Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, "how was the play"? I would like to thank Jill Stein, Susan Sarandon,

[still_one]

and those other self-identified progressives who refused to vote for the Democratic nominee for showing us what IDIOTS you are

John Bolton, Larry Kudlow, Ben Carson, Betsy Devos, and a cast of others would like to thank them also

2018 is our last chance

[dhol82]

1. Do they still think they did the right thing?

Curious to know.

[blake2012]

2. Theyll never admit anything.

[still_one]

4. Unfortunately, I suspect most of them have no remorse

[Hortensis]

173. Righteousness is a wonderful thing.

A lesson for all who imagine that feelings of intense virtue requiring support by intense dishonesty are not limited to the far right.

[Mosby]

184. back in 2000 I had an acquaintance who voted for nader

Tell me "sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better" with a shitty smirk on his face.

I wonder how he feels now.

[Hortensis]

185. :) Hopefully moved upward and onward long ago.

If he's wired "zealot," though, he's probably still too busy trying to stop Democrats to have time for Republicans.

[NurseJackie]

183. It's EXACTLY what Susan Sarandon wanted. Just LOOK at how giddy and animated she is...

... she can barely contain her excitement at the horrors that await us.

[Sherman A1]

3. I like threads like this one

they provide so much information.

[still_one]

5. Well Sherman, if you read the last line of my OP, that said it all

[Bradshaw3]

7. Well I like threads like this one

When you think things can't get worse, they can. And taking back Congress in November is absolutely crucial to our democracy and likely to world peace.

[still_one]

9. I agree. I am extremely concerned

[UCmeNdc]

66. Well, Trump is destroying The United States. Vote the BUM out!

Along with all Republicans. They support Trump without any hesitation.

[progressoid]

57. If the last line says it all, then the previous lines say nothing.

[chwaliszewski]

165. This!

[mountain grammy]

20. I know, right?

[Cha]

34. "2018 is our last chance".. What's wrong with that?

And, what's wrong with pointing out the Liars who own a chunk of trump because of their Lies that "Hillary was more dangerous than trump".

You can roll your eyes all you want but it doesn't change the facts of what happened.

I think it's okay to point out just how full of shite these Liars are.. who suck so many voters in..

Hillary Clinton was more dangerous than Donald Trump: Susan Sarandon

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms

People who voted for Jill Stein were tricked, and we are all paying for it

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms

[mountain grammy]

55. Its not helpful and bad for my blood pressure

and I just don’t see the point in hating and blaming these people forever, so I responded to a post I agree with.
..

[Cha]

72. It's important to point out the LIARS in the 2016

Rigged Election.. so it doesn't happen again in 2020.

You can agree with any post you want of course. I'm pointing out why I disagree.. and I'm glad so many people are not giving cover to stein and ssarandon.

[Demsrule86]

97. It is true...and we better face our situation squarely. John Bolton has advocated for a first

nuclear strike in Korea. He is now national security advisor ...a man who could not even win confirmation in a Bush White house. Now the House traditionally has the right to declare war not the president...time to take back power from what has become an imperial presidency. Our lives are at stake. And 18 is our last chance...as they will ram all sorts of goodies between 18 and 20...we will be luck if we don't end up with a fascist dictator.

I will hate Sarandon, Turner and others...forever. The damage they have caused is incalculable. We are facing nuclear war... a president who has said 'if you have nukes why can't you use them?' is the president and Bolton who wrote a Oped about a 'first strike' is security advisor...and much of the blame can be laid at their door.

Those who claimed the two parties were the 'same' and that Hillary was more of a 'warmonger' than Trump are liars, and we will pay a price for their undue influence and lies during 16. I don't understand how they even have the nerve to show their sorry faces.

[mountain grammy]

131. Whatever works for you.

if hating on certain people gives you peace, then good for you. For me it's exhausting and bad for my health, I know because I tried. My world is full of trumpers, people I once considered good friends. I've learned I can be civil and laugh with them about our grandkids and pets even as I can no longer imagine the level of friendship we once had. I'm finding dealing with people in my own world at my age (70) is quite enough to manage without wasting my emotions on movie stars who I will never meet and never share a cup of coffee with. It's a complete waste of time and energy for me.

[Zen Democrat]

142. 100% agree with you. I assumed that the liberal identity included a forgiving heart.

multitudes of Democrats thought Michael Dukakis ran an inept campaign, among other things
multitudes of Democrats thought Al Gore ran a stiff campaign, aot
multitudes of Democrats thought John Kerry ran a weak campaign, aot
multitudes of Democrats thought Hillary Clinton ran a timid campaign, aot

live and let live should be watchwords of all Democrats from the dogs to the purists

hate should have no home here

[mountain grammy]

143. Hate has no home here.

I see those signs all over Denver and they give me a feeling of peace. I know it's trite and so much easier to hate on people, but hate is what got us here. Enough, already.

[Hekate]

176. Mountain Grammy, I don't hate them, and like you I don't have the energy. But without a reminder...

...I tend to forget the appalling things certain influential people have said and done. This is especially true in the Age of Trump, when chaos swirls on all sides of the presidency, intentionally obscuring everything.

The reminders are okay with me. There are younger people who simply do not remember what Green candidate Ralph Nader said in the 2000 election cycle: "There's not a dime's worth of difference between the Democratic and Republican Parties." Hence, no difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush.

The more I know, the less-innocent he looks. The more I know, the more-culpable Jill Stein looks.

[lark]

127. "Pure" lefties are a big part of the problem and they are too blind to see.

Sarandon still thinks she did the right thing and would do it again, that's how totally deranged she is. They are almost as much of a danger as trumpers because drumpf wouldn't have stolen the election if they had voted for HRC. And the "but it's Hillary"meme is a total cop out and lie. These same asses refused to vote for Kerry and so enabled the awful election of GW. They are the enemy and we need to acknowledge that. It doesn't matter that they have a lot of the same policy goals since they enable to r's to keep power an ensure those policies never happen.

[Cha]

133. Yes, that's important, lark.. sarandon is still spouting

her LIES.. it's NOT in the "past".. as some are trying to push on here.

We don't want a repeat in 2020 but, of course, they'll try again with the same ol shite.. as ssarandon sits in her plush $50 Million surroundings with not a worry in the world.

I don't know what that lying creep stein is worth.

[Cha]

73. There was a LOT of information

in the OP.

You just have to have paid attention in the 2016 GE campaign and election to know that.

[KPN]

170. Yup.

[lunamagica]

6. They are despicable. And will not suffer for what they did

[still_one]

8. The only way this nightmare can stop is 2018, and the odds are still against us

[Demsrule86]

98. We still have a gerrymander in many places...we have to overperform in order to take the House.

[still_one]

102. you are right, but what Alabama showed us with the Lamb victory, it can be done

[charlyvi]

146. Lamb was victorious in PA18.

Alabama showed us that Doug Jones won his Senate race.

[still_one]

147. Thank-you.

[charlyvi]

169. No problem.

[arthritisR_US]

10. 2018 is so bloody important but l am

truly afraid about the integrity of your elections. Those third party assholes can FO!

[still_one]

14. so am I arthritisR. Here in California, the top two who get the most votes, run against each other

in the general election. The problem is in several republican districts there are too many Democrats running against each other, and only one or two republicans in those districts. That means there is a very real potential for the Democrats to take votes away from each other, so the top two votes could very likely go to the republicans in that district, and we need as many Democrats to win as possible

but you already know that, and we are on the same page

[arthritisR_US]

37. We are definitely on the same page. Please

for the sake of humanity could people wake up. We’re in very tenuous times.

[deurbano]

39. I want California to return to the previous system. Even when we get two Democrats running

against each other in the general, it's divisive.

[still_one]

43. so do I, but the only way I see that happening is through the initiative process

[Demsrule86]

99. Close elections are more likely to be stolen...so lets do our best to bring on a blue

tidal wave that sweeps Republicans out of office.

[still_one]

103. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Demsrule86]

106. Thank you!

[Honeycombe8]

23. Me, too. Russia is still hacking, as far as we know. And the Repubs are in on it.

I fear for the country. I hear the beat of war drums.

[arthritisR_US]

38. So do I, this did not have to be 😔

[Evergreen Emerald]

13. It was more than not voting for Clinton

It was attacking her as if they were Republicans with lies and distortion.

[still_one]

15. Sorry, but true progressives actually voted for the Democratic nominee, and that included those who

supported Bernie in the primaries.

If they had one once of regret or remorse it would be different, but they don't

[progressoid]

53. That's not what your OP says though.

[denverbill]

64. You need to decide what's more important: The past or the future.

If it's the past, keep doing what your doing.

[Jim Lane]

69. I believe that decision has been made.

It's not hard to determine who is in each camp.

[Demsrule86]

100. There shouldn't be two...camps...one camp and the sole purpose is to rid this country of a man

who is anxious to engage in nuclear war....nothing else matters. In 18, we can't get rid of him but we can clip his wings.

[Jim Lane]

154. There are two camps about how to achieve that purpose.

I agree with denverbill (in #64) about the dichotomy. There are people who want to get rid of Trump but who act as if refighting 2016 will help us do that.

I'm in the camp that favors looking to the future.

[DanTex]

71. Do you doubt that Sarandon and Stein aren't going to do all they can to re-elect Trump?

Really? You honestly think the Green Party's efforts to elect Republicans are a thing of the "past"?

LOL.

[Demsrule86]

101. It is what they do...our revolution too would rather elect a Republican than a Democrat.

[ehrnst]

123. The past... You mean like the ACA, keeping Planned Parenthood funded

protecting LGBTQ rights, Marriage equality, the Lilly Ledbetter equal pay act, CHIP, and much more?

That past?

Yes I want to keep on that track.

[Cha]

126. You need to figure out that this shite is still

going on NOW. stein and ssarandon are still out there spreading their filthy LIES.

[Hekate]

177. The past is prologue. Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

Forgetfulness is another form of rank, blind stupidity.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

65. Yup, we did. Would be nice if our loyalty to the Democratic cause & voting Hillary for President

was not "rewarded" by continually trashing our formally-preferred candidate, Bernie, here EVERY DAY, without let up. Jill Stein & Susan Sarandon, I get it... fuck them!

[Demsrule86]

104. The problem is that some people here fear that if Bernie runs, he will cause us to lose 20.

I don't think he can win a primary and it could cause a division which allows Trump to sneak in again...eight years of Trump, I doubt we would survive. Now I voted for Bernie in Ohio...my entire family did. I liked both candidates and it was a hard choice. I have been very disturbed by some of his actions and statements that I believe hurt the Democratic Party and our chances. I worked my ass off for Hillary Clinton. I always vote for the Democratic...I know you did too. But some here lump Bernie in with 16 and may even believe his run cost us 16. I think there were many causes for our 16 loss...if we really lost. The could have been votes flipped which would explain the crazy numbers in some states. I sincerely hope Bernie will set aside his ambition to be president for the good of the country and let those who bear no scars from 16 and who are not controversial run. We need new candidates. I also think he is too old for a presidential run. I like Biden and think he has some support but again, I think we need younger candidates. I have cared for elderly members of my family...their health can change in a New York second. After Trump, we need stability.

There is no doubt that I can be angered quickly by Sen. Sanders for a statement or whatever...probably more than any Democratic politician. And that stems from disappointment not hatred. I don't hate him.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

178. I hear what you're sayin' Dems ... thanks for taking the time to splain your position.

And it's perfectly reasonable. Every Democrat makes questionable statements that, may, in one way or another, not be helpful to the our party's cause - I could cite Hillary's recent gaffs in India - and people can (and should) rightfully criticize. It's the vitriol, often directed as much, if not more, at their supporters that I have a problem with. I don't see how that helps build party unity, which is critical to regaining Congressional power in 2018 and, of course, looking ahead to 2020.

Bottom line: I just want to win... 8 years of that tRumpster fire and Rethug congress is unthinkable!!

[Demsrule86]

182. We are on the same page...and the vitriol on both sides is caused by fear in my

opinion that we won't win. I want to win so bad I can taste it.

[arthritisR_US]

46. I hear Bernie wants to run again so I am

sure you’ll be right on board. Given the military engagements your country and the world will be in, this will be sadisticly sad.

[betsuni]

61. They've alienated themselves.

They think Democrats aren't progressives, same as Republicans, and if not continually insulted and threatened would be farther to the Right than the Republicans. Facts and information were readily provided to them here. They chose to believe CTs and propaganda, to spread toxic negativity and hate. They must change themselves.

[treestar]

62. That is all it takes

To vote or not vote in a way that delays progressiveness even further?

Some people need a thicker skin

[lunamagica]

79. Do you really think that the likes of Sarandon will ever vote for a Democrat?

[Demsrule86]

108. If they don't know they suck and are still defending their vote than who cares...worthless.

I know some who voted for Nader...one in Florida and they get it and have never voted for a third party candidate again...if these folks haven't learned the lesson with Trump...than they never will. We are facing nuclear war...I don't really give a a damn how they feel.

[ehrnst]

125. Also - what is a "DLC'er in the future?"

[Cha]

135. I think it's suppose to be

an insult.. no matter how stale and passé.

[ehrnst]

137. Oh - like "status quo."

Gotcha.

[mcar]

12. So glad we don't have HRC, the "war monger"

as President.

[betsuni]

17. IT WOULD BE STATUS QUO!!!11111

[Cha]

76. "STATUS QUO"!!!!!!!!!11111111

BULLSHITEBULLSHITEBULLBULLSHITE

Hillary Clinton was more dangerous than Donald Trump: Susan Sarandon

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms

People who voted for Jill Stein were tricked, and we are all paying for it

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms

[Demsrule86]

105. I long for status quo... I would give much to have it.

[Cha]

107. President Obama was Status Quo..

they tried to turn it into a couple of dirty words.

The status quo that was always moving Forward!

Demsrule

[Demsrule86]

110. I know...I believe President Obama will be remembered as one of our greatest presidents...despite

complete obstruction, he still managed to save the economy, pass healthcare and during his tenure we got marriage equality... a remarkable man and a wonderful president. My Grandma has a picture of Roosevelt...my Mom and Dad added Kennedy and Johnson. I have those pictures now and will add one of President Obama. Cha

[Cha]

114. He was always moving forward..

a real progressive.. if he had a Democratic Congress all 8 years.. who knows what we could have had.. except for the brainwashing of America..

But, it is what it is.. and we will just keep fighting until the world returns to sanity.

Great points, Dems..

" he still managed to save the economy, pass healthcare and during his tenure we got marriage equality... a remarkable man and a wonderful president."

Cool! I have one of Obama and Biden.. and a magnetic graphic with Obama's pic on my fridge, that says I'm a member of Obama's Kitchen Cabinet.

[Demsrule86]

149. The thing that bothers me most is that progressive voters failed to have his back.

I well remember the horrible stuff said about him when he couldn't get single payer. They had a pout and ended any chance for progressive policy.

[Cha]

179. No kidding.. I include

that in the brainwashing of America.

[Demsrule86]

181. Very true...

[betsuni]

109. Me too. I like stability.

[Demsrule86]

111. I don't want to live in 'interesting times'. I can't believe we face nuclear war and the

Republicans are doing nothing to stop Trump.

[betsuni]

118. I want to live my small ordinary life in peace.

Bad enough that places like Syria are hellholes where people suffer terribly, another thing to go looking for trouble for no reason -- like the Iraq War. Thanks, Republicans.

[Demsrule86]

148. That is what I want....trying to clean up my potty mouth...f...ng Republicans!

[mcar]

120. Oh for a return to "status quo"

What was wrong with that, again?

[ehrnst]

130. Something.... I never seem to get a definition from anyone on specifics

[ehrnst]

129. ERMEGERD! Not the......

STATUS QUO! (whatever it happens to be - it seems to shift daily - but it's always BAD!!!!!)

[Jamaal510]

58. We're free of the "warmongeringcorporatistfascistclosetracistrepublicanliteneoliberalcrooked" HRC,

and have a truly "authentic" person occupying the White House. Hurray.

[mcar]

121. Yay

[ehrnst]

132. Yes, that's what his fans called him, isn't it?

"Authentic"

"Anti-establishment"

"Not like career politicians."

[betsuni]

16. Where's the revolution that was supposed to happen?

Come on, Susan, what's the hold up?

[arthritisR_US]

47. She was playing a role for the script Jill and

Bernie gave her. Nothing to follow, she got the press she wanted to aid her fading career.

[Jim Lane]

67. Another smear about Bernie -- another lie

Actually, even as to Susan Sarandon, my guess is that your statement is false. Stein wanted people to support her (duh), and Sarandon supported her, but Sarandon is capable of speaking for herself and probably didn't follow a script given her by Stein.

Putting that aside, though, Bernie's case is clear. Stein offered to step aside to let him run on the Green Party ticket. He didn't take that offer -- in fact, Stein rather petulantly complained that he hadn't even responded to her. Then he went out and campaigned for Hillary. Were his speeches for Hillary based on a script Stein gave him? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say No.

OK, now, since another Bernie bash has been exposed as a blatant lie, it's time for some deflection. Perhaps someone would be so good as to complain that Bernie didn't campaign enough for Hillary, and someone else might add the shocking news that he's not a Democrat?

[John Fante]

60. The revolution went straight into her bank account... via Trump's tax cut.

[Gore1FL]

18. Good way to solidify the 2018 and 2020 vote by calling people idiots!

Do you have any other GOTV ideas?

[still_one]

19. Those who voted third party or subscribed to the mindset of Jill Stein or Susan Sarandon have

absolutely no remorse or regret

They demonstrated their true colors in 2016, and they have no regrets

[Jim Lane]

70. Do you think the same of those who voted for Nader in 2000?

The reason I ask is that the vast majority of them abandoned him in 2004.

That datum suggests a rather startling hypothesis: Maybe people who cast one vote that we disagree with aren't thereby conclusively shown to be utterly unreachable.

Just a thought.

[still_one]

78. You make a valid point regarding the 2000 election, but I would argue that most of those non-green

progressives who voted for Nader did not believe that Bush would win, and I say that because in my discussions with some of those voters, that is what they said to me.

2016 was different though. While most of those who supported other Democratic candidates voted for the Democratic nominee in the general election, there was a small percent that didn't, and they expressed an entirely different view. That view was that they hoped there would be enough of them to cause the election to be lost by the Democratic nominee.

Unlike those in 2000, these spoilers have no regret, and would gladly do the same thing again, even knowing what has transpired under trump.

[Jim Lane]

152. I don't see that much difference between 2000 and 2016

My evidence, like yours, is essentially anecdotal, but, FWIW, here goes....

Neither the Nader voters nor the Stein voters were a monolith. Each group had a mixture of reasoning and motive. I think that each group included some people in each of these categories:

* People who objected on principle to voting for a candidate with whom they had significant disagreements.
* People who minimized the differences between the two major parties (ironically, the same pitch made by George Wallace in 1968).
* People in non-swing states who thought their state was in the bag for one party anyway, and so voted to send a message (or to help the Greens get to 5% for federal funding) rather than to affect the outcome.
* People who actively wanted the Democratic candidate to lose because that way the Democratic Party would be forced to move left to re-attract disgruntled progressives.

(Side note to the reading-impaired crowd: I voted for Gore, I voted for Clinton, I am not endorsing any of the above viewpoints, and I am not urging a vote against a Democratic candidate. I'm simply trying to understand why a significant number of generally left-leaning people made the wrong decision.)

I couldn't venture to say whether the mix among these groups was significantly different as between Nader and Stein. The only thing that's clear to me is that Nader got a lot of votes because of his name recognition and his well-deserved reputation as a consumer advocate, which is a big reason he did so much better than Stein did.

A key factor is that both these races -- the two elections in which the Green Party candidate did significantly better than in any other presidential election in the party's history -- came after eight years of a Democrat in the White House. I think people got complacent. Especially with regard to the second group, those who minimized the differences between the two major parties, it was easier to believe that baloney when there was no recent history of a Republican as President.

This will be important in 2020. The Stein voters in the first two groups I listed above will have the same experience as the Nader voters did from 2000 to 2004: four years of Republican misrule, with horrific consequences for the country.

The effect of this experience in 2004 was that Nader lost about three-fourths of his previous support. In 2020, although there will be some Green Party diehards of the type you describe, it's reasonable for us to hope that a lot of them will repent. This is why I disagree with the DUers whose preferred approach to this bloc is to scream invective at them at every opportunity. Some of them can be won over, but not that way.

And, no, winning over some Stein voters doesn't mean we have to abandon other campaign efforts. I favor an "all of the above" strategy. There are Obama-Trump voters who can be won over, there are people who sat out the 2016 election who can be won over, there are young people and other new voters to be registered, etc. Heck, I'd include going after the McMullin voters. That's more than 700,000 votes for a candidate who was on the ballot in only eleven states. I think most of them are traditional Republicans who were appalled by the prospect of Trump, and who are unlikely to have been mollified by his performance in office. If he's the GOP candidate in 2020 (which of course isn't certain), some of them might be ready to vote to oust him instead of just casting a protest vote.

[still_one]

157. That is a pretty through analysis. In my first response I was trying to specifically address the

non-green voters who voted for Nader or Stein, because for the most part I tend to believe that those who are registered with the green party are a monolith, though I have no doubt there would be exception in that generalization.

So the focus of my argument was on those progressives who voted third party, and I see a distinction between that demographic in 2000 verses 2016. As I stated, I think a good number of that group in the swing states in 2016 actually wanted to be spoilers, but like you said it is anecdotal. It would be enlightening to see an actual poll or survey on that.

You make some very convincing arguments though, and I really need to think about this more

[Demsrule86]

112. The ones (some here) who defend their vote for Nader or who claim he and the Greens

had no impact...yeah I blame them. And they never learned the lesson even after we got two wars, a failing economy, Katrina deaths and United (the gift that keeps on giving) I know folks who voted for him and deeply regret it...I still think they were idiots to vote for him...but they are not doubling down as some who vote third party in 16 are...Sarandon and Turner are good examples.

[Hekate]

24. I am no longer moved by that line, especially since HILLARY WON BY 3,000,000 votes and ...

...it took a major act of Treason and numerous other felonies to bring her down.

Got anything else?

[arthritisR_US]

48. A big fucking thank you!!!

You nailed it!👍🏼👏🏼

[ismnotwasm]

25. Those people arent worth courting

We have people interested in politics for the first time, some are VOTING for the first time, a strong African American political community to work with, as well as other people of color.

What happened with Trump, in part, is the people who usually voted voted, and Hillary lost, in part, because of the constant and coordinated attacks from some who should have fully supported her. It’s a new day coming.

[Nevernose]

35. I was told here at DU

By multiple people, multiple times, that Hillary didn’t need my vote. She would be just without me or people like me. Those people, as it turned out, were incredibly incorrect. Astoundingly so. To the point where I now wonder if those people were Russian trolls.

However, there is no “new day coming” if people keep antagonizing the people whose vote they complain about not getting in he first place.

For the record, I knocked on a hell of a lot of doors for Hillary.

[ismnotwasm]

45. Good for you.

There is a demographic change happening, may be a more accurate way to put it. White people, with their biases and privileges are not going to rule everything anymore. Thank God and speed the day. We can learn to share.

[MadDAsHell]

36. Why are you calling out African Americans and other people of color?

But not whites?

[ismnotwasm]

41. Because the base of the party are African American voters

What exactly do you mean by “calling out”?

[JI7]

77. she wasn't "calling out" she was giving the group Credit for coming out and voting for Democrats in

high numbers.

[mcar]

29. 3rd party voters in 2016 are idiots

Period.

[betsuni]

51. They assured us their conscience wouldn't allow them to vote for the Democrat last time.

Who their consciences allow them to vote for in future isn't up to us. Small children and animals could see the difference between Trump and Clinton. Why couldn't they? You see where the "idiot" part comes in.

[Sherman A1]

87. Precisely

However, it is enlightening as to how some seem to feel.

[Honeycombe8]

21. I second that emotion. Grrrrrrr. nt

[spike91nz]

22. After all the Russian Cambridge Analytica

Conspiracy issues I always get a little suspicious when someone here focuses upon the divisive issues that were employed by the GOP to weaken us rather than moving into a receptive attitude of joining together for removal of a common enemy. You never win by fighting the last lost battle over and over, you only fragment the group and alienate those who were admittedly needed. Clearly there are more important issues for us to deal with than poking at old wounds created by those who were committed to fomenting divisiveness in our ranks and handicapping our effectiveness.

[Hekate]

27. You are aware that Hillary won the election? See my post #24 above re treason and felonies.

[still_one]

30. I get a little suspcious of those such as Stein who downplayed any Russian interference,

and those such as Stein and Sarandon who duped enough people to believe that the Democratic nominee was worse than Trump, because that was and is BULL
Perhaps those folks will not be fooled again by the Sarandons and the Steins. I might also mention that the same cast of divisive characters were there in 2000 also telling us how their was no difference between republicans and Democrats

[calimary]

68. Ah yes, the same Jill Stein who was seen all gussied up and seated at that main banquet table

with good ol' Vlad and Mike Flynn? That Jill Stein? Yeah. No Russian interference with that one.

[betsuni]

40. They see liberals/Democrats as the enemy, live in a propaganda bubble like Fox viewers.

They're lost to reality and reason and are not shy about telling us how much they despise us. Hopefully the number of such people is shrinking and won't be as loud next time.

[Cha]

83. Right.. they're lost in their

own little bubble.. they believed all the LIES stein and ssarandon were spewing without Checking out the FACTS themselves.

Hopefully if they give a shite about the Planet they'll now see stein's and ssarandon's Propaganda for what it is.

Hillary Clinton was more dangerous than Donald Trump: Susan Sarandon

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms

People who voted for Jill Stein were tricked, and we are all paying for it

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms

[Cha]

80. Two of the common enemies are stein and ssarandon,

who are still pushing their LIES. Forget the 2016 Rigged in election that they own a big chunk of.. they are still spewing their filthy LIES After that.

I get suspicious when anyone wants to shuffle that under the rug.

Hillary Clinton was more dangerous than Donald Trump: Susan Sarandon

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms

People who voted for Jill Stein were tricked, and we are all paying for it

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms

[Demsrule86]

115. And Nina Turner as well she is bitter about 16 and hates Democrats...Our Revolution is a bad

group intended to cause controversy.

[Cha]

116. Oh yeah, we can't forget GasLighting

Nina Turner.. who said she wouldn't support Hillary in the GE.

[mudstump]

26. Well this post will surely win them over...lol.

[Hekate]

28. See my post #24 above. My gods, collecting noobs all at once in this thread. Welcome to DU, all...

...and enjoy your stay.

[progressoid]

52. With the declining numbers here, you'd think some new blood would be welcome to DU.

[Demsrule86]

117. If we can't rely on left left voters...we will have no choice as a party but to more to the

center left and work for moderate voters( independent's votes). Progressives (like me ) will get less not more. I don't want that, but it has to happen if the unreliable voters of 16 don't learn a lesson in what not to do in a general election which is always vote for the Democrat. You want to send a message, may I suggest twitter or email...or for God's sake send it snailmail...just don't use your vote. I mean "you" in general/universal terms...not saying you did any of what I discussed.

[still_one]

31. Win who over? The Steins and Sarandons? Hopefully what it will do is point out that the Steins and

Sarandons should not be believed

[mcar]

32. Why should they be "won over?"

Why shouldn't they be coming to our side, filled with remorse for what they, in part wrought? Why should Democrats have to beg and cajole a bunch of selfish idiots to pretty please vote with us to save the country?

[Cha]

82. They're still LYING, mcar.. Forget the 2016 Rigged in "election"

Hillary Clinton was more dangerous than Donald Trump: Susan Sarandon

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms

People who voted for Jill Stein were tricked, and we are all paying for it

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms

[mcar]

119. Do you think they just don't want to admit they were wrong, Cha?

Or is it something more...nefarious?

[Hekate]

172. Door #2, mcar

[treestar]

63. They need to be won over

To prevent another right wing congress? A little dig like this is enough to get them to risk that?

[Cha]

81. Yuk yuk... Do you think stein and ssarandon are

EVER going to quit spewing their filthy LIES?

They're still doing it NOW after trump.

Hillary Clinton was more dangerous than Donald Trump: Susan Sarandon

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms

People who voted for Jill Stein were tricked, and we are all paying for it

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms

[regnaD kciN]

33. I'm sure dozens of threads like this...

...will get them to change their minds next time.

[progressoid]

56. Indeed.

[Cha]

75. If stein and sarandon STOP LYING to their FANS...

they'll change their minds.

Hillary Clinton was more dangerous than Donald Trump: Susan Sarandon

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms

People who voted for Jill Stein were tricked, and we are all paying for it

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/hillary-clinton-was-more-dangerous-than-donald-trump-susan-sarandon/articleshow/61830158.cms

[IronLionZion]

42. 2018? Shouldn't we run facing backwards to 2016

so that we can trip and fall over ourselves and slide the election straight into the undeserving hands of the GOP? That'll teach those other Democrats a lesson.

[still_one]

44. Perhaps we should not listen to the likes of the Steins, Sarandons, Naders, etc.

[IronLionZion]

54. Then how will we know what to think?

Might as well get our thinking points directly from the source at Russian troll farms.

[Cha]

86. They're NOT "Democrats" for one thing.. and

another thing is.. it's still ongoing.

This is a cautionary tale for 2018 and 2020

[IronLionZion]

164. Many of those "progressives" are enjoying white privilege

since they're not feeling nearly as much punishment from Trump's administration as people of color...yet.

[lutherj]

49. Because if you think and act like we live in a democracy you are sadly naive. Stand up straight and

toe the party line, comrade! We’re all Ruskies now!

[still_one]

50. Ms Stein and Ms. Sarandon sure did their part

[Jamaal510]

59. That crowd shows up once

every four years, then they pop right back in their holes waiting for the next presidential election. It's clear to me they don't even care about building a foundation for their loser political parties--they only want to sabotage the Democrats. Also, have they even at least been speaking out on key issues like gun control lately? Where are the Steins and Sarandons of politics on that? At least there have been some real Democrats pressing that issue.

[CanonRay]

74. I don't even want to hear the words "third party"

ever again. That is all.

[KG]

84. I lulz'd

again

[Cha]

85. Don't Forget Cornel West in that lump of idiots.

West: Unlike Hillary Clinton and President Obama who are puppets.. brother trump is a real human being

I'm sure there are more stupid statements but this takes the prize today.

Mahalo, still_one, for pointing out the Brainwashing RFs in the 2016 Rigged in election.. and still RFing.



They ALL need to be held accountable for his fucking shite.

[still_one]

88. Yes. Even though he wasn't a registered Democratic, he was given a seat at the table on the rules

committee, and he couldn't jump over to Jill Stein quick enough

Thanks Cha

[Cha]

89. Right.. the attemped GasLighitng put Patrick Hamilton's

book, Gas Light, to shame, and the movie they adapted it from.. way back in 1944..



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1944_film)

Sounds like he voted for trump from that quote on Hillary, President Obama, and trump.

Mahalo, still_one

[betsuni]

90. Yes.

"My dear friend Cornel West said during the campaign that 'I think Trump will be a neofascist catastrophe and Clinton will be a neoliberal disaster.' I don't know what a neoliberal disaster even means, but whatever it is, isn't it better than a fascist one? Have you people lost your fucking minds?"
Bill Maher

[Cha]

91. Well he went from that to calling

trump "a real human being".. which we've witnessed many times over.. he's NOT. GasLighter.

And, President Obama and Hillary are intelligent, compassionate, and courageous leaders for the uplifting of humanity. Plus they have good senses of humor.

Mahalo for Maher, betsuni.. yes I do believe cornel west lost his fucking mind.

[betsuni]

92. I think Cornel is the biggest nut in the fruitcake.

[ProfessorGAC]

93. It Seems Fake To Me

There is a disingenuous quality to him that makes it seem like an act. I used to like him a lot, but the bit has taken over his common sense, i fear.

[Cha]

94. Rapper Killer Mike: 'If youre voting for Trump or Hillary Clinton, youre voting for the same thing

Yep.. then there's Killer Mike who didn't do his homework

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-killer-mike-20160812-snap-story.html

[Hekate]

174. "Brother Trump is a real human being"? OMG

[Cha]

95. Rapper Killer Mike: 'If youre voting for Trump or Hillary Clinton, youre voting for the same thing

Throw Killer Mike in there, too.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-killer-mike-20160812-snap-story.html

[Demsrule86]

96. You are right...I still see 16 politics here and it has to stop...we need to win. We need to

evaluate candidates using the criteria ...can he/she win in this district or state...and for fuck's sake no more primaries of sitting Democrats. We can use the resources elsewhere to take GOP seats. Also don't support outside groups who are unrepentant about their role in 16 like our revolution and who clearly hate Democrats more than Republicans. Ideology is important but only if you can win a majority...otherwise it is meaningless as you dance to the GOP tune.

[SunSeeker]

113. K & R

[ehrnst]

122. If HRC was president, they would be calling every single Cabinet nominee "corporatist"

lashing out at her in anger, under the guise of "holding her feet to the fire..."

As if she would need that.

[Blue_Tires]

124. Add in Greenwald, Scahill, Snowden, and pretty much all of the Intercept

Tracey, Taibbi, Bragman, etc... When Dems are finally in control of Washington again, these are the types of agitprop merchants we need to purge out

[disillusioned73]

141. Purge where??

[HenryWallace]

128. Pathetic! .... Psychologists call this "projection."

Still punching left hey.....

Grow up, move on.....

[Cha]

138. "Pathetic" back at you. You have no

clue what you're talking about.

stein, pawn for putin, and ssarandon' are LIARS, who are still Lying their damn heads off.. This is happening now.. they will try to screw up the 2020 election, too.

[HenryWallace]

156. Your own personal Groundhogs Day!

A clue; Vladimir Putin installed Donald Trump by manipulating Dr. Jill Stein and an aging Hollywood celebrity, no thanks.

That’s not a “clue;” it’s a plot to a bad James Bond film.

It must be Hell living every day as if it’s November 9, 2016!

[Cha]

180. Nah.. the only groundhogs are the fucking LIARS, jill stein and

fucking ssaradon.

[disillusioned73]

134. I call this..

misdirected anger.. or calculated distraction

"Voter turnout this year dipped to nearly its lowest point in two decades. While election officials are still tabulating ballots, the 126 million votes already counted means about 55% of voting age citizens cast ballots this year. That measure of turnout is the lowest in a presidential election since 1996, when 53.5% of voting-age citizens turned out."

[link:https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/11/politics/popular-vote-turnout-2016/index.html|

[Cha]

136. Well you're wrong.. we know exactly

why these two Liars, who are still Lying and have no remorse about their LIES, deserve every bit of our anger.

[disillusioned73]

139. Your entitled to your opinion..

as am I and everyone else in this country.. it doesn't change the fact that half the country didn't vote - why has that happened and how can they be brought into the fold?? Why hasn't the electoral college been challenged or debated since 2016 exposed it as archaic??

Or maybe that is the point.. let's keep the duopoly as is, we just want to edge out the other side barely and just make minimal incremental changes.. let's not engage new voters, new ideas that could challenge the gravy train that now exists..

[Cha]

140. yeah, whatever

[Tarc]

144. Thank you, Jill Stein

Also, "you're".

[disillusioned73]

145. Very insightful..

it's why i come hear( <--- ) so often..

[Marty Marzipan]

150. We should also thank...

... all the people who didn't vote for Hillary because it was obvious she was going to win. Drumpf thanks you!

[Loubee]

151. Nobody voted 3rd party

because Sarandon told them to. Vindictive scapegoating of individuals or groups isn't going to lead to election success in the future.

[NastyRiffraff]

153. It's not only Stein & Sarandon

There were AND ARE people who call themselves "progressives" who STILL TODAY cling like leeches to the idea of an evil, "Republican Lite" Hillary Clinton, against all evidence. (Who needs stinkin' evidence? My CONSCIENCE!!). Yes, I am angry as hell. We are facing a crisis in our country and the world, and if some people don't know that or don't care, then yes, I hate them. I'm not a hater, but I will never forgive them. They have no intention of changing, or admitting what they've done.

[Gothmog]

155. Susan Sarandon and Jill Stein both helped to elect trump

[Ferrets are Cool]

158. Don't forget that idiot R. Barr who was on

the tube last nite still trying to sound reasonable. She FAILED.

[still_one]

159. Either Barr is off her rocker, or she is a racist bigot. I guess she could be both

[DownriverDem]

161. Her character

supports trump, not her right?

[Ferrets are Cool]

168. I'm sorry, I don't understand your question.

[DownriverDem]

160. My thoughts exactly

WTF was wrong with those folks? We sure aren't better off.

[Blue_Tires]

162. Feels like the Academy Awards, so many people to thank...

Here's a good start:

Link to tweet

[still_one]

163. You might have something there

[chwaliszewski]

166. Not this, again....

[apnu]

167. Stein and Sarandon are in different situations

Same result, but different.

Jill Stein is a Russian puppet and has been for a while.

Susan Sarandon is a wide eyed true believing progressive who often leaps before she thinks. She seems to live in a pure reactionary mode and is quick to trust anything that confirms her bias before asking if she's being played for a rube.

Reactionary Progressives and liberals like Sarandon don't do us any favors. They look and act exactly like their counterparts on the far right.

Its not that I disagree with the politics of the far left, in fact I support them on most issues. Its how they conduct themselves and how easily they fall for propaganda (the kind Jill Stein was selling) and react with hair-on-fire rage and panic.

Calm down, think before you act. Act with reasoned and deliberate actions.

A woman of her age and wisdom, Sarandon should know this lesson by now.

[KPN]

171. One more time around ... Why does this

feel like a merry-go-round?

I hope at least it makes some feel better.

[Progressive dog]

175. Stein and Sarandon deliberately worked to help Trump

and I sure hope they get properly rewarded for it along with those MAGA progressives.
Maybe Flynn has information about Stein and her patron, Putin, to share with Mueller.