Jill Stein received 50,700 votes in MI. Trump won by less than 12,000. She outpolled Trumps margin

[MelissaB]

Jill Stein received 50,700 votes in MI. Trump won by less than 12,000. She outpolled Trump’s margin in WI, as well. If Russians sought to redirect alienated HRC voters to third parties, as indictment alleges, it was a shrewd ploy.

Link to tweet

[dalton99a]

1. Great example.

[zipplewrath]

2. The assumption being

That HRC voters were "redirected". The few Stein voters I knew weren't voting for Hillary. Dubious they would have voted Trump, but more likely a no show or a write in voter.

[shanny]

12. Bingo.

Axelrod and many here assume that those votes somehow belonged to Hillary but were "re-directed."

[bullimiami]

28. And what made those voters galvanize against Hillary? Think.

[zipplewrath]

40. Anger

Most of the few folks that I know, didn't like Hillary straight out of the gate and spent the whole campaign season looking for alternatives.

[bullimiami]

41. Hard to admit the anger may have been stoked by manipulation.

[mr_lebowski]

31. Then again, who/what enticed Jill Stein to even run in the first place?

I'd bet 11k+ of the 50K+ would've actually gone for HRC if there WAS no Jill Stein to vote for, no matter what your anecdotal evidence seems to suggest. And virtually NONE for Trump.

[zipplewrath]

39. Well, we're both guilty

Neither of us has any concrete evidence to suggest how those voters would have voted if Stein wasn't in the race. But it is a leap to presume that all, or even a majority, would have voted for Hillary.

[yardwork]

36. I know progressive voters who believed lies about Hillary and voted for Stein or a write-in.

They live in college towns, including Ann Arbor and Madison.

The Russian trolls brainwashed people. Many of the folks I know still won't admit that they were brainwashed against Hillary. They were, just like people who believe that Obama was born in Kenya. Same source for the lies.

[bearsfootball516]

3. The trend continues among swing states

Trump won Wisconsin by 22,748 votes...and there were a combined 137,746 votes cast for Gary Johnson/Jill Stein.

Trend is the same in Ohio, Pennsylvania, etc.

[BannonsLiver]

4. She'd look great in an orange jumpsuit

Nobody will ever convince me she wasn't involved.

[Doodley]

5. If we argue that there shouldn't be more than two candidates, we argue against democracy.

[kcr]

6. Strawman.

You do you see what the OP is about? Right? Because it's pretty clear.

[Doodley]

25. I saw that, but I also saw some replies.

[NurseJackie]

7. Lord.

[Eliot Rosewater]

10. Dear god, I dont want to have to read that stuff HERE.. not HERE

[enid602]

8. Moscow

But having two candidates that are owned by Moscow does not bode well for our democracy either.

[Doodley]

27. Yes, I agree. We need to have a wide selection of candidates that are not influenced by

other nations or corporations.

[Doodley]

35. Yes I agree, of course.

[shanny]

14. Some here do that a LOT.

[herding cats]

19. The Russians encouraging people to vote third party to sway our election.

That is not democracy.

People who think third parties serve a purpose other than a spoiler candidate in a presidential election are deluding themselves.

[Doodley]

30. Do you think America should be unique in the Western world in only having a choice of two?

Would you be happy to only have a choice of only two cars? Two types of beer? Two types of clothes? The idea that there should be only two is not delusional.

[herding cats]

32. Thats all irrelevant to our current situation.

Pretending things are other than they are changes nothing and opens doors to atrocities such as Trump.

[Doodley]

33. Who is pretending things are other than they are? To me, Trump is an abomination. He is the most

vile human being. He is a white supremacist. He is destroying America, its institutions, its reputation, and spreading hatred and anger. I will never make excuses for Trump. But I was responding to a comment that suggested that third parties are in some way illegitimate. Yes, they are if they are propped up and influenced by a foreign agency. But as a general guide, a two-party system will not be successful in representing many of the people and leads to division.

[herding cats]

37. Let me refresh the post you responded to in your memory.

Me:

The Russians encouraging people to vote third party to sway our election.

That is not democracy.

People who think third parties serve a purpose other than a spoiler candidate in a presidential election are deluding themselves.

You:

Do you think America should be unique in the Western world in only having a choice of two?

Would you be happy to only have a choice of only two cars? Two types of beer? Two types of clothes? The idea that there should be only two is not delusional.

Me:

Thats all irrelevant to our current situation.

Pretending things are other than they are changes nothing and opens doors to atrocities such as Trump.

Nope not seeing anything you’re saying as factually representing our current political system, nor do I see it as being relevant. We’re not speaking cars or beer here. What we are we are speaking of is people who vote for spoiler candidates due to a misguided fantasy it has some impact other than to help aid the election of people like Trump, as seen in this past election.

We have a two party system and we’re not going to have a parliamentary system (which I do like better) ever in either of our lifetimes. Voting for a third party candidate in a presidential election is voting or a spoiler candidate. That’s very simply how it works. Be you a Republican or a Democrat.

[Codeine]

29. Many, many candidates is a fine notion.

Having one or more of said candidates secretly backed by Russian autocrats is some serious bullshit and is intolerable in a healthy democracy.

[Doodley]

34. I agree with that. Thank you.

[Wellstone ruled]

9. All on has to remember is this,

96k votes were not counted or went missing from the City of Detroit. Nuf said.

[shanny]

13. Nuff indeed.

Vote suppression, caging, gerrymandering etc have been going on in plain sight since AT LEAST the 2000 election. But somehow it is all the lefties' fault, then and now.

Oh and not the fault of the Democratic party which has done precious little to address it.

[Gabi Hayes]

21. Was going to tell you about this thread. What about the

Voting machines?

They got into the voter rolls in how many states?

Who in their right minds think they stopped at that?

Why would they?

They knew the FBI wasn’t going to reveal anything, after covering up for them during the campaign

Comey!

[Wellstone ruled]

22. 21 states.

[FarCenter]

11. Nothing about Jill Stein in the indictment

Opposing Rubio, Cruz, Clinton and supporting Sanders and Trump are all that is mentioned.

They must not have thought Stein was a factor.

[wishstar]

16. Jill Stein is mentioned in the indictment- page 18

one example cited in the indictment is this:

"On or about November 3, 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators purchased an advertisement to promote a post on the ORGANIZATION-controlled Instagram account “Blacktivist” that read in part: “Choose peace and vote for Jill Stein. Trust me, it’s not a wasted vote.”

Not connected to this indictment, there was a news report several weeks ago about Russian paid Facebook ad for Jill Stein

[FarCenter]

18. OK, I missed that. Any other mentions?

I wish they'd make their pdfs searchable.

[Cha]

20. Choose peace and vote for Jill Stein. Trust me, its not a wasted vote.

Yeah, it was.

Thank you, wishstar!

[George II]

17. Yes there is. Search the document and you'll find it.

[gibraltar72]

15. Betsy helped.

[betsuni]

23. K&R

[mcar]

24. Put that together with AA votes suppressed

And you've got a big turnaround.

[Tatiana]

26. I still believe Michigan was stolen.

Meaning many Hillary votes in Detroit were "disappeared."

[Demsrule86]

42. They threw out a huge number of 'spoiled' ballots in Detroit.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

38. So what about all the people here at the time (prior to our DU hack) who

acted like they couldn't possibly, ever, no-how !, switch allegiances from Bernie? What percentage were real, true, valid, DUers?