Economically Stressed Trumpers Deserve Their Misery. Wouldn't Feed Or Help Them.

[TheMastersNemesis]

Trumpets do not deserve to he helped when they are in distress. They are so hateful why would one bother when they are so nasty and violent. You just cannot reason with this scum.

I am just so sick of their racism, hate and antics. And there is no reason to be civil to them. I do not know how yo deal with a base that acts like a rabid dog or a bunch of barbarians. We are in a civil war with them in actuality. When you speak up all you get is intimidation, threats of violence and even death threats.

I do not believe we can stem the push for white supremacism without a fight. Trump and GOP enabling these goons for political power no matter what it does to the country.

[HopeAgain]

1. Great way to vent, I hope you would not really let anyone starve.

These impoverished Trumpers are ignorant. Studies show the more remote they are from exposure to minorities, the more likely they are to be bigoted. I believe anyone can be taught to think differently, and extending a hand to one in need can be a great teacher.

[TheMastersNemesis]

2. I Probably Would Not Do That But It Sure Is Tempting.

There are times when the high road is no longer an option. So when do you say enough is enough? So far nothing seems to work on them. . Certainly do not want o be cruel, but you cannot let them go on with their savagery without response.

[NCDem777]

46. They knew what they were getting into

It's not about remoteness. It's about walking into the mouth of hell eyes wide fucking open.

For 40 years, they've looked at Democrats say:

"Hey! Your community is being decimated by outsourcing. Let's do something about that."

"Hey! The health insurance companies won't cover your black lung disease. How about we get some universal healthcare going?"

"Hey! Duke energy just dumped a bunch of toxic shit in your river and then raised your prices to clean it up. That's wrong."

But then the Republicans scream ABOOOOORSHUN! And the hicks hand them an HIV tainted spiked dildo and pull their pants down.

I'm done. If the hicks die because of black lung disease, GOOD! One less redhat at the ballot box! If they get cancer because their rivers get contaminated by coal ash, tough fucking shit. Most Trumpers knew exactly what they were getting into. But they chose to screw themselves because it might "trigger" someone.

Helping them in a time of crisis they directly fucking created is like getting involved with a crazy violent drug addict because "you can change them."

All you get is beaten senseless for the trouble.

[cyclonefence]

3. Unfortunately,

the Trumpers I know are lawyers and business owners who are rejoicing in their tax cuts. They think this is all great, and I know that if given the chance they'd vote for him again.

In fact, they are probably more likely to refuse to help a needy Trumper than you are!

[quartz007]

52. You are not correct!

Every lawyer I have come across votes democratic. My daughter is a lawyer, and she votes democratic. Trump voters are blue collar workers in PA & WI, small business owners everywhere, and the rednecks in south.

[cyclonefence]

57. I know two lawyers, one of them a college professor,

who not only voted for Trump, but who vigorously supports him in conversation. The business owner is my next door neighbor, who had a 3x5' Trump sign in his yard for months after the election.

There's no arguing with personal experience, but the essay, The First White President, is revelatory about who voted for Trump. You might want to take a look: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/10/the-first-white-president-ta-nehisi-coates/537909/
It sure opened my eyes.

An excerpt:

Asserting that Trump’s rise was primarily powered by cultural resentment and economic reversal has become de rigueur among white pundits and thought leaders. But evidence for this is, at best, mixed. In a study of preelection polling data, the Gallup researchers Jonathan Rothwell and Pablo Diego-Rosell found that “people living in areas with diminished economic opportunity” were “somewhat more likely to support Trump.” But the researchers also found that voters in their study who supported Trump generally had a higher mean household income ($81,898) than those who did not ($77,046). Those who approved of Trump were “less likely to be unemployed and less likely to be employed part-time” than those who did not. They also tended to be from areas that were very white: “The racial and ethnic isolation of whites at the zip code level is one of the strongest predictors of Trump support.”

An analysis of exit polls conducted during the presidential primaries estimated the median household income of Trump supporters to be about $72,000. But even this lower number is almost double the median household income of African Americans, and $15,000 above the American median. Trump’s white support was not determined by income. According to Edison Research, Trump won whites making less than $50,000 by 20 points, whites making $50,000 to $99,999 by 28 points, and whites making $100,000 or more by 14 points. This shows that Trump assembled a broad white coalition that ran the gamut from Joe the Dishwasher to Joe the Plumber to Joe the Banker. So when white pundits cast the elevation of Trump as the handiwork of an inscrutable white working class, they are being too modest, declining to claim credit for their own economic class. Trump’s dominance among whites across class lines is of a piece with his larger dominance across nearly every white demographic. Trump won white women (+9) and white men (+31). He won white people with college degrees (+3) and white people without them (+37). He won whites ages 18–29 (+4), 30–44 (+17), 45–64 (+28), and 65 and older (+19). Trump won whites in midwestern Illinois (+11), whites in mid-Atlantic New Jersey (+12), and whites in the Sun Belt’s New Mexico (+5). In no state that Edison polled did Trump’s white support dip below 40 percent. Hillary Clinton’s did, in states as disparate as Florida, Utah, Indiana, and Kentucky. From the beer track to the wine track, from soccer moms to nascar dads, Trump’s performance among whites was dominant. According to Mother Jones, based on preelection polling data, if you tallied the popular vote of only white America to derive 2016 electoral votes, Trump would have defeated Clinton 389 to 81, with the remaining 68 votes either a toss-up or unknown.

[quartz007]

61. You said lawyers are Trump voters

That implies vast majority of lawyers. That simple is not true. Majority of lawyers vote democratic, and especially trial lawyers overwhelmingly vote democratic, because republicans are for tort reform.

[cyclonefence]

62. This is silly

I said, and I quote, "the Trumpers I know are lawyers and business owners who are rejoicing in their tax cuts. They think this is all great, and I know that if given the chance they'd vote for him again."

The Trumpers I know

Actually, I'd appreciate a source for your claim that the majority of lawyers vote democratic. Not that I doubt you; I'd just like to see where this information comes from. My gut would tell me it's true, but I continue to be amazed and dismayed by the number of educated professionals I run into who support Trump, even against their own best interests.

Did you read the Coates essay? It knocked my socks off.

[Vinca]

4. Sometimes I think the country would be better if split in two.

Of course we'd have to build one hell of a wall to keep them out once they realize they can't get medical care and Social Security has gone away.

[struggle4progress]

14. You want to split the US into an urban country and a rural country? That's a lot of wall-building:

[janterry]

25. Boy that map is sobering

The only good thing is that there are some new pockets of blue (there are some, aren't there).

We have a lot of work to do, democrats. I know that the young are on our side - but I'm old(er) now. Time's a ticking......

[struggle4progress]

26. Most of the US population is urban. Here's what happens if you scale US counties by population:

[Blue_true]

39. People clearly would have to move. nt

[hatrack]

40. Lots of fence posts, hayfields, silos, dust and corn out in that Big, Intimidating Red Zone . . .

Not many people, though.

[Blue_true]

38. Split into four countries, with mutual defense agreements.

A Left country, a Center-Left country, a center-right country, and a right country. Mutual defense agreement, at least for 30 years so that no country attacks either.

[onenote]

41. you realize that there are Trump supporters and Democrats who live next door to each other, right?

How would this split work?

[janterry]

5. I'm sick of it, too

but they have children and lost dreams. If you sit with them 1:1 they would tell you about the love's that they lost, their struggles with heart disease, diabetes, cancer - or the struggles of people that they know in their family.

From a distance, everything looks different. Close up, you hear a different timbre in their voice, one that you can empathize with.

[Fullduplexxx]

7. I cant make nice with the 'let him die' crowd . I cant make nice with nazis

To do so is to normalize them.

[Blue_true]

42. The poster is not trying to normalize Nazis.

I know Trumpers who are not Nazis or even racists. Other than their fucked up sense of economic realities, they are decent people.

[Fullduplexxx]

47. Im sorry but i dont think Decent people vote for trump ... this is part of normalization

"Their fucked up sense of economic realities" like too many illegal brown people here taking our jobs there are a lot of them in that party along with others . Funny thing about people is you never really know them and they are capable of anything

[Blue_true]

58. I see your point. But still disagree.

Yes, they blame brown and black people for their own lack of training. But some of that is more finding easy targets more than racism. Are the people well informed on race? Not remotely, but some of them still are not racist. I know one avid Trump voter who has half black grandchildren, she adore them and is always taking them places with her. The situation is more complex than you view it, and likely not as complex as I see it, that is why I chose to deal with Trumpers on a case by case basis.

[Demsrule86]

11. Great post!

[nolabear]

18. You get my last heart. Because you have one.

The OP opinion is dangerous. I’m going to assume it’s a rant but it can foment action. Thanks for seeing the humanity in those we might not be able to trust but should never encourage the extermination of.

[janterry]

22. Oh, thank you!!

But it's what I believe. I've worked with some pretty terrible folks in the prisons. You'd be surprised. Some of them were so lost you couldn't find a person anymore. But that was - by far - the exception. Most were so damaged that you could see the damage everyday, in what they said and how they approached life.

They knew that they had inflicted trauma on others. But they also carried their own trauma with them everyday. I remember one guy who felt wracked with guilt (he thought he was a 'bad' person because he had tried to stab his alcoholic and physically abusive father. This was his big secret. He told me that everyone knew how bad he was because of that incident).

But the thing is, he wasn't bad. He was traumatized by his father. Not only that - but the stabbing was when (hold on to your seat!) when he was 5 (a little tiny five year old). When I said, of course you tried to defend yourself.....he looked at me, shocked. Then we talked about what five year olds are like and his eyes widened.

He came back and everything changed. He realized that what he did was problem solve like a five year old. He hadn't hurt anyone, either (he never actually stabbed the man). And he was trying to protect himself - and his mother.

Or one woman who'd been arrested more times than any of us could count (seriously, in the 40's or 50's!). Mostly shoplifting and then drugs. She had no education and no prospects. Just a 'repeat offender.' In FL, they give you a different letter every time you come to prison (A, B, C) at the beginning of your inmate #. So, the farther down the alphabet, the more times you've been locked up.

She wore her letter on her chest - as they all did, but hers said immediately that she couldn't make it (too much of a repeat offender).

But she had a story too, one that she never shared. Years ago, she left her hometown and her family and never looked back. It was, she said, because of the time her husband raped her and tried to drown her in the Mississippi River. She had thrown herself in front of her baby, trying to save him. But her husband was too strong and she was not strong enough.

When she told me, she shook. She never wanted anyone to know that she couldn't save her baby. She was so ashamed. (That as what she said --ashamed). That was what she carried with her, everyday.

No one is a deplorable when you sit with them and you give them space to tell their story. Not really.

[nolabear]

23. I'm a retired therapist and have worked with juveniles in prison.

I know exactly what you're talking about.

Years back I taught writing as a therapy in a the girls' mental health unit of a children's prison. The girls were under 18 but most were late teens, and had done some terrible things to others. And every one had had lives most of us can't imagine from very young ages.

They were hard to get to, and sometimes frightening. I wore panic alarm and many of the girls were very concerned that I was safe with the others, even when I knew that under duress they could be as disorganized and frightening. Poetry as most of us think of it seldom got to them but one day on a hunch I played Pete Townsend's Behind Blue Eyes for them, and there was so much weeping the staff got a bit worried. Because they felt exactly that way.

"But my dreams, they aren't as empty as my conscience seems to be."

[janterry]

24. We have similar backgrounds.

I've worked with teens too (teenaged girls are so hard - they'd call it 'messy').

I've never tried that song. I'll have to put that in my 'bag-of-tricks' (someday it will come in handy, I'm sure .

[nolabear]

29. Oh Lord, teenaged girls!

Fortunately I used to be one. I adored them but they were far from easy. Even in private practice no one can cut you dead like an angry teen girl. But when they realized that I wasn't there to make them be good and wasn't going to rat them out to anyone or rat out someone because of something they told me (with the usual and important exceptions) they could get so hungry for understanding it spoke volumes about what they had never gotten.

Actually boys and adults of all stripes too. Hate doesn't come from having been in a good place. Sometimes you have to regretfully say "I can't withstand or won't tolerate that behavior" but I can't imagine using it as an excuse to be the same way.

[NCDem777]

49. Extermination? No

Just not wasting our time on.

If I had to choose between helping someone who is trying to make their life better and someone who keeps doing dumb shit that gets his ass in jail, I'm choosing the first guy.

In that same way, I'm not helping anyone who looks at the guy who says "I'mma cut Medicare" and thinks that's fine.

I won't kill him myself, but I'm not gonna bail his ass out when he gets sick and the private sector says fuck off. Once a person knowingly flings himself into the lion's den, they stop being my problem.

[Eliot Rosewater]

27. And when they are done telling you about their lost loves or economic issues

they will blame most of it on immigrants and black people.

[janterry]

30. Not in my experience

-- I have worked with real racists (Aryan Brotherhood guys) and Neo-Nazi's.

Sure, they were angry at other people - but that was sort of an amorphous anger. They'd be angry for the 'state of the country' - I suppose and blame another racial group for that. But the mistakes that they had made in their own lives.....no, they saw themselves as responsible.

My background includes, substance abuse clinics, outpatient and inpatient facilities (inc. forensic), and prisons (kids and adults).

[Eliot Rosewater]

31. People who have had substance abuse issues, sought treatment or been in AA or NA

are far advanced from most trumpers and will have more evolved outlooks in many areas.

BUT most righty's blame most problems on POC and immigrants, plain and simple.

Even people who dont profess a strong rightwing ideology will blame immigrants for why they pay too much taxes, or those "lazy" people on food stamps, etc.

[Blue_true]

44. You have a point.

Some do blame their problems on people who had nothing to do with their problems. Part of that is simple human nature. I really think that the major divide in the country is economic, not racial or ethnic.

I see the economic divide here on DU, earlier I replied to a post where a DUer attacked a member for being well off.

[oberliner]

6. Could not disagree more strongly

We are all in this together. What makes our party so great is that we want to help everybody.

[Demsrule86]

10. +1000

[mythology]

19. I agree with this

The idea that we should let people suffer for disagreeing with us is scary both morally but also in terms of what would happen to our society.

But it's also what the people we claim to be opposed to would say, just about different people.

[HopeAgain]

8. I feel you. nt

[Demsrule86]

9. I will say the same to you that I say to Trumpers...their kids should be helped. They don't choose

their parents.

[treestar]

12. Tell them you will help them, but they must acknowledge

that their plight is not the fault of black people, or illegal immigrants, but their own responsibility. Don't they own their actions with personal responsibility? They must not have worked hard enough, been smart enough, or should have moved. That's the way they explain poverty of others.

[Tipperary]

13. This is not the first of these ugly ops you like to post so much.

Anyone who thinks this way must be a very sad person. It makes me sad to think how truly miserable you must be. If you have friends or family, please reach out to them. This is not healthy..

[TheMastersNemesis]

16. You Simply Do Not Get It.

These people are all about taking the basics away from minorities because they are a bunch of racists. These people are at war with anyone but them and are more than willing to deny health care for the sick and disabled.

I take my stand seriously. And I would be the last to deny anyone. But I will deny to those who are deliberately hurting others.

[mythology]

20. Fortunately nobody elected you arbiter of who deserves help

You can't actually seriously claim to "be the last to deny" while claiming you're happy to let people starve because they disagree with you.

[Tom Rinaldo]

15. Compassion at the survival level is like free speech

What really does make this country great is that even assholes have a right to food and an opinion.

[TheMastersNemesis]

17. Not If They Are Taking Away From Others Out Of Spite Or Racism.

[BlueDog22]

21. Compassion

My God man, we are all human beings. This is no way to act. We can't fight hatred and bigotry with more hatred and bigotry. I'm sorry you lost the values that the Democratic Party stands for.

[TheMastersNemesis]

28. You Would Be Useless In A War Zone.

I have no compassion for avowed racists and bullies. If I followed you logic as a soldier I would not have been willing to shoot back at the VC or NVA in Vietnam.

[TheyAreDeplorble]

35. First, I would challenge the notion that "we" are "all" human beings - especially if humanity is

defined by something more than mere physical presence.

The way conservatives have acted FOR EVER disqualifies them from full participation in the fruits of humanity.
They have all acted in a criminal fashion, even if the particular action was not identified as illegal at the time.
As such, there has to be some consequence for their actions.

Or are you an advocate of no punishment for any wrongdoing?

[treestar]

55. They don't have any

You should see posts they make about Dreamers, the poor, immigrants, the "libtards" - it may not be all of them, but when you run into them online, they are marked by a severe lack of compassion for anyone else.

[atreides1]

32. I agree with you to a point.

I wouldn't deny food or help to those among them who are weak, or to their children!

Now as for the rabid dogs, the people who brandish shotguns at a child's birthday party, and use racial slurs...the people who whine about how it's brown people taking their jobs or that blacks are lazy, and especially people who are members of the KKK and any other Alt-Right group, I WOULDN'T PISS ON THEM IF THEY WERE ON FIRE!!!

[TheMastersNemesis]

33. You Have The Point Of My OP.

I just had a conversation with a Congressional rep about someone who supports Trump and his agenda. She said that this person she was talking to even said that the "Sp*cs" were ruing this country right to her face.

[TheyAreDeplorble]

34. How would those offering to surrender to the right deal with a thug attacking their children? Would

they offer to talk to the thug?

Would they offer to hold their child for the assault?


Rightists are uneducable.
They are deliberately ignorant.
They actually take pride in the nasty and violent things they do and say, things that normal people would be ashamed of.
They really do take enjoyment from hurting others - e.g., taking away healthcare.

One hundred and fifty years after the Civil War, they are still defending racism.
They have been on the wrong side of history on EVERY issue that has arisen.

And some want us to make peace with those who would turn around and stab us in the back as they have been doing for ever.

No thank you.
My daughters' and grandsons' future is too important to trust those who cannot be trusted.

[TheMastersNemesis]

36. Your Post Reflects The Focus Of My OP. You Simply Must Respond In Kind When Attacked.

GOPPERS want everyone else who are not like them benefits taken or cut. They want their own at the expense of others. And they are deliberately attacking the vulnerable. They are a sadistic and hateful bunch. Even if you help them they will stab you in the back.

I just do not believe in letting them by unscathed. If they attack and intent to deny my my benefits compassion flies out the window for them. I see no amount of compassion or cooperation changing them.

[nolabear]

37. Seems to me you conflate kinds of attack and declare them all to deserve the same response.

Shooting at someone in Vietnam who is trying to kill you is far different from starving or pissing on someone whose political views might contribute to a society where innocent people are not treated well or in some cases are actively harmed.

I said upthread that I agree there are things that must not be allowed. But let's take you at your word and imagine that if a person you know to be a rabid right-winger's house is on fire and his children are standing out on the lawn crying "Save my daddy! Call 9-1-1! Bring a hose!" you'd stand there and do nothing because he voted in ways and spoke in ways you hated. The likelihood of those children learning a good lesson from that and realizing that you are indeed a human being and might be worth listening to is very slim. When the local news asks you why you didn't help and you say "He was in favor of deporting Dreamers and taking away my SS and I just thought he ought to die" you are very likely to validate the preconceptions of a whole lot of people who think your left point of view is as hypocritical as they always thought, even if they don't know you. You give them a great projective field for their rage at us all.

I was raised by people who, were they alive today, would likely be Trumpers. They had a hard time of it. Not enough education, lived in a part of the country that was looked down on and so became very tribal, really did believe things about people who were not like them that were absurd and treated them in ways that were dictated not by thought but by fear, ignorance and the need to remain as one with the insular culture in which they were raised. And I loved them for the many things they did for me and the fact that they kept me safe and alive even though from day one I didn't see eye to eye with them. And I hated them for dismissing and sneering at my views and for hurting others in ways they could be utterly cavalier about. But neither of us would have imagined letting the other suffer or starve. I guess to do that would have been to give up hope. They thought of it in terms of religious redemption for me. I thought of it in terms of what they did contribute to others who later might be different, who might do good in the world and see others as equally valuable and deserving of respect. And that has in part come to pass. In part not. The younger generation is interesting in their conservatism and surprise at what their elders did, though they have a long, long way to go in some cases.

I understand the rage. I do. And I understand defending one's self against attack with all you've got. But that eye-for-an-eye philosophy I don't. And I think 45 uses it to his advantage. He has one real genius. He pits people against one another for his own advantage. He speaks about "Americans" with a wink that says "us, not those people who would starve you or piss on you." I can't see fueling that.

[TheMastersNemesis]

45. I Believe In Reciprocity In Their Case. Deny Me & My Family, I Will Deny Yours.

It is that simple. If that tactic is the only way I can reach you, then I might just do it. Call it cruel if you will, but so be it if they insist on stopping health care for those people who need it and do not have the means.

I lost a friend who had treatable lymphoma because he did not have health insurance. He was told too bad. So with these racist and bigoted people I really do not care if they survive if they insist on being so to the detriment of others.

We will have to be in disagreement on this matter.

[nolabear]

48. Im sorry you feel that way.

But I won’t presume to know your heart. Peace.

[TheMastersNemesis]

50. I Don't. I Believe You Are Naive. You Are Dealing With Pure Evil And Do Not Recognize It.

Your stance enables their evil hearts.

[nolabear]

51. I am a retired shrink. I dealt in everything for many years.

I reported people who looked great in public. I went to court for people who looked evil to some. I am far from naive. I advocate justice and I get the desire for revenge. But every day I try to understand. It makes life better for me.

[onenote]

43. In the history of silly DU OPs, this must rank in the top 10.

How, pray tell, would this notion of denying aid to economically distressed "Trumpers" work?

Would it be based on geography? If you live in a state where a majority (or plurality) voted for Trump, no one gets assistance even though in most of those states between 30 and 45 percent (give or take) of the voters didn't vote for Trump? (And I'm not even considering the folks who didn't vote at all but who clearly would never vote for a Democrat if it was Democrats who cut off their assistance).

Maybe since state-wide denial of assistance would hurt many "non-Trumpers", maybe it would be applied on a county or town level. Of course, it's the same problem -- there probably is no place in the country where every single person is a Trumper. Trumpers live next door to non-Trumpers.

So if geography won't work, maybe we just make people fill out a form swearing that they didn't vote for Trump as a prerequisite to their getting financial assistance? Right.

Again, top ten silly idea.

[NCDem777]

53. It's actually pretty easy to do on an individual level

Trump supportin' Granny need a GoFundMe to fund a surgery? You're out of money.
That college friend of yours who voted Trump because the feminists hurt his feelings need some help in a crisis? You're out of town but thoughts and prayers.

[ileus]

59. I don't know there's one floating around here about Alexa being female.

[onenote]

60. True. I thought about posting in that thread, but hoped it would just disappear

My guess is that if Alexa was Alex there would eventually would have been an OP asking why a male voice rather than a female.

[sfwriter]

54. Well, I for one support rebuilding urban infrastructure first.

They can move to the back of the line after saddling us with decades of spend & borrow republicanism that stifled infrastructure spending in favor of tax cuts.

[Gothmog]

56. Trump supporters are racist ignorant deplorables

I feel no compulsion to help these idiots