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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOrdinarily Trump would have gotten away with his conspiracy with Russia
Of course there is still a chance that he will, but I increasingly doubt it. Mueller's probe is too exhaustive and professional at the highest level of competency. His office has very deep pockets, and Mueller had a mandate to recruit the best investigators in every aspect of his inquiry. His own personal standing in the fields of law enforcement and intelligence no doubt made it easier for him to attract top talent to his probe, and his reputation for integrity gave all who signed up with him reason to believe the investigation would be guided only by the nation's interests.
I think our nation likely has dodged not just a bullet, but an incoming ICBM with a nuclear warhead. On one level I of course take comfort in this, on another I find it profoundly chilling to contemplate. The media on its own could never have delivered the full goods on Trump and all of the Republicans complicit with him, and I say that with full appreciation for the incredible investigative effort that journalists with integrity have undertaken on this matter on behalf of our nation. Without Mueller's office the media alone likely could have bruised and battered the reputation and standing of many of Trump's co-conspirators, but they couldn't make the final kill. No media outlet has either the resources or standing in the public eye to definitively establish both the truth and/or the full extent of the conspiracy against our Democracy that has long been underway. Anything short of that and I believe the conspiracy would have ultimately achieved it's goal of subverting our Democracy
In a different era, or even now if opposition Democrats were instead in full control of the investigative organs of Congress, much of the truth may have come to light. But even a non complicit Congress lacks the time and resources that Mueller's office was able to assemble, to unravel the maze of international money laundering operations, back channel communications, and the world class capabilities of Russia's formidable intelligence operatives working with the full support and blessing of Putin - in cooperation with American players.
In a sense we are dealing with an inverted 21st century confrontation with the concept behind Hitler's Big Lie propaganda machine. In Goebbels case repeated defiant claims were so outrageous that a response "they couldn't keep saying that if it wasn't true" was cultivated. This is the type of twisting of the truth that Donald Trump himself routinely uses. The inverse though is even more insidious. The scale of the ongoing attack on America, and the true identities of the Americans complicit in it, is so audacious and ultimately deeply treasonous, from quarters where patriotism supposedly dwells, that the truth itself defies belief. The case against the conspirators must be air tight and meticulously assembled and then presented by those with the highest possible credentials in order for substantial segments of the American public to face it fully free of ingrained denial.
But there never would have been a Mueller had Trump not fired Comey. And of course no Special Counsel of Mueller's caliber would ever have been appointed by Jeff Sessions if he had not recused himself in the first place, nor would that hypothetical Counsel have been given free reign if somehow Sessions had been forced to appoint and then oversee one. International crime has become so complex, and asymmetrical information and cyber warfare has become so sophisticated, that it increasingly takes the focused highest level abilities of a nation state to counter. And if a nation state that is under such attack is controlled by forces complicit with that attack, prospects for a successful defense become bleak at best.
Donald Trump and his American co-conspirators had every reason to believe they would never be held accountable for their deeds. If Trump lost the election, the U.S. Government response would have centered on countering Russia's efforts. I strongly suspect even a government controlled by Democrats would not have risked unleashing domestic partisan fueled social upheavals by exhaustively pursuing all domestic leads into the crimes that occurred utilizing the type of resources that Mueller's probe has now mustered - and without that we never could have gotten to the bottom of all this. And I'm sure it never occurred to Trump that if he won he would not have the sufficient control, with his allies in Congress, to make sure the full truth never saw the light of day.
Forty years later and historians still talk about Watergate. One hundred and forty years hence they will still be talking about these times we are living through today.
Farmer-Rick
(10,163 posts)was about to whitewash Trump's involvement. He might have slapped Flynn's hand but he would never have investigated like Mueller.
That was Trump's biggest mistake. Firing Comey. It's where I would have started the story if I were writing a novel.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)There would have been a surface probe with surface remedies, but never a full dive. No one would find this credible as fiction though, but your suggesting would be an excellent place for the inevitable docudrama to begin
diva77
(7,640 posts)Mueller's investigation to prevent another stolen election. (BTW, I am not in any way defending what Comey did)
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/
Friday, November 11, 2016
Before a single vote was cast, the election was fixed by GOP and Trump operatives.
SNIP
Starting in 2013 just as the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act a coterie of Trump operatives, under the direction of Kris Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State, created a system to purge 1.1 million Americans of color from the voter rolls of GOPcontrolled states.
The system, called Crosscheck, is detailed in my Rolling Stone report,
The GOPs Stealth War on Voters, 8/24/2016.
Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922
Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824
Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393
On Tuesday, we saw Crosscheck elect a Republican Senate and as President, Donald Trump. The electoral putsch was aided by nine other methods of attacking the right to vote of Black, Latino and Asian-American voters, methods detailed in my book and film, including Caging, purging, blocking legitimate registrations, and wrongly shunting millions to provisional ballots that will never be counted.
SNIP
-----------------
And this article doesn't even address computerized voting/tabulation equipment -- another huge problem with our elections.
LisaM
(27,808 posts)I still want to punch some of the smug mugs I see on the news. They'll never, ever admit that all the airtime and legitimacy they lent to the Trump campaign at the beginning caused this. They'll never admit that, going back to at least 2000, they have failed to cover issues and have promoted debates that don't highlight whether a candidate was actually more prepared and qualified than another. They latch onto things like talking points and charisma, and ignore substance and the well-being of our democracy. They have failed to point out voter suppression tactics and onerous requirements being put into place, right in front of our eyes, for voting at all.
Once the Fairness Doctrine was no longer in play, rather than adhering to it anyway, media outlets chose to just turn themselves into infotainment instead.
Trump may still get away with it, because we have a lot of yawning disregard by voters who don't believe or care how commercialized and biased our media has become.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)Lots can be said on this theme but your conclusion IMO is unavoidable. Everything from corporate self interest (Greed) to formulaic reporting (Sloth) that sought eyeballs over truth. It's interesting now to observe how a number of those who were guilty of those media offenses have now seemingly been shaken by the consequences of their prior behavior. Belatedly there is finally a growing sense among some in the media that the role they play and how they play can be vital to the health of a democracy, or conversely to its decline. I speak of course about a minority of journalists, but I still Thank God that investigative journalism is at last seeing somewhat of a resurgence.
There was over 30 years' of proof, readily available to anyone interested in facts, that Trump was an incompetent, childish, perverted bully -- a failure in everything the touched. But not a single media outlet paid attention to his record. It was all about Hillary, emails, Benghazi, Monica and Bill, the Clinton Foundation. And now here we are.
mountain grammy
(26,620 posts)and, yes, they still may get away with it because our media won't sound the alarms, just like during the campaign.
flotsam
(3,268 posts)This piece belongs in the major media and I thank you for it.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)Mme. Defarge
(8,028 posts)Very insightful. And appreciated.
brush
(53,776 posts)we have Muellar.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)Frankens refusal to bow to Senate norms when questioning a fellow senator during confirmation is what led to Sessions recusal. Thats a fact.
traladeda
(48 posts)Al was a champion for the American people against a corrupt GOP who coordinated with the Russian attack. There is a reason they went after him. What's amazing to me is how there was a new woman coming forward every day (he wanted to debate me! he squeezed my waist!), and once he said he was leaving...nothing. You'd think that a fiend such as him would have closets full of squeezed waists.
brush
(53,776 posts)Wonder if that senator from New York noticed?
lark
(23,097 posts)She removed a rival, so accomplished exactly what she wanted. She obviously never cared for the truth and refused to listen to all the many people exonerating him and crying BS.
GeorgeGist
(25,320 posts)"One hundred and forty years hence they will still be talking about these times we are living through today."
We need to assure it.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,853 posts)are hurriedly dismantling so many good things. Like the EPA. They are systematically defunding social programs that do good, easing an already too-low tax burden on the rich. So much damage has already been done, that if Trump were to leave office tomorrow we'll still be years and years recovering from what's already been wrought.
mac56
(17,566 posts)Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)First Speaker
(4,858 posts)...and it goes without saying there will be a "next time". The GOP is not going to change its basic nature, and the lesson they'll take away from this is that they'll have to be more ruthless and unyielding. A slicker Trump will come along, one bright enough not to hang a "I am a traitor" sign around his neck. This, basically, is what happened after Watergate...
Tom Rinaldo
(22,912 posts)It is disputed whether Thomas Jefferson actually ever said that but it remains true regardless.
politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)immediately launched a bullshit investigation into Hillary's conduct regarding her emails overriding Comey's investigation, and also related to Benghazi; and Hillary, Susan Rice, Cheryl Mills, and Huma Abedin would have all been criminally charged on some trumped up charges, and quite possibly convicted; and Hillary would have been impeached, and likely convicted probably within the first six months. So while none of us would have chosen this outcome, this is probably the better outcome when you consider the alternative, that those lying bastards would have impeached and convicted her because they had the votes.
Sometimes things happen for a reason, and perhaps this is God's way of saying, "I'm sorry Hillary, but I couldn't let you win only to have those bastards impeach you". Also wake up Democrats. This could have been the outcome. You think we're pissed now, imagine had she won and those Bastards impeached her; the first woman president and a Democrat at that, on some bullshit charges.
traladeda
(48 posts)I don't think Sessions ever would have appointed someone so competent. He's guilty as hell too.
kentuck
(111,089 posts)And they want to make as wide a sweep as possible before making their case.
Also, in my opinion, they believe Donald Trump is one of the leaders of this money-laundering operations. By hiding his money and his tax returns, he has been able to escape any criminal charges.
But the White House will be his downfall.
rainin
(3,011 posts)Intelligence agencies here and abroad are wary about sharing intelligence with them. The world trusts Mueller.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Here's the timeline as we now know it...
In March, Russia hacked the DNC's and Hillary's emails.
In April, the Trump campaign learned about it
In May, Papadopoulos got drunk and bragged about it
In June, Trump encouraged Russia to release Hillary's emails
Sometime before October, Russia transferred the emails to Wikileaks
All that's left is to connect the dots.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)It should be in EVERY newspaper and on every TV news station and every serious blog in the US of A.
What especially jumps out at me, if I had to pick one thing, is this,
"The scale of the ongoing attack on America, and the true identities of the Americans complicit in it, is so audacious and ultimately deeply treasonous, from quarters where patriotism supposedly dwells, that the truth itself defies belief. The case against the conspirators must be air tight and meticulously assembled and then presented by those with the highest possible credentials in order for substantial segments of the American public to face it fully free of ingrained denial. "
Thanks,