Man Gets 30 Days for Collecting Runoff, Rainwater (permit required to collect raindrops)

[Liberal_in_LA]

Man Gets 30 Days for Collecting Runoff, Rainwater

August 9, 2012

Gary Harrington, the Oregon man convicted of collecting rainwater and snow runoff on his rural property surrendered Wednesday morning to begin serving his 30-day, jail sentence in Medford, Ore.

“I’m sacrificing my liberty so we can stand up as a country and stand for our liberty,” Harrington told a small crowd of people gathered outside of the Jackson County (Ore.) Jail.

Several people held signs that showed support for Harrington as he was taken inside the jail.

Harrington was found guilty two weeks ago of breaking a 1925 law for having, what state water managers called “three illegal reservoirs” on his property. He was convicted of nine misdemeanors, sentenced to 30 days in jail and fined over $1500 for collecting rainwater and snow runoff on his property.

http://reason.com/24-7/2012/08/09/man-gets-30-days-for-collecting-runoff-r

[sadbear]

1. If it's from Reason, there's probably A LOT more to the story.

Libertarian e-rag.

[Liberal_in_LA]

5. more here:

Water resources officials say his rights are clear: He cannot store water without a permit, and he does not have a permit.

The law exempts water collected off parking lots or rooftops and funneled into rain barrels, water resources officials say. If it’s not gathered on an artificial, impervious surface, such as a rooftop, then you need a state water-right permit to collect it.

That’s way different than the roughly 40 acre-feet of water — enough to fill 20 Olympic-sized swimming pools — Harrington illegally captures without a water right behind dams as much as 20 feet tall that he built without permits, state officials say.

“Mr. Harrington has operated these three reservoirs in flagrant violation of Oregon law for more than a decade,” Oregon Water Resources Department Deputy Director Tom Paul says.

“What we’re after is compliance with Oregon water law, regardless of what the public thinks of Mr. Harrington,” Paul says.

http://earthfix.opb.org/water/article/the-state-of-oregon-vs-rain-man/

[ProgressiveEconomist]

38. Enough for 20 Olympic-sized swimming pools? I'd call that diverting

natural run-off from neighboring farms.

What could he possibly be DOING with hoarded reservoirs of that size? He''s not irrigating crops with that much storage of water.

[greyl]

43. Thanks for that important clarification! :)

Almost rec'd this thing.

[JPZenger]

58. He is allowed to collect rain from his roof

If you read further down, there are links explaining that this was a dam and a lake, not just collecting water from the roof of his house. The articles below explain that collecting rain from your roof is legal in this situation.

I seem to remember a story from Colorado a couple years ago where a homeowner WAS fined for collecting water from his own roof. Now that's an injustice.

[frylock]

23. yeah, i had somehow "liked" them on facebook..

after a month of their bullshit i couldn't unlike them fast enough.

[rfranklin]

2. Just wait until all the water supplies are privatized...

They will be able to come onto your property and shoot you.

[Zalatix]

40. Pretty much. This is groundwork being laid for corporate control of water.

[XemaSab]

42. This has been the law in the west for over a century

The Clean Water Act has been around for 40 years.

The article in the OP mischaracterizes what was going on.

[Javaman]

73. It's enormously apparent you didn't read the article.nt

[nc4bo]

3. When even the water on your property isn't your water....ain't that a b..

1925 law that no one thought was obsolete?

Illegal reservoirs - is he a farmer? raise livestock? raise fish?

Hmmmm.....weird.

[SoCalDem]

9. rainbarrels okay...building diversionary dams..not ok..n/t

[nc4bo]

15. We have some pretty impressive irrigation ponds here.

Some are actually huge, some are just for fishin', not a problem.


Edit! Ok reading more and now I get it.

Thanks.

[yellowcanine]

53. Water on your property is not yours in most states, not just out West.

Difference is that in most Eastern states, water is a "commonwealth", (just like air) and water rights cannot be bought and sold. Property owners have a right to "reasonable" use of ground and surface water on their properties. But there are limits. If they want to create impoundments (as this guy did - the "rain barrels" is a joke), or irrigate crops with the water above a threshold level, they need permits.

[progressivebydesign]

4. more to the story, as usual. It's not like a rain bucket.. it's diverting rainwater into ponds.

Big diff. The other way it's headlined, isn't accurate to the story. but hell, it's red meat for the libertarians.

[CanonRay]

6. I have to say these laws against collecting rainwater are nuts

some places in Colorado, you can't have a recycling barrell for your rain gutters to use in your garden. This guy may or may not be a libertarian, but even a broke clock is right twice a day.

[MattBaggins]

27. You can't divert your neighbors water

[CanonRay]

57. Even if it's falling on my own house and land?

Sorry, but that makes no sense to me. How is that my neighbors' water?

[LanternWaste]

59. I don't think 20 Olympic sized swimming pools worth of run-off comes from only one house

I don't think 20 Olympic sized swimming pools worth of run-off comes from only one house...

[CanonRay]

61. My point is, in some places even the runoff from your own house is illegal to keep

which I think is nuts.

[MattBaggins]

78. In many of those places I have no sympathy for the people

If you move out into the middle of a desert with protected waterways don't start crying when you are told you can't touch the local water.

We have the damn opposite up here in NY where people buy up land with swamps, fens, and marshes; are told at purchase they are protected wetlands, and yet still manage to scream and piss themselves when they can't fill it in or alter it. Whaaaa I bought 100 acres of Lake Ontario marshland and damn it the nanny state won't let me convert it to yet another McMansion housing development.

Gumint... wargle wargle... property.. huff huff huff.. mine mine mine.

[closeupready]

67. Possession is 9/10's of the law. If it's mine before it's your's,

it's not my "neighbors water".

[struggle4progress]

70. Keep the day job: you won't win any western water rights cases

[MattBaggins]

75. Mine mine mine mine

Hundreds of years of water rights codified into law, and people still think it's about me me me.

[closeupready]

76. I saw it on The Partridge Family.

Danny Bonaduce. 1977. Look it up.

[Javaman]

74. ahhh, yet another that didn't read the article. nt

[maxsolomon]

7. This is about saving a run of Salmon

Jackhole farmer here hoards his water, flows downstream can't support the run.

They're endangered, and the local tribes have fishing rights treaties, so the Feds have to try and save them. A compact was made. He's not obeying the agreement.

Liberty my ass. The future of the planet's food supply is at stake.

[TwilightGardener]

8. You cannot collect roof rainwater in Colorado, without special circumstances

and a permit. The water that falls on your property is not yours--it must be allowed to flow away. You have no right to divert it for your own use or collect it. Crazy, but true.

[TlalocW]

10. So if you sat in your front yard...

Either with a glass that you periodically sip from or just with your mouth open and pointed to the sky, could you be busted?

TlalocW

[TwilightGardener]

13. Heh--I suppose. Water rights are so stringent here, common sense doesn't even matter.

I'm sure if the Division of Water could figure out a way to force those of us without surface water rights to pave our properties so that precious raindrops don't get "wasted" in our unworthy soil, they would.

[SoCalDem]

11. When we lived in Aurora, we just bought new trashcans

and left the lids off when it rained..

[Liberal_in_LA]

12. lol

[TwilightGardener]

14. Ooops! Damn kids left the lids off again! When will they learn?

[newfie11]

35. Very true

And I find it appalling

[closeupready]

68. Have these laws been tested in court?

My guess would be that they haven't been.

I would enjoy seeing such laws thrown out, post-haste.

[Javaman]

77. Colorado Bill Legalizes Rainwater Harvesting 2009

Colorado Bill Legalizes Rainwater Harvesting
http://earth911.com/news/2009/07/03/colorado-bill-legalizes-rainwater-harvesting/

Colorado just came one step closer to making rainwater harvesting a legal option for more of its residents.

Before the new law allowing rainwater collection was passed, it was illegal in Colorado to gather rainwater and snowmelt that fell from a rooftop, patio or driveway into barrels.

Rainwater harvesting occurs when storm water runoff is diverted from flowing to the ground and instead put to beneficial use by the rainwater harvester. However, in the western U.S., unlike in the East, capturing rainwater is generally illegal due to the prior appropriation doctrine that governs water.


Gray water can be used to increase soil moisture in your garden or even supply your home's water needs, getting one step closer to going off the grid. Often called the “first in time, first in right” priority system, the first person to allocate and use water is the senior water right holder within a particular stream system. Therefore, taking water from your roof is akin to stealing from downstream water right holders.

more at link...

[TwilightGardener]

82. Yep--but you need to be able to obtain a well permit for the property, and have no other

water provider (what I meant above by "special circumstances&quot --which excludes most people, really.

[panader0]

16. These laws are everywhere.

What about the people downstream from him who are cut off from the water by his dams? A natural occuring watercourse is not supposed to dammed up. 40 acre feet is a lot of water.

[MattBaggins]

28. but but but but it's his almighty PROPERTY

[struggle4progress]

17. ... Big Butte Creek is considered a “closed system,” meaning that no water can be diverted

within the drainage after the city of Medford filed on the entire basin for water rights back in 1925 ...

Water storage issue heats up again
August 6, 2012 By Ralph McKechnie for the Independent
http://www.urindependent.com/2012/08/water-storage-issue-heats-up-again/

[midnight]

46. Is that a pic of the water he collected?

[struggle4progress]

65. It seems to be one of his impoundments: views of this particular pond

can be found in discussions of Harrington on "property rights" websites/videos

[midnight]

86. Ok... I'm thinking a rain barrel or something... This guy needs to show drought ridden areas how to

collect... That should be his community service project... His obviously has a talent..

[struggle4progress]

18. ... Gary Harrington was convicted on nine counts of water misuse after he built dams

to collect water from channels that would have flowed into a local river ... OWRD said that he had constructed two 10-foot dams and one 20-foot dam ... While it is legal to collect rainwater off of surfaces like roofs or tarps, property owners need to obtain permits before altering or collecting flowing bodies of water ...
Eagle Point man jailed for illegal water reservoirs
By KVAL News Published: Jul 29, 2012 at 2:58 PM PDT
http://www.kpic.com/news/local/Eagle-Point-man-jailed-for-illegal-water-reservoirs-164206356.html

[struggle4progress]

19. At 13 feet deep and well over an acre in size, one of Gary Harrington's three illegal reservoirs

off Crowfoot Road looks more like a private playground than a rain-fed, backyard fire pond ...

Jackson County Circuit Judge Timothy Gerking last month ordered Harrington to drain the ponds, breach the dams built to create them and pay $1,500 in fines ...

Water resources officials say his rights are clear: He cannot store water without a permit, and he does not have a permit.

The law exempts water collected off parking lots or rooftops and funneled into rain barrels, water resources officials say. If it's not gathered on an artificial, impervious surface, such as a rooftop, then you need a state water-right permit to collect it ...

The State of Oregon v. Rain Man
Gary Harrington's 11-year battle with the state over his reservoirs continues to make waves
August 05, 2012
By Mark Freeman
Mail Tribune
http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120805/NEWS/208050318

[Marrah_G]

20. what...the...fuck

Our city encourages rain barrels and sells them to the public cheap.

[sadbear]

21. Dude had a VERY BIG rain barrel.

The size of 20 Olympic-size pools.

[Marrah_G]

24. doh, i missed that part

[MattBaggins]

30. You were meant to miss it

This story has been doctored to make this guy out as a martyr and the right wing blogosphere has been echoing it.

[frylock]

22. this asshole built 3 dams to divert water..

ffs people, you're going to take this libertarian ass wipe publication at face value?!

[MattBaggins]

25. He was illegaly tampering with and altering a watershed

[closeupready]

69. Vague and ambiguous. Unconstitutional.

[Kaleva]

26. Apparently this guy is a darling of libertarians

From an article I found by google searching:

"Tom Paul, administrator of the Oregon Water Resources Department, is an obedient water Nazi. He insists, "Oregon law that says all of the water in the state of Oregon is public water and if you want to use that water, either to divert it or to store it, you have to acquire a water right from the state of Oregon before doing that activity.""

and

"Do not fall for the disinformation campaigns being waged on this issue by the Oregon communists and socialists who believe no individual has any right to anything."

In the paragraph below, the author actually gives a very good reason why Oregon has such laws.

"That Jackson County officials actually criminalize permaculture practices is abhorrent to not only the green movement on the left, but also the Libertarians and Constitutionalists on the right. Much like in California, Oregon County officials are lying, power-hungry tyrants who falsely accuse Harrington of "diverting" stream water when, in reality, he was only capturing water that normally flows off his own property and later joins the stream."

Emphasis mine.

Imagine the potential environmental chaos that would take place if large private landowners, corporate farms and ranches did this?

All the above quotes came from an article linked below.

http://www.naturalnews.com/036615_Oregon_rainwater_permaculture.html

[hunter]

29. The guy is a thief. Tear down his dams and throw him in jail.

I'll repeat what I said in a previous thread:

Oregon is a western state., dry in most places. There's simply not enough water that anyone can be allowed to take it just because it's crossing their property.

Water laws are crazy, convoluted, and often unfair, but they are still better than anarchy or a free market.

The lines have to be drawn somewhere, and this guy crossed them. In the absence of messy and hard won legal mechanisms the rivers of Oregon would be flowing through Southern California.

[Fire Walk With Me]

31. Fun water as business fact: Enron were looking into privatizing water supplies.

Hooray!

[MineralMan]

32. Read The Milagro Beanfield War.

It's a classic about water rights and disputes over them. If you haven't read it, get a copy and read it. John Nichols is the author.

[KamaAina]

72. Also a movie directed by Robert Redford

[MineralMan]

85. Yup. The movie wasn't as good as the book, though.

Unfortunately.

[joshcryer]

33. I guess they can take the sky from me...

...

[Ilsa]

34. Looks to me like he was stealing other people's water. nt

[blaze]

36. The Colorado River Delta

It's pretty sad really.

Verdant farmland.... gone

[ellenfl]

37. i could be mistaken but i believe water rights laws are pretty much the same everywhere.

you cannot stop water from flowing to your neighbor . . . unless your protecting him from a flood. considering the water wars of our early history, it's easy to see how these laws evolved.

ellen fl

[struggle4progress]

39. maybe not: the arid west might have a somewhat different legal regime

than the more watery places in the country

[ellenfl]

44. all the more reason why you should not be able to prevent water

from getting to your also arid neighbor. those areas with plenty of water would not have that issue.

ellen fl

[Rhiannon12866]

41. When I was a kid, I collected rain water for my frogs and turtles

I didn't want to give them chlorinated water from the faucet...

[midnight]

45. Yet backwater sells secrets to countries all over the world and they are not prosecuted...

[hatrack]

47. Bullshit story, already debunked. He was illegally building dams and diverting streams

Tough shit for Mr. Harrington.

Western water law is well established and very clear, and he violated it.

[yellowcanine]

54. Not just Western water law. You can't impound water and divert streams in the East either without

a permit. But you are correct, this is a bs story and has nothing to do with rain barrels.

[Broderick]

48. link to google pic of his runoff reservoirs

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=MM&Date=20120805&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=208050318&Ref=V1&MaxW=570&MaxH=370&border=0

[UnrepentantLiberal]

50. Holly shit!

Fuck him.

[Broderick]

51. He created a couple private lakes

I see that in some areas where folks have man made lakes on their property. Some are quite large. Going up I39 there is a few farms in Illinois I saw with boats and docks on them right off the interstate. Clearly man made and possibly even bigger than this guy's lakes.

[hunter]

64. Many of those holes were dug to get fill dirt for the highway and overpasses.

Historically Illinois is wet enough that these holes fill with water.

Mr. Farmer, we're building this highway, we need some dirt, would you like a pond?

Similar holes in the dryer western states rarely have water in them. Most of the time they're just dry holes.

[Broderick]

66. Well that explains it

I often wondered if it was a outdoing the Jones' type thing.

[Liberal_in_LA]

56. lol. that's kinda of awesome. Create your own lake.

[JVS]

62. This kind of thing can lead to disasters when the home-engineered dam system falls apart.

[struggle4progress]

71. Google-Earthers: fly to 1876 Crowfoot Rd Eagle Point OR

[treestar]

49. That law was passed for a reason

He can obey the laws of his jurisdiction just like everyone else. I find these whiners annoying.

[suffragette]

52. Reason.com is a Koch funded propaganda site

It's part of Reason Foundation.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Reason_Foundation


Best to always examine why they would pick and spin a topic a certain way.

In this case, the story is presented as a the small local man against big government.

And they don't include the points others have raised upthread about the amounts being collected by this man, leaving it seem as if it's an amount smaller than it is.




Different picture if looked at through the lens of public needs vs private ones.


Here's an article with some more info that sheds light about that. I added the bold:

http://www.oregonlegaljournal.com/?p=321
At issue is the interpretation of the 1925 state law that gave the water commission exclusive rights to all the water in Big Butte Creek, its tributaries and Big Butte Springs. That’s core of the city’s municipal water supply.

Harrington has argued in court documents that he’s not diverting water from the creek system, but capturing rainwater and snowmelt from his 172-acre property along Crowfoot Road. He maintained that the runoff does not fall under the state’s jurisdiction and does not violate the 1925 act.

Water managers have said the runoff is a tributary of nearby Crowfoot Creek and thus subject to the law.



Hmm, now what interest would the Koch's have in pushing this story and siding with the rights of a private entity to capture and control what is currently defined in western law as public water for use by the municipality?

And what might they do if current law if changed, especially since to key elements here look to be private collection/diversion and the size of the amounts kept?

[Gabi Hayes]

55. remember this? huge business for privateers:

http://www.google.com/search?q=souvenaid+ingredients&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#sclient=tablet-gws&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&tbo=d&q=privatize+rainwater+bolivia&oq=privatize+rainwater+bolivia&gs_l=tablet-gws.3...4319.28259.0.30304.47.26.0.16.16.13.798.4727.3j17j0j3j1j0j1.26.0.les%3B..0.0...1ac.mAshh2h-k_Y&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=12f3a3f2cd48643f&biw=768&bih=900

[Octafish]

60. Spaceballs

Perri-Air's comin' real soon. Too bad ol' ENRON's not around.

[nichomachus]

63. The minute someone starts hollering about "sacrificing my liberty"

you know they're a Bagger

[struggle4progress]

79. ... In 1925, the legislature withdrew all waters within that watershed from appropriation

other than for the use and benefit of the City of Medford, subject to pre-existing water rights ...
HARRINGTON v. WATER RESOURCES DEPARTMENT
Argued and Submitted Aug. 21, 2007. -- November 07, 2007
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/or-court-of-appeals/1347290.html

[Yeah Its Spin]

80. just filling a barrel to water the garden...

http://www.kdrv.com/odf-has-used-harrington-ponds-for-fires/

[Liberal_in_LA]

84. yikes. He's creating his own great lake. looks like the authorities were glad the lake existed

when they needed water for firefighting.

The Oregon Department of Forestry says that Big Butte Creek has also been of extreme value to them in fighting forest fires. Fire agencies have legal right to use water from anywhere near the fire lines and officials say they make use of all nearby sources in order to get their job done.

“They are opportunistic on being able to get a hold of water that they need. Heck they have even taken water out of swimming pools,” said Brian Ballou of the Oregon Department of Forestry.

In a twist to the story, ODF has previously used the reservoirs utilized by Harrington to battle fires in the area

[Yeah Its Spin]

81. another view...

http://www.a1social.com/wp-content/themes/goodnews/framework/scripts/timthumb.php?src=&h=330&w=580&zc=1

[Shrike47]

83. This is Harrington's 3rd conviction for the same crime

Medford is a hot, dry area. The City of Medford has owned the water rights he was infringing since 1925. He was convicted in a jury trial.

I guess he figures as long as he can ride around in his boats, the hell with anybody else getting a drink of water. They should be rich like him and make their own lake.