the endgame: i have a hard time not seeing everyone getting a pardon.

[unblock]

january 19, 2021, donnie pardons every republican in sight for anything they ever did. including of course his family and pence.

then he resigns.

pence gets sworn in.

he's president for no more than 24 hours and he has one job, and he does it.

pence pardons donnie for anything he's ever done.


both of their political careers are over but wtf do they care.

they cash in on the usual republican circuit and use it to pay for their legal defense bills for state-level crimes. but they escape everything at the federal level.

i just can't imagine them not figuring out how to use their get out of jail free card.

[Turbineguy]

1. In the end that may be the best course of action.

I discovered a long time ago that you don't get the revenge you want. But sometimes you get an outcome you can live with.

[unblock]

4. I can't abide by that, at least not just that

If they are treated as pariahs and laws are passed to prevent that kind of crap in the future, and foxnews is treated like the propaganda network it actually is, ok, maybe.

But if republicans are able to draw the conclusion that they largely got away with it, then hell no.

[RDANGELO]

2. I doubt very much that he will get reelected.

I wouldn't be surprised if his approval numbers never go back above 40% with everything that is coming out.

[unblock]

3. it's easy to be "distracted" by the legal cases against him.

but the hard reality is that the economy is not going to be looking good over the next two years, a recession is looking more and more likely.

even popular presidents have a tough time in a recession, and if donnie struggles to get to 40% when there's 4% growth, he's really going to be toast in a recession even if he were somehow cleared of all his legal problems.

[RockRaven]

5. I think Trump and Pence and Senate GOPers are corrupt enough for this to occur, but one big obstacle

stands in the way. Namely, Trump has not demonstrated sufficient impulse control, nor strategic thinking himself, nor inclination to assiduously follow the advice of other strategists to lead one to believe this course of action will ever come to be.

Almost certainly Trump will not be able to control himself and will precipitate a cataclysm long before Jan 2021.

[dawg day]

6. I lived in Pence's state, and believe me--

If he got to be president, he would NEVER resign. He'd spend 4 years trying to impose theocracy on the country. He'd try to repeal marriage equality, women's choice, separation between church and state, secular public schools. Then he'd try to make his protestantism the official state religion.

He'll fail at most of those, but he'd spend a lot of time and taxpayer money on the project. He might waste enough time he never gets around to invading Iran so he can convert the "heathens".

[MiniMe]

7. It would only be 2 years before the next election...

But as we have seen from Don the Con, a lot of damage and destruction can be done in 2 years.

[unblock]

8. I'm thinking Donnie gives him only the last day of his term.

If somehow Donnie's about to get kicked out prematurely, ok, then Donnie resigns early and pence has a bit more time in office, but I don't see that as likely.

And I don't see pence winning a presidential election....

[DemocracyMouse]

9. Correct me if I'm wrong, but pardons don't apply to prosecution by the states

....and there’s plenty of Trump-Pence-Putin-etc. at the state level, yes?

[unblock]

14. Presidential pardons don't apply at the state level

They would need pardons from the applicable governors for that.

Some of their activities probably translate into state level crimes, but I'm not sure. Presidential elections are actual conducted at the state level, so there's hope. But federal campaign financing laws? Not sure states have similar laws for presidential campaigns. Maybe states like New York do.

Donnie and family likely has state criminal liability based on other activities that are coming to light, e.g., quite possibly tax evasion in New York due to business practices not particularly related to the campaign. Pence and others don't have this problem.

[TalenaGor]

10. if it really goes down like that how can the Republican party be seen as anything legit ever agai

I'm hoping that Mueller in the states Etc are smart enough to anticipate this......

I don't know if this would work but imagine theres convictions and then pardons.... As you suggest.... All the resignations and whatever happened... But what if more charges came after that? They couldn't pre pardon those lol- it would be too late!

Is something like that possible? if I understand it correctly in order to get pardoned you have to first be convicted right? And if the charges aren't brought yet you can't be convicted therefore you can't be pardoned...

so hopefully Mueller throw them a bone let them pardon it and then crushes them with everything else LOL

[unblock]

17. Ford pardoned Nixon, how did they survive that?

They created a culture where loyalty to party is valued higher than loyalty to ethics or to the law.

They're convinced they're right, they're the party if god and freedom and all that is good, and therefore they're justified in breaking the law in order to get their stupid tax cuts or to force pregnancy on women.

If it unfolds this way, they'll certainly take a hit, but 20% of the people will remain convinced it was a witch hunt and they'll want eventual revenge.

Mostly they'll just separate themselves from Donnie and his gang. Oh, just a fluke. The rest of the party has god's stamp of approval and demoncrats are evil, remember? Carter barely won right after watergate....

[unblock]

19. Also, no, you can be pardoned at any time after the crime has been committed.

A president doesn't need to wait until conviction or even indictment. The only timing restriction is you can't pardon future crimes.

[duforsure]

11. All his pardons will be overturned

Based on his participation in the criminal acts . It'll backfire on him as its shown he was committing criminal acts also, and his co-conspiracy status shows he was part of it all. No one will buy into anyone , especially a president who is part of the criminal acts, can be able to pardon others also involved. That itself would open up a flood of more criminal acts they then could promote and get away free from.

[Buckeyeblue]

12. I think your right

It seems like recent filings have been very specific about tying the crime back to 45. He's not going to be able to pardon those crimes, because he would be pardoning himself.

[unblock]

18. I seriously doubt this Court would invalidate presidential pardons.

I would fully support a constitutional amendment to prevent a president from pardoning co-criminals, but there's no such language currently.

[MineralMan]

32. Overturned by whom? The Supreme court is bound by the Constitution.

That document makes Presidential pardons immune from being overturned. There is no Constitutional authority with the power to overturn a Presidential pardon. The only restrictions are that pardons are only for federal crimes and cannot be granted in cases involving impeachments. Beyond those, the Presidential pardon is unrestricted.

[Vinca]

13. But Pence has been brought up lately as one of the potential "indictees."

I doubt if President Pelosi will issue many pardons their way.

[unblock]

21. Pelosi is not becoming president out of all this. Forget it.

Outside of the obvious and obviously remote death scenario, she's not becoming president because republicans will never cooperate in handing over the White House to a Democrat.

They can always appoint and confirm a new republican veep in between getting rid of those two to prevent that.

[Vinca]

29. They might have no choice.

[unblock]

33. how on earth does that happen?

it's a long shot that they have no choice but to remove both donnie and pence, but let's say that actually happens.

how on earth would they feel they need to remove them both *within the same hour*, which is all the time it takes to appoint and confirm a new republican veep?

at a bare minimum, the public would have be be overwhelmingly convinced that hillary won the election and donnie stole it. not merely that hillary *would have* won the election had donnie not committed certain crimes, but that hillary *did* win the election, i.e., that votes were actually switched or destroyed or fraudulently miscounted or something like that.

but even that likely would not be enough for republicans in the senate to do the right thing. they're simply too power mad to hand over the white house to a democrat voluntarily.

[harumph]

15. The People will not accept this.

That is all.

[unblock]

22. The Republican Party would take a hit, but survive.

It survived Ford pardoning Nixon. One charismatic candidate later and they forgot they were the party of crooks.

[kentuck]

16. If that be the case...

...then perhaps it would be best to exercise the patience to turn over every rock and expose every lie until the truth is known.

[unblock]

23. Amen.

[LBM20]

20. That would wipe out their ENTIRE party.The public would backlash. Maybe would happen, but doubt it.

[unblock]

24. I wish. They're too brainwashed.

The msm would turn on them for a while, but foxnews would help them reinvent themselves. They'd still insist it was all a witch hunt, they were railroaded, etc., and 20% of the country would believe it.

[kacekwl]

25. I would hope the sane and maybe the insane among us

would not stand for this. If this doesn't neuter the Republican party for decades then I need to find another hobby possibly in another country.

[elocs]

26. Trump won't run for reelection, declaring his presidency the greatest in history.

Maybe Pence runs for and gets the nomination. The same thing could theoretically happen: Trump pardons, pardons, pardons, and then resigns before the end. Pence becomes president and pardons Trump. Now if Pence were to have won the general election he would at least have 1 term but if he lost, it makes no difference.

We would not like it but all we could do is cry in our beer.

But other than just pardons, imagine what Trump will do in his final months in office.

[Joe941]

27. They must go to jail or there will be riots.

[MineralMan]

31. No, there won't be riots.

That's not going to happen.

[pwb]

28. Huh?

I chose to leave imagination out of this mess.

[MineralMan]

30. You're probably correct in all of that.

However, since the Presidential pardon only applies to federal crimes, states can indict and convict any of them for state crimes. That may well come into play.