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(14,521 posts)
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 04:59 AM Aug 2018

Trump's Splashy New NAFTA Deal Doesn't Actually Exist - Vanity Fair

Trump’s Splashy New NAFTA Deal Doesn’t Actually Exist
Despite the president’s threats to be ditching Canada, lawmakers say the move is likely illegal, if not impossible.
by Tina Nguyen
August 27, 2018

See: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/08/trumps-splashy-new-nafta-deal (limited free access)

Mexico's President Nieto diplomatically put Trump in his place.....
Of course, Trump’s understanding of the “understanding”—as well as his blustery, nebulous threat against Canada—was about as artful as his attempt to stage a dramatic conference call. Nieto repeatedly insisted, both on Twitter and to Trump himself, that any renegotiation of NAFTA, regardless of its name, must be a three-party deal. Indeed, lawmakers told The New York Times that Trump’s willingness to ditch Canada “may not be legally permissible, let alone smart.”

Apparently Trump's cabinet wants to disassemble every trade deal, peace deal and nuclear arms deals the US has every created and start from scratch. This is all for the benefit of the hard-right free market billionaire globalists that put him in office. They want small, limited-commitment bilateral deals that can be manipulated on a whim.

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Trump's Splashy New NAFTA Deal Doesn't Actually Exist - Vanity Fair (Original Post) KY_EnviroGuy Aug 2018 OP
Its a treaty, where's the Senate. Historic NY Aug 2018 #1
He has the legal power to do it James48 Aug 2018 #6
Thanks, very informative. KY_EnviroGuy Aug 2018 #10
Finally someone said it. And where is the rest of the press on this? And why is there only Squinch Aug 2018 #2
The M$M is complicit watoos Aug 2018 #4
It sure did look like a charade to me PatSeg Aug 2018 #3
I'm with you, PatSeg. I thought treaties were carved in stone. KY_EnviroGuy Aug 2018 #12
Until Trump, PatSeg Aug 2018 #15
Hope we never see this convoluted degree of crazy ever again. KY_EnviroGuy Aug 2018 #16
This is quite unlike anything I've ever seen PatSeg Aug 2018 #17
Trudeau won't budge unless we overturn right to work laws Recursion Aug 2018 #5
I'm afraid that he doesn't have much leverage FBaggins Aug 2018 #8
My guess with Canada is... KY_EnviroGuy Aug 2018 #14
Don needed a ceremony yesterday. Anything. Funny all he did was make an ass of himself. Vinca Aug 2018 #7
Kinda like the North Korean deal. panader0 Aug 2018 #9
K&R UTUSN Aug 2018 #11
"It's really just the thought that counts, isn't it?" struggle4progress Aug 2018 #13


(14,521 posts)
10. Thanks, very informative.
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 10:46 AM
Aug 2018


The argument that congressional assent is needed to terminate NAFTA would be persuasive if the 103rd Congress had had the foresight to insert such language when it enacted implementing legislation. But back in 1993, when NAFTA implementation was ratified, no one thought that NAFTA’s future would be hanging by a thread in 2017.

No one back then thought we could possibly have a narcissistic mob boss as president, either.....


(51,220 posts)
2. Finally someone said it. And where is the rest of the press on this? And why is there only
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 06:42 AM
Aug 2018

one outlet reporting that we are now WORSE off with North Korea than we were when we started, and we gave up a good ally for the privilege of being taken to the cleaners by Kim?



(7,142 posts)
4. The M$M is complicit
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 07:24 AM
Aug 2018

The elites who own cable news control the narrative, yes, including msnbc. msnbc has a couple of anchors who stray from the narrative but I remember history, and those who strayed too far, starting with Phil Donahue, got canned. Donahue was anti Iraq war, Tweety was pro war, guess who stayed and who got canned?


(48,447 posts)
3. It sure did look like a charade to me
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 07:12 AM
Aug 2018

I don't know a lot about treaties, but the president just SAYING something at a press conference doesn't make it so.

A little theatrical distraction as John McCain had the nerve to go and die, stealing Trump's thunder and making him look bad in the process.


(14,521 posts)
12. I'm with you, PatSeg. I thought treaties were carved in stone.
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 11:41 AM
Aug 2018

See Post #6 link, above - provides a good summary on treaties. Much of my thinking on government functions and agreements are based on observing diplomacy, tradition and decorum through several presidents. Apparently, all that's out the window with the Trump Administration. On a positive note, I hope down the road Congress starts doing its job and tips the scales back away from the executive. Obviously, that won't happen with this Congress unless the public massively revolts.

One thing is quite clear from that article from Peterson Institute: a president does not have the power to do anything to this treaty by simple dictate as he like to imply. As you said - theatrics for his base. As an example, the "huge problem" he implies regarding dairy trade with Canada is 100% bullshit.

There appears to be provisions included for making changes by any signatory nation, and it contains required negotiations and appropriate time delays.


(48,447 posts)
15. Until Trump,
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 03:53 PM
Aug 2018

there were so many things that I thought were rather written in stone or actual laws. Come to find out there is so much we take for granted that actually is protocol or tradition and no one actually believed a president would toss it out the window based on a whim or a mood.

As it was all happening, I also could picture a future congress making efforts to transform long established traditions into laws that could weaken the executive branch.

Meanwhile, we have a president who treats every day in office like a reality TV show, with a very sketchy script and a lot of spontaneous improvisation.


(14,521 posts)
16. Hope we never see this convoluted degree of crazy ever again.
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 08:40 PM
Aug 2018

I kept saying during the Republican primary:

* the Republican party will surely disqualify him. They didn't.
* there's no way in hell they'll nominate him. They did.

Now, I'm saying I hope they've learned their lesson. Not optimistic on that one either.

Years ago, once I realized the Republican party was (and still is, IMO) 100% about supporting corporate interests, a lot of things started making sense. In order to reach my epiphany, I had to look at their legislative record a bit. Then, I could see that everything else they say is emotional fluff to get votes (patriotism, religion, guns, etc.).

Nixon's years were a confusing time because he was a master of distraction from the legislative work they were doing, and he got Agnew to execute the dirtiest trickery out on the road for him. Trump does not give a shit and just does most of it himself. Still, he suits their needs quite well.



(48,447 posts)
17. This is quite unlike anything I've ever seen
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 09:01 PM
Aug 2018

Didn't think anything could ever be worse than Watergate.

I couldn't ever relate much to republicans, mostly because of the excessive flag waving patriotism and resistance to change. My interest in politics was superficial and sporadic until GW Bush. It was then that like you, I started to see that republicans were the party of corporations and big business. They only paid lip service to principles and morality. You couldn't believe anything they said, as they would do or say anything to achieve their objectives and they were always for sale.

You know, as bad as they are as a party, I never thought they would go this low. Apparently there really is no line they won't cross, no depth that is too low.

I don't think they learned their lesson. I think they need to go and if there are any real conservatives left out there, they need to build a new party from scratch and in the meantime, congress has to get corporate money out of politics once and for all. Of course, people have been saying that for a long time, so I'm not sure I'll see it in my lifetime.


(56,582 posts)
5. Trudeau won't budge unless we overturn right to work laws
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 07:35 AM
Aug 2018

This whole thing is just windmill-jousting, frankly.


(27,004 posts)
8. I'm afraid that he doesn't have much leverage
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 08:23 AM
Aug 2018

Canada appears to be stuck between a bad deal and no deal, and they can’t handle “no deal”


(14,521 posts)
14. My guess with Canada is...
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 12:02 PM
Aug 2018

their ace in the hole is timber, as in basic items for home construction. Quite crucial for our economy, like imported steel.

Neither Trump or his Repug congress can shit massive new timber forests no more than they can shit dozens of new steel mills and sources of ore.

I would really like to see our general public be better informed on these trade balance issues. Unfortunately, most don't seem to care so long as they can often fill their cart with new stuff at Walmart.



(25,816 posts)
9. Kinda like the North Korean deal.
Tue Aug 28, 2018, 08:46 AM
Aug 2018

This idiot couldn't negotiate himself out of a paper bag.
Tired of winning......

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