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(19,986 posts)triron
(22,030 posts)OnDoutside
(19,986 posts)hugely to her credibility. From what we've seen of Avenatti, he's usually up front with evidence but this time he hasn't done so. Between that and watching Julie Swetnick's interview, I'm not sure yet. All that said, it is entirely suspicious that she is the ONLY one of the 3 who the WH stopped the FBI from interviewing. That certainly adds weight to the other side. I hope Avenatti drops a bombshell in time to turn that around.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)OnDoutside
(19,986 posts)1. We're used to Avenatti releasing some damaging evidence, but there really was nothing backing this accuser, up front.
2. I found Ms Swetnick's demeanour to be almost offhand, especially compared to Dr Ford...it didn't seem right.
3. The witnesses she provided, 1 is deceased, 1 says they don't known her and 2 they can't find.
On the plus side, she has security clearances.
avebury
(10,953 posts)did go to the police within a short period after the incident.
OnDoutside
(19,986 posts)DeminPennswoods
(15,294 posts)are now deceased. The MD police have said it would take weeks to locate any police report, but that's different from saying they have no report.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,976 posts)she can't connect what happened to her with Kavanaugh in particular. She said he was there but she doesn't know whether he was one of the men who assaulted her. I don't think she's the best witness they have.
babylonsister
(171,109 posts)jezebel321
(278 posts)Certainly not in the way Dr. Ford was.
avebury
(10,953 posts)report that might impact how people view her story.
wishstar
(5,272 posts)and policemen who allegedly took report is deceased.
FBaggins
(26,783 posts)I'm not sure that he actually believes his client.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,976 posts)And her allegations relate to parties she and K attended, but in the interview she backed off on that claim in her statement that K and Judge were spiking the punch. She said only that K was often standing near the punchbowl but did not see him actually do it. It's just a bit too vague.
FBaggins
(26,783 posts)Since her original statement was supposedly a declaration under penalty of perjury.
It's just a bit too vague.
It's also very difficult to imagine a college sophomore showing up for multiple high school parties where she witnesses gang rapes... only to keep going back to the parties... then to become a victim herself... yet continue to attend. I can't think of anyone that I've ever known who would do such a thing. On edit - she reportedly now claims that she never went back after being a victim herself (a slightly less unbelievable story) - BUT her original statement was that she attended "well over" ten parties from 1981-1983 and was herself attacked in 1982.
Then... of course... there's the NBC note that she gave them four names who could corroborate her story. One denies knowing her at all.. one is dead... the other two have not been reached. On edit - apparently, the police officer that she says she reported the attack to is also dead.
john657
(1,058 posts)I'm starting to see a pattern here with Swetnick.
FBaggins
(26,783 posts)Awfully convenient.
john657
(1,058 posts)DeminPennswoods
(15,294 posts)witnesses have died. She's 53 or so and we don't know how old the cop was who took the report.
FBaggins
(26,783 posts)What does it mean when an attorney allows his client to name supporting witnesses that turn out not to back up the client's story?
It means that he didn't vet them himself - and I can think of only two reasons why that would occur. Either incompetence or he doesn't believe her and is actively avoiding knowing that for certain.
DeminPennswoods
(15,294 posts)because they are now dead and can't contradict anything. So far, we have two people who Sweatnik said she told who are now dead. We have 1 witness who says they can't recall or doesn't remember her. Two other witnesses were contacted by NBC and did not respond for unknown reasons. By my count, that is exactly 1 witness who denies knowing anything and we don't know if that's a truthful statement or not.
IMHO, you have jumped to an unwarranted conclusion.
john657
(1,058 posts)the cop, her mother and 1 of the four witnesses she named.
Starting to see a pattern here?
Plus, during her interview, she backed off of some of her claims about Kav and Judge, her credibility, IMHO, has taken a big hit.
FBaggins
(26,783 posts)I didn't say that she gave out names that she knew were dead (only her mother clearly falls into that category). She gave NBC the names of four people that she said could back up her story (plus the police officer and her mother). Obviously her attorney did not contact at least two of the four to confirm. The question is why?
An attorney cannot knowingly allow his client to testify falsely (R.P.C. 3.3). But if he doesn't know that she's lying (he just doesn't believe her)?
still_one
(92,502 posts)madaboutharry
(40,245 posts)is that she didn't go to prep school and she didn't go to Yale. She isn't of the same social and economic social standing as the other people in this story.
It shouldn't matter, but we all know that is how it is.
What should matter is whether she is telling the truth. If there is a police report that places her at one of these house parties that will go a long way to establish her credibility.
nocoincidences
(2,236 posts)modest way that Blasey Ford presented herself.
That means she will not be believable to Rethug politicians who expect women to be more like Dr. Ford.
Dr. Ford was very credible, in her own way, but this woman is too forthright for the men who are judging her.
Gothmog
(145,839 posts)MLAA
(17,369 posts)He would not have said that if she hasnt already passed one (In my opinion)
madaboutharry
(40,245 posts)Calista241
(5,586 posts)They're both treating this as a marketing campaign (you do this, and then i'll do what I promised), and not as a real accusation in the traditions of the #metoo movement.
Cetacea
(7,367 posts)"Swetnick has held multiple security clearances in her career, including those with the Department of State, the Department of Justice (DOJ), the Department of Homeland Security and U.S. Customs and Border Protection, according to the New York Post.
She also claimed in a sworn affidavit sent to the Senate Judiciary Committee that she maintains active clearances with the Department of Treasury, the U.S. Mint, and the Internal Revenue Service..."
https://www.lifezette.com/2018/09/who-is-julie-swetnick-really-seven-things-you-must-know/
marked50
(1,373 posts)Just a theory. Although her claims may be legitimate, based upon all the concerns about her testimony (as shown here in this OP responses) could it not be believable that she may be a false flag designed to destroy the credibility of other accusers and as a bonus Avenatti at the same time?
madaboutharry
(40,245 posts)That would be a really bad development. But I think Avenatti is too good a lawyer for that to happen. If she can not establish her credibility, It doesnt change what we already know. However, it would do great damage to Avenatti.
marked50
(1,373 posts)remember that Dan Rather was caught up in what many believe was a "forged" document and he resigned in response. These tactics are not uncommonly used by the right wing- Karl Rove/Lee Atwater. They have no scruples or morality and that fact is something that is difficult for liberals to understand because those qualities are strong in the tool boxes of liberals. Agree that her testimony (credible or not) really doesn't change what we already know.
edited to clarify liberals distinctly have morals and scruples.
triron
(22,030 posts)Charlotte Little
(658 posts)While I have no doubt Swetnick was raped in college, she is not the least bit credible when it comes to Kavanaugh and Judge. I was hoping she was a Dr. Ford on steroids, but she's a limp balloon. I'm sorry if that is harsh, but it needs to be said.
Anyone hanging his/her hat on this doorknob needs to walk on out. She and Avenatti, in particular, are not helping. In fact, I'm finally agreeing with many on Twitter - this is harmful and a distraction.
Avenatti has got to go. He is not a Mueller. He's a phony. The sooner the left accepts that, the sooner they will move on to more important and credible issues we're facing. Avenatti has now become equal to Louis Mensch and her ilk as far as I'm concerned. Very disappointing, might I add.
madaboutharry
(40,245 posts)It is wearing the whole country down.
FBaggins
(26,783 posts)but he certainly isn't helping Ford at this point.
My personal favorite was when he tried to pump up his client's credibility by pointing out all the dozens of women who had come forward against Kavanaugh who he refused to represent because they weren't credible.
DeminPennswoods
(15,294 posts)She never directly accuses Kavanaugh or Judge of assaulting her or anyone else. She merely places them at the scene with the opportunity and drunken comportment to commit sexual assault. Finding any police report would bolster her case of being a victim.
I think her most useful statements are of Kavanaugh's behavior that buttress the other claims of him being obnoxious and sexually aggressive when drunk.
I do think that whatever happened at these house parties, happened away from the main party in more isolated places like upstairs or back bedrooms where inebriated party-goers weren't necessarily going to pay that much attention to others standing around outside a door or ask what was happening.
Avenatti has said that some facts support her story and some don't. She said that she went to Avenatti because a law school classmate of his that she knows recommended him. I think he knows this isn't a slam dunk case because he's not all over the media with it, but he's doing his best to represent her interests.
FBaggins
(26,783 posts)She said that she saw them spike the punch with grain alcohol and/or drugs... and that those were efforts to cause girls to be drunk/disoriented "so they could be gang raped"... and that she saw him "target" girls to be raped.
That's not nearly "carefully" worded enough to avoid conflict with what she now says.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,976 posts)didn't see them actually putting anything in the punch. She's probably telling the truth but as to some points her statements are too vague to do much with.
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)She claims to have been present at several, maybe up to 10 of these "parties" where guys were drugging girls and then lining up to take their turns in a gang rape and ultimately she wound up being the subject of same. Think about that for a minute.
Why on Earth did she keep going to these "parties" if she knew that was going on?
I've not been comfortable with her story from the beginning. I understand that people have different responses to things that happen and not everyone would react the way that I would (and did) (and no, it wasn't gang rape in my case, for the record), but I have a lot of trouble believing that as many as 10 young women were systematically and routinely drugged and gang raped at parties and none of them went to the police or told their parents or were sufficiently traumatized at the time that friends and/or family noticed a change in demeanor or behavior and took some action to get to the bottom of it.
I can't and won't say that I don't think that something happened to her somewhere some time, but I'm just not buying her Kavanaugh story. It just doesn't add up for me.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,976 posts)because she knew it was spiked, but then at one party she ended up drugged anyhow, and was then raped by multiple men. If she was intentionally avoiding the punch, how was she drugged? It's certainly possible that something (Qaaludes?) could have been dropped into her glass but I wish that question had been asked. Her account might be stronger if she had reason to believe someone had spiked her drink with the intention of targeting her. I do believe something probably happened to her but I wish she had more specific information.
WillowTree
(5,325 posts).......she supposedly knew all of this was going on and told no one but continued to attend these dreadful gatherings. It just doesn't smell right.
SharonAnn
(13,781 posts)Until it happened to her.
WillowTree
(5,325 posts)....and that's why she wouldn't take beverages in the red cups from the guys. What did she think the motive was for getting the girls drunk? And was she so lacking in curiosity that she never asked anyone what was up with the guys, who were trying to get girls drunk surreptitiously and then always hanging around the hallways? OK. I guess.
Look, you're more than free to believe what sounds believable to you and I'm free to question what sounds questionable to me. It all works out well that way.