Indictment: Russians conspired to help Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders

[RandySF]

Wow.

[dalton99a]

1. Now an undeniable fact.

[FarPoint]

179. I feel validation now...

DU was infested with Russian Trolls....

[WhiteTara]

181. So many trolls that DU split over

the fake news and the rabid conspiracy theories.

[FarPoint]

185. Absolutely.

The Trolls also teamed up on normal Du'ers. Many were run off or given a Tombstone.

[WhiteTara]

188. That is very true. We lost some VERY fine people

I mean truly fine...not Trump fine.

[FarPoint]

193. We, the long term DU'ERS..

We are but a shell of our vibrant group...I miss the good old days of healthy discussion.

[WhiteTara]

196. Me too FarPoint

I miss so many of the really old time DUers...so many dead, so many tombstoned. But I can't quit the place. Where would I go?

[FarPoint]

200. I'm still here too...It was a beautiful time, back in the day .

I learned so much from everyone back then.

[yardwork]

213. Yes it was.

[Me.]

2. Double WOW

Bots for Bernie

[Blue_true]

139. They were not for Bernie as much as they were for causing chaos.

They saw the strife taking place in the Democratic Party during the primary and took advantage of that. I think that they helped Trump to get Trump elected.

As we head into midterms and later, the start of the democratic presidential primary process, I hope that people that favor democrats don't savage each other's candidate, sit out when their choice doesn't win the primary.

[Cary]

154. Did we not state that obvious fact clearly enough?

I know I did and I got plenty of abuse for pointing this out.

[yardwork]

214. Yes, you did.

[Me.]

171. I Hope Democrats Don't Savage Each Others Candidates Too

But as far as non-Dems, anything is fair game

[sheshe2]

4. What woah!

[Me.]

9. Right?

I wonder if Devine was involved in any way given his connection to Manafort

[R B Garr]

20. Yes about DEVINE. Let's hear from him about all this.

Someone from his campaign needs to be accountable. Bernie was never attacked by our media or anyone else.

[Wwcd]

38. What happened to Hillary's voter data? Who owns that big list now?

Thank you Robert Mueller.

[R B Garr]

53. Exactly, let's revisit that whole scenario. That was no little campaign

misunderstanding, it was an intentional invasion. Another example of being told to look away and ignore what we can see for ourselves.

[Wwcd]

66. Yup. And as soon as that news hit the headlines, BAM! Assange drops a

conveniently held bomb to redirect attention on ...The DNC & The smear campaign of DWS .."its rigged"!!

Anyone paying attention could follow the RU pattern of cover, distract, smear.

We Watched it all happen over & over.

We knew & we were silenced for making the case for the truth.
There's a lot to be made right...

Thank you Robert Mueller.

[Me.]

173. Yes Indeed

and there is a price that must be paid and it won't be the presidency

[Demsrule86]

234. The DNC has her list.

[mcar]

110. You gotta wonder, right?

I wonder if he's under the microscope.

[Me.]

174. I'll Be Honest

I want answers about this and that college deal in Vermont an well as toxic dumps

[mcar]

176. It was never appropriate for some to demand answers from HRC

about everything truth and lie, but give other pols a pass on questions.

[Me.]

177. Exactly

those days end TODAY

[mcar]

182. They should end today

[yardwork]

215. Where are the tax returns?

[MelissaB]

15. Really?

We'll have to wait and see what comes out.

[Fullduplexxx]

16. No i dont believe that i'll go remove it

[bobbieinok]

6. Out of loop on this. What is your source?? Is this proof? Recent? What?

[Me.]

10. The Indictment By Mueller States There Were Bots For Bernie

last 2 pages I believe

[bobbieinok]

11. SORRY. Checked DU front page and see breaking news

[dixiegrrrrl]

241. Here: online page of the indictment.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/rosenstein-mueller-indictment-russia/553601/

[NurseJackie]

7. I always figured. This doesn't surprise me at all.

So glad that Mueller is connecting the dots and doing it in a public way.

[sheshe2]

21. Lots of shoes dropping today.

Go Mueller!

[democratisphere]

57. Raining ass kicking boots today.

[sheshe2]

58. Lol!

[struggle4progress]

229. +

I am SO stealing that!

[wasupaloopa]

44. Its why we had to set up our own Hillary site. Thank you Bill

Last edited Fri Feb 16, 2018, 06:26 PM - Edit history (1)

[William769]

63. Thank you.

We kicked those bots ass's right back to JPR.

[murielm99]

239. It was great that you were there for us.

I thank you, too.

p.s. It is good to see you here again.

[William769]

240. Thank you for the kind words.

Glad to be here with you all again.

[Eliot Rosewater]

84. Yeah, when my belief of who certain people really are is known to all, it will maybe be too late.

I wont take any pleasure in having said told you so.

[NBachers]

134. Publicly embracing Hillary and supporting Obama on DU - Remember what risky behavior that was?

It was a non-stop riot of ridicule, misdirection, and piling-on here. I'll never forget it.

[Me.]

175. I Haven't Forgotten

how the comrade bots behaved on here

[sheshe2]

191. I remember it well.

I remember being called an Obamabot then a Hillbot regularly.

[yardwork]

237. Yes, it was impossible to have a conversation about Hillary.

Every single thread was disrupted.

[Tarheel_Dem]

8. I knew it! Something smelled about both campaigns. Stick a fork in Bernie...he's done. n/t

[MelissaB]

19. IF there are dots to be connected

I hope they are. Air all the dirty laundry. Just get it out there.

Note to anybody reading: I was a Bernie primary supporter who voted for Hillary in the election.

This is about our Democracy and not one candidate.

[R B Garr]

22. Nice post, MelissaB

[MelissaB]

24. Thank you!

[mountain grammy]

52. Agree! Thank you.

I was also a Bernie primary supporter, not a bot. Voted Hillary. Still not a bot.

[elmac]

100. Same here, Bernie primary supporter who voted for my president Hillary Clinton

and I will always be a Bernie supporter because we will never have a true Democracy as long as capitalism and its stinking money control our government.

[sarge43]

101. Thank you, MelissaB

Same here

Returning salute

[mcar]

111. This is about our Democracy and not one candidate.

This +1000!

[BannonsLiver]

31. +1

[shanny]

83. Riiiiight.

Who was it who bought into the Bernie bros myth? And that is somehow Bernie's fault?

[Cobalt Violet]

117. Yup!

[stevenleser]

150. Bernie Bros a myth? The Sanders campaign made public statements saying it was aware of them

and attempting to do something about their behavior.

That's some myth when the campaign acknowledges them.

[sheshe2]

192. Ding ding ding!!!!!

Truth

[Tarheel_Dem]

168. Doesn't matter whose fault it is. He's damaged by this, and any future national run will be shaded

by it. I can't think of many true "Democrats" who won't take this new information into consideration when choosing a candidate to support.

[yardwork]

216. If he runs again he MUST release all his tax returns.

I don't think he will run again for the presidency.

[Tarheel_Dem]

227. I am still mystified as to why he wouldn't release them in the first place, and I'm even more....

shocked that any actual "Democrat" would go along with it.

[yardwork]

231. I'm not surprised that he suppressed them and I don't think he'll ever release them.

But this time I don't think people will give it a pass.

[appalachiablue]

218. Never bought the Bros thing and glad I missed Obama Boys, jeeze.

[FailureToCommunicate]

106. And, if true, how is this (Senator) Bernie's fault exactly?

[liberalnarb]

125. Right! Trump conspired with Russians. Bernie did not.

[stevenleser]

152. I'll tell you how. In my opinion he didn't do enough to stop the acrimony among his supporters

against Hillary. And I am talking from the very beginning of the campaign.

The kind of stuff that made what seemed like erstwhile normal DUers become the raving lunatics that now inhabit JPR is stuff that Sanders and his campaign should have stopped from day 1.

[FailureToCommunicate]

153. And "enough" for you would have been what? Sanders didn't fan those ravers.

But we digress. The PRIMARIES are long over. Bernie supported Hillary in the General, remember?

And so did most Bernie supporters.

[stevenleser]

158. That is an easy question to answer. Here is what he should have said repeatedly:

I think Hillary is a great person. All the things being said about her in terms of ethics or other issues are wrong. She is a great person and she believes in many of the same things I believe. She is not "corporate" or against regular working people. She and I just have a different belief in terms of how aggressive we should move on the progressive vision.

Anyone saying anything against her character should stop.

[mcar]

180. It should have been an easy thing to say, Steven

I still wonder why it wasn't said.

[stevenleser]

225. To me the reason is obvious, Sanders intended to ride that wave of poison to the

nomination.

What the 2016 Democratic Nomination process needed of Sanders was a John McCain moment where Sanders stood up to his own supporters and told them to knock it off.

That needed to start early and repeat as needed.

The fact that this didn’t happen is one of the many factors that contributed to Trump stealing the election

[Tarheel_Dem]

170. Doesn't matter whose fault it is. The Russian state showed a preference for Hillary's foes in the..

primary and the GE. I'd quit trying to shove Bernie down the throats of "Democrats". It can't end well. JMHO.

[BoneyardDem]

12. holy crap....

the indictment and this one little tid bit:

Trump was briefed this morning on the indictments by FBI Director Wray and Deputy A.G. Rosenstein, the White House says.

https://www.axios.com/mueller-indicts-13-russian-nationals-for-conspiracy-2498f173-ad1a-4609-b233-c40ea0c041dc.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=twsocialshare&utm_campaign=organic

[sheshe2]

26. Oh to be a fly on the wall!

Bet he is going ballistic!

[Wwcd]

42. Explains why he's heading to the Mara lago hidey hole

Don't leave the country, Trump!

[Skidmore]

13. Wow, indeed!

This is an opening salvo.

[MelissaB]

14. I was a huge Bernie supporter, and this doesn't surprise me.

Maybe because I was targeted on facebook and saw so many ads? I don't know...

[ooky]

67. It doesnt surprise me ither but it doesnt mean he was involved.

I was also a Bernie supporter. He stands for strong democratic values, had traction, and I felt he would defeat a Republican candidate with the message he was sending. I also didn’t get suckered into not voting for Clinton when he didn’t win the nomination.

I would bet the farm that Bernie has nothing to do with this.

[MuseRider]

72. Who else on the Democratic side

were they going to support if they wanted Hillary out? The other 2 guys, what were their names? Yeah, Bernie was the only one they could use.

Get all the info out. I refuse to even suspect Bernie was in on this but if he was then all that changes.

[dae]

140. +1...

I downloaded the database NBC has of the twitter accounts. I have not found any account I followed yet but still looking.

I also voted Bernie in the primary and Hillary in GE.

[MuseRider]

143. Yea, I did not have any of them either.

I figured I probably did but there was nothing. I had reasons to support him and did not need anyone to tell me why I should. I had reasons not to support Hillary and did not need anyone to tell me why I should or should not feel that way. I guess I do not understand the mess this all caused. Do people just routinely believe whatever they read? My reasons were long and supported by what they had said and done in the past. It is a sad day that our country is filled with people who cannot listen for themselves and make a decision based on actual information. It is a bigger shame that actual information is hard to come by on some sites or stations.

[dae]

145. Agree 100%, I have no regrets about supporting Bernie. If he run as

Democrat in 2020 I’ll probably support him again.

[Tarheel_Dem]

172. We won't have to worry about Bernie running as a Democrat in 2020. Bank on it! nt

[dae]

220. Thanks but Ill wait and see.

[Tarheel_Dem]

228. Have fun waiting.

[MelissaB]

74. I agree!

I'd bet that Bernie had nothing to do w/ this, too.

[mcar]

114. He may not, ooky

But how would Bernie supporters, Rs and the media be reacting if the news were reversed, if HRC's campaign been aided, at least, by Russia?

No one would be giving her the benefit of the doubt.

[ooky]

186. I would not have believed

Hillary conspired with Russians either, any more than I believed any of the other nonsense that has been made up about her. You would have to poll other Sanders supporters. As for Rs and media we both know the answer to that.

[mcar]

189. K

[NastyRiffraff]

157. Nobody is saying that Bernie conspired with them

Honestly, I don't know if he did. I DO know that he saw what was happening and did little or nothing to stop it. His behavior at the Democratic Convention made me sick. The bros tried to disrupt and he just sat there, slumped and grumpy.

[sheshe2]

194. And that one picture...

Very angry.

[George II]

17. They conspired to promote trump and Sanders and disparage Hillary Clinton. This is a BFD!!

[NurseJackie]

91. They certainly did. BOTH of those candidates BENEFITTED...

... but that's all I dare say. I won't go into much more detail or express my opinions for obvious reasons.

[George II]

94. In hindsight, this may explain a LOT of what went on in 2016.

[mcar]

115. It sure seems to explain a lot, George

[Dennis Donovan]

146. Bernie benefited so much he won the primary!!!!

...oh, wait.

[NurseJackie]

147. Winning the primary isn't the only benefit.

[Dennis Donovan]

149. Why, you're right! Bernie's a ruble-laden billionaire now!

...oh, wait.

[NurseJackie]

151. Who knows? Hard to say for sure. Maybe the tax returns will reveal something...

... oh, wait.

[Dennis Donovan]

156. Good one!

...except Senator Sanders broke no laws by not releasing his returns.

[mcar]

187. Moving the goalposts

Please point to who said he broke laws.

It is the standard for a politician to release tax returns. HRC released decades worth. BS didnt release one. Neither did Dotard. That is the issue here.

[Tarheel_Dem]

178. Only two candidates refused to reveal their tax returns. Just happens to be the two the Russians...

supported. There are coincidences, but in hindsight, this is one of those things that make you go hhhmmmm......

[yardwork]

232. The point was to elect Trump. Bernie was used as a wedge to divide Democrats.

It worked.

[herding cats]

18. Yes, and they directed people to vote Jill Stein over Hillary.

They sowed anger and discontent via propaganda and now it’s all out there for everyone to see.

None of this is surprising but it’s good to finally have what we suspected be confirmed.

[BoneyardDem]

25. "They sowed anger and discontent..."

right here on DU...I was responding to malcontent posters hammering Dems just yesterday.

[herding cats]

48. I ran into some of the same terms used in their propaganda here in 2016.

I also saw some of the same subject matter being brandied about, so it’s obvious their influence was felt here. It was felt everyplace on the internet.

Malcom Nance was just on MSNBC pointing out how they started this propaganda campaign way back in 2013 per the intelligence gathered. They’d been setting the tone for their attack on Hillary that long and were planting the seeds of their narrative all that time. 2016 was just the end game when they pulled it all together.

[yardwork]

233. Anointed, oligarch, etc.

[herding cats]

235. Yes, those were adopted and used freely.

It’s scary how well the propaganda influenced the narrative.

[yardwork]

236. Both those terms echo Russian culture. I was suspicious from the beginning.

In the US, the word "oligarch" is usually in reference to Russia. The word "anointed" echoes the Eastern Orthodox Church.

[Blue_true]

141. I hope the people that voted Stein, wrote in or sat home

realize that they were manipulated.

[herding cats]

148. As do I.

Some will, I’m sure. Otheres will double down on their belief that they would have come to the same conclusion without Russia interfering to lead them there.

You have to remember Russia had been spreading their lies here about Hillary for years before the election. They just honed and went all in in 2015-2016. There are bound to be people out there who honestly believe their convictions predate the 2016 election cycle and thus Russian influence.

Then there’s WikiLeaks and Assange... this specific indictment doesn’t touch on what was done in Russia’s name by them. There’s many people out there who still believe the Russian propaganda they were spoon fed by Assange!

[mcar]

190. And can we please, finally stop with the

"Dems have to reach out to them" nonsense?

[sheshe2]

195. Hell yes!

Thank you mcar.

[mcar]

197. I am done with this silliness, she

[CentralMass]

23. Do you think that Sanders was involved with this ?

Do you thiink that he or his campaign were working with the Russians to undermine Hillary ?


As I read the details these Russian operating in Texad targeted Black voters to get the to either note vote or vote for Jill Stein or Bernie Sanders in just few specific states.

Do think this is was effective. Were massive number of African American voters persuaded?

Is this your smoking gun ?

[BoneyardDem]

28. I don't rmember Sanders trying to reign anyone in.,..even when shit messages were pointed out

Bot or Bernie Bros, all got the message they could continue with impunity.

[R B Garr]

33. Exactly. It wasn't until it was unavoidable news that he mentioned Russian

interference. He didn't try and shut anything down or denounce it until then...

[Sophia4]

118. Bernie drew huge crowds without any help from anyone.

Bernie's message was what drew the crowds.

The Russians may have tried to give him a boost, but Bernie's message about extreme income inequality and its repercussions in our society was what brought in his crowds.

The children of too many of my friends can't find real jobs -- and the children are well educated.

Bernie's message was strong.

[BoneyardDem]

121. bernie lost, and likley would have lost by even more if not for the Russian assistance he accepted

The children of too many of my friends can't find real jobs -- and the children are well educated

Not sure what that has to do with anything. Remember, Bernie was the one who was well educated and avoided a regular job for the first 30+ years of his life.

[Sophia4]

207. My comment about my friends' children has to do with the fact that focusing on

economic inequality and related issues resonates with many, many Americans.

[BoneyardDem]

209. You got on the wrong train, or are deliberately trying to change the subject.

[R B Garr]

155. Oh, please. His message was one of the reasons the

Russians supported him. It was anti/Democrat and especially anti-Hillary. It was anti-Wall Street, anti-Establishment.

All the candidates got crowds. CRIMINAL indictments were issued today about the measures taken from all directions to undermine Hillary and you again ignore reality. Supporting Bernie’s campaign is mentioned in the criminal indictments. Truly unbelievable that you ignore today’s news, real events all over the news.

HISTORY now shows that the crowds didn’t turn into votes. He should have quit when he lost early on.

[Sophia4]

204. Hillary had over 55 % of the delegates, and Bernie had over 43% of the delegates

at the Democratic convention.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016

[R B Garr]

206. Hillary has been a Democrat for decades. nt

[boston bean]

163. Trump had huge crowds.

[sheshe2]

199. So did Don...

Oh wait, Don got them with the Russian interference....but Bernie....

[Sophia4]

203. Both drew large crowds.

I don't know the extent of Russian interference for Bernie yet.

[sheshe2]

205. Nor do I.

We will await for Mueller.

[Sophia4]

120. You mean "rein," not "reign."

I always have to think about this myself.

Rein In

Reins are the straps you use to control a horse, and the word rein comes to English from a Latin word that means "to hold back." Remember that rein in is the correct spelling by thinking of the troublesome person you need to rein in as a troublesome horse that you need to get under control.

. . . .

Reign

Reigning is something a king or queen does. The period of time during which a monarch rules a country is also referred to as his or her reign.

https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/reign-rein-and-rain

This is good information to know. As I said, I often have to check myself on this one.

[BoneyardDem]

122. It's a good think you understood what I meant.

[Sophia4]

126. Yes. A good think.

[BoneyardDem]

127. got you thinging

[Sophia4]

131. Ahhh! The English language.

[sheshe2]

198. You are a hoot...

Good job.

[lark]

29. I absolutely do not believe Bernie would do this.

I hope I'm right, but the way things are going these days, it's hard to know.

[R B Garr]

30. Tad Devine has Russian connections. Russia Today is a known

propaganda arm of Putin. Did Bernie denounce Russian interference until recently when it was unavoidable news??

[LisaM]

107. I don't think Bernie chose some of his advisors wisely.

That was one big problem I had with him. I found Devine and Weaver distasteful, not to mention Jeffrey Sachs, who I really dislike.

[R B Garr]

160. Agreed, they personified the combativeness and divisiveness

they willingly adopted to pander to the anti/Democrat crowd. That’s what makes me suspicious about how much Devine was following the Russian playbook. Most of their hostility was bizarrely misplaced like it was an act.

[George II]

116. Didn't Tad Devine have business dealings in the Ukraine with the now indicted Paul Manafort?

[R B Garr]

162. Yes, and Tad Devine had to know the Russian playbook. nt

[seaglass]

32. I do not like Bernie at all - but I find it difficult to believe that he was involved. So my answer

to you is no.

[ooky]

61. He wasnt. Its nonsense.

My common sense tells me that every bot in this election was about electing Trump. Bots “for Bernie” or bots “for Stein” were part of the right wing subplot to divide the democratic party so Trump and Republicans would be elected, and it worked.

[LiberalLovinLug]

95. Yes. And its still working on a few just reading through the thread

OF COURSE Putin bots were targeting Bernie sites. That's already been established. Might have even affected some independents votes.

To then turn that around as some kind of "proof" that Bernie is a servant of Putin is ludicrous.

[BoneyardDem]

34. At the very least this is finally one good reason the Sanders' Tax forms were never produced

this does explain that non disclosure.

Never did get a good explanation, other than it just wasn't done yet

[CentralMass]

37. I have issues with the tax forms as well but don't think it has anything to do with this.

[BoneyardDem]

47. many Sanders supporters would never have guessed Bernie's name would have shown up at all

...under the circumstances of this indictment.

The lack of tax returns was always suspect. ALWAYS.

[CentralMass]

56. There us nothig in this indictment that indicates that Sanders has any involvement in this.

Who stood to benefit from minority voters not voting for Hillary in the general ?

[BoneyardDem]

69. did I say he was involved? His name is in the indictment though. Protectionism is not necesary

[CentralMass]

73. Why would anyone be surprised that the Russians were trying to get Trump elected.

Clearly trying to get people to note vote vote for Hillary is no suprise.

[LiberalLovinLug]

102. That Russians were infiltrating Bernie sites is not a new revelation to Bernie supporters

That was established months ago. Why would the follow up indictment for this behaviour be a surprise?

[BoneyardDem]

105. agreed....yet so many still deny the interferance with every fiber of their being. see JPR.

[LiberalLovinLug]

113. I'd say the vast majority of Bernie supporters are smart enough to believe it happened.

Maybe not while it was going on. Many didn't from all corners.

But, especially after it was confirmed, it only makes logical sense that Putin would try and help any competitors of Hillary. Not just Trump sites, and FB, but both Stein and Sanders sites, message boards...
Anyone that refuses to accept that is an idiot. Yes there are a few "Soros is Doctor Evil" whackos on that site, but on the whole, even on JPR, they must accept logic.

[maryallen]

144. Yes, you did.

Per BoneyardDem's Post #121, you typed:
"the Russian assistance he (i.e., Bernie) accepted."
There is no proof Bernie "accepted" any such arrangement. If, you have validation, please post this information.

[Me.]

70. Yep, THat Tax Return Business Is A Problem

maybe even huge

[CentralMass]

79. Are you say I g that his tax returns a relevant to Russians in Texas?

[BoneyardDem]

93. His tax returns, his vote against Russia Sanctions, his name mentioned in the indictment

why could they not be related?

Bernie derived a benefit from Russians harming Hillary and pushing voters to he and Stein.

[uponit7771]

85. +1

[NurseJackie]

130. You are not alone in your suspicions.

[Hav]

43. I doubt it

I also doubt that a majority of his supporters or anyone else even thought about something like this happening. I don't remember how much was known about this kind of bot activities back then. I'm pretty sure that the intentions behind their actions were more anti-Clinton than pro-Sanders and all they intended to achieve was causing division in the Dem party. They were successful and got what they wanted. Had Sanders won, they would have played the same game for the general election.

[loyalsister]

68. I think exploitation of Bernie's campaign is a possibility

But collusion and conspiracy is very far fetched. The exploitation will continue if people relish accusations in an effort to refight the primary and spin conspiracy theories.

[George II]

80. Clinton lost Michigan (blacks) by a tiny percentage. It had to have been effective there.

[John Fante]

81. I don't believe so.

But he was one of the few senators to vote against sanctioning Russia last year. Optics = bad.

[Eliot Rosewater]

86. YOUR smoking gun? Are you alleging an agenda of the OP?

I thought we were all DEMOCRATS here and Americans and what we want is the TRUTH and to elect DEMOCRATS

???

[elmac]

103. I'm sure Putin was involved in it and his hatred for the Clintons goes back a long way

I think the russians would help anyone in order to hurt Hillary and no, I don't think Bernie was involved.

[William769]

27. Wow!

[Wwcd]

35. I have 4 hides for telling the truth about BS.

I'd like them removed now.


Told Ya!!

[CentralMass]

41. The truth that Russians undermining Hillary to benefit of electing tRump

involved Bernie Sanders ?

[Wwcd]

46. Ask Robert Mueller

[CentralMass]

51. There is nothing in that indictment indicating Bernie Sanders of having anything to do with this.

[Wwcd]

78. 😎

Ok

[George II]

82. Remember, Rosenstein pointedly said "in this indictment", hinting that there will be others.

There's lots more to come.

[Me.]

76. Quite

[triron]

39. and Jill Stein.

[SunSeeker]

99. Yep. nt

[nycbos]

40. A suggested statement for Mr. Sanders

"I am extremely angry to discover a foreign hostile power used their influence operation to support my campaign. I will fully cooperate with the special counsel's investigation. If anyone on my campaign team was working with the Russian government I hope they get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."

[CentralMass]

45. I doubt that hed has anything whatsoever to answer for on this matter.

[boston bean]

165. I have to say. It is a little suspicious he voted against russian sanctions.

[nycbos]

166. Yup yup yup

[Tarheel_Dem]

184. "Suspicious" indeed. I'm almost certain Tad Devine is in this up to his neck. n/t

[R B Garr]

211. Sure looks that way. Trumps smears against Hillary

were identical to Bernie’s attacks against her. Never able or required to offer proof, but that didn’t stop them.

[Tarheel_Dem]

212. Devine & Co were much sleazier than even Donald Trump, and that's saying something. n/t

[sheshe2]

201. Yes indeed.

[tirebiter]

49. People in the Bernie organisation noticed this

And reported it to the FBI fairly early on. The Bernie Bros were out of their control. I would have to hear more to assume any collusion there.

[moondust]

50. No no no!

You must join the lynch mob!!!!

Lynch mob now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HootieMcBoob]

71. Thank you

The so called “Bernie Bros” who were aggressive and misogynistic were Russian Bots. It always seemed so weird to me when I heard about all of the horrible things that were being attributed to Sanders supporters. It never reflected any of the actual people that I came into contact with.

[Cha]

54. Of course they did! Indictments from

Mueller!

[Blue_Tires]

55. What? Don't tell me folks are actually surprised to read this...

[CentralMass]

59. The indictment does not indicate any involvement by Bernie Sanders.

[MelissaB]

62. Would you like some pepperoni on your pizza?

[William769]

64. It's so easy to bring them out of the woodwork.

[MelissaB]

65. Yup! Hillary and Maxine Waters. Post a positive thread about Maxine and they are on it

like stink on sh*t.

[Eliot Rosewater]

90. You notice that too, unconditional support of the D party is the most dangerous thing you can do

here, yep.

[hamsterjill]

75. So those of us who were/are Hillary supporters

Can pat ourselves on the back for being smart enough not to fall for it!!!

[Amsterdammer]

133. Never fell for it

...supported HRC the entire way and voted for her with delight and excitement, America's soon-to-be 1st female President, sadly decades behind so many other countries. I saw the smear campaign begin when she was FLOTUS. Watched with shock and chagrin at my colleagues at work who demonized her throughout her campaign--thought of them as weak-minded pawns. I'm presently in the Czech Republic, visiting my in-laws...shocked and dismayed with fake news stories being fed to the Czechs from RT (Russian media)...sadly, my mother-in-law is buying into all of it, this after the Russians fucked the Czechs out of forty-some years of their lives with that tasty, delicious Communist shit...I guess she's already forgotten how shitty it all was...today she read to me what she had been reading about the Parkland shootings, that it could just all be a hoax OR (yes, OR!) there must have been multiple shooters. My wife thinks her own mother is a fruitcake...sad. Looking forward to being back in Amsterdam next week--with a much higher percentage of people who seek out the truth by seeking facts from multiple sources.

[4now]

77. I hope that we learn from this

and that we are much smarter next time.

[Blue_true]

142. That is my hope also.

Have our primaries, but in the general vote for the democrat.

[TomCADem]

87. How did they vote on Russia Sanctions?

[Eliot Rosewater]

89. Now that you mention it...

[LexVegas]

88. Not surprised on either count. nt

[Gothmog]

92. Key lines from MUELLER indictment of 13 RUSSIANS accused of meddling in U.S. election

WOW https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook-power-briefing/2018/02/16/mueller-indicts-13-russians-for-allegedly-meddling-in-2016-election-fbi-says-protocols-were-not-followed-when-they-received-tip-on-parkland-shooter-va-cos-resigns-249433

KEY LINES … “Some Defendants, posing as U.S. persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities.”

-- “They engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump.”

[BoneyardDem]

96. so the fears that this lets Trump off the hook....shouldn't be a pearl clutching issue at this time?

several posters are already gearing up....

[bluescribbler]

97. It's Mueller Time!!!

Waiting for the next shoes to drop.

[malthaussen]

98. Right on time.

I figured that would be mentioned as soon as I saw it in the indictment.

-- Mal

[Hekate]

104. Conspiracy. Not collusion. Conspiracy.

[mcar]

108. This is huge!

[IronLionZion]

109. It's because Sanders and Trump had immigrant parents from Europe

said no one ever.

The wall doesn't help defend our country against Russians

No travel bans against Russia

No profiling people who look Russian

No law enforcement actions targeting Russians

No one viewing Americans with Russian sounding names as suspicious (Ivanka)

Nope, nothing, nada, just continue to randomly select brown people for extra screening at airports and black people for stop and frisk on the street.

[klook]

112. Attention DUers! Infighting on Aisle 12! Everybody join in!!1!1!!

In the 37-page indictment, attacks on Hillary Clinton are mentioned 11 times, and support for Trump is mentioned 12 times (that I can find). There is one reference to use of "fictitious online personas" to profess support for Sanders, and no suggestion that Sanders or his campaign had a hand in this deception.

Yet your OP lists Trump and Sanders as coequal beneficiaries of this campaign.

Curious.



Trashing thread.

[tenderfoot]

119. But but the DNC...

[stevenleser]

161. That's "delusional" and what is really delusional is that you just repeated a Russian meme

against Hillary in your attempt to say that Russian meme's had no effect.

"political dynasty"

[Codeine]

167. Get the fuck outta here with your bullshit. nt

[bluedigger]

124. I guess that's one way to frame the narrative.

[Cha]

128. Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders, and Jill Stein all appear to have been helped by Russian election

interference

"The indictment outlines the lengths Russia went to influence the election in favor of Donald Trump and against Hillary Clinton — including by supporting Bernie Sanders (and, later, Jill Stein)."

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/16/17021248/russian-election-interference-sanders-stein-trump

pnwmom https://www.democraticunderground.com/10141989617#top

[Bluepinky]

221. Bernie won most of his support based on his own views, didnt need Russias help.

He won over me, my husband, daughter and friends with his fiery and motivational discussions on income inequality, universal healthcare and affordable public education. Millions of people supported him because he was the most progressive candidate, no Russia needed. I voted for Hillary in the general election, and she would have been a fine President, but she didn’t inspire people the way Bernie did.

[Cha]

222. Millions were Inspired by Hilary.. way more

the two running against her. And, the damn Russians were helping both of them.

Millions.. don't try to rewrite history for me, bluepinky.

[Bluepinky]

224. Nope, Russia wasnt helping Bernie, they were trying to hurt Hillary.

Bernie didn’t ask for or need help from Russia.

It’s funny you and others turn every thread into a Hillary vs Bernie thread. What’s the point?

And yes, Bernie inspired millions of us.

[Cha]

226. Millions more were Inspired by Hillary.

Thank Goodness!

[athenasatanjesus]

129. At least Bernie didn't take most of the bait.

Once he lost he tried pretty hard not to attack Hillary even when reporters tried hard to goad him into it.
Also as a Bernie supporter myself, I knew any type of socialist even one that's really a capitalist would have no chance unless someone with power was exploiting them.

[hueymahl]

132. I see the Bernie Bashers are out in force

Color me shocked.

[RandySF]

135. What did I just post that's not true?

[hueymahl]

138. I was not referring to you or your OP. NT

[BoneyardDem]

137. some posters had previously garnered many "hides" for speaking out on Bernie

not lies not fake news, but referencing his essays for instance. Things that are documented and factual.

The frustration at not being able to speak has burst it's dam(n). I have not seen one episode of anyone calling Bernie a lying POS, like had been done to Obama here on DU. You are seeing a very mild response imho.

[Codeine]

169. Considering how often I got swarmed

and alert-stalked by the ‘bros I reserve the right to be irritated, and this information confirms a lot of my suspicions.

[yardwork]

217. Where are the Sanders' tax returns? Why didn't they release them?

[Bluepinky]

219. I know, they jump at any excuse to throw Bernie under the bus.

So predictable.

Are they aware that Bernie didn’t win the presidential primary? If Russia tried to help him win, they did a piss-poor job of it.

[ismnotwasm]

136. Gee who knew?

Oh wait..

[tammywammy]

159. I am shocked, shocked I tell you!

It was obvious during the primary, except to those that were willfully blind to it.

[ffr]

164. Mueller's strategic flanking move around conservative swamp colluders.

They'll have no defense for firing or justifying Rosenstein now.



Brilliant democracy saving move. Could be THE move of the decade.

[SidDithers]

183. DU rec...nt

Sid

[Renew Deal]

202. Sanders candidacy was always about keeping Hillary from having an easy path to the White House

Last edited Sat Feb 17, 2018, 04:24 AM - Edit history (1)

There was no other serious competition. The Russians like to take advantage of division. They used Sanders as a tool to split Democrats.

How did that voter database leak again?

[JCanete]

230. that's true, and is a favorite of the Corp media to do too...never take the lefty

candidate seriously UNTIL that person is no threat to actually win, and then they give them a platform with the hopes of sewing division. That said though, I doubt very much that Sander's popularity this previous cycle can be laid at the feet of Russian intervention. That isn't the crux of what was going on.

[mr_lebowski]

208. Exciting as it SOUNDS, I'm having trouble understanding what exactly is the CRIME?

These Russians were 'Indicted for Interference in US Presidential Campaign'?

Is that an actual Statute that's written down somewhere?

If not, what's the real/actual CHARGE? Spreading propaganda to help/hurt POTUS candidates is not AFAIK, technically 'illegal' is it? Or is it illegal simply by virtue of their being 'foreign actors'?

Would've REALLY liked to see some serious like, illegal hacking, laundering, wire fraud, tax evasion, illegal donations/campaign finance violation charges ... hopefully that'll happen to some Americans (coughtrumpcough)

When I read 13 Russians INDICTED ... I thought some Russians were actually going to go to jail for some semblance of a serious crime. At worst these people won't be allowed into the USA and maybe have funds frozen. They won't, like, not be able to leave Russia without CIA/Interpol looking for 'em to arrest them or some shit.

If it's just 'foreign interference in elections' this is like ... small potatoes.

Though at least it's possibly a 'set up' for much more serious charges upon US actors.

Also, no way do I think Bernie was intentionally involved in ANY of this bullshit.

[jalan48]

210. I hope paranoia doesn't become the ruling element in our Party.

[yardwork]

238. Paranoia is what I saw on DU in 2016. This is fresh air.

[BlueDog22]

223. Good

Hopefully this is a step towards toppling Trump.