DON'T IMPEACH TRUMP!

[mia]

Last edited Sat Aug 25, 2018, 09:30 AM - Edit history (1)

Permission to share from Dr. Marvin Dunn, a professor of Community Psychology in Miami, FL.

DON’T IMPEACH TRUMP!
(Dr. Marvin Dunn, Progressive Democrat, Florida)

It would be a great mistake for Democrats to try to impeach Trump. This vulgar, racist, ignorant, immoral, lying president should be turned out of office by the vote of the American people in 2020. As the dark and dangerous clouds of the Trump era engulf our nation, it may seem as if we cannot survive this nightmare. But we can. And we will.

America is stronger than any one president. If Trump is impeached, the aftermath will be a deeply divided, bitter and bloodied nation unlike any era since the Civil War. The myth of the “deep state” will haunt us for centuries. There would be no winners, even if impeachment sent him back to the snake pit that is Trump Tower.

Democrats should resist the temptation to go for the jugular. If we run this November on an “impeach Trump” agenda, we would be embarking on a path that would turn out his political base causing us to lose the opportunity to take back the House of Representatives, if not also the Senate. The mid-term election would be the kind of dirty, name-calling, low-life political dog fight in which Trump thrives.

Here is what we should do.

Reconnect with working class white Americans who at heart, are Democrats. In our deserved euphoria during the Obama era, we did leave them behind. We did leave them vulnerable to being usurped by extremist, right-wing hate mongers who falsely claim to be their voice, when in fact, they are the voice of hatred, divisiveness, isolationism, and of bloated, super-rich, tax evading corporations.

We Democrats must give Americans something in which to believe; universal health care, a reduction in gun violence, a college education for all who wish to and who are qualified to pursue that goal, fair and growing wages, respect for and acceptance of sexual diversity, a clean environment, a woman’s right to choose, membership in the community of nations that has kept the world safe since the Second World War, and most important, a sense of us as a national community with room for all, even, if not especially for, immigrants.

We Democrats must develop positive messages that will lead America back to our status as the most envied nation on earth. As we begin that journal in unity this November, we can endure two more years of having even a fool in the White House. Don’t impeach Trump. Whatever the Special Counsel uncovers, let the American people, not impeachment, relieve us of this national nightmare.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1861256373960205&set=a.752979521454568&type=3&theater


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[2naSalit]

1. Good argument there...nt

[lame54]

2. Doing nothing is a shitty plan

[mia]

3. Connecting voters with values that matter to them is hardly "doing nothing."

Impeachment efforts are likely to be futile.

[meadowlander]

11. No reason why we can't do both.

[shanny]

23. There are 67 reasons why we can't do both

That's the number of votes necessary in the Senate to boot his flabby orange ass out of office. Whatever happens in the elections this fall we won't have that many Democrats and no way will the Rs flip on their base.

[lame54]

19. Nothing in this article suggests...

Any radical new thinking
These are things that are currently happening
And happened during the 2016 election
Unless he adds something new to the plate it is business as usual
Waiting around for them to cheat again is not a good plan
Besides if Trump loses in 2020 he ain't leaving
We'll have to throw him out which will result in the ill will he is so worried about
No point in letting him do 2 years more damage

[brush]

31. It's pretty well Dem concensus that we're not running on impeachment for the...

Nov. elections. Pelosi has already directed her caucus to not even talk about impeachment before the election. There's no sense in it anyway to begin proceedings in the House until we know 67 Senators are willing to side with that in the trial in the Senate. We're definitely not there yet.

And most of us here know impeachment talk might bring out even more of trump's deplorable, hardcore voters from under their rocks, and maybe even fire up those who are reeling in disgust from the latest indictments. No need to drive any of them back to trump.

And we've heard the argument through out the 2016 campaign about getting back white, working class trump voters. If some of them decide to ditch their tribalism and vote for their economic well being, fine, but to attract those racists we will have to enunciate policies that favor their right wing mindsets but will turn off our base and most of us ain't having it. We beat trump's ass in 2016 by 3m votes and now that everyone knows for sure that he's a criminal, forget catering to his racist base.

If they have any loyalty to the country and any decency they'll desert that traitor without us having to compromise our principles.

And btw, there are all kinds of online postings of buyers' remorse and trump regret, which has only deepened and gotten louder since the indictments, pleas and desperate grabs by former trump loyalists for immunity this week.

[peekaloo]

42. Thank you.

I was going to point out the 2/3 of the Senate necessary to flush this turd.

[Roland99]

4. Fine. No impeachment provided he faces criminal charges from NY State

[Atticus]

5. Yeah, let's keep our powder dry.until---you know----later! How much damage could

Trump do in just two more years?

[mia]

17. Trump will continue to do damage with every day that passes.

Impeachment hearings could slow him down, but, most likely, he will still remain in office.

[Roland99]

6. And trying to mend fences is impossible. This is why...

The Manafort juror who was a pure Trumpette said she’d still vote for Trump even after all that.

Blind to his crimes

[liberal N proud]

7. Too late...

this is a deeply divided, bitter and bloodied nation unlike any era since the Civil War compliments of trump.

The longer he is in office the closer we come to a failed democracy

[redstateblues]

27. It is not equally divided. Trump has less than 40%

[liberal N proud]

40. Still deeply divided

[Loki Liesmith]

8. Impeachment was created for this very reason

[AdamGG]

9. Long televised hearings that air all the dirty laundry

Should fuck the Republicans for 2020. There is so much corruption and criminality and obstruction and lies. Give it all a full hearing in a Democratic controlled House and Senate. It won't really matter if they can get 67 votes in the Senate to remove him; the damage should be done.

[babylonsister]

10. Evil should not stand. I hope we can multi-task. nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. If not impeached / resigned & if R candidate in 2020, would be total disaster for Republicons.

But I think he should be impeached when the first opportunity of conviction in the Senate arrives.

[JDC]

13. Disagree on forgetting impeachment, agree on giving Americans

What they need for a better life.

[meadowlander]

14. Why does the working class think Democrats left them behind?

Because after the Global Financial Crisis and eight years of GWB stripped their pensions, allowed health care costs to soar, sent their jobs overseas, took their house and their savings, the Democrats said "We need to move on. We don't need to prosecute the people who fucked you over and stole from you. We're going to play nice with the banks and the corporations and bail them out using your hard earned tax dollars and we're going to cave when they whine about more regulation and we're going to play nicey nice with the insurance industry and the Republicans over health care instead of going for single payer and we're going to play nicey nice with the Republicans over the charter schools and privatized standardized testing industry which are stripping money from your kids schools."

It's time for the Democrats to say "We're going to prosecute every single person who knowingly committed treason against this country, stole an American election, stoked racial hatred and division, split up families, stole money from the public purse, obstructed justice and then lied about it. When every single one of those motherfuckers is rotting in prison, then we're going to create jobs by rebuilding infrastructure, we're going to regulate the financial system properly, we're going to provide universal single payer healthcare and free college education and we're going to do something about gun violence."

Americans voted for hope and change in 2008 and the lesson they learned was that Democrats will walk away from what is right in the name of political expedience.

We're not going to win by being the party that refuses to do what is right and what obviously needs to be done because we're afraid of kicking the hornets nest on the right. The hornets are already swarming. It's time to bring in the fire hose.

[mia]

16. Well said!

Thank you!

[BlueWI]

22. +1000

This.

[EffieBlack]

36. White working people think they've been left behind because of race. Period.

If it was for the reasons you detail, black and brown folk would have walked away, too. But only white people felt agrieved enough to ditch the Democratic Party and latch on to Trump.

This is about racial resentment, pure and simple.

[Oneironaut]

15. This is already a bitterly divided nation of stupid people.

It's full of people who believe things like "Q-Anon," and "Pizza-gate." I seriously doubt we can "reach out" to them in any way. They aren't "Democrats at heart" - they're idiotic puppets who get their news from the Breitbart newsfeed on Facebook. They don't care about your working class message - they want to believe in crap like "the deep state" instead.

Hillary won the popular vote in 2016. We have enough people on our side to win elections. We don't need Trump's army of racist dimwits on our side.

Screw Trump. Impeach him.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

18. I'm Sorry, But Any Scenario That Doesn't End With Trump In Prison Is A Failure

He conspired with an enemy nation to undermine the American Electoral system. I don't think there's a more egregious crime any president could commit against his country. This whole, "let's be nice to him and hope he doesn't rig the NEXT election too" argument just REEKS of Neville Chamberlain.

Now sit back and look at all the destruction this piece of human garbage has caused in just 2 years. And you want to give him 2 MORE years to do even MORE damage? And hey, let's give him another 4 years after that while we're at it, because you somehow think he's going to NOT rig the next election too. This country will not only be unrecognizable after 8 years of Trump as president, but there might not even BE a country to save by then.

I say nuts to that. We tried the whole, "when they go low, we go high" thing. This is what it got us. It's time to drop the gloves. Someone asked recently if Trump offered to resign, would we agree to drop the investigations and prosecutions. My answer to that is a resounding HELL NO. This piece of human garbage committed the worst crime a president can commit, and if he doesn't end up in prison, then our system has failed us. I want Trump to suffer the way he's made this country suffer. I want him to literally lose everything that matters to him, and then I want his legacy to be wiped off the history books so he can't even salvage the ego trip that caused him to run for president in the first place. I want the Trump name to be so hated that people who have that name will change it to avoid the association (e.g. you never meet anyone, German or otherwise, with the last name Hitler).

[struggle4progress]

20. Depends. We shouldn't impeach presidents for purely political reasons. But serious and demonstrable

malfeasance can require something sooner than a national thumbs-down at the next presidential election

I don't think we should impeach him because he's a slimy sexist slob. But I think we can impeach him for deliberate violations of campaign laws

We might or might not want to impeach him for an incompetent and potentially dangerous foreign policy. But we should certainly impeach him if his campaign was illegally coordinating with a foreign power to influence election results -- and right now, it certainly looks like the campaign might have done that

I don't think we should necessarily impeach him for incompetence: the presidency is an almost impossibly difficult job for anyone, and probably no one has ever done as well in it as we need them to do. But the constitution must also us to impeach a president for gross incompetence, if we decide we really need to do so for the national good. We might reasonably tolerate getting stuck briefly in a muddy rut but we're not obliged to let him drive us over a cliff to drove in the river below

[BlueWI]

21. If conspiring with foreign powers to undermine an election

and payoffs for silence aren't impeachment worthy, why is impeachment a provision?

This is not the time to overthink ourselves into stasis and tolerance of blatantly obvious corruption and incompetence at a level never seen in the office of president.

Win a majority in the midterms, then impeach. This adds some public accountability to the ongoing investigations. Time to cut out the wishful thinking and face this ongoing political disaster. What other choice is there, really?

[Blue_true]

24. I agree with most.

The best choice for us is to have a bitter, weakened Trump limping into the 2020 election, with the vast majority of Americans loathing him. Incumbency won't help him at all.

If we go after him and create a shitstorm, that will only give fence sitters a reason to hold on to him.

The part of the opinion that I don't see is rising salaries. We are in a permanent era of income inequality for two reasons, the first is automation and the second is the worldwide portability of production. Those two factors won't be changing much, as a matter of fact, automation is only going to worsen the jobs situation. I will use a personal example. I was looking at a packaging and labeling machine, if people are used, 4-5 people would be needed, if the machine is used, 1 person (a minder in case the machine develops an issue) would be needed and there would be little to no rework - hard to justify using people other than to provide jobs in the hope that the workers also become customers - most large companies don't make that connection and just go with the machine.

[jcgoldie]

25. That paragraph about leaving white working class people behind under Obama is 100% bullshit

They support Trump because they are racists and they are scared not because they were "left behind" by democrats.

[EffieBlack]

37. THANK you

I'm sick of people making excuses for them.

[betsuni]

41. Yes, it is bullshit.

[dchill]

26. We really, really don't have that kind of time.

[Aristus]

28. I'm sorry, Dr. Dunn. I'm not sure I agree.

The plea to urge us to 'connect' with the white working-class pudknockers who voted for Trump has become passe.

They didn't vote for him because they felt economically disaffected. They don't feel left behind.

They voted for him because he "pisses off the liberals"

That's their only reason. They'll go to their squalid, putrid graves overjoyed that you were elevated to the White House over Hillary Clinton. None of them could tell you any substantive reason why they hated her so much. They only know that they had been told for thirty years to hate her, so they did. They refuse to get an education. They refuse to see that the world around them has become more inclusive of people who look different from them. They refuse to admit that any economic hardships they suffer are due to the people they vote for. They blame every minority in the country for their own suffering.

They're so far beyond 'connecting with', they may as well live on Pluto.

[LandOfHopeAndDreams]

29. It Will Again Take 8 Years Of A Democratic President

To undo all the damage done, and stabilize the country.

[Mike Nelson]

30. That is 50% correct...

… the latter half, of course. Of the impeachment part, there are not 67 votes to convict. If they become available, the country will expect impeachment and Democrats must respond accordingly. Then, they can forward the latter half!

[garybeck]

32. It's the economy stupid

If Trump is not impeached and the economy does ok good supporters will continue to support him regardless of what he did. He could win again in 2020.

[Laffy Kat]

33. I cannot abide the status quo. I just can't.

It's too embarrassing for the nation and too dangerous for the world.

[Iterate]

34. Smells like vodka

First of all, Democrats won't "decide" on impeachment and removal, it will come as a groundswell after investigations, coverage, and discussions.

Mainly though, I can't think of better immediate support for working class citizens than the removal of the trumpists -even, if not especially for, his white supporters. Because until they have shed their racist skins and accepted all citizens as equal, we will all be bound, like it or not, to their ignorance and hatred. And that process won't begin until they can see the horror of what they've done. Then they have to know, one way or another, that the rest of us are not going to put up with it.

Every time I read one of these "don't fight back" messages I get the creepy feeling of suddenly becoming an abuse victim. "Oooh careful, don't make him mad, he might..., they might..., you might...loose." Well fuck that.

Plus, anyone sure this Dr. Dunn isn't a putin troll? It sounds straight out of St. Petersburg.

[EffieBlack]

35. Again with the "we must reconnect with the poor neglected white working Americans" bullshit

Good Lord. White working people are the most catered to, coddled, covered, listened to, and chased after neglected people I've ever seen.

Here's another idea. Instead of chasing after white working people who abandoned the party and spit in the faces of black and brown people so they could vote for a racist charleton, let's stay true to our principles, continue to fight for equality, justice, opportunity, and the policies that benefit our base, which we will energize and expand. If those foolish white folk finally see the light and return to the fold, great. If they don't, they can stay right where they are, at the bottom of the heap and on the wrong side of the tracks and history. We'll be just fine without them.

But please, can we stop with the "if we were just nicer to working white people, we wouldn't be in this mess" crap?

[kentuck]

38. Congress can take the nuclear button out of his hand...

...and your idea might sound better?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

39. If Trump is impeached, we get President Pence.

From the frying pan to the fire.

[DemocraticSocialist8]

43. If we're talking about Trump committing one or more crimes and breaking the law..

then he should definitely be impeached. I don't think there's any good argument against impeachment. The one people keep throwing out is Mike Pence, but more than likely the Dems at LEAST take back the House in 2018. So Pence won't be able to get anything done and will essentially be a lame duck President who likely won't run in 2020 due to the countless scandals he'd be implicated in. So the whole FEAR MIKE PENCE line is overblown IMHO.