Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 02:09 PM Dec 2018

I no longer care if the Senate votes for impeachment

although I do want the House to vote a bill of impeachment. Trump is so compromised and hated, ridiculed every night on late TV that he will never get a 2nd term. After the Mueller report and the House investigation bring out more facts and evidence of Trump and GOP collusion, not voting to impeach will be the death knell of every GOP senator's career. Some are so involved and implicated (ya hear that Mitch?) that they may well have to resign before there's even an impeachment vote.

One thing is for sure that the GOP is chin deep in a sewer of every form of corruption possible. It is my hope that post-Trump, there will be renaissance of talk about ethical behavior. We hear from the GOP a lot of bullshit about law 'n' order, but when have you ever heard one of them talk about the self discipline of ethical behavior? When have you ever heard one of them talk about basic human decency? When have you ever heard one of them talk about the corruption of greed? Like no time, right?

So going forward, I shall be listening for which Dev POTUS candidates say something beyond empty platitudes about honor, decency, integrity, and ethical behavior. Which candidates will have a campaign platform that includes strengthening campaign finance laws? Which candidates eschew campaign contributions from corporate bad actors, pirates, and environment degraders? I hope that they all talk about this. We shall see.

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I no longer care if the Senate votes for impeachment (Original Post) vlyons Dec 2018 OP
The proof is in the pudding (or the voting record in this case) pecosbob Dec 2018 #1
K&R totally agree... N_E_1 for Tennis Dec 2018 #2
Kick it Ponietz Dec 2018 #3
In addition, the House has a moral obligation to investigate all the grifters and monkey-wrenchers pecosbob Dec 2018 #4
The House does not need to impeach Trump right out of the gate, elocs Dec 2018 #16
While I empathize with the sense of, 'not care if Senate votes for impeachment', . . . empedocles Dec 2018 #5
I did write that I wanted the House vlyons Dec 2018 #8
The crime was against We The People populistdriven Dec 2018 #6
The Senate does not "vote for impeachment." stopbush Dec 2018 #7
"The Senate holds a trial" brooklynite Dec 2018 #9
Yup. Ignorance runs deep... Joe941 Dec 2018 #22
by voting guilty or non-guilty vlyons Dec 2018 #10
No. You are misusing the word impeachment. stopbush Dec 2018 #13
I got your point and it's a good one. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2018 #26
Oh, with subpeona power, I want the Dems to do a LOT more damage, but the corporate press Baltimike Dec 2018 #11
I want criminal charges against his family drmeow Dec 2018 #12
Bingo!! InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2018 #30
"although I do want the House to vote a bill of impeachment" elocs Dec 2018 #14
vote for the Dem candidates in the 2020 election, of course vlyons Dec 2018 #17
I agree...... Takket Dec 2018 #15
exactly! vlyons Dec 2018 #21
Charlie Pierce make a good case woofless Dec 2018 #18
If the house impeached it will be interesting how the Republicans will justify not convicting Buckeyeblue Dec 2018 #19
If Trump is impeached, he may very well win a second term...don't impeach unless he can be Demsrule86 Dec 2018 #20
impeach or lose a lot of Democratic voters Hermit-The-Prog Dec 2018 #23
Yup, impeachment of the Traitor-in-Chief should be the very first act of Congress. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2018 #27
it can't be the first act Hermit-The-Prog Dec 2018 #29
I spoke to about 50 House candidates this past cycle... brooklynite Dec 2018 #28
please re-read what i posted Hermit-The-Prog Dec 2018 #31
Maybe if he is Meowmee Dec 2018 #24
As long as the economy is good he has a very good chance at being reelected. KWR65 Dec 2018 #25
No! We don't go down that rabbit hole until all evidence is in & the public strongly supports it. LBM20 Dec 2018 #32
I am ninety percent of the way there. DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2018 #33
CNN Poll: Fewer support impeaching Trump Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #34
disgusting that so many back not impeaching LiberalLovinLug Dec 2018 #35
I have a hard time trying to find reasons why anyone voted for Trump. Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #36

pecosbob

(7,627 posts)
1. The proof is in the pudding (or the voting record in this case)
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 02:16 PM
Dec 2018

I believe it to be an issue of moral responsibility. The House has an obligation to impeach, regardless of the consequence. I do not believe for a minute that this will negatively impact Democratic turnout next year, but will energize GOTV efforts.

N_E_1 for Tennis

(9,947 posts)
2. K&R totally agree...
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 02:17 PM
Dec 2018

Could be the only reason that’s good about Individual #1 being where he is. It will take really strong candidates to refuse corporate corrupt money but that’s what must be done.

pecosbob

(7,627 posts)
4. In addition, the House has a moral obligation to investigate all the grifters and monkey-wrenchers
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 02:23 PM
Dec 2018

From Pruit and Zinke, to both of the DeVos siblings, to the Senators and Representatives in Putin's pocket. Failure to do so is to admit that we have two sets of laws in the nation...one for the rich and one for the poor.

elocs

(22,775 posts)
16. The House does not need to impeach Trump right out of the gate,
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 05:40 PM
Dec 2018

but they can destroy him with a political death of a thousand cuts with enough investigations to bring him down. Then when they have built a strong case with lots of evidence, impeach him.

empedocles

(15,751 posts)
5. While I empathize with the sense of, 'not care if Senate votes for impeachment', . . .
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 02:32 PM
Dec 2018

. . . imo, the case against trump needs to be as fully developed as possible. Important for making sure we get rid of trump, with broad support, that will better support efforts to root out as well as legislate against corruption, do full justice, etc.

populistdriven

(5,646 posts)
6. The crime was against We The People
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 03:23 PM
Dec 2018

The only possible way to make us whole is to reverse absolutely everything he did. The only way this is possible is with Democratic house, Senate, White house and 2+ supreme Court justices.

And that will never happen if he is impeached.

stopbush

(24,422 posts)
7. The Senate does not "vote for impeachment."
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 03:27 PM
Dec 2018

The House impeaches the president. Think of it as a political indictment. Impeachment is the act of bringing charges in the House. That’s it, nothing more. Bill Clinton was impeached. He was then aquitted of the charges in the Senate.

The Senate holds a TRIAL to determine whether the articles of impeachment are valid. Each article is voted on separately. Each article must garner 67 guilty votes to remove the president. A single article garnering 67 votes of guilty is enough to remove the president.

Words matter. Please don’t make up terms like “voting for impeachment” in the Senate. That’s like saying that the Senate “votes to indict the president.”

brooklynite

(95,635 posts)
9. "The Senate holds a trial"
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 04:05 PM
Dec 2018

And if they fail to vote to convict him, effectively he's been acquitted. That's worse than not impeaching him in the first place.

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
10. by voting guilty or non-guilty
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 04:05 PM
Dec 2018

the Senate does in effect vote to impeach and remove from office. You missed my point entirely

stopbush

(24,422 posts)
13. No. You are misusing the word impeachment.
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 05:20 PM
Dec 2018

Impeachment is the act of bringing charges. That’s it. It has no other meaning beyond that, no matter what you think. The Senate votes to remove from office. They do not vote to impeach. Whether the president is found guilty or not guilty they were still impeached by the House.

You are missing the point that words have meanings, especially a word as specific as impeachment.

I’ll make it clear thru an example: if Mueller indicts tRump and tRump must face those charges in a criminal court, that court will decide his guilt or innocence. What they will NOT do is “in effect indict” the president if he is found guilty. The indictment has nothing to do with the finding of guilt or innocence. Same thing with impeachment.

Baltimike

(4,153 posts)
11. Oh, with subpeona power, I want the Dems to do a LOT more damage, but the corporate press
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 04:07 PM
Dec 2018

is trying to save him. He will survive impeachment bc of Moscow Mitch and the Senate, and that will just bolster his low iq base.

Fuck that.

drmeow

(5,082 posts)
12. I want criminal charges against his family
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 04:20 PM
Dec 2018

and cronies. Trump's children (except Tiffany - she's exempt) and their spouses are young enough to be able to continue to do serious damage and commit lots more crime. I want them stopped. I want them stripped of their ill-gotten gains. I do not think than any of them can be rehabilitated so punishment is the only way to protect people from them.

elocs

(22,775 posts)
14. "although I do want the House to vote a bill of impeachment"
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 05:34 PM
Dec 2018

And if they don't impeach Trump, what will you do then?

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
17. vote for the Dem candidates in the 2020 election, of course
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 05:40 PM
Dec 2018

Living in Texas, I especially want to see Cornyn defeated

Takket

(21,912 posts)
15. I agree......
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 05:36 PM
Dec 2018

We need Mueller's report to lay out all the crimes, and the report is clearly going to contain a MULTITUDE of them.

At that point, the House will impeach and all the Dems Senators will vote to convict in the trial.

If ignoring the mountain of evidence to not risk pissing off their base compels the GOP senators to vote to acquit, they are certainly welcome to roll the dice and send that message out to the electorate. It won't work out well for them. The GOP will lose independents and 2020 will be one of the greatest electoral bloodbaths of all time.

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
21. exactly!
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 08:32 PM
Dec 2018

whether GOP senators vote for or against is now irrelevant. Trump is toast already, and soon to be burnt toast. The crimes of Trump and his cronies and enablers will be laid out for all to see and hear. So go ahead GOP senators, vote to acquit and watch your party go the way of the Whig party.

Buckeyeblue

(5,520 posts)
19. If the house impeached it will be interesting how the Republicans will justify not convicting
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 06:21 PM
Dec 2018

Depending on what else comes out, they may not have as choice. 45 will only resign if he gets something out of it. Which will make it harder for them. But who cares.

Demsrule86

(69,100 posts)
20. If Trump is impeached, he may very well win a second term...don't impeach unless he can be
Sun Dec 16, 2018, 06:25 PM
Dec 2018

convicted and tossed out of office.

Hermit-The-Prog

(34,196 posts)
23. impeach or lose a lot of Democratic voters
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 02:18 AM
Dec 2018

There is enough known already to bring articles of impeachment, it's just not enough for about half the country. By the time the House finishes investigating, it will be enough for all but deplorables. That will be the proper time to impeach.

It will then be an obvious dereliction of duty if the GOP Senate refuses to convict. Regardless of what the Senate might or might not do, if the Democratic House refuses to impeach when it's the obvious course to most of the country, Democrats will be seen to have failed to do their duty.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,150 posts)
27. Yup, impeachment of the Traitor-in-Chief should be the very first act of Congress.
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 09:33 AM
Dec 2018

He makes Nixon look like an amateur crook.

Hermit-The-Prog

(34,196 posts)
29. it can't be the first act
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 09:39 AM
Dec 2018

The House has promised more pressing things first -- such as voting rights and voter suppression.

brooklynite

(95,635 posts)
28. I spoke to about 50 House candidates this past cycle...
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 09:34 AM
Dec 2018

None of them said that voters wanted them to focus on investigating/Impeaching Trump

Hermit-The-Prog

(34,196 posts)
31. please re-read what i posted
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 09:50 AM
Dec 2018

Most voters don't follow these events as closely as folks do here. As the news gets filled with more and more scandals, investigations and indictments, more people will be catching up. The House will be investigating multiple fronts and that, also, will make the news. When Mueller finishes, it's going to hit the news.

At some point, if he doesn't resign, impeachment will be the focus of voters. The disapproval rating in polls will change to impeachment rating. Watergate is the closest thing I can remember, and it wasn't as dirty, as widespread, nor international like this. The general public is going to get madder before 2020.

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
24. Maybe if he is
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 04:21 AM
Dec 2018

Threatened with impeachment/ charges etc he will resign, I doubt it though. I’d like to see him and P ousted one way or another and Nancy is prez😹

 

LBM20

(1,580 posts)
32. No! We don't go down that rabbit hole until all evidence is in & the public strongly supports it.
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 10:24 AM
Dec 2018

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,729 posts)
33. I am ninety percent of the way there.
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 10:27 AM
Dec 2018

The only occurrences that could persuade me to oppose impeachment is if Mueller and the SDNY exonerate Individual #1.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,218 posts)
35. disgusting that so many back not impeaching
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 02:05 PM
Dec 2018

And more so, that its trending that way.
But hopefully that would change once more details of his crimes comes out. Although I have a hard time trying to find reasons why anyone would not think there is more than enough now.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»I no longer care if the S...