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Any thoughts on if PENCE KNEW? (Original Post) bluestarone Nov 2018 OP
Oh that would be too sweet mainstreetonce Nov 2018 #1
YEP maybe the top 20 REPUGS bluestarone Nov 2018 #2
Pence is in on all of it, up to his eyeballs. lagomorph777 Nov 2018 #45
Yep, these people operate like... LuckyCharms Nov 2018 #3
Right. Pence is the visible head of a power center, Hortensis Nov 2018 #22
His handling of Mike Flynn opens the door to his knowledge of everything. Eyeball_Kid Nov 2018 #59
Worse, I believe Pence combines genuine religious zealotry with Hortensis Nov 2018 #64
I forgot who... nycbos Nov 2018 #4
Your answer right here: kysrsoze Nov 2018 #5
YEP sure is!!! bluestarone Nov 2018 #8
+1 dalton99a Nov 2018 #39
Pence was Manafart's idea. So yeah, he knows all of it. Hassler Nov 2018 #6
I think Pence Lindsay Nov 2018 #7
There is a Russia - Pence connection OAITW r.2.0 Nov 2018 #55
He's up to his Albino eyebrows in it.... LW1977 Nov 2018 #9
Rachel did some shows some time ago Jarqui Nov 2018 #10
oh i can only hope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bluestarone Nov 2018 #11
Browse some of these stories Jarqui Nov 2018 #19
Thank you! Duppers Nov 2018 #44
Well he did visit with the Ecuadorian president about Assange recently ffr Nov 2018 #12
RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bluestarone Nov 2018 #13
He will be gone shortly after he pardon's Wellstone ruled Nov 2018 #14
I think Ryan and McTurtle were in it up to thier necks too nt doc03 Nov 2018 #15
ABSOLUTELY bluestarone Nov 2018 #16
It has been reported leftieNanner Nov 2018 #18
Ryan hushed up Kevin McCarthy when he said he suspected Trump and Rohrabacher Tanuki Nov 2018 #29
I think a whole lot of them were more involved than anyone suspected (far more then we ... SWBTATTReg Nov 2018 #17
And Nunes. Vinca Nov 2018 #20
OH THIS i'm really wanting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bluestarone Nov 2018 #23
The Motherlodestar Blue Owl Nov 2018 #21
Here are my thoughts on Pence knew DFW Nov 2018 #24
OH yea bluestarone Nov 2018 #25
Thank you for your thoughtful discussion. diva77 Nov 2018 #42
Or he didn't want to know and that's even worse uponit7771 Nov 2018 #26
YEP!! bluestarone Nov 2018 #27
Wow. Pelosi could be the next Pres rickford66 Nov 2018 #28
THIS possible?? bluestarone Nov 2018 #32
If there's two impeachments and convictions .... rickford66 Nov 2018 #35
No way will the Senate vote to convict unless there is a Republican next in line Polybius Nov 2018 #58
Notice I said fantasy. rickford66 Nov 2018 #61
Because they would not be simultaneously convicted. MichMary Nov 2018 #66
Pence couldn't nominate anyone. Congress appoints as in the past. rickford66 Nov 2018 #67
Section 2 of the 25th Amendment MichMary Nov 2018 #68
I was going by memory. I apologize. You are correct. rickford66 Nov 2018 #70
It was my senior year of high school MichMary Nov 2018 #71
I often ask people who Ford's VP was. rickford66 Nov 2018 #72
They would never be impeached and convicted at the same time Polybius Dec 2018 #74
About as possible as world peace. Pubs will never ever vote to surrender the Presidency Amishman Nov 2018 #43
Easy peasey, saidsimplesimon Nov 2018 #30
IF he knew? Cracklin Charlie Nov 2018 #31
He's cooked!!! bluestarone Nov 2018 #34
Of course volstork Nov 2018 #33
I'm 100% with you. . . . BigDemVoter Nov 2018 #36
The phrase I have heard is Bettie Nov 2018 #37
There's a Reason Manafort Chose Pence for Vice President dlk Nov 2018 #38
Yep he knew. triron Nov 2018 #40
Maybe with this mess ALL pardons could be stopped? bluestarone Nov 2018 #41
I'd put money on it too! ananda Nov 2018 #46
He knew and he will either go down with Trump or strike a sealed deal. allgood33 Nov 2018 #47
The truth about Mike Pence is... Chiyo-chichi Nov 2018 #48
LOL! smirkymonkey Nov 2018 #49
There's No Way He COULDN'T Have Known ChoppinBroccoli Nov 2018 #50
GOP should change it's name to OCP OAITW r.2.0 Nov 2018 #51
Of course... Mike Nelson Nov 2018 #52
Agree bluestarone Nov 2018 #54
K & R MFGsunny Nov 2018 #53
Welcome to this great site bluestarone Nov 2018 #56
Of course he did! redstatebluegirl Nov 2018 #57
Get this straight. It's not just Pence. It's the whole frigging GOP. This was a Coup d'Etat KPN Nov 2018 #60
Great post and bluestarone Nov 2018 #62
Everyone knew samplegirl Nov 2018 #63
We are having a hard enough time Bayard Nov 2018 #65
That Psalm-Singing Motherfucker Knew ALL of it. . . BigDemVoter Nov 2018 #69
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Bwa-ha-ha. The Mueller Knows..... Hekate Nov 2018 #73
Pence was handpicked by Manafort and peggysue2 Dec 2018 #75
He knew dflprincess Dec 2018 #76
Pence is the controller. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #77

LuckyCharms

(17,610 posts)
3. Yep, these people operate like...
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 05:56 PM
Nov 2018

no one talks to each other, and everything happens in a vacuum. Things just do not work that way in real life.

They play the public for fools.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
22. Right. Pence is the visible head of a power center,
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 06:35 PM
Nov 2018

and information is power. I don't believe he's presidential-smarts material, but nor is he stupid. The question isn't what he knew but what can be proven he knew, or perhaps just what might cause a critical loss of public confidence in his innocence.

Eyeball_Kid

(7,467 posts)
59. His handling of Mike Flynn opens the door to his knowledge of everything.
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 11:09 AM
Nov 2018

Pence is a phony. His pious persona is paper thin. At heart, he's an amoral power hungry monster who was caught approving of Flynn's access to classified information when he KNEW that Flynn was a foreign agent. And he did so because it's what HE wanted, and what Trumpy wanted. So Pence is, IMO, a target who will be indicted.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
64. Worse, I believe Pence combines genuine religious zealotry with
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 11:40 AM
Nov 2018

a belief in the need of the people for the stability provided by strong ruling classes and authoritarian government. Serving god through business and dutiful people, a born natural fascist, and of course highly immoral -- he doesn't know it though. Same for Romney. The right's elevating a pack of them in this era, no coincidence.

Mueller hasn't interviewed Pence yet... Hope, hope. We think we know about Flynn, but what else? Pence was active and in the middle of everything through much of the campaign and transition eras, and of course now.

When I spoke of info and power, I was thinking that powerful people and their groups spend a lot of money and effort gathering information about everything that might affect them -- while presumably trying to maintain plausible deniability. All those in the Republican Party leadership, and among most of their big, dark-money donors, like the Koch alliance of hundreds of extremely wealthy people (themselves all power centers) have to know a great deal that we don't.

But it absolutely would have been the business of Pence and his backers, who include the Kochs, to know.

nycbos

(6,061 posts)
4. I forgot who...
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 05:57 PM
Nov 2018

... but someone said "Pence is smart enough to get up and leave the room when Russia is mentioned"

Lindsay

(3,276 posts)
7. I think Pence
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 05:58 PM
Nov 2018

doesn't know much of anything about anything.

But I can't forget that it was Manafort who manipulated Trump into choosing Pence. There's gotta be a reason for that, and it can't be an innocent one, not from Manafort.

OAITW r.2.0

(25,227 posts)
55. There is a Russia - Pence connection
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 10:48 AM
Nov 2018

His brother was a lobbyist(?) or Exec for Cummins Diesel engines. He was very much involved with export of engines and Russia was a big customer.

Jarqui

(10,150 posts)
10. Rachel did some shows some time ago
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 06:08 PM
Nov 2018

that establish some slippery stuff about Pence during the transition involving Flynn

ffr

(22,713 posts)
12. Well he did visit with the Ecuadorian president about Assange recently
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 06:10 PM
Nov 2018

if that's what you mean.

I think the official line was that they were talking finance. But the Assange WikiLeaks news timing is uncomfortably coincidental for Pence, if you ask me. Plus, he has a Mike Flynn problem.

Let's hope Mueller's final report doesn't come out until 2019, just in case.

Tanuki

(14,957 posts)
29. Ryan hushed up Kevin McCarthy when he said he suspected Trump and Rohrabacher
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 06:43 PM
Nov 2018

were Kremlin stooges,, insisting that they keep what he just said "in the family."

SWBTATTReg

(22,556 posts)
17. I think a whole lot of them were more involved than anyone suspected (far more then we ...
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 06:29 PM
Nov 2018

anticipated)...makes sense, you got everyone supposedly going in one direction under rump during the campaign in 2016. rump is not intelligent enough to pull in all of the strings so even though he knew of the 'collusion' he wasn't sharp enough (or running his mouth as he usually does would have ruined things, so the Russians picked someone else to run the whole thing).

Vinca

(50,409 posts)
20. And Nunes.
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 06:32 PM
Nov 2018

We're going to need a whole, new wing at a federal prison. It should be called the Robert Swan Mueller III Correctional Facility.

rickford66

(5,548 posts)
35. If there's two impeachments and convictions ....
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 07:04 PM
Nov 2018

the Speaker of the House becomes President. It could happen. I won't bet on it though. Just a fantasy.

Polybius

(15,735 posts)
58. No way will the Senate vote to convict unless there is a Republican next in line
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 10:55 AM
Nov 2018

If the evidence is overwhelming on both, they will convict and remove Trump, but insist that the House confirms President Pence's VP pick first before they remove him. Probably Mitt Romney.

rickford66

(5,548 posts)
61. Notice I said fantasy.
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 11:12 AM
Nov 2018

It's possible but not probable. And why would Pence get to choose a VP if both he and
Trump were convicted at the same time ? If Pence became president, he wouldn't pick his VP. Nixon didn't choose his VP when Agnew quit. I believe Congress agreed somehow. And Congress somehow picked Ford's VP (Rocky). But in the end, your scenario would be more likely.

MichMary

(1,714 posts)
66. Because they would not be simultaneously convicted.
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 02:07 PM
Nov 2018

Won't happen.

If Pence is prez for even five minutes after Trumpy gets the boot, he gets to nominate a new VP.

The Senate is still in R hands, and will confirm anyone Pence nominates.

rickford66

(5,548 posts)
67. Pence couldn't nominate anyone. Congress appoints as in the past.
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 07:00 PM
Nov 2018

Nixon didn't nominate Ford and Ford didn't nominate Rocky. He may prefer someone but Congress decides.

MichMary

(1,714 posts)
68. Section 2 of the 25th Amendment
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 07:05 PM
Nov 2018

Section 2.
Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

Nixon did nominate Ford.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Gerald_Ford#Accession

MichMary

(1,714 posts)
71. It was my senior year of high school
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 07:13 PM
Nov 2018

We studied it intensely.

Don't know what would happen if the House refused to confirm an R VP nomination. I suspect they would have to come up with a nominee that would be a compromise.

Polybius

(15,735 posts)
74. They would never be impeached and convicted at the same time
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 02:09 PM
Dec 2018

If anything, there would be two separate trails and after Trump was removed (or steps down), President Pence picks a VP that must be confirmed.

When Agnew quit, Nixon did indeed send the nominee (Ford) to Congress for approval. The President picks whoever he wants, but is subject to approval from Congress. Ford was well-respected on both sides, and was easily confirmed. Once Ford became President, he nominated his own VP, who was also easily confirmed. I'd expect Pence to nominate someone non-controversial, although these days it won't be easy to find a well-liked Republican anywhere. Probably Romney would get chosen, and confirmed fairly easily.

Amishman

(5,571 posts)
43. About as possible as world peace. Pubs will never ever vote to surrender the Presidency
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 07:50 PM
Nov 2018

Doesn't matter what evidence is found or how horrible their crimes, they will never hand us the White House early.

Cracklin Charlie

(12,904 posts)
31. IF he knew?
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 06:44 PM
Nov 2018

They told him (Elijah Cummings, Sally Yates), and he did nothing.

At that point, whether he knew or not doesn’t matter.

He knew, because they told him, and he did either nothing, or furthered the cover up. Busted.

BigDemVoter

(4,169 posts)
36. I'm 100% with you. . . .
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 07:07 PM
Nov 2018

I bet that stupid, fucking Bible thumper knew EVERYTHING about it. What a goddamned waste of space. . . . .

dlk

(11,708 posts)
38. There's a Reason Manafort Chose Pence for Vice President
Thu Nov 29, 2018, 07:28 PM
Nov 2018

Keeping a low profile won't make a difference. I would bet Mueller has evidence of the entire conspiracy.

ChoppinBroccoli

(3,795 posts)
50. There's No Way He COULDN'T Have Known
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 10:41 AM
Nov 2018

When Trump wanted to pick somebody else as his running mate, it was Manafort who told him to pick Pence, a guy he'd never met before. Pence was the head of the transition team. He signed off on EVERYTHING Flynn and Manafort did. If Pence didn't specifically authorize all their Russian contacts, then he certainly knew about them. And if he claims to not know what they were doing, he has to be the dumbest, most incompetent leader of all time. Either way, he was either in on it or he's so dumb and incompetent that he's unfit to run the Slurpee machine at 7-11, let alone the country.

redstatebluegirl

(12,265 posts)
57. Of course he did!
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 10:52 AM
Nov 2018

He is a slimy snake in the grass. Notice how absent he has been lately? He is hiding out waiting for what "God has promised him" the presidency.

KPN

(15,731 posts)
60. Get this straight. It's not just Pence. It's the whole frigging GOP. This was a Coup d'Etat
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 11:11 AM
Nov 2018

carried out by the GOP with the intentionally obtained aid and abetment of a foreign power.

This was a treasonous act of the highest order.

bluestarone

(17,387 posts)
62. Great post and
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 11:13 AM
Nov 2018

Man do i FULLY AGREE!!!!!! These bastards were ready to give our country away!!!!!! NO DOUBT IN MY MIND!!!!!

Bayard

(22,597 posts)
65. We are having a hard enough time
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 12:36 PM
Nov 2018

Getting tRump dislodged from the White House, even with his blatant crimes. The Senate will never toss Pence. Yertle and Ryan would be pure fantasy.

Hekate

(91,687 posts)
73. Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Bwa-ha-ha. The Mueller Knows.....
Fri Nov 30, 2018, 11:06 PM
Nov 2018

Tip of the hat to The Shadow.

peggysue2

(10,948 posts)
75. Pence was handpicked by Manafort and
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 02:16 PM
Dec 2018

he headed the Transition Team. He knew everything. He went along to get close to the WH, fulfill his God-given ambition to transform the country into a theocratic nightmare. He was willing to ride the Trumpster's coat tails to accomplish that.

He knew EVERYTHING.

dflprincess

(28,140 posts)
76. He knew
Sat Dec 1, 2018, 02:22 PM
Dec 2018

And my biggest fear is the Republicans will pressure both Trump and Pence to resign before January 3rd which would make Ryan president.

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