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DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:28 AM Aug 2018

I despise Trump with the heat of a thousand suns but America desperately needs healing.

We have become a bitter nation. There are always people with no firm convictions that will go with the wind. Trump brought in the illest of winds, and he has affected these people. This in addition to those who always harbored ill intentions towards their fellow Americans makes the situation all the more toxic.

When Trump is gone we need a Truth And Reconciliation Commission like they had in post- apartheid South Africa.

63 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I despise Trump with the heat of a thousand suns but America desperately needs healing. (Original Post) DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 OP
Can't heal until the cancer is gone htuttle Aug 2018 #1
Agree...and then reprogramming people who have been in a cult unitedwethrive Aug 2018 #6
Impossible in some instances Rorey Aug 2018 #13
Maybe Trump is not the cancer, but only the lesion. Ron Green Aug 2018 #16
The cancer is AM hate radio and Fox News. Initech Aug 2018 #52
Trump is just a particularly prominent boil. Crunchy Frog Aug 2018 #61
The healing will come through justice DavidDvorkin Aug 2018 #2
How about restorative justice ? DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #4
Meaning? DavidDvorkin Aug 2018 #8
Restorative Justice atreides1 Aug 2018 #30
That sounds fine to me DavidDvorkin Aug 2018 #37
AMEN!! That's the way its technically supposed to be; we seek justice we'll get peace uponit7771 Aug 2018 #17
Healing often requires more than simply one mechanism. LanternWaste Aug 2018 #27
I like the sentiment but asking someone who viciously and violently hates all Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #3
I think we have been pretty bitter, historically. It's a consistent theme. NCTraveler Aug 2018 #5
Just forgive, forget, and move on? NOW? dalton99a Aug 2018 #7
I don't think I said that. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #15
I do agree. Rorey Aug 2018 #9
Excising the tumor is the first step toward healing. MineralMan Aug 2018 #10
+1. First, get rid of the malignancy. dalton99a Aug 2018 #12
We got started as the dead-end dumping ground for England's religious fanatics Aristus Aug 2018 #11
There's something more honest about a straightforward criminal, lagomorph777 Aug 2018 #43
Red Don took the children of those seeking help by the 1000's where some where sexually abused, sick uponit7771 Aug 2018 #14
Can we remove the ongoing threat to our nation first before we forgive and forget? eShirl Aug 2018 #18
It sounds like you're blaming the victim... NurseJackie Aug 2018 #19
How is this blaming the victim ? DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #20
I don't like repeating myself. NurseJackie Aug 2018 #22
You seem to have developed some animus toward me. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #25
No I haven't. This isn't about you personally... NurseJackie Aug 2018 #28
If DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #31
I've done no such thing. If your OP lacks clarity, whose fault is that? NurseJackie Aug 2018 #35
There was nothing... DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #36
I can't help you... NurseJackie Aug 2018 #39
If I wanted to say both sides are equally to blame I would have said so DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #40
Doesn't matter. Your meaning was clear... NurseJackie Aug 2018 #41
I want restorative justice. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #42
That's a sign of weakness that they'll exploit. I want to DESTROY them.... NurseJackie Aug 2018 #47
Having them publicly confess to their wrongdoing is not letting them off easily. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #48
... NurseJackie Aug 2018 #49
Dr. King won freedom for his people without ever giving in to hate DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #50
It's a great way to flatter one's own self, but it's a sign of weakness... NurseJackie Aug 2018 #53
+1. Right now if you extend a hand of friendship to them, they'll steal your watch dalton99a Aug 2018 #21
Exactly! Well said! NurseJackie Aug 2018 #24
Trump and company has to be gone and that will go a long way toward healing. shraby Aug 2018 #23
Become? It was always there... HipChick Aug 2018 #26
We must make the propaganda engine accountable too Thunderbeast Aug 2018 #29
How can there be healing when awesomerwb1 Aug 2018 #32
Sure, if it goes back to 1968 bigbrother05 Aug 2018 #33
We are in this position because the GOP was never properly punished for Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr & Jr. lagomorph777 Aug 2018 #44
Yes...we do need to heal sagetea Aug 2018 #34
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow Snotcicles Aug 2018 #38
Screw That! NewJeffCT Aug 2018 #45
We need a purge edhopper Aug 2018 #46
i don't understand the use of "but" in your OP title 0rganism Aug 2018 #51
Thank you!! NurseJackie Aug 2018 #56
After Trump is a chained and made to parade naked on 5th Avenue Le Gaucher Aug 2018 #54
I kinda get what you're saying.... spicysista Aug 2018 #55
Thank you for the thoughtful response. I wish I could be as thoughtful in response. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #57
Oh, stop! I'm just long-winded! LOL! spicysista Aug 2018 #58
I might feel differently tomorrow but today I am weary from hating. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #59
Sometimes things have to be broken in order to be properly repaired. spicysista Aug 2018 #62
As of yet, there is nothing happening at the same level of horror Crunchy Frog Aug 2018 #60
I would rather have revolutionary tribunals MyNameGoesHere Aug 2018 #63

unitedwethrive

(1,997 posts)
6. Agree...and then reprogramming people who have been in a cult
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:33 AM
Aug 2018

is a well-known long and arduous endeavor.

Rorey

(8,445 posts)
13. Impossible in some instances
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:36 AM
Aug 2018

We may be able to tamp down the rhetoric, but some of those people are lost forever. And that's just terrifying.

Ron Green

(9,822 posts)
16. Maybe Trump is not the cancer, but only the lesion.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:37 AM
Aug 2018

The cancer is deeper than the media, or even most people, will acknowledge.

Initech

(100,075 posts)
52. The cancer is AM hate radio and Fox News.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 02:57 PM
Aug 2018

And now, ultra far right wing social media. As long as those three things coexist, expect another Trump or even worse.

atreides1

(16,079 posts)
30. Restorative Justice
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 12:32 PM
Aug 2018

A philosophical framework and a series of programs for the criminal justice system that emphasize the need to repair the harm done to crime victims through a process of negotiation, mediation, victim empowerment, and Reparation.

DavidDvorkin

(19,477 posts)
37. That sounds fine to me
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 01:07 PM
Aug 2018

I will admit that on a visceral level, I want (need!) vengeance. That may not be healthy for society, but we have to acknowledge that that need exists and is widespread. An eye for an eye doesn't have to make the whole world blind. It can lead to cleansing.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
27. Healing often requires more than simply one mechanism.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 12:15 PM
Aug 2018

A broken leg requires not merely re-setting, but also restriction of movement, medication to prevent infection, therapy and often other procedures as well.

And the great thing is, one mechanism does not deny the other.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,112 posts)
3. I like the sentiment but asking someone who viciously and violently hates all
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:31 AM
Aug 2018

POC and non christians, to get along with them, wont work, ever.

But I wish we could.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
5. I think we have been pretty bitter, historically. It's a consistent theme.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:32 AM
Aug 2018

Trump has gotten some really shady elements to be more comfortable speaking in public.

I don't even think our current state tops some of our historical bitterness. That is when looking at society as a whole. Not just the Presidency.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
15. I don't think I said that.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:37 AM
Aug 2018

I do think we need a Truth And Reconciliation Commission like they had in post- apartheid South Africa.

Rorey

(8,445 posts)
9. I do agree.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:34 AM
Aug 2018

But, at the same time, I don't think those on the side of honesty and decency and fairness should acquiesce to the evil side one little bit.

I want to believe that there's goodness in everyone, but it's not easy these days.

Aristus

(66,367 posts)
11. We got started as the dead-end dumping ground for England's religious fanatics
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:34 AM
Aug 2018

and malcontents.

Australia got the criminals.

I think sometimes that Australia got the better deal...

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
43. There's something more honest about a straightforward criminal,
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 02:24 PM
Aug 2018

versus a religious zealot. The latter always turn out to be hypocrites.

uponit7771

(90,339 posts)
14. Red Don took the children of those seeking help by the 1000's where some where sexually abused, sick
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:36 AM
Aug 2018

... or lost forever.

There's few times in human history fact or fiction where characters like this have been shown grace beyond what a just justice system would hand them.

I pray we do heal quickly, justice in the order for peace will help with this

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
19. It sounds like you're blaming the victim...
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:52 AM
Aug 2018
We have become a bitter nation.
It sounds like you're blaming the victim, blaming the entire nation. I have to let ya know, that comes across as a not-so-subtle "both sides are at fault" message.

It's not our fault for how we have responded/reacted to the events and horrors and trauma and embarrassment and anger. Hell yeah "we have become a bitter nation"!! Rightly so. We deserve to be!

but America desperately needs healing.
The "kumbaya everyone" moment being sought is a LONG LONG LONG way off. Screw that!

All I'm saying is that it's the MAGAts that need to come around, not the other way around. Fuck them! (And while I'm at it... let me just add: FUCK SUSAN SARANDON, too!)

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
20. How is this blaming the victim ?
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:55 AM
Aug 2018

There are always people with no firm convictions that will go with the wind. Trump brought in the illest of winds, and he has affected these people. This in addition to those who always harbored ill intentions towards their fellow Americans makes the situation all the more toxic.





NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
22. I don't like repeating myself.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 12:02 PM
Aug 2018
How is this blaming the victim ?
I don't like repeating myself. The subtle insinuation that "both sides are to blame" is offensive. The subtle "it's not really their fault" excuse-making on their behalf is also offensive. FUCK THEM! Fuck all the red-hat MAGAts! Fuck their hatred! Fuck their bigotry! Fuck their sexism! Fuck their racism! Fuck their homophobia!

There are always people with no firm convictions
... and fuck their "no firm convictions"! They don't deserve any special considerations or special favors for their vanities or stupidities.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
25. You seem to have developed some animus toward me.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 12:09 PM
Aug 2018

You seem to have developed some animus toward me and that animus manifests itself in twisting my words and mischaracterizing them in the most negative light. I will be the bigger person, take the high road, and not respond in kind.




NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
28. No I haven't. This isn't about you personally...
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 12:19 PM
Aug 2018
You seem to have developed some animus toward me.
No I haven't. This isn't about you personally. It's about what you said in the OP, and how I disagree with it, and how I think the "both sides are to blame" philosophy (or the "they-know-not-what-they-do" philosophy) is wrong.

I will be the bigger person, take the high road, and not respond in kind.
Huh? You won't "respond in kind"?? What does that even mean? How have I attacked you? By disagreeing with you and by taking issue with your OP? By explaining to you how it comes across and why I think it's wrong?

Is THAT what you consider to be "animus toward you"?? Really? --- All I can tell you is that I was very clear in criticizing only the message, and I never said a negative word about you personally.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
31. If
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 12:34 PM
Aug 2018

If you believe attributing to me sentiments which I emphatically do not hold, that those who worship at the orange altar and those who oppose Trump with every fiber of their being are somehow on the same moral plane, is not an attack on me personally there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion.

To dispense with the highfalutin language and use a shopworn colloquialism I think Trump's rabid supporters are scum.


The culture is like a well. We all drink from the same well Trump has poisoned it. The nation is bitter and broken.






NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
35. I've done no such thing. If your OP lacks clarity, whose fault is that?
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 12:48 PM
Aug 2018
If you believe attributing to me sentiments which I emphatically do not hold, that those who worship at the orange altar and those who oppose Trump with every fiber of their being are somehow on the same moral plane, is not an attack on me personally there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion.
I've done no such thing. If your OP lacks clarity, whose fault is that? Not mine.

If you've been misunderstood, then you're certainly welcome to clarify... but there's no need to claim you're the victim of some "animus" or that it's an "attack on you personally" simply because your words lacked clarity. Disagreeing with you is not "animus" nor is it an "attack".

I think Trump's rabid supporters are scum.
Good to know.

I'll go one further... I think his tepid and lukewarm supporters are scum too. I'll not extend any courtesy or gesture of kindness toward them that only serves to validate or reinforce their stupidity or bigotry. I'll not meet them halfway. I'll not accept part of the blame either.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
36. There was nothing...
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 01:00 PM
Aug 2018

There was nothing in my seminal post that suggests I believe that anybody but Trump and his rabid devotees are responsible for the toxic atmosphere we unfortunately find ourselves in. The fact you or anybody can infer that I did is beyond incomprehensible.

The South African apartheid regime imprisoned Nelson Mandela and robbed him of twenty seven years of his life yet he was able to see past his own hurt and formed the The Truth and Reconciliation Commission to bind the wounds apartheid did to his people and nation. As Martin Luther king mused " Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

May we "bind up the nation's wounds". Let us be called the children of light.


NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
39. I can't help you...
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 01:52 PM
Aug 2018
The fact you or anybody can infer that I did is beyond incomprehensible.
I can't help you. What you're describing is the fault of the writer, not the reader.

There was nothing in my seminal post that suggests I believe that anybody but Trump and his rabid devotees are responsible for the toxic atmosphere we unfortunately find ourselves in.
I disagree. Nobody needs to validate them by reconciling with them. It is THEY who need to reconcile and make amends. There's NO NEED for anyone to reach out and utter "let's be friends again" or "let's let bygones be bygones". Hell no! FUCK NO!

They are the ones who need to apologize and make amends. THAT will be the "light". I won't offer any sort of blanket-forgiveness to anyone who doesn't first seek it sincerely. NO FREE PASSES! No "it was partially out fault too".

We have become a bitter nation.
This is the sentence in your OP where it all starts to fall apart, where you're blaming "everyone" and not putting the fault squarely at the feet of Trump and his supporters. You said "we" and you said "nation"... that's everyone. It's an inclusive admonition that suggests we all have have a chip on our shoulder. You're also finding fault with OUR side... as if our anger and bitterness isn't justified, as if WE are the ones to blame and if only we'd been more understanding. (This plays into the "both sides" nonsense.)

...but America desperately needs healing
In this sentence, the message is clear. No matter how awful Trump is and no matter how much you personally hate him, you believe American needs healing (and therefore, we should be the ones to make conciliatory gestures to them.)

Obviously THEY aren't going to make the first gesture. Clearly there are only two sides here: Us and Them. So if we know for a fact that THEY will never budge, then your message is one that's suggesting that WE should be the ones to take some high road and validate them.

Not only NO, but HELL NO! Screw them! I'd rather drink an earthworm smoothie.

As Martin Luther king mused " Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
Oh, good lord! Sure, whatever... Let's love our enemy and show them the light. Surely we can set a good example and our forgiveness will help them to come around and love us all again.

Let us be called the children of light.
Kumbaya.

No! Fuck them! No free passes! No apologies. No validations. No sympathies. No high road.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
40. If I wanted to say both sides are equally to blame I would have said so
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 01:59 PM
Aug 2018

If I wanted to say both sides are equally to blame I would have said so but I'm not an absurdist.

No reason for me to write a magnum opus in response to yours but I genuinely want to thank you. At first I was using "binding the nation's wounds" and "the children of light" as talking points but now I'm woke. I will support that candidate who wants to heal our nation. Hate can not overcome hatred , only love can. "Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called the children of God."


Thank you
-DSB

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
41. Doesn't matter. Your meaning was clear...
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 02:17 PM
Aug 2018
If I wanted to say both sides are equally to blame I would have said so
Doesn't matter. Your meaning was clear. Or it was just ambiguous enough (poorly written?) that it allowed for you to make that suggestion without having to spell it out explicitly.

No reason for me to write a magnum opus in response to yours but I genuinely want to thank you.
Okay.

I will support that candidate who wants to heal our nation. Hate can not overcome hatred , only love can.
So you want to forgive them unconditionally without demanding contrition? They'll never learn anything that way. "Love our enemies" is a losing strategy... it's a passive sign of weakness that they'll exploit every time.

Besides, that's another example of "both sides" and "we're at fault too" way of thinking. There's absolutely no good reason to offer them unconditional forgiveness unless you also believe that we are ALSO at fault and that we have a REASON to give-in or that they DESERVE forgiveness. (Hint: They don't.)

"Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called the children of God."
I have no need or desire to flatter myself with those types of labels.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
42. I want restorative justice.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 02:21 PM
Aug 2018

I want restorative justice, the justice like Nelson Mandela brought to South Africa. If the victims of apartheid can sit down with their victimizers so can we. After the victimizers, i.e. Trump's henchmen confess to their crimes and ask for forgiveness we can determine the appropriate punishment.


"What we need in the United States is not division; what we need in the United States is not hatred; what we need in the United States is not violence and lawlessness, but is love and wisdom, and compassion toward one another, and a feeling of justice toward those who still suffer within our country..."


-Robert Kennedy


An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind. In fact such a sentiment is antithetical to liberals ism.


With Love
-DSB



NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
47. That's a sign of weakness that they'll exploit. I want to DESTROY them....
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 02:29 PM
Aug 2018
I want restorative justice.
That's a sign of weakness that they'll exploit. I want to DESTROY them. That's something they'll understand.

No more of this head-patting "poor baby" coddling of the MAGAts. No more taking the blame ourselves for not understanding them and not validating their irrational hatred. No more "both sides" bullshit.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
49. ...
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 02:41 PM
Aug 2018


Having them publicly confess to their wrongdoing is not letting them off easily.
Oh yes... I see that was so clearly part of the OP and everything else you've said so far. How could I have missed it? Must have been hidden somewhere between Jesus' Sermon on the Mount and MLK, Jr. quotes.

"We go high" is a sign of weakness. "We forgive you" is a sign of weakness. Forgiving those who don't ask to be forgiven is a sign of weakness. Taking equal blame for some "political misunderstanding" is a sign of weakness. Using the language and subtleties of the "both sides" philosophy is a sign of weakness.

I think it's a mistake to encourage people to do things that invite the other side to exploit and take advantage of the situation. We will only win through strength and by destroying our enemies.

No more hand-holding. No more hugs. No more kisses on their forehead.

Fuck them!

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
50. Dr. King won freedom for his people without ever giving in to hate
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 02:49 PM
Aug 2018

It has nothing to do "both sideism" and everything to do with the fact that Dr. King won freedom for his people without ever giving in to hate and without wanting to do to his enemies or doing to his enemies what was done to his.


Michelle Obama was right, "when they go low, we go high." It's also practical advice. Nobody can go lower than a Deplorable.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
53. It's a great way to flatter one's own self, but it's a sign of weakness...
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 03:42 PM
Aug 2018

It's a great way to flatter one's own self, but it's a sign of weakness that they'll always exploit.

Nobody can go lower than a Deplorable.
Don't be so sure. When faced with life or death situations, I can certainly go low in my quest to destroy them. Why let them have the upper hand just so that I can pat myself on the back (in defeat) and try to console myself (in defeat) by pretending that I'm better than them (in defeat) simply because I was unwilling to fight back... because I had to live up to some unrealistic ideal of "going high".

It's also practical advice.
No it's not. Why would ANYONE want to willingly give them an advantage?

There's nothing at all practical about it. (Unless being defeated and giving in to the enemy is something that's viewed as honorable or desirable.) I mean, "WE GO HIGH" is fine for a bumper sticker slogan... but in the real world, it's a losing philosophy... that's all I'm saying.

I think most reasonable people understand this too. But, I suppose when someone is so emotionally invested in this argument with me that it's difficult to admit that they're wrong and that they overplayed their hand... at that point, all reason flies out the window.

It has nothing to do "both sideism"
Of course it does. I can read. I'm not stupid. I'm not willing to to concede by giving in and coddling them. I'm not going to flatter them or validate their bigotry. I refuse to give forgiveness that was never asked for and that isn't deserved.

Anyone making that argument is also suggesting their belief (or a suspicion) that our side is equally to blame and equally culpable as the other side. Hence... my very strong objections to the "both sides" philosophy.

Overall, what's being proposed here, in the OP and throughout, is a weak and losing strategy. So glad that I'm not the only one who sees it. And not the only one who takes issue with the entire premise of your OP (along with all the various tweaks you're giving it along the way.) I'm not entirely sure why it is you feel compelled to have the "last word" only with me, however.

dalton99a

(81,486 posts)
21. +1. Right now if you extend a hand of friendship to them, they'll steal your watch
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:56 AM
Aug 2018

if they don't chop it off - and blame you for making them do it

We're dealing with fucking traitors and criminals.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
24. Exactly! Well said!
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 12:05 PM
Aug 2018
We're dealing with fucking traitors and criminals.
Exactly! Well said! Nobody needs to give them any special consideration, or favors. This OP is suggesting that we flatter the MAGAts by trying to meet them halfway or by accepting half the blame. NO! If there's going to be any movement or progress, it's going to be because THEY come around to reality. We are under no obligation to validate their hatred and bigotry.

shraby

(21,946 posts)
23. Trump and company has to be gone and that will go a long way toward healing.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 12:03 PM
Aug 2018

It will be like taking a bunch of porcupine quills out from all over the body.

Thunderbeast

(3,411 posts)
29. We must make the propaganda engine accountable too
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 12:20 PM
Aug 2018

A full-throated boycott of ALL Fox News advertisers is in order. The First Ammendment protects them from civil or criminal liability.

We can not have the "reconciliation" part of the equation until we re-connect society with a common set of "truths".

Goebels was not held immune for the damage he brought to the world.

awesomerwb1

(4,268 posts)
32. How can there be healing when
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 12:34 PM
Aug 2018

Russia has control over so many people in high places? Do we think Faux news is going to call for healing? Limbo?

There can be no healing until we get rid of all the traitors and we get a new wave of decent people like Beto O'Rourke in office. The decent conservatives can join us or form their own party.

"When trump is gone" he won't be taking the Kochs, the Adelsons, the Princes, the Mercers, the 62 million white supremacists with him. The (R) brand is tainted and we need to make sure it remains so for a long time.

The (R)s would put the boot on our throats if the roles were reversed. They would show us no mercy.

It's time for decent people to take over. Join us or you can stay with your bigotry, white supremacy and misogyny. We've got a planet to save.



bigbrother05

(5,995 posts)
33. Sure, if it goes back to 1968
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 12:39 PM
Aug 2018

There is a lot of crap out there that was done by many that keep being trotted out as some kind of expert.

John Dean served his time and has tried to redeem himself, but the establishment GOP has a lot to answer for.

Am also sure some members from the Dem side have some skeletons, but far fewer instances of selling out our democracy and oppressing civil rights.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
44. We are in this position because the GOP was never properly punished for Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr & Jr.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 02:26 PM
Aug 2018

Each time, they've escalated the crimes and gotten away with more than their predecessors.

sagetea

(1,368 posts)
34. Yes...we do need to heal
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 12:39 PM
Aug 2018

The golden rule, treat others as you would like to be treated. Well, see, that doesn't work when dealing with these cult members. They are mean and ignorant and hateful! Even before this 'trump era' I stayed away from people like that, they are toxic and don't really know what they want, unless it's something that a POC or handicapped or poor person wants/needs, then of course, they will pay attention and make it so they can take away from those people.

People like us, we were once called "bleeding heart liberals" because of our caring nature and our ability to find peace in helping out our brothers and sisters so we are at an equal ground. We tried hard and deep inside we are still like that, however, they are not. There is no kindness in these left over Orange cult followers. There really is no reasoning with them, none. Believe me I've tried!

wind can also be very cleansing too, it blows out the stuck stuff from corners and cleans them. His followers, were the way they are long before trump ever became president. I think it's time America takes a long hard look at itself. We keep looping over and over the same things, we need to step off of this merry-go-round and get busy going to the future.

And that's a very good idea, by the way, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission! It would be a nice breath of fresh air.

sage

 

Snotcicles

(9,089 posts)
38. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 01:10 PM
Aug 2018

Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small; Though with patience He stands waiting, with exactness grinds He all.”

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
45. Screw That!
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 02:27 PM
Aug 2018

I posted this in another spot on DU this morning and also on Twitter
>>>
Ford pardoned Nixon to heal the country and move forward.

That brought us the Reagan corruption and war on the middle class.

Then, we allowed George HW Bush to pardon a bunch of people involved with Iran-Contra so we could heal the nation and move forward

That brought us W Bush and the Iraq War and the only person punished with Scooter Libby.

And, from W, we descended to Trump.

No More FUCKING healing the nation this time!!!

Maybe if we wanted to heal the nation we should throw the lot in the White House in jail for life and then we can move on and move forward? Adding this: Maybe a score of life sentences and another 20-30 or more in jail for 10-20 years would serve as a future deterrent?

0rganism

(23,954 posts)
51. i don't understand the use of "but" in your OP title
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 02:54 PM
Aug 2018

more like "and" as far as i can tell
i'm thinking some people might just be confused by this
whatever healing you think we need, i suspect we can agree that Trump is not going to provide that healing

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
56. Thank you!!
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 04:01 PM
Aug 2018

It has the linguistic effect of acknowledging but negating the evilness that is Trump in favor of a philosophy that suggests that "both sides" are at fault and that SOMEONE needs to give-way in order to break a stalemate... even worse, that it should be OUR side to willingly present our underbellies in a show of weakness (that will surely be exploited) by offering forgiveness to them... something that they have not asked for, and something that is not deserved. All this, of course, is only for the bragging rights and being able to boast about "going high" even though, strategically, it is of zero value, especially in consideration of the certain knowledge that such a weakness will be taken advantage of every time.

spicysista

(1,663 posts)
55. I kinda get what you're saying....
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 03:50 PM
Aug 2018

At least, I think I do. What I'm hearing is, "America is hurt and we should ALL work towards a healing." Am I right?

Let's take this in parts:
"Trump brought in the illest of winds"
Some would say that these "illest of winds" have always been here and were simply used, not brought, by dolt45. In other words, those feelings and sentiments have always been a part of our society. One political party has been carefully cultivating those ill winds since 1964, so we shouldn't surprised that a tRump would rise from their ranks. So, they'll have to make a decision, as a party, about what to do on that front.

"There are always people with no firm convictions that will go with the wind."
I can not say that this is true since study after study has shown that the vast majority of Agent Orange's supporters are united in one thing, across the board. Race (fear of the other) was the "one ring" that united them all!
Not sure what can be done to assuage their fears. If I'm honest, I'm probably not the one to tackle that. Maybe their more liberal family members can reach out or something... I'm much more interested in working on policy prescriptions which would provide more opportunities for diversity to thrive. Changing hearts and minds will come, eventually.


"This in addition to those who always harbored ill intentions towards their fellow Americans makes the situation all the more toxic."

This, a thousand times over! The original sins of this country have lingered for a very specific reason. People are benefiting from the current system. There's a reason Mango Mussolini constantly reaches for the brightest object of racial transgression, it works to solidify his power among his base.

"we need a Truth And Reconciliation Commission "
I do like this idea, a lot. Here's the rub though, how many folks are ready to hear the truth? How many people think coal is coming back or that the Clintons killed Vince Foster? How many people believe that climate change is a hoax and that their jobs no longer exist installing asbestos because of NAFTA? You have an entire network of "news" that feeds constant lies to the American populace.
Exhibit A:



People are choosing their truth. Here's an example of a tRump supporter being confronted with truth....



It's not pretty.
How are you going to sit at the table with someone who doesn't agree that there is even a table in existence?

I agree, America needs to have a talk. We are going to have to course correct, and soon. The middle 38% of the country having more power than the surrounding and decidedly larger costal area, is not tenable. Power in our congress is decidedly white and conservative, not particularly reflective of the country.
We do need to talk, but to what end?

I say we work on changing laws by first electing democrats across the country. Fighting in every race, from dog catcher to President, will be a key part of our strategy.We should pass laws that meet the needs of the people and keep in communication (town halls, emails, mailers, larger events) with them. Staying as dogged in our agenda as the cons are in their own. That's what needs to happen. Some conversation, too.




DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
57. Thank you for the thoughtful response. I wish I could be as thoughtful in response.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 04:06 PM
Aug 2018
"There are always people with no firm convictions that will go with the wind."
I can not say that this is true since study after study has shown that the vast majority of Agent Orange's supporters are united in one thing, across the board. Race (fear of the other) was the "one ring" that united them all!
Not sure what can be done to assuage their fears. If I'm honest, I'm probably not the one to tackle that. Maybe their more liberal family members can reach out or something... I'm much more interested in working on policy prescriptions which would provide more opportunities for diversity to thrive. Changing hearts and minds will come, eventually.



It reminds me about what I read about police departments; fifteen percent are what you and I would say are good cops, fifteen percent are what you and I would say are bad cops, and the remaining seventy percent take their cues from leadership. It is said of the American Revolution one third of the colonists supported the red coats, one third supported the blue coats, and one third supported whichever side was winning.

spicysista

(1,663 posts)
58. Oh, stop! I'm just long-winded! LOL!
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 04:23 PM
Aug 2018

The police analogy is very helpful. Thank, you. I'm just not sure about the numbers (good, bad, just flowing with the wind) among Americans. Do you really think that a larger chunk of folks are just sort of drifting...looking for leadership? Strictly speaking of "likely voters", I think that everyone is pretty entrenched in some serious ideology. But you know what, I'm hoping that you're correct. That reality would provide more pathways towards reconciliation.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
59. I might feel differently tomorrow but today I am weary from hating.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 04:37 PM
Aug 2018

I don't want to be seen as going soft on Deplorables. Look at my posting history. They deserve our enmity. We don't hate them for who they are. We hate them for what they do. That being said I do think most people want to get along.

David Axelrod says that when Americans look for a leader they look for someone who is the opposite of the current president. Who can be more opposite than Trump than a healer?

As an aside when I see Cory Booker I see a healer. Like Barack Obama he appeals to our better angels. I hope he runs and I obviously hope he wins.

America is broken.

spicysista

(1,663 posts)
62. Sometimes things have to be broken in order to be properly repaired.
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 05:07 PM
Aug 2018

America, however, isn't broken. Sure, her laws and systems are stacked and packed with our original sins. But her people.... we can never be broken. We are each making a declaration of what it means to be American. Since we are so many, it's a bit messy. Okay, actually, it's pretty ugly. All of America's growing pains have been ugly. Colonization, Independence, Civil War, Ending Reconstruction, Women's Rights, Desegregation, Civil Rights, Gay Rights.....whatever the heck THIS is.....is an ugly process. We're going to emerge as a better nation after this period of growth. We have to believe that.

I really admire your signature line. Love is the only way to beat hate.



Cheers, friend. I pray that your weekend gets better than it has started.

Crunchy Frog

(26,587 posts)
60. As of yet, there is nothing happening at the same level of horror
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 04:57 PM
Aug 2018

As South African apartheid. Nothing so bad as to justify a truth and reconciliation committee. Not saying that it won't get there, but that it hasn't yet.

While the country definitely needs healing, I don't see it happening as long as the RW/hate propaganda is still in operation, and so pervasive and influential.

Sadly I think that things are probably going to get much worse in this country before things begin to turn around, if they ever actually do.

I'm not really seeing a way out of our current situation right now.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
63. I would rather have revolutionary tribunals
Fri Aug 24, 2018, 05:11 PM
Aug 2018

And re-education camps. I don't want these cretin to ever come back, and that includes millions of enablers.

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