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karynnj

(59,503 posts)
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 03:40 PM Dec 2018

The military pullout is for anti ISIS effort, our role in the Syrian civil war never included boots

Last edited Sun Dec 23, 2018, 04:42 PM - Edit history (1)

on the ground. The two have been conflated even by some Democratic leaning pundits and elected officials. In addition, I have heard no one, other than an oblique mention from John Kerry in his call to Brian Williams, point out that the US has been absent from diplomatic efforts. (The Trump administration is not involved in the Syrian or the Yemeni talks.)

Mattis and Special Envoy, McGurk resigned over Trump taking a policy - leaving the anti ISIS effort - completely at odds with our interests. The characterization of that conversation shows that Trump has no ability or patience needed to consider all the issues and forces at work in that area. I remember in 2016, Secretary Kerry speaking about how it was the most complex situation he had seen in his over 30 years (when he was either on the SFRC or Secretary). He listed the many simultaneous conflicts that ALL needed to be considered and resolved.

Also, I read accounts of the various Obama era plans to deal with ISIS. In brief the plan was to have the boots on the ground being local people, especially the Kurds, in both Iraq and Syria with US and allies supplying guidance and air power. Obama and his allies worked to involve the Iraqi government and pushed them to make their government more inclusive. In addition to the military, there was a strong effort to restore goverence and rebuild in the areas reclaimed. Norway and the US led on a demining effort and there were efforts to get pledges from governments to fund rebuilding totally decimated cities. The effort was to try to avoid the situation that occured in both Iraq and parts of Afghanistan where we and allies succeeded in winning areas -- only to lose them after we moved on. Developing good goverence was key to Iraq keeping the areas won back.

At this point, ISIS still controls a limited amount of land, but the greater risk is that we have only just started the effort to stabalize and repair the areas they controlled. This work - primarilly not military - was planned to make our effort more likely to lead to long term peace.

Syria was always more complicated because there was a civil war and we could not ally with Assad. In fighting ISIS, we "deconflicted" with Assad, Russia and Iran to avoid hitting each other. The civil war was more complicated, but our role was had two distinct pieces. We trained and arms those rebels we could find who we thought were not jihadis, but often later found that they allied with Al Nusra and other jihadi groups because they both had their main goal of defeating Assad. This was controversial. Many thought we should avoid doing anything and others wanted us to fight on their side. The other piece was that the US was part of the diplomatic efforts that began in 2011 to end the civil war. In 2015, John Kerry and Sergi Lavrov did succeed in getting a resolution passed. This included the very heavy lift of getting both Saudi Arabia and Iran on board. There were also many ceasefires, that never held for long. One part of the UN resolution is it would lead to a UN led election that would also allow the various people who left Syria to vote. As noted in the UN document, the role of Assad was not agreed upon. https://www.un.org/press/en/2015/sc12171.doc.htm

This resolution was the basis of the January 2018 UN effort and current efforts. Here is a recent statement - https://www.un.org/sg/en/content/sg/note-correspondents/2018-12-18/note-correspondents-statement-of-behalf-of-the-un-special-envoy-for-syria-staffan-de-mistura

The problem here is that Trump never joined the diplomatic effort to end the chaos. That weakens the power of our allies in the coalition and has increased the voice of Assad, Russia and Iran.

Here is a link to a summary of the UN diplomatic efforts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_peace_process. Note that since mid December 2016, the US has not been involved. The lame duck Obama administration was specifically NOT invited to the first Russia, Turkey and Iran effort, but they extended an invitation at that time for the Trump administration to join when he took office that was reported by the WP and others ( https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/first-sign-of-enhanced-us-russia-relations-under-trump-an-invite-to-syria-talks/2017/01/13/81d443d6-d9b9-11e6-9f9f-5cdb4b7f8dd7_story.html?utm_term=.b0fe747c9258 ) As can be seen from the time line, the US has been absent for the last two years in these diplomatic efforts.

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The military pullout is for anti ISIS effort, our role in the Syrian civil war never included boots (Original Post) karynnj Dec 2018 OP
I posted this because I think the careful plan to defeat ISIS, which has been effective up to now, karynnj Dec 2018 #1
An interesting New Yorker account that speaks of where the anti ISIS coalition is now. karynnj Dec 2018 #2
I can only imagine. Ciaphas Cain Dec 2018 #3

karynnj

(59,503 posts)
1. I posted this because I think the careful plan to defeat ISIS, which has been effective up to now,
Sat Dec 22, 2018, 06:27 PM
Dec 2018

is in danger. Also in danger is giving Obama credit for the military/diplomatic effort behind this. This happens when people confuse US troops fighting in Syria with troops there to fight ISIS.

Not to mention, this is another instance of Trump blindsiding our allies (the coalition) and Congress -- changing long term American policy ... usually in ways that diminish the US and make Russia stronger.

Ciaphas Cain

(124 posts)
3. I can only imagine.
Sun Dec 23, 2018, 06:50 PM
Dec 2018

The biggest reason people join these groups is political instability and the myriad problems that such instability causes. The main way to lure them away from such groups is by providing a better alternative- and people love stability. It's nice knowing that my babies will be fed tomorrow even if it's going to be people who scare the crap out of me giving them food.


President Obama knew that because he wasn't an unstable idiot. Presidunce Trumpolini is going to cause our allies to lose a fight they were going to be able to win eventually simply because he's acting rashly and making people doubt that we're going to be there for them.
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