Do civilians need to own fully automatic machine guns? If bump stocks achieve that same end, do we need those for sale to the general public? Should you be allowed to own a fully functional Howitzer? Do we need 100 round barrel magazines for "sport" (assault) weapons? Are there reasonable restrictions on what can or should be owned? For me those questions get the conversation started and can, in some cases, let me know that the person(s) I am talking to can be persuaded in any way or are simply stuck on all guns for all people. Full disclosure, I own a handgun, I inherited several long guns including a sporterized Arisaka Type 99, and I am interested in purchasing an AR 10 (7.62/.308) for hunting. I would not be bothered one bit if the United States followed the Aussies and made gun ownership much more difficult, but we are not there yet, so I argue to persuade. I find my gun ownership buys me an in with some folks who otherwise would dismiss me as a "libtard gun-hater." I take that opportunity to talk sensible gun restrictions...and hammer the NRA as a crooked organization that no longer cares about gun safety, just corporate gun profits...and Russian money and influence.

[manor321]

2. I want to take away people's guns

The Constitution guarantees arms to the militia, which is today the National Guard. It is there to allow the country to have a militia to put down citizen insurrections and foreign invasions.

It's obvious from the massive slaughter on our streets, far and above other countries, that people should not be allowed to own guns.

There would only be highly regulated exceptions for keeping safe from wildlife, etc.

[hack89]

7. So tell me about this golden age when guns were restricted to militia members

and ownership outside of the militia was prohibited. Can you show me the laws that were used to actually enforce your view of the 2A?

Hasn't private ownership of guns been the norm for all of American history?

And BTW - the militia is not limited to the National Guard. Go read section 10 of the US Code.

[MicaelS]

30. So you only want the Military and Law Enforcement..

To have guns, is that what you're saying?

The same Military and Law Enforcement that is frequently accused to be Conservative, White Nationalist, racist, sexist and homophobic?

[EX500rider]

41. "the massive slaughter on our streets, far and above other countries" ?

You mean beside the 90 or so other countries with a higher homicide rate?
The US is below world avg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[Aristus]

3. Fuck no. I'm not pro-2A. What bullshit.

I'm not in favor of easy mass-murder or easy access to the weaponry designed to commit it.

[ffr]

4. That's fine, but it is part of our constitution, so would you support a pro 2A Dem over NRA Rep?

Or is that a bridge too far? I'd hope not.

[EffieBlack]

6. There's a huge difference between supporting constitutional right to bear arms

and and behaving like a firearms waving gun nut in order to appease the most extreme element the right-wing militia crowd.

[ffr]

13. You prove my point exactly. Diversity. They're the extremist one topic small tent party

We don't have to think alike. That's the beauty of who we are. Wouldn't you agree?

Defuse the hostility towards 2A voters in general. As a collective we agree on more things than we disagree. That's always been the democratic party, the party of diversity.

Big tent.

[EffieBlack]

17. I'm not interested in diversity for diversity's sake

Inviting racist skinheads into the party would make it more diverse, but I don't want them in my tent.

I'm not interested in the Democrats wasting limited time and resources chasing around after gun nuts when there are so many other people whose interests are much more in line with ours that we could be reaching out to

[Downtown Hound]

10. I would ALWAYS vote for a Dem over a Repuke.

[Downtown Hound]

8. I have zero interest in humoring them that much

Even though I do support the right to own guns in a limited and restricted fashion, I have no interest in pandering to their delusions and ignorance. We DO NOT need to win them over. They are already a minority and will continue to become an even smaller one. What we need to do is embrace the future. People of color, women, young people, and sane white men are it. How about we try winning them over for a change, and not those paranoid dinosaurs who are best left in the last century?

[EffieBlack]

19. THANK YOU!

[JohnnyRingo]

27. Not humor them.

I'd like to re-frame the issue to say we aren't coming for your guns. Many, many democrats own guns, but you wouldn't know that at election time. The NRA has been pulling that well worn ace from their sock for decades and it's time to take it out of the deck.

The NRA sure doesn't mind cashing Michael Moore's membership dues while they slam him as a gun grabber.

[FoxNewsSucks]

9. I have guns,

I've had them for over 40 years. Since I was in high school and got them to go hunting with my friends. A .22, a 12-gauge, and a .30-30. Back then, the NRA was not the blood-thirsty russia-funded lobby group it is now. In fact, back then it was a good source of information and hunter-safety classes.

I haven't gone shooting or hunting for a long time. But target practice is fun, and I have no problem at all with hunting andeating what you shoot. That's why those three guns were exactly what was appropriate for me. Where I grew up, you needed a small-caliber rifle, a deer rifle and a shotgun. I have no desire to buy a machine gun like these AR-15s. I don't think the public should have military weapons.

I'm sure there are some republicon-voters who think that way as well. I agree that we should speak to them instead of treating them like the crazed AR-15 gun loons who stockpile weapons.

[ffr]

15. And you should feel welcome as a diverse part of the democratic party.

Stronger together.

[TwistOneUp]

24. The Big Tent! nt

[FakeNoose]

35. And yet ... here you are on DU

... and I'll assume that you vote with the rest of us Democrats. Owning guns and going to target practice is perfectly OK and legal. I'm in Pennsylvania, and I know a lot of deer hunters. It will never be outlawed here, I can assure you.

I think the point of this thread is that more Dems should speak up in favor of responsible gun ownership. Am I right? The issue was never when do we go around and confiscate all the guns in America. But it's a lie perpetrated by crazy rightwingers to keep the low-information voters in line and keep 'em voting red.

With a little bit of outreach and plain talking, maybe Democratic gun owners can change a few minds.

[FoxNewsSucks]

45. Yes,

that's how I took the point of this thread. Not that we have to concede to the gunhumpers, but to realize that some people are legitimate hunters (not asshole trophy hunters), and some just enjoy target shooting. They should not be lumped together with the crazies who take machine gun AR-15's to commit mass murder.

I sent that cartoon to several people when Luckovich first published it. Really nails the ignorance of the MAGAt gunhumpers.

And yes, there's no way I would ever vote for a filthy republicon. Ever.

[Generic Other]

11. I was alone on a remote beach yesterday

when I heard what sounded like assault rifle fire coming from the woods. Maybe 50 rounds fired very rapidly.

The sound was so intrusive and unsettling. The scene on the beach went from serene and spiritually soothing to anxiety-ridden and filled with thoughts of emergency lockdowns and active shooter drills.

I don't believe there were any threats in my vicinity that called for a semi-assault rifle response. I back safe and sane gun regulations.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

12. I own firearms

I have a pistol, 2 shotguns, and a rifle. I don't hunt. All my neighbors have firearms and are active hunters. Without them, we'd have a very sickly local deer population or we'd have to have wolves or other predators of that size.

We don't need private armies. Weapons like the AR-15 should only be available to the military.

[ooky]

14. You are correct about their "gun" votes.

Republicans get a lot of votes from single issue voters who are afraid dems will "take away their guns". Its a big issue where I live. I have never yet seen a Presidential election where the gun placards don't start showing up in our mailboxes a few weeks before the early voting starts.

[ffr]

18. It drives me crazy when I see it too, probably like you too. +1

[aikoaiko]

16. There are some Democrats that do. Conor Lamb in PA for example.

But Conor Lamb is PA 17th District.

Here is a still from his ad.

?quality=65&strip=all8332600

After Sandy Hook and Parkland school shootings its a more controversial strategy. It will work for some in some places.

Even President Obama demonstrated that he was not anti-gun by showing his shotgunning skills.

?uuid=tmiiJm1nEeKtoFyl-n6-eQ

[melm00se]

22. I am

and I'm not

[JohnnyRingo]

25. It's a false narrative that dems don't own guns.

Of course we do. Probably nearly as many democrats own firearms as republicans, but the right likes to broad-brush frame us as being anti-gun. I can't think of any family members or close democratic friends who don't have at least one.

I agree that background checks and strongly regulating assault rifles off the streets is common sense. That's not against the 2nd.

[Runningdawg]

26. My Democratic dad gave me my first gun at 13

When I bought my first one at 18 he said - "If you ever join the NRA I will come to your house and take all of your guns. Stay away from those idiots"

[HopeAgain]

28. Fuck No!

How many gun deaths have we had recently? How many mass shootings? I am not pro Second Amendment.

[ffr]

29. Mass shootings due to assault rifles mainly. Did you even read my post or just the title?

Give it a second look.

[Woodwizard]

31. Neighbor shot his .308 through my shop wall last week

There needs to be some type of certification for owning firearms I was working in my shop last week when a neighbor started firing a rifle, next thing I know a bullet went through the wall hit my workbench blew out the top of it and went in the ceiling. This was not an assault style weapon it was a 308 bolt action hunting rifle. I was 15 feet away repairing one of my saws. My wife and daughter were in that area outside my building a week before cutting firewood and brush.

The problem is all you need here in NY is ID and no felonies and you got a long gun without the slightest idea of the damage it is capable of. Serving in the army we trained with our m16 rifles for 2 weeks before even live firing. The police arrested the neighbor and confiscated the firearm for reckless endangerment. I hope they take his rights away they just moved in behind me, the excuse was he did not see my shop, its brown and green he has to drive by it to go to town, the house is 3 acres away. He was shooting with no backstop I have a feeling this is not the last of the stupidity.

I myself own firearms and have no issue with properly trained owners never been or will be a member of the NRA.

[ffr]

32. Agree. Do you have to sue him for damages?

Scary!

[Woodwizard]

34. I may

The DA is charging reckless endangerment and unlawful firing too close to residences, I may sue for damages my building is a 40x60 steel shop the hole in the metal is easily fixed as is the bench, I put it all up myself I am sure if I got a contractor quote to replace the whole panel it would be expensive so I may. Our house is just down the hill 120 feet away could have just as easily hit the house.

[Alea]

33. A good start would be not pushing gun owning Dems away from the party

You may not agree that is happening, but you would be wrong. Don't get me wrong, I like your post, but we are being pushed out, or at least left behind as the party moves further to the left.

[keithbvadu2]

36. The only recent Prez to confiscate legally owned guns was Dubya after Katrina.

The only recent Prez to confiscate legally owned guns was Dubya after Katrina.

[AncientGeezer]

46. That wasn't a Shrub order...that was the N.O. locals decision.

[keithbvadu2]

48. Assisted by Dubya's administration

Assisted by Dubya's administration

[keithbvadu2]

37. NRA fundraising is p ssing folks off.

NRA Cuts More Operating Costs-and Lavishes Executives With Perks

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/11/nra-money-executive-perks-pay-cutting-costs/


The NRA Is Being Sued Over Its Relentless Telemarketing Campaigns

When begging for bucks goes wrong.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-nra-is-being-sued-over-its-relentless-telemarketing-campaigns

The NRA has employed InfoCision since 2012 under a contract that grants the fundraising company up to 65 percent of the funds it raises on the NRA’s behalf. InfoCision gets between $2.50 and $3.75 for each “completed call” to potential NRA donors, and up to half of the regular payments for new or renewed NRA memberships.
-------------------------------------------

If those high fees are unavoidable, they can also have the effect of obscuring, for a potential donor, exactly where his or her money is going. Many of those speaking with an InfoCision fundraiser, after all, will not know that a majority of their donation is not going to the charity that fundraiser is representing.

================================

comment from a blog (DU I think)

I had a coworker who was a big time gun owner who kept a gun in every room in the house just in case someone broke in (lots of problems with that idea, may be worth a blog article someday, but that’s what he did). He even went so far as to start buying more guns for each room after a school shooting, like home invasion and mass shooting are correlated somehow. He had let his NRA membership lapse and refused to renew it because he got tired of nonstop requests for donations. To him all the membership did was give the NRA to badger him for more money with phone calls, and direct mailings. If the
organization is as strapped for cash as it appears, those solicitations may have gone way over the top and people are simply tired of being badgered for money and are choosing to let their membership to lapse.

[ffr]

39. 9 most terrifying words.

I'm from the NRA and I'm here to help.

[madville]

38. Most gunowners are not NRA members

Something like less than 5% of gunowners are NRA members.

[ffr]

40. Even better.

Let's see if we can break through to some of the 95% who aren't gun nuts and put them back into our column.

[GulfCoast66]

42. Our platform clearly states the ability to own a firearm is a right.

Subject to reasonable restrictions such as an AWB, and magazine limits. And for sure Universal Background Checks.

As a hunter and gun owner I support our Platform 100%.

[KG]

43. piss on conservatives of all stripes. don't care to engage them on any level, except for the mocking

the so richly deserve.

[lambchopp59]

44. RW pundits vomit up this "libs comin' ta take yer guns" tactic regularly for 50 plus years I recall

And have done so as long as I recall, the die-hard nutjobbies will never be convinced otherwise:
I had the conversation long ago with a RW gun nut:
Stating my position that assault rifles and reasonable mental health restrictions must be in place.
Of Coooooourse, RW nut job flailed about stating how once one tiny "infringement" happens, it's a snowball effect, restating the excerpt "shall not be infringed" with temple-artery flaring fervor.
(and conveniently leaving out the well-regulated militia part)
There are only a few I've left reeling with asking them if that includes the well armed liberals that are coming for their guns? In the internet era, I've stopped a few of their rants cold with asking them that one.

[louis c]

47. I'm pro second amendment...

...especially the part about "well regulated"