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Wed Jul 11, 2018, 06:32 PM

 

Many white people still harbor bias and prejudice against black people,

intentionally or not. An abundance of polls show this to be a fact.

That does not mean that you, white person, personally hold these biases and prejudices.

But it is up to all to acknowledge it, address it, and discuss it.

Change doesn't happen until enough people are willing to acknowledge, address, and change. Refusing such dialogue, or worse, ignoring such dialogue, deflects from the much needed discussions to bring about change.

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Reply Many white people still harbor bias and prejudice against black people, (Original post)
NY_20th Jul 2018 OP
bettyellen Jul 2018 #1
NY_20th Jul 2018 #8
bettyellen Jul 2018 #23
still_one Jul 2018 #2
potone Jul 2018 #10
still_one Jul 2018 #13
Wounded Bear Jul 2018 #3
NY_20th Jul 2018 #6
WhiskeyGrinder Jul 2018 #4
NY_20th Jul 2018 #7
EffieBlack Jul 2018 #21
saidsimplesimon Jul 2018 #5
NY_20th Jul 2018 #9
aikoaiko Jul 2018 #11
NY_20th Jul 2018 #12
aikoaiko Jul 2018 #15
NY_20th Jul 2018 #16
mythology Jul 2018 #14
NY_20th Jul 2018 #17
EffieBlack Jul 2018 #18
nolabear Jul 2018 #19
WhiskeyGrinder Jul 2018 #26
nolabear Jul 2018 #29
NY_20th Jul 2018 #27
nolabear Jul 2018 #30
NY_20th Jul 2018 #32
Lisa0825 Jul 2018 #20
cachukis Jul 2018 #37
TomSlick Jul 2018 #22
mcar Jul 2018 #24
McCamy Taylor Jul 2018 #25
virgogal Jul 2018 #28
annabanana Jul 2018 #31
caraher Jul 2018 #33
IronLionZion Jul 2018 #34
whistler162 Jul 2018 #35
Garrett78 Jul 2018 #36
NY_20th Jul 2018 #38
R B Garr Jul 2018 #39
NY_20th Jul 2018 #40

Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 06:38 PM

1. Yes, and if your immediate reaction is "not me" then perhaps you actually are so self involved that

 

youíre having trouble actually understanding the effects of lifelong systemic racism. Because your discomfort about the conversation isnít remotely as important, and youíre derailing important conversations for purely self serving reasons.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #1)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 06:47 PM

8. Well said.

 

Thank you.

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Response to NY_20th (Reply #8)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:20 PM

23. You're very welcome.

 

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 06:38 PM

2. 40% of the populous still support and approve of Trump. In 2016 there was no secret that Trump was

a racist, sexist, bigot, and yet people still voted for him well aware of that fact

That speaks for itself



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Response to still_one (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 06:55 PM

10. Yes, it does.

After the election I realized that there must have been a large number of white people who were seething with rage for the entire time that Obama was president. They just couldnít wait to vote for a white man who embodies everything that Obama is not. Add to that the fact that his opponent was a woman, and that is what has led us to this atrocious state of affairs.

Our only hope now is Mueller; even if we take back the House, we still would need control of the Senate unless the evidence against Trump is overwhelming.

Iím sorry to sound so gloomy, but I have never felt such fear for this country and the world.

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Response to potone (Reply #10)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:02 PM

13. I agree with your assessment except I wouldn't count on Mueller. The only hope we have now is

November 2018

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 06:39 PM

3. As a white person, I have come to realize that I have this problem...

I was raised in an environment when racist and ethnic humor was common. There were not a lot of black kids in my neighborhoods or schools as I grew up. None in grade school that I remember, maybe a couple in high school, at least one of which transferred in and immediately became a star athlete. Imagine that.

So, yes, I have to consciously try to treat people with respect sometimes, and I have to watch myself to keep from spewing racist comments should I get angry for some imagined slight. Things we learn as children are difficult to overcome later in life.

The corrolary, though, was that there were quite a few Koreans and Japanese around, though I can't with any truth describe how they were treated day to day.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #3)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 06:45 PM

6. Many of us were raised in that same environment.

 

It takes a conscious effort by all of us to recognize that fact, acknowledge it and address it.

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 06:39 PM

4. I have racist thoughts and reactions all the time. Anyone who was raised in the white hegemony of

this culture and says they never do is someone I have a hard time trusting.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 06:46 PM

7. It's ingrained. Unless it's recognized, it won't stop.

 

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:15 PM

21. You're right. Anyone who says they don't is either lying or has no self-awareness.

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 06:45 PM

5. Many more people have a bias and prejudice

against women of all colors. Can we unite to defeat the monsters first? Women have been waiting for justice for centuries.

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Response to saidsimplesimon (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 06:48 PM

9. Ingrained sexism is also an issue.

 

But why not fight all?

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 06:55 PM

11. How can white people harbor bias, but a white person doesn't?


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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 06:57 PM

12. I'm sorry, I'm not following what you are asking.

 

?

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Response to NY_20th (Reply #12)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:02 PM

15. Let me put these sentences from the OP together.


Many white people still harbor bias and prejudice against black people, intentionally or not.

That does not mean that you, white person, personally hold these biases and prejudices.



I think the truth is that me, white person, does personally hold these biases and prejudices. And I think most do.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:05 PM

16. Right. Which is why I didn't say all white people do.

 

But the truth is that many white people do. That fact cannot be ignored.

It's great that you, personally don't. But that doesn't change the fact that many white people do.

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Response to aikoaiko (Reply #11)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:02 PM

14. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares

 

My response to the OP is that all people have biases. On the psych studies where you have to identify a tool or a weapon after seeing a black face, all races show a biases towards seeing a weapon. Our society has ingrained racism and racisl animus more deeply than we realize, much of it unconscious.

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Response to mythology (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:07 PM

17. Yes, much of it is unconscious,

 

which is why we need to acknowledge, accept and address it.

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:08 PM

18. Thank you.

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:13 PM

19. We have to be able to accept this with humility and not shame.

I donít mean that prejudice isnít a thing to feel guilt or embarrassment about and itís wise to feel shame about past acts and injustices. But shame shuts down higher functions. It assumes attack is likely and creates paralysis followed by rage because hey, if Iím paralyzed I canít do anything but be enraged at whomever ďmadeĒ me feel this way.

Humility takes strength and a willingness to ask ďhow can I, a person who tries to do good, lose track of my own prejudices and how can I do better?Ē And if you donít stick to that humility, even in the face of anger and attack-because some people are very angry and hurt-then you canít work through that and find a way to hear and speak.

When I counseled couples it was vital that I could get them to trust that I would help them keep going until both people could first figure out what was underneath the anger and express it without being attacked, and that i would not abandon the process until they both felt theyíd said everything they neede to say and felt understood. As I said, it takes real strength and humility to hear the pain youíve caused another, particularly when you donít get it at first.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #19)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:26 PM

26. I wish white people had a vocabulary and a framework to talk about their own instilled racist

thoughts and feelings with each other to work on them, to examine the roots without rancor or demanding that POC do the heavy lifting (explaining, educating, absolving) for them. It's heartbreaking that our culture disparages things like humility, vulnerability, honesty and growth so viciously.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #26)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:50 PM

29. That's something worth working on.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #19)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:27 PM

27. That's very good advice.

 

I believe it was humility and not shame that caused me to evaluate my learned behavior.

It hit me hard when I realized I was brought up and raised, not necessarily through my family, but through society, to have such feelings.

How can I conquer it, and how can I do better? As well as how can I get others to open their eyes and see the injustice.

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Response to NY_20th (Reply #27)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:53 PM

30. Oh, probably do a lot of the first and think hard about the second.

Itís really easy imo to ďget religionĒ and cover up ones issues rather than facing them by taking the more out of your neighborís eye, so to speak. At least, in spite of my spate of advice giving here, I try to relearn every day what Iíve forgotten from the day before.

But we can, I hope, try together.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #30)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:10 PM

32. Sound logic, of course.

 

But frustrating of course for those who wish to be the spark that allows the blind to see.

The reluctance is tough to break through, but the fight to do so may be worth more, now than ever.

I believe that more conversation and dialogue is needed.

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:14 PM

20. Wondering if this is you? take the Implicit Bias Test.

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Response to Lisa0825 (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:45 PM

37. Took that test twice over several years.

On both occasions showed no appreciable bias. I taught in a magnet high school that served the local projects as we'll as the performing arts. Great cross section of kids.

And while I was pleased with the results of the test, I know that under my breath I blame. The human mind needs solutions to its quandaries. Speed kills. It is easier to defensively blame than internally accept responsibility for one's fallibility.

You never break a habit. You can only replace it.

Racism persists because it's a habit. A conscious effort to replace it requires support often therapeutic.

"Where's the money? Where's the dough? Keep moving."

Twenty percent will figure it out. Twenty percent will never. The sixty percent in the middle ended up as c students because.........

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:19 PM

22. There actually is a way to know - the Harvard Implicit Bias Test.

You might be surprised at the results.

[link:https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/takeatest.html|

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:22 PM

24. Yes!

No need for the defensiveness.

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 07:22 PM

25. And in Rwanda Hutu hates Tutsi and vice versa. We are all products of our environment.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #25)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:47 PM

28. Exactly-----and Koreans don't exactly love the Japanese.

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 08:54 PM

31. It's true

Honest discussions among friends is necessary.

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:14 PM

33. I'm glad to see people linking the implicit bias tests

While the OP generously says, "That does not mean that you, white person, personally hold these biases and prejudices," the truth is more complicated. This is certainly true of conscious biases and prejudices, but the research shows that these things operate on al of us, to varying degrees, independent of our conscious beliefs, whether we are white or not (though obviously there's a different way a given bias plays out in one's life depending on one's race).

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:25 PM

34. Plenty of DUers have gotten woke through discussion on this forum

and thought about stuff in ways they didn't before. That should be encouraged.

Progress in changing attitudes and behavior often comes one person at a time. Perspective is a powerful thing.

There will always be some people who like having privilege over others and choose to be blind to it because they don't want to give it up. Those folks are a lot more obvious than they think they are.

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Response to NY_20th (Original post)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:32 PM

35. Nice post comrade!

How is the weather in Moscow?

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Response to whistler162 (Reply #35)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:35 PM

36. Pointing out that racism remains a huge problem, and is the driving force behind Trump support...

...somehow makes one a Russian troll?

Odd that.

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Response to whistler162 (Reply #35)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:47 PM

38. If you do not wish to participate in the discussion, fine.

 

You are the perfect example of what I am trying to illustrate.

Perhaps it is you, who is in Moscow. That would explain your refusal to honestly discuss this topic.


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Response to whistler162 (Reply #35)

Wed Jul 11, 2018, 09:49 PM

39. +1, nt

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Response to whistler162 (Reply #35)

Thu Jul 12, 2018, 12:31 AM

40. Do you know who hates to be called out on their racism?

 

Right wingers. They lose their cool every time.

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