Security Clearances Are NOT Rewards!

[MineralMan]

They're just affirmations that a person is considered to be trustworthy. Taking someone's security clearance away, after they have stopped working directly with classified materials is NOT a punishment, either. Trump is a moron!

At one point in my life, while in the USAF, I had a TOP SECRET clearance. Over time, due to a specific talent I had, more and more compartmented materials endorsements to that clearance were made. By the time I was discharged from the USAF after completion of my enlistment period, I could pretty much see anything about anything, even though I rarely had any need for those endorsements.

I was a 24 year old guy when I left the USAF and the NSA building where I finished out my enlistment. I had to sign all sorts of things. I had travel restrictions that had no time limits on them. None of that mattered to me at all. I didn't EARN any of that stuff. It was just that I was considered to be a reliable person who wouldn't reveal any classified information. My clearance wasn't a reward of some kind. It was just a requirement of the jobs I had. And after I left the USAF, I still wouldn't have revealed anything. I was still trustworthy, and that's all those clearances are about.

Trump is trying to use the removal of a clearance as some sort of punishment. That's just ridiculous. If a person is no longer in a job that requires dealing with classified information, the clearance is meaningless. Taking it away does nothing. Such a person is still the same trustworthy person as before, and still won't reveal information. Removing a clearance means nothing in real terms.

Our President is an idiot. Of all the people who are authorized to see classified information in our government, he is by far the least trustworthy. There are thousands of enlisted members of the military who have high level security clearances who are far more trustworthy than the POTUS.

[The Genealogist]

1. Happens in all kinds of jobs

I work for a hospital system. We have a large number of programs people use, with varying degrees of access, depending on your job. If you change jobs, they are going to revoke access to some of what you had access to, because you don't need it anymore. If I change from biller to coder, and don't bill anymore, they are going to revoke my access to the billing software. It isn't a punishment.

[MineralMan]

2. Exactly. With regard to classified information,

the real issue is "need to know." If you don't need to have access to something to do whatever your job is, you don't have access to it. The various clearance levels simply establish the maximum level of access you have if you need it to do your job.

Your clearance level may be increased, as needed, if you need to know information with a higher level of classification. Once you have a basic TOP SECRET clearance, additional access authorization is for specific types of information. At that level, much of classification is about compartmentalizing information to limit the total number of people who access it.

I got moved around a lot and often found myself dealing with different types of information. Each time that happened, I got cleared for that specific type of information. Eventually, the list of compartments I could look into grew very long. None of that mattered to me. It was all just classified, as far as I was concerned, and I wasn't going to do anything but the job I had with it.

It only mattered within the organizations. I always thought it was sort of funny, really, that some kid in his 20s was believed to be trustworthy enough to work with stuff like I did. But, that's how all of that stuff works. They trust you, and that's enough, I guess. But, how do they know, really? That question has no good answer, which is one of the weakest points of intelligence operations, really.

[Fred Sanders]

13. Great post, not near enough recs. or views. Fucking badge of honor, not an insult as the media

wants to portray it.

[Wounded Bear]

3. It's actually an obligation...

as you describe, it's not a boon dispensed by the Grand Poobah.

I had a Secret clearance with Confidential access during my tenure in the USMC because I worked on a fire control system for front line aircraft. I didn't have to sign any NDA type disclosure forms when I left, but like I said, I was a low level staff NCO working on a soon to be obsolete radar and missile control system.

Trump's an idiot and has defined another area where he is in far over his depth.

[MineralMan]

4. We all seem to agree that Trump's an idiot.

Truly, I doubt a security clearance investigation would give him much access. But, Presidents automatically are cleared for virtually any access. That could be a mistake, in Trump's case. He's likely to reveal information on a whim to anyone, including Putin. He probably actually has already done so, and doesn't even know it. He is too stupid and loose-lipped to hold a clearance, IMO.

[Wounded Bear]

5. That should probably be changed somehow...

though I'm not sure how. It's not covered in the Constitution, of course. But it seems like candidates should pass some kind of test before they're allowed to run. Of course we kind of ask the voters to vet the candidates, and we see how that has worked out.

[MineralMan]

6. I don't know how it could be changed really.

Amendments to the Constitution are very difficult to pass. And that's what it would take. I think we're stuck with this problem, frankly.

[mitch96]

7. "We all seem to agree that Trump's an idiot."

He wanted to "hurt" Brennan some how for his remarks. Little effect. The only person who will benefit from this tit for tat bull is Putin.. Just whittling away at our gov't structure that can harm Russia. The more spies and gov't officials that hurt russia that are put away, the better it is for putin.... Trump is a russian asset...
m

[kskiska]

8. In this country anyone can become president, regardless of who they are.

In other countries their candidates are people who have been schooled in diplomacy. Not just any ordinary Joe can attain a leadership title.

[bdamomma]

9. with this idiot

we have now he has tarnished the role of President and the reputation of our country. That's what happens when you have another country interfering with our elections and those in the Congress have gone rogue.

[MineralMan]

11. We can hope that voters will have learned from Trump.

I have that hope. Most of our Presidents have been more or less OK, with regard to security and intelligence. Trump is really the first who should never have access to classified material, I think.

If we learn from Trump, that will be a good thing. I hope we do.

[ProudLib72]

10. Were you aware that Kushner has double secret clearance?

Or is that double secret probation?

Rump is today's Dean Wormer!

[MineralMan]

12. Kushner is another person whose shady business dealings

should have kept him from being cleared at that level. He owes too much to too many. Some of them are dangerous to our country. Same with Trump.

[Totally Tunsie]

14. It is still astounding to me

Last edited Fri Aug 17, 2018, 05:27 PM - Edit history (1)

that high governmental officials are not required to have a security clearance, specifically the President, VP, Cabinet members and Congress. Considering the breadth of their jobs and responsibilities as well as the level of importance of the information to which they are exposed, one would think that those positions should be the very ones that require such clearance. It seems counter-intuitive that they do not.

In contrast:
Quite a while ago, I worked for a defense contractor in California and held at first a Secret Clearance, later upgraded to Top Secret-SAR (Special Access Required). While the overall project on which I was working was at the Top Secret level, the specific information I handled never seemed to be of that grade; but it was the mere possibility that I might be exposed to TS-SAR info that necessitated my particular clearance. In fact, much of what I handled has, over the years, become relatively public information. We were told early on that each of us in the project would purposely work with just a minute piece of it so that we would not be in risk of divulging too much if we fell into enemy clutches. They made sure to put the far of God and government into you!

And, yes - tRump is an idiot.