Dear Mr. HOGG, Please educate yourself first. Who has stood with you?

[Wwcd]

Representative Nancy Pelosi's Public Statements on Gun Control.
I dare you to read every word Speaker Pelosi has said concerning your own passionate plea for gun control.
We applaud you, Mr Hogg & support your brave effort.

However, in light of your derogatory statement dismissing Speaker Pelosi as "old", I ask you to consider the mighty work she has done on behalf of your very own passionate cause.

14 years of Nancy Pelosi's work on gun control.
Speaker Pelosi wasn't always "old". But she has always been on the same path as you, Mr Hogg.

https://votesmart.org/candidate/public-statements/26732/nancy-pelosi/37/guns#.W3w1eXNOk0N

Please get to know your alliances & also your enemies.

Simply apologize.
Thank you

[BeyondGeography]

1. Oh leave the kid be

A lot of of Democrats agree with his basic point.

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. Really? I dont know any Democrats who know anything about anything who do.

All the Democrats I know understand how fantastic she is just like how fantastic Hillary is.

[BeyondGeography]

6. How about the 50-something D candidates who either won't vote for her as Speaker

or refuse to commit?

[brush]

11. All of us Dems, including that candidate, should not fall for repug framing of who our House...

leader is. It's clearly an attempt to divide us before the Nov. election. Once the election is over our reps. will vote on it in-house.

Until then it's premature and nobody's business but our own.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

27. This.

And that's exactly what it is.

[EffieBlack]

49. Thank you!

How many times does this need to be said?!

[Fla Dem]

80. Totally agree with you.

The GOP has fined tuned the art of character assassination. They did it to HRC, Sen Warren and Nancy Pelosi. Unfortunately the MSM picks up on their criticisms and they become mainstream talking points. Speaker Pelosi is a politically savvy and smart woman. She'll weather the storm. The real problem is the GOP will create division in the Democratic Party. Much like BS did during the 2016 primaries.

[LakeArenal]

101. Indeed!! We need to vote before any decisions can or will be made.

Nancy is the leader. Today is all we have. Anything beyond that is just speculation.

[SCantiGOP]

108. Anyone who wants to spend the rest of their evening

in a never-ending and contentious argument, just stay in this thread.

[7962]

118. Ha!

[Roy Rolling]

132. Hey, What about Bernie's Democratic Party Creds?

[geardaddy]

142. Spot on.

Well said.

[Eliot Rosewater]

19. YOu wont like my answer to that question, but the attempt to destroy the D party from within

is close to complete so it wont matter soon anyway.

[haele]

20. Pre-election promises are not the same as post election promises. Whose running for Speaker now?

Right now, for the Speaker's position, I'm more concerned about whom the Republicans are going to elect. Because THEY HAVE THE HOUSE. Do we want to face Kevin McCarthy, Jim Jordan, or whatever other evilangelical corporatist stooge that they're going to be pushing to take over Paul the weathervain Ryan?

We have to actually win the house before putting people up to run for Speaker. If people stay home because Pelosi has been demonized by the right and they don't want her as speaker, then there's no chance to vote for an effective Democratic House Speaker.
If it takes saying "I won't vote for Nancy Pelosi" to get votes out, it implies to the voter is that someone they feel is more effective than Pelosi - or someone more to their liking - can be nominated when the Democrats take over the house...
No matter if in reality, it doesn't really matter if it's a Wishy-washy third-way Republocrat running against her, or some newbie with delusions of privilege because they represent a politically homogenous district on one side of the spectrum or another, she's going to win, because it's a consensus of democrats - the majority of the party that is actually sitting in the House - that will elect a Speaker of the House.

Saying one won't vote for Pelosi right now is like counting chickens before the eggs are actually laid. And looking at the Democrats looking to run, I honestly don't think they'll be hurt if when we win, they don't vote for Pelosi and she wins anyway.
She is, after all, one of the most effective Speakers of the House in history.
The one thing I can guarantee is whomever we can elect, there's going to be a good number of constituent voters who will be unhappy.

They'll either be not progressive enough, or not inclusive enough, or not "pragmatic" enough, or not <FITB> sparkle pony issue of the year enough. Because that's the way Democrats roll...

Haele

[dawg day]

28. How about winning the House first--

Then decide on Speaker?
Horse before cart!

[emulatorloo]

55. How about not falling for Republican character assassination campaigns and inadvertently helping

them.

Republicans lie about and try to destroy any effective Democrat. Who ever replaces Pelosi will get the same treatment, unless they are incompetent

Hogg’s young so he has an excuse though.

[QC]

60. They're meanies!!!! n/t

[pazzyanne]

104. That says more about them than it does about her.

It is comments like this that make me question whether or not I want to be associated with small minded individuals, even if they carry a D by their name. There is one Democrat that I have black listed. I was told that we have a big party tent. Attacking our own does no one, especially us any good.

[George II]

121. It's not often when a Representative is elected Speaker of the House unanimously.

[JHan]

156. How about those 50 or so candidates actually work on persuading their peers..

How about we stop encouraging people to guilt shame Pelosi into quitting because let's be real here..

If people actually wanted her removed, they'd do the work to get her removed which again means, persuading their peers and demonstrating they've got someone who has the guts, the wiles and knowledge to pass legislation in these times. But they don't want to do that..

What they want is for her to guilt herself into stepping down. They want her to amputate herself and tell the world that she's too broken down and old and too middle of the road, even though she's well to the left of her own damn caucus which she led through thick and thin.

How much sense does it make to think that people who can't persuade their peers should lead anything in the house?

[NurseJackie]

157. Nailed it!

[comradebillyboy]

8. Amen

[Wwcd]

12. I don't know of any either Elliot. You make a Good Point!

[skylucy]

76. [phone]! The people who don't support Nancy Pelosi generally do not have a clue

how great she was as majority leader!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

148. I will break this to you gently.

Not all Democrats are enamored of Nancy Pelosi. I know that here on DU all criticism of her is forbidden, but trust me, she's not universally loved. And if you think only Republicans, or those somehow bamboozled by Republicans are the only ones who do not worship at the Altar of Nancy, you are living in a bubble.

[Eliot Rosewater]

153. I know who doesnt like her and WHY. Sadly, there are some who dont like her on our side

who are just ignorant about her.

Or it is a combo of ignorance about her career and positions and actions along with the demand for a perfect politician, all of a sudden.
If these folks refuse to educate themselves about her, not my fault.

[procon]

23. Uh, no.

Democrats do not agree with Republican talking points like ageism and misogyny that denigrate, demonize and marginalize women. Some people may have another candidate they prefer for speaker, and that's fine, but no one can match Pelosi's achievements or her clout and effectiveness in getting bills passed.

[BeyondGeography]

26. This again?

Oy.

His basic point is House leadership is too old. Holding that view does not make you evil.

[FreeState]

52. He didnt say leadership was old, he said SHE is old

that's agism and I hope someone teaches him that agism is just as harmful as any other bias.

“The reason Republicans are successful right now is because they’re empowering young people,” he said. “Older Democrats just won’t move the f**** off the plate and let us take control. Nancy Pelosi is old.” Minority Leader of the United States House of Representatives, Pelosi is a Democrat and 78 years old.

[BeyondGeography]

71. Agriculture has nothing to do with this

[FreeState]

83. ??hu n/t

[BeyondGeography]

84. I too reject agism

[Ms. Toad]

99. ag-riculture . . . ag-ism. n/t

[dflprincess]

130. He's 18

When you're 18 anyone over 40 is old.

[procon]

61. Ageism against Democratic women is an attack line that began with Republicans.

Define "too old"?

There are few complaints about the age of powerful men in the Democratic Party. Younger voters overwhelmingly flocked to 76 year old Sen. Bernie Sanders over the 69 year old Hillary Clinton, who they labeled as old, tired and sickly and mentally challenged. Dianne Feinstein is criticized at age 85. Joe Biden is 74 and generally beloved by the voters, as is 71-year-old Bill Clinton, and civil rights icon, John Lewis is revered at age 78.

It's clearly not a question of age being detrimental among most Democratic men, but women are disproportionately targeted. Republicans have laser focused on age as a means of marginalized and removing the most effective operatives we have, like Pelosi. I wouldn't be surprised if they get a little boost from their Russian pals who seed that attack message all over the internet. The media sure does a copy cat business in rehashing the same stories that are being promoted by Fox and other rightwing sources. Why do some Democrats follow along, repeating the same Republican talking points instead of showcasing the merits of their alternate choices?

[Honeycombe8]

110. I gather he was saying she was old, Hatch is old, Trump is old. There is a time...

There is a time when the baton gets passed to the younger generation. Some don't want to let go of the baton, though.

It is time, I think, for a younger crowd to start getting into positions of power in the Democratic Party, just like in the Republican Party. Paul Ryan, Rubio, and others.

Both Democratic leaders are very old in their way of thinking and in their energy level. I am over 60, myself. It's a new world, new environment. The party needs fresh blood, a younger outlook. Or to put it another way, if we want the younger generation, we have to INCLUDE the younger generation in positions of leadership. Not 18 or 21. But even 40 is in the right direction.

I have noticed a lack of passion in Pelosi & Schumer. An inability to understand a changing world, like thinking that Trump is really a President and would act that way, when most in the country could see it wasn't so.

They're good in their jobs. But others could be good, or better. If the party wants to ignite passion that is more than anger at the opposition, it has to have leaders that ignite passion. Obama did it. He's younger.

[procon]

126. There is no objection to passing the baton.

However, to do so using age as the primary rationale for demanding someone with experience relinquish there position to a neophyte who is more youthful, is ridiculous.

I disagree with your contention that age equates to being backward and lacking stamina. Its shameful to marginalize all Democrats by asserting they are too stupid "to understand a changing world." Most senior citizen do not fit that pathetic stereotype image you have portrayed, and definitely not Pelosi.

The influx of youthful candidates should be encouraged at all political levels, mentor them, teach them, but above all, give them time to learn their craft and develop a greater understanding for the business of politicking before they try grabbing the reigns of power. We should not be pigeonholing the entire Dem leadership into retirement just to let some unskilled younger person move to the top slots without ever learning, or earning the right to hold such office.

Worse, we should never compare ourselves, as Democrats, to Republicans like Paul Ryan or Rubio. You say you admire them because they are younger. Seriously? They are NOT "good in their jobs". Have you looked at their records... they passed almost no legislation and the two major efforts are designed to hurt ordinary people and make the rich more money. Their youthful enthusiasm has enacted policies that are destroying the country.

Obama did not "ignite passion" because he was younger. He captured America's attention because he believed in his vision, and he was both smart, charismatic, and a brilliant orator, but above all, Obama was successful because he genuinely cared about people. None of that has anything to do with age.

[happy feet]

64. When did old by itself become a disqualifier?

I'll take effectiveness while building a pipeline any day. No time for neophytes given the current Republicans and Congress.

[pazzyanne]

107. That depends on who you ask?

There are plenty of us "grey panthers" out here who would disagree. Ageism is not a good look on anyone. We all get there if we live long enough. Those of us with life experience can contribute in ways the young never can. They are not old enough. See the irony?

[jodymarie aimee]

39. I'm with you Geography....

and I am old !!!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

43. If you wish to be ageist against Pelosi, be consistent & be ageist against Carter & Hillary

Or did you say Hillary was too old when she was campaigning?

[BeyondGeography]

47. Apples and oranges

Pelosi has been D House leader since 2003 and is presently head of an entrenched leadership team that consists of another 78-year-old and a 79-year-old. She has already been Speaker, though not for the last eight years, and she has done relatively little to ease the path for younger members who would like to lead a committee one day, which is basically all of them. There is a lot of opposition to Pelosi in her own caucus; are they ageist too? And why would it follow that if you oppose Pelosi you also had a problem with a 60-something year-old woman going for the one chance she would ever have to be President?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

58. 2003? Hillary has been active at the highest levels of government since 1993.

Opposition is fine, though it is best timed after the election Nov 2018 decides if a Democrat is eligible to be Speaker and not divisively in the middle of a crucial election season after almost all the primaries have been decided.

Opposition is fine when focused on policies, approaches, and track records.

Opposition is fine, but focusing on age as you and Hogg do is ageist.

[happy feet]

74. +1

[ProfessorGAC]

111. Beyond Geography?

You sure you have the right noun?
That comment suggests many others

[George II]

123. What constitutes "a lot"? And of those, how many really are Democrats?

[lark]

136. His point is a 70 year old woman shouldn't be the Democratic Speaker of the House.

I am surprised that any Dems would agree with that sexist and ageist rant applied only to women. 18 year olds can be passionate and involved, but that doesn't mean that I would agree with them on everything.

If some Dems are against her because they want a younger male Speaker, well that could be just that they like the guy and don't like her, or it could be that they too are ageist and have issues with women in power.

[BeyondGeography]

141. 70?

[Hoyt]

2. Hope some researcher keeps up with his opinions for the next 70 years or so.

[padah513]

48. Yes

An older friend of mine always used to say, "Keep on living, you'll get here too." That was 30 years ago and damn if he wasn't right.

[Eliot Rosewater]

3. Propaganda works on all of us to some degree.

I dont know exactly what Hogg said, but he seems like the type who will accept and understand the importance of people like Nancy once explained to him.

[Thrill]

4. This is what republicans do. Talk so much shit about someone

That this kid, has no clue who’s he’s disrespecting.

[Wwcd]

9. As well as some right here. Thanks, Thrill, you are absolutely correct.

[EffieBlack]

50. This ...

[snowybirdie]

7. The young sometimes

think they know all the answers. That's normal and natural. Wisdom develops with a lifetime of experience. Mr Hogg has done wonderful things, but it's time to take some advice from others more experienced in the political game. Ask the 60s hippies who wouldn't trust anyone over 30! They are retirement age now!

[PatSeg]

22. My generation knew EVERYTHING

we were young and our parents were clueless.

When I read what Hogg said said about Nancy Pelosi, Cat Stevens played in my head, "Oh very young, what will you leave us this time". At least young people are stepping up and getting involved and I am grateful for that. They may have a lot of learn, but they do have the energy to make positive changes.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. He's only 18, so give him a break.

Back in the '60s when I was that age and we were protesting the Vietnam War, there was a saying, "Never trust anyone over 30!" We were pretty full of ourselves and we thought the "old" people were warmongering plutocrats and all that stuff, and only the young people knew what was really going on. I think the same state of mind has kicked in for some of these kids and it has a lot to do with the passion and self-righteousness of the young.

Maybe Pelosi should offer to meet with him, and, not in a condescending way, have a discussion about what she and other Democrats have tried to do about gun control.

[Wwcd]

15. Give him a break? No. He needs to educate himself as to who has fought as he does for gun control

before he uses his public stage to undermine those very best alliances.

Perhaps he should use his well earned public stage to call out those in Govt who fought & voted AGAINST gun control.
NAME THEM ALL, Mr Hogg.

Every Senator & Rep, young & "old", who has voted against limiting access to weapons in America.

Educate yourself, before throwing your strongest allies aside.

The NRA backed Republican Party applauds your derrision of Speaker Pelosi's age.

[BigOleDummy]

42. Exactly!

…. and well said.

[Politicub]

149. Tbh, this education approach sounds like something a schoolyard bully would do

“Say you’re sorry.” Seriously?

Foster understanding. Don’t criticize and berate a young person calling someone old.

I’m old. Whatever.

[JaneQPublic]

16. Yep, when I was 18, the rule was "don't trust anyone over 30."

Of course, that was a million years ago.

That said, David Hogg and his classmates have done a ton of good for the country, in terms of advancing gun control and voter registration.

Plus, it's been JUST SIX MONTHS since the massacre at his high school. Since then, he's been vilified by the right-wingers and faced death threats weekly.

So, I'm willing to cut him a little slack for voicing an opinion without getting all the facts first. Hell, we all do it all the time here on DU!

[procon]

30. No. He might be young and inexperienced, but that's a poor excuse that

will hurt him, even ruin his budding career. He's done some brilliant stuff, and made some thoughtful comments, so he's not without intellect. Those very qualities will make anyone vulnerable, and the growing fame feeds the egos of any public figure.

Likely, he can't recognize that his growing popularity and the accompanying media scrutiny could end his aspirations in a heartbeat. Before he get's too much farther into what could be a fabulous future, someone should help him understand how he could benefit from a wiser and more experienced handler or mentor.

[Mariana]

57. "Never trust anyone over 30!"

Well, that is totally different. Somehow.

[nini]

109. He's a mature 18 - he's done good things

He needs a bit of 'in your face' to hold his own for his causes.. However, he needs to know who's on his side and work with the powerful to achieve his gun goals.

It's not gonna be that young Paul Ryan that's for damn sure.

[RockRaven]

13. She isn't targeted by GOP b/c she's in the leadership position, she's targeted b/c she's EFFECTIVE

in the leadership position. Hogg might be dissatisfied with what Congress has done -- or rather not done -- during his lifetime, but Congress would be a hell of a lot more do-nothing without Pelosi.

[brer cat]

95. ++++++++ nt

[rogue emissary]

14. Reading DU responses to your post is interesting.

If you point out a young Democrat continues to make misstakes your bashing her. If you call an established and proven Democrat old and demand she step down it's constructive.

[The Polack MSgt]

17. IKR?

Interesting that so many people have such different reactions to similar behavior.

All depends on which ox is gored.

[EffieBlack]

51. +1000

[Heartstrings]

56. Perplexing indeed!

GOTV!!!!

[brer cat]

96. IKR? nt

[Me.]

18. The Strong Reaction To His Comment

may well be an addition to his learning curve

[MadDAsHell]

21. He's asking the right question. Age often equals more net worth in Congress.

And why is it that nearly every Congress-person leaves the job many times richer (in the tens of millions of dollars in some cases) after working a job that pays them $174k a year?

The oldest members of Congress are often there to line their own pocket books. Serving the people is incidental.

[Mariana]

59. Most of them are already rich when they first get elected.

In this country, rich people tend to get richer - often much richer - over time. Rich lawmakers are no exception.

[Power 2 the People]

24. It was rude and he should apologize

Criticize policies all you want,but don't attack personally.

[UTUSN]

25. K&R. -----------Ah, youth. Wasted on the Young.

[Crutchez_CuiBono]

128. So true. heh heh.

Im sure i wasted mine on being young too. Almost forgetting those times now.

[UTUSN]

129. An understanding soul, you are!1

[firstwife]

29. Wasn't there an earlier post today about

how much older Pelosi was when she became speaker? Because she stayed home to raise her kids, unlike Ryan needing to do so? Maybe that point should also be included in this discussion. It made sense to me.

[IronLionZion]

31. When Dems fight each other in generational warfare, who benefits?

[LovingA2andMI]

35. No One....

[IronLionZion]

36. Republicans and Russian trolls

[stonecutter357]

32. K&R

[zentrum]

33. I think he means she

...didn't get it done even after 14 years because she fights in conventional ways. There's a lot the Dems could do on the floor of Congress that would get less pro-forma coverage or none at all and that would generate headlines.

I think he's saying it's time for something edgier--less predictable.

[renate]

34. He may have a point about considering someone else as Speaker, though not because of her age

It's stupid that she's the boogeywoman for a lot of voters because of GOP propaganda, but first and foremost Democrats have to take back the House. If choosing another speaker is what it takes to get people to vote Democratic, then that's what must be done.

But in that statement, he was a little too full of himself. I admire him tremendously and this was the first mistake I think he's made publicly, but it's a doozy.

[sinkingfeeling]

37. I was not pleased by his comment.

[Wwcd]

45. Considering that he singled Pelosi out with an "ageist" RW talking point & he

clearly has no idea what Pelosi has done on behalf of the same cause as Hogg speaks to.

He really should read her Congeessional record of advocating against weapons before spouting & speaking her name.
She os perhaps the best friend Hogg could have in the House when it comes to advocating for his passionate plea for gun control.

Yet he singled out Pelosi? As too fking OLD?

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Her record on pushing for gun control has been relentless.
He should get to know the voting records 9f those in Congress before he repeats the RW election year dream meme.

The NRA hates Pelosi. And her record tells us why.

Do some research, Mr Hogg. You seriously NEED Speaker Pelosi if you want to finally bring your cause to Law.

Geezus!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

38. Let's not be ageist. Let's not condemn Hogg's youth & inexperience, only his ill-considered content.

[Hortensis]

40. Let him say his say. What's new about young people

thinking they're having to invent all the answers because older people were too stupid to? Also, he's not only still an adolescent, albeit with impressive achievements*, but still several years short of mature brain development. From there he'll benefit from another 15 years or so of mature growth experiences before becoming something of an equal among adults.

Btw, he's also a good half century shy of the time when counter kids his age will be intolerably bored merely by having to notice someone who's mere existence is a nuisance. His time will come. As for Nancy, although I wish him a wonderful life of public service, the odds are not good that he'll have risen to anywhere in succession to the presidency by that point, much less to second in line.

* David Hogg himself and the rest of that group are an impressive achievement by their female journalism teacher, Ms. Whatshername, whose achievements in teaching them and helping students seize the moment in front of the world's cameras, while staying carefully in the background herself, should be remembered more often, not just by her admiring colleagues.

[Corgigal]

41. Don't we need to win the midterms first?

The rest will be figured out in time. If Mr. Hogg is having a hard time reaching out to first time voters because their answer is that politics is just for old people. He needs to make them understand that these policies they are being passed, that it is the young that will live 60 years or more under. If they only live in the present, time will fly. When you're young , you just don't believe that. Humans.

He needs to think it out and get a smart comeback. I'm sure some people would think his parents are old, and he wouldn't be anywhere without them.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

44. If he hopes to run in the future...

...as a Democrat, insulting other Democrats isn't the way to go.
I'm not a fan of overly restrictive gun laws but Nancy Pelosi is a champion of many causes and issues.

[NCTraveler]

46. This is a part of embracing youth movements.

They are going to say some seriously foolish things along the way.

Great time for him to learn. Great time for him so self reflect. He is smart and will do both. Give him some time.

[NRaleighLiberal]

72. Well stated....thanks for your post. I agree.

[bigtree]

53. what the hell is wrong with people?

...young person wants young people representing him in Congress.

Not uncommon, or even untoward.

Get a grip.

[hexola]

54. yeah - pretty sure we call this a "representative" government

And he's not feeling represented!

[HopeAgain]

62. Apologize for having an opinion?

Ludicrous post.

[vi5]

63. Wow, saw this coming a mile away.

Democrats were and are more than happy to use these kids to energize voters around a particular issue, but once those kids refuse to tow the Democratic party line 100% and dared to have opinions of their own on that subject they would get turned on.

The only thing that letter is missing is the requisite admonishment about how much Republicans are worse.

[hueymahl]

137. Yep. This right here.

I stand with Hogg. He is the future of the Party.

I also stand with and respect Pelosi. She (and everyone screaming ageism!) need to listen a little more.

[usaf-vet]

65. I'm 71 have voted in EVERY election since it was legal for me to vote.

The one consistent thing I have observed is republicans have long term plans that they follow. They remain loyal to their objectives to the EXTREME as we are seeing now. Supporting Trump no mater what.

We Democrats manage to get into pissing matches amongst themselves and often appear to do more to lose political battles than to win the power that we need to solve major problems. Health care for all Americans, gun controls that work and stop violence and access to gun, women right's to make their own decisions about their bodies, voting rights for all, equity rights, fair living wages and benefits to name a few key issues.

David Hogg and the other students have touched a nerve in the fight against gun violence. In their young minds the oldsters in the country have not managed to SOLVE the problem. I can see why they they might be disillusioned with the ability of oldsters to solve the problems.

So let's not fight amongst ourselves. Let's not look at the youngster as inexperienced and unable to bring value to the table.

Remember on more than one occasion in this countries history it was the 18, 19, 20 year old's that were fighting and dying on foreign soil to protect our values.

These kids bring plenty of guts and passion to this battle. Let's recognize that and bring them to the table.

From what I see and have read and they have educated themselves. They have survived a trail by fire, gun fire, and they have a voice that is resonating with others. Let them continue to speak without hindrance from us oldsters.

[LovingA2andMI]

66. The Reaction On Twitter...

Agrees with your sentiment. Widely agrees.

[Wwcd]

67. Thank you. Of all OLD Congress people to name, he chooses his best anti-gun rights ally!

Holee cow..I hope he realizes what a big pile of RW NRA doo he stepped in by derriding Pelosi.

Someone needed to tell him.

Ugh.

[LovingA2andMI]

68. The Saying Is...

The wiser mind mourns less for what age takes away than what it leaves behind. - William Wordsworth

David needs to grow up, and learn a lot.

[BamaRefugee]

69. Isn't it Ageist to condemn his comments because he's "only 18"?

[azureblue]

135. exactly

Hogg is young. So, using the same standard, it is ageist to call him "young". And to him, Bernie, etc. (and me too) is "old".
Again, the OP still has his righteous indignation all aflame because of the use of the word old. And he avoid the point of my post, and still refuses to take his own advice. His asking for an apology reveals a person who is more interested in finding offense. Note that the OP avoids responding to "Take you own advice", and tries to derail this by taking that one word and running with it. Really now.

I have been called old and I never got a case of the vapors over it, nor was I immediately moved to challenge the speaker to a duel. Get over it. Grow up. Bernie is old. I'm old. Carter is old. The OP is old. Pelosi is old. Facts is facts, and nothing short of a youth serum, is going to change that. The entire establishment is old. Hogg is not and he makes a good point - there is no young blood making decisions, and bring their agenda, and there should be.

So that is the question the OP should be asking, not wasting his time yelling at young whipper snappers, taking offense at being called old (Assuming that his offense is real and not feigned) or shouting at clouds. I say Hogg and a few of his generation should be given seats at the table now. For one thing, he has amply proven that his generation is well informed politically. Let the young man speak and be heard.

Really now.

[Kablooie]

70. He's young and has a lot to learn...

But his heart is in the right place.

He has the impatient temperament of youth like those of us from the 60’s and I expect his untethered energy will produce positive things in the future.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

73. Understandably impatient

We've made no progress on the gun control/mass shootings issue in the last two decades, which is the entirety of his life.

[ut oh]

77. Hell, I've been around twice as long (as Mr. Hogg) roughly

and I'm disappointed in our lack of progress on gun control. I see nothing wrong with the desire to shake up the leadership. I spent the last 20+ years in Pelosi's district. I voted for her every time. I have, however, been disappointed in several large issues. The lack of any investigation into the Iraq debacle, 'single-payer' being off the table when working on ACA legislation being a couple of major ones for me. While Mrs. Pelosi certainly has some accomplishments under her belt, it does not mean she is the right person now.

I believe that many in the Dem leadership are definitely out of touch with younger Dem voters, including Pelosi. Hell, I think they are out of touch with me as well (I'm 48). They talk a good game as all politicians do, but the proof is in the results. We lost the house, and the Senate. Dem leadership seems to have just caved on Obama's SC pick. Say what you want, but I saw no actual fight, just some lame speeches.

Furthermore, the current leadership does not negotiate very well IMO. They seem to do some of the GOP negotiating ahead of time, rather than starting with asking for EVERYTHING they want. This is an area where the GOP stomps the current Dem leadership (ie single-payer being off the table). The GOP DEMANDS they get everything they want and the Dems have to whittle it down.

Others make a very good point here too. We need to focus on taking back the House and the Senate, then we can worry about who will become speaker.

[azureblue]

75. Take your own advice

Please get to know your alliances & also your enemies.

Simply apologize.
Thank you

And you should apologize for getting your drawers in a wad for his use of the word "old". Either get some perspective, or quit trying to sow division and discord over one effin word, that, to him, is quite true. I will bet that, to him, you are also "old". Quit making a mountain out of a molehill, and, indeed, Get to know your alliances.

[Wwcd]

78. You owe ME an apology for that nasty personal reply.

Thank you in advance

[melman]

79. No

No they don't. That post was perfectly appropriate.

[R B Garr]

85. So it's perfectly appropriate to call other politicians too old??

Bernie is the same age. I bet it's not okay to call Bernie too old.

[melman]

87. No idea what you're talking about

Sorry.

[R B Garr]

89. That actually makes sense. You have no idea that this thread

is about calling another politician too old, but you do know enough about the thread to agree that an insulting post is okay. Thanks for explaining...

[melman]

90. No

I do know that my post had nothing to do with whatever you're on about.

[R B Garr]

91. Yes, I read your post. Calling politicians too old is apparently okay.

Bernie is the same age.

[melman]

93. Perhaps you should read it again

Because then you'll see that I didn't say that.


Or don't. I really don't care either way. Not playing this game. So sorry.

[R B Garr]

94. I saw your post. I saw what you said to Wwcd. This

thread is about calling a politician too old. I read your post, so sorry.

[George II]

119. When I jump into the middle of a discussion in which I wasn't participating, I make a practice....

....of familiarizing myself with the discussion.

[melman]

122. That's terrific

Sounds like a good policy. Did someone say they didn't do that?

[George II]

124. Yes, it's a great policy.

You said this, "No idea what you're talking about", and then you ask that question?

It's like deja vu all over again.

[melman]

125. Yeah

But where did I say I wasn't familiar with the thread? Nowhere.


I mean, I get that you're pretending that's what I meant there. But it's not. As you certainly know.

[George II]

127. Annnnnd, here we go again. It's been fun, but I'm not playing tonight.

Don't forget to visit the aquarium tomorrow.

[Cha]

103. NO, it's wasn't "perfectly appropriate".

[melman]

112. Yes it was

Right on the money in fact.

[Cha]

113. NO it wasn't.

[melman]

114. Yes it really was

I'm sorry but that's just the way it is.

[Cha]

116. NO.

[melman]

117. Yes

In fact it was. Without a doubt.

[pazzyanne]

115. I've got your back on this one,Wwcd.

I can forgive an 18 year old for his passionate comments. However nasty comments by those old enough to know better offend me no end. People, we need to be working together not dividing ourselves by whatever the current issue being discussed. Be careful of your words. They hold power - to heal or to divide.

[Cha]

88. NO. You're the one who is "getting your drawers in a wad "

because Wwcd is letting David know that Nancy has been on the side of sensible gun laws and on his same path for many years.

[mcar]

97. Pure ageism (and sexism), Cha

No regard for all the contributions Pelosi has made toward sensible gun control.

[Cha]

102. Yes, and it does need to be addressed..

I absolutely think if David Hogg thought about Nancy's record.. he would agree with that.

Mahalo, mcar

[The Flood]

81. Just wait, kid

This kid is cause trouble for no reason. Mid terms elections haven't even happened yet and he's calling her old and ruffling feathers in the party. At least wait till Jan to start this talk.

[Wwcd]

82. Maybe he could start by Naming the Pro-NRA Congresspeople

You know, the "OLD" ones who worked & voted AGAINST Pelosi & the Dems on Anti-gun legislation.

Educate yourself if you're going to step into this pool, Mr Hogg.
Don't shit on your allies. You'll be needing them.


Hope he gets an education by the replies that followed his 'Old Pelosi' posting.

[Cha]

86. An excellent open letter to David Hogg, Wwcd.. it

Last edited Tue Aug 21, 2018, 05:10 PM - Edit history (2)

does need to be pointed out to him who Nancy has stood with all these years!

Thank you!

[hamsterjill]

92. Democrats do not need to be divided.

Anything that divides us right now is a bad thing. You can disagree with Nancy, but don’t insult her for being old. We do not need a war between the older Dems and younger ones. Republicans love this.

Age should not be an issue. Achievements should be. So, like her, hate her, whatever your preference. But don’t let Nancy's age (or David Hogg’s for that matter) be an issue.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

98. I truly hope David Hogg gets this letter.

He needs it. It is perfect.

Thank you 🙏🏾

[hueymahl]

139. Yes, I hope he gets it and it fires him up more

to speak truth to power.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

140. Indeed!

And know who his allies are.

[aikoaiko]

100. This thread makes me chuckle.

Thanks.

[Honeycombe8]

105. What did he tweet, and why did you not put that? Leave the kid alone, will ya.

People are not required to love the same liberals that others love.

[JI7]

106. White Males have been the most Pro Gun

[NurseJackie]

120. Very disappointed in him. I've lost much respect for him...

... and for all those who try to make excuses for this.

[hueymahl]

138. Of course you have

Would expect nothing less.

[NurseJackie]

143. Thank you! It's because I have higher standards...

138. Of course you have
Would expect nothing less.

Thank you! It's because I have higher standards, and because he's behaving like an ageist brat. Any success he hopes to achieve will come from acting like an adult and being respectful of others. Not only is he harming his own reputation, but he's harming his cause and alienating people who share his views. If he's on a quest to become an offensive kook, it will not serve him well.

[bucolic_frolic]

131. He's out over his skis and it's inter-generational strife

The young often don't have a lot of respect for the old. They don't understand wisdom. Wisdom is a measured weighing of issues and experiences over decades of time. I'm never a big fan of young politicians, or young judges. I suppose wisdom begins at different ages in everyone, but I'd say it starts in the 40s - mid to late - to the early 50s for most people. Before wisdom it may be smarts or zealotry, but it's not wisdom.

[Mariana]

144. The young often don't have a lot of respect for the old

and the old often feel nothing but contempt for the young. So it has ever been.

There are plenty of old people who have no wisdom at all. Remember that the majority of voters over 45 cast their ballots for Trump in 2016. That wasn't terribly wise, was it?

[bucolic_frolic]

146. You miss the point

The deplorables are not well-educated people of principle, professionalism, or wisdom - by definition. They represent petty self-interest. Should have stated that aspect of it. Generalizing as a principle of logic - known as universal instantiation - is not a very wise or logically valid method of reasoning, is it?

[Raastan]

133. K + R

[lapucelle]

134. K&R

[Cassidy]

145. Republicans fear Pelosi because she is such an effective leader and because she is female.

Dems shouldn't fall for the trash talk about Pelosi, just like they shouldn't have fallen for the garbage Republicans spewed about H. Clinton.

We are going to need some tested, experienced leaders as well as enthusiastic new people to get us through the difficult times ahead.

[Politicub]

147. Who are you talking to?

The future belongs to the young. I would like to see fresh faces in Congress and have modern, progressive ideas introduced.

I love Nancy. I don’t love this bizarre open letter attacking a Stoneman Douglass survivor.

But I hope you feel better now that you have shared your feelings.

[Tarc]

150. Let's not have hissy fits over word usage, when his general gist was that she's out of touch

Not that I necessarily support or oppose his opinion on Pelosi, but let's not turn this into some insipid "OMG AGEIST" nonsense.

[dlk]

151. Apparently, the Misogyny Lessons From 2016 Still Need Teaching

[Wwcd]

154. Thank you & apparently those lessons don't want to be learned by those who find them

"Politically useful".

We know who they are...


SPEAKER PELOSI'S 14 year record on fighting the RW NRA Lobby from legalizing guns & with it, the murder of innocents.

READ EVERY WORD of 3 PAGES Mr Hogg then come tell us how you really feel about Speaker Pelosi.

You'll need Pelosi's alliance as you challenge the RW NRA.
Hers is as close to your own as you can get.

And NO, you cannot legislate your plans alone.

Start Here:
https://votesmart.org/candidate/public-statements/26732/nancy-pelosi/37/guns#.W32JVHNOk0O

[FlightRN]

152. November is very close

We are in a place where we cannot afford anymore infighting. Period. This young man is seven years my junior, I know how much my mind and critical thinking skills have grown and changed in those seven years. And I was not a victim of a school shooting.

The republicans are pulling out all the stops to try to divide us, we honestly have to put some of these things aside and not conflate them any further.

If we are not on the same page, we need to let that stand and remember we are still all reading from the same book.

[Wwcd]

155. Indeed. He needs to know his Ageist comment supports his NRA enemies

Educating himself as to who his true alliances are would be a great step towards his maturing into a future politician.


https://votesmart.org/candidate/public-statements/26732/nancy-pelosi/37/guns#.W32JVHNOk0O