Joan Walsh on CNN: Oprah has to answer for her support of "The Secret" (anti-science)

[ecstatic]

And Joan said Oprah also has to answer for her support of Dr Oz, Dr Phil, etc.

Wow! Really? I've heard the petty attacks related to Oprah (an entertainer) promoting other entertainers on her entertainment network, but I'm surprised that Oprah's interest in "The Secret" is now being questioned.

With regard to "The Secret," unless you've sincerely tried and failed at employing the principles of the law of attraction, you probably shouldn't comment on it. I'm a huge procrastinator so I haven't gone "all in," but the little I've done has been quite effective.

[leftstreet]

1. Just googled it. Sounds a bit like woo

It is based on the pseudo-scientific 'law of attraction' which claims that thoughts can change the world directly.

riiiiight....

single payer healthcare can change the world
collective bargaining can change the world
public ownership of things like utilities can change the world

just 'thinking' about it, not so much

[ecstatic]

9. It's moreso referring to changing your personal life. For example,

a woman who might be longing to have a son could buy a painting showing a woman with a baby boy. Or some people find that writing down specific goals is more effective than not writing down those goals.

[hatrack]

10. Uh . . . . . .

[ecstatic]

14. What is confusing?

[hatrack]

16. Well . . .

"A woman who might be longing to have a son could buy a painting showing a woman with a baby boy."

Which, I presume, would produce the desired outcome?

[ecstatic]

18. I've seen first hand how powerful the images we put

up in our homes can be. Personally, I think it's the quickest and easiest way to use the law of attraction, but I guess your mileage may vary.

[hatrack]

22. OK, whatever

.

[NickB79]

25. The sex of a baby is determined by a man's sperm

What possible scientific explanation could anyone offer up to link a woman staring at a painting of a baby boy with which sperm fertilizes her egg?

Maybe I should hang up a painting of a stack of cash so I'll win the lottery next week.

[ecstatic]

29. OK, forget the gender. Just think baby. Although

there are ways of making one gender more likely (at which point it's no longer about the law of attraction)...

[Orange Free State]

56. Ever notice that Republicans take pix of themselves

With piles of cash? Mitt Romney knows The Secret!

[Tanuki]

57. So that's why Mnuchin and his wife posed:

[ProfessorGAC]

58. I Was Always Surprised By That Picture

That those two would have a picture taken with a sheet of one's. I would have thought they wouldn't stoop to anything lower than Franklin's.

[Orange Free State]

54. OK I am convinced!

Fortunately I can draw.

I will immediately make an image of a fat orange rolling off a cliff.

Who knows, maybe it will come true. Maybe it already is happening just by me thinking about it!

Excuse me, I am having multiple sarcasms today.

[Orrex]

65. There is no law of attraction. That is bullshit.

We're not talking about gravity or magnetism, but rather the "magical" "law of attraction" to which you're referring.

It's garbage, with no verifiable basis in anything but wishful thinking.

If Oprah endorses that bullshit, she absolutely shouldn't be anywhere near the White House.

[lagomorph777]

69. Eventually.

Keeping the baby image in your face every day could result in a series of babies being conceived (i.e. you're in the mood to conceive all the time). Statistically, eventually one of them will probably be a boy.

[hatrack]

84. (Insert Snorting Noise Here)

[tonedevil]

24. Rhonda Byrne...

says that the victims of the Holocaust would have been fine if only they had used the principals she lays down in The Secret.

[tinrobot]

49. It all starts with a thought.

single payer healthcare can change the world
collective bargaining can change the world
public ownership of things like utilities can change the world

just 'thinking' about it, not so much

Someone had to come up with the ideas for single payer health care, collective bargaining, etc. Those ideas all started out as thoughts.

In fact, someone must spend a lot of time "thinking about" these complex ideas in order to turn them into policies.

Thoughts are powerful things, and they can have a powerful effect on people's lives. Might as well make those thoughts as positive as possible.

[snooper2]

71. doesn't sound like woo- It is full fucking blown woo LOL

[NCTraveler]

2. She doesnt have to answer for shit. Nt

[Upthevibe]

15. THANK YOU, NCTraveler...

I'll repeat what you just said: She doesn't have to answer for shit! "The Secret" is about having a positive mindset and self-improvement. if someone has a problem with that, they can go F themselves...

[misanthrope]

46. It's one step removed from Reagan-style victim blaming

"Everything bad that happens to you is your own fault. The unfortunate are in their position due to their own shortcomings."

[uponit7771]

32. +1

[BannonsLiver]

45. If she wants to run for President she will.

See, that’s how it works. The good news is it’s also why she won’t be running for President.

[NCTraveler]

50. In other words, she doesnt have to answer for shit.

[Orrex]

66. She's obviously under no obligation to answer

Just as obviously--since her inner circle has been vaguely non-dismissive of her possible presidential aspirations--it is entirely appropriate to ask these questions.

[NCTraveler]

67. I don't find it to be appropriate in any way at all.

"her inner circle has been vaguely non-dismissive of her possible presidential aspirations"

One of the best sentences ever.



I demand you answer these questions considering the vaguely non-dismissive replies of your inner circle.

I do appreciate that. It helps to understand your mindset.

"vaguely non-dismissive"



My appologies if your reply was straight up sarcasm.

[Orrex]

72. Excuse me, but who is demanding anything? Please provide links

We are asking entirely reasonable questions, and we are certainly not expecting her to answer, much less "demanding."

Are you as quick to jump on people who speak positively of her hypothetical presidency? Those comments are as baseless and unjustified as questions about her support of Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz, Jenny McCarthy, and The Secret.


For that matter, it's appropriate to question her endorsement of that bullshit even if she never runs for office.

[NCTraveler]

74. Stay focused.

It's working. lol

I'm convinced you aren't being serious.

[Orrex]

75. And I'm convinced that your judgment in this matter is questiontable

[BannonsLiver]

77. precisely. n/t

[hatrack]

3. It's a steaming pile of Woo . . . .

Not sure if that makes Oprah a believer, but it certainly makes her an enabler - and after all, it's $$$$$ that matters in the end in this society.

Last freaking thing this country needs is more magical thinking.

[bettyellen]

6. Google Oprah + taxes, LOL. Its not going to happen. No more empires

Being run from the White House. No normalizing woo woo bullshit.

[bettyellen]

4. The Secret is the worst kind of woo woo- just more bootstrap nonsense from idiots born on third base

Dr Oz andDr Phil are just as bad. Plus she hates paying her taxes. And she too would probably have a zillion conflicts.

Just no to devaluing expertise and reality. No woo.

[Upthevibe]

17. If having a positive mindset and doing all you can do to be the best person

you can be, is "woo woo" then call me the biggest, badssest woo-woo around! I'll proudly wear that badge....

[bettyellen]

27. If youre motivation for being the best person is personal gain.... and thats the sell there...

Well you’re not the best, are you? I’m sorry that kind of crap is used to blame people for their random misfortunes all the damn time- bootstraps- they’re always recommended by the extremely well connected for some reason, LOL. What a scam!

[Cha]

39. Exactly.. eating healthy and regular workouts

are important, too. We get out what we put into it.. Body Mind and Spirit.

I don't know about The Secret but I like your attitude, Upthevibe.

[bettyellen]

40. The secret blames illness and random tragedy on the people who suffer them....

And claims that just a positive attitude is the cure. It goes beyond the fake it to make it, be cheerful stuff into bizarre woo that she claims is based on actual physics.

[Cha]

44. That wouldn't be me.

[bettyellen]

47. Im all for keeping things positive- but this never complain bullshit is more irrelevant than ever

these days- you get that too, I know.

[Cha]

48. I do..

bettyellen

[bettyellen]

81. And the flip side of it, is the implication that people asked the universe

For their misfortune- and that the fortunate have been “blessed by god”- same as the prosperity gospel crap. It’s a way for people to rationalize their lack of empathy and generosity toward others. People LOVE simple answers. I get that some people need to hear that they’re more fortunate than they realize and need to accentuate the positive- but when they start claiming that’s the solution to literally all that ails you- it’s dangerous and junk science to boot. Cannot abide that.

Hope you’re well, my dear! Always good to see you here.

[Beaverhausen]

35. Do you think Oprah was born on third base?

[bettyellen]

37. Oprah didnt write the book. An Aussie who doesnt live by her own advice does-

But I guess that’s good because if she gets sick she’ll see a doctor instead of attributing the disease and it’s cure to bad or good vibes, LOL. What a total scam.

[Beaverhausen]

5. It's called the Power of Postitive Thinking. A belief that has been around for ages

But by all means, get your panties in a twist over it.

[Upthevibe]

20. Thank you for your comment, Beaverhausen...n/t

[tonedevil]

23. Would you say...

the victims of the Holocaust would have been OK if only they used positive thinking? Rhonda Byrne says that's the case in her book The Secret.

[Beaverhausen]

34. Of course I dont.

But having a positive attitude can help us through a lot

You can believe it or not. Makes no difference to me.

[BannonsLiver]

43. Yes, if only they had dreamed a little harder

Honestly some of the woo nuttery embraced here is fascinating.

[SwissTony]

80. There's positive thinking and then there's The Secret

You can decide to...

get fit
lose weight
enroll in a university course
stop smoking
cut back on alcohol

or a million other possibilities. All positive thoughts.

But strongly believing and hoping you will win the lottery won't increase your chances.

[Scurrilous]

7. I heard she tears those tags off mattresses. n/t

[Cha]

38. Oh noes!

[Spider Jerusalem]

8. I'm sorry, but...

you don't need to try and fail to control the universe with your thoughts to be able to understand that it's nonsense.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Law_of_attraction

[marlakay]

11. The secret is no different than religion

Or belief of any sort, just Christian belief is more acceptable.

But if she ran they would use that against her plus a ton of other stuff like everyone else that runs.

If the media wants to trash her they will.

[BoneyardDem]

12. Show biz vs. reality and politics

seriously haven't we learned yet that they are not in the same bed together.

Al Franken's Show biz, vs. his Senatorial tenure......they were and are NOT the same

Bashing Oprah seems suspect to me at this point.

[Kingofalldems]

13. And guess what--the republicans will bring it up in any campaign.

Hard pass on Oprah.

[left-of-center2012]

19. How dare anyone doubt Oprah !

[hlthe2b]

21. Why do I hear Palin re: Obama "pallin around with terrorists (Ayers)

and being demonized for his own pastor's comments (Jeremiah Wright) with all this "guilty by association" going on? Pretty soon, no one who has had any kind of career unrelated to politics (cough, cough, Franken) will be able to pass muster to run for higher office, much less the Presidency.

Really, folks? There are lots of reasons to oppose Oprah or any other candidate, but do we REALLY believe she is Anti-Science? I don't. She presented a lot of crap, granted, but in the name of a talk show discussion and entertainment. But, I surely have never heard or seen a suggestion that she is a climate change denier (Gore was featured on her show on at least 2 occasions), or opposes clean air, water, food regulations, or supports destruction of our forests and National Parks in the name of profit, or is, herself anti-vaccine (I KNOW she vaccinates her dogs).

Can ANYONE pass muster in this current climate? Again, i'm not promoting an Oprah run, just saying we need to consider how we evaluate our potential candidates--all of our candidates.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/04/palin.obama/

[Freethinker65]

26. The Secret. Hahahahaha. Worst book I ever read

And yes I read it. All of it for a book club. Some of it out loud while laughing at how stupid it was.

For the first time ever, everyone in the book club agreed it was just awful. I did not even know it was an Oprah suggested book. The book club member that suggested it for us apologized for it (and she later died around the age of 50, the result of a horrible invasive uterine cancer...guess she did not know “the secret”?).

To this day when we get a good parking spot, my husband or I will exclaim “we know the secret!” and chuckle.

[FarPoint]

28. Not really...

May be after tRump releases his taxes...

[eShirl]

30. wasn't that book part of the whole "prosperity" movement?

That was the impression I had at the time but I never read it.

[octoberlib]

36. Yes, it was.

[Bradshaw3]

31. The secret to the secret is that it's a con

It's based on bullshit, just like many "self-help" programs, Scientology, and Trump University. Just because some are gullible enough to fall for it like they did for trump's bullshit university and the anti-vaxxer stuff (another Oprah promotion) doesn't make it ok. Do we really need another person in the WH who promotes cons and charlatans?

And Oprah doesn't just promote Phil and Oz. They work for her.

[tanyev]

33. Did I miss the announcement where Oprah said she's running?

[Cha]

41. We all missed it.

[melman]

51. Do you think Gayle and Stedman would say the things they've said without her approval?

Come on.

[tanyev]

60. There will be plenty of time for us all to fight about it after she forms an exploratory committee.

[HopeAgain]

52. If Oprah runs and gets the nomination,

this party is dumber than anyone could have imagined. I want an experienced leader and a message, not a celebrity.

[whathehell]

53. The Empirical Absolutists will agree with her..

although I don't.

[DeminPennswoods]

55. It's just another "self-help" book

IIRC, Oprah had a pretty awful childhood. Everything she's accomplished, believes, does comes from that background, imho. If you've watched her over the years, she's consistently attracted to emotion-based ideas and sob stories. No one should be surprised she related to "The Secret". Trump is mercurial and then some. Oprah would be overly influenced by her emotions. I doubt she'd be able to make a hard choice that might help a lot of people if it hurt some in the process. She should stick to what's made her rich.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

59. No more so than any politician should have to answer

For trying to ram Christianity down everyone's throats! Oprah wasn't in office and any bullshit she promoted was on her own time. It doesn't endear her to me but it's completely different from prayer in schools or Merry Christmas political crap.

[raccoon]

61. The Secret to the secret is called confirmation bias.

The Secret to the secret is called "confirmation bias."

It's absolute horseshit.

[HipChick]

62. Trump is a genius of law of attraction..

Act as if until...

[Iwasthere]

79. Exactly!

[alarimer]

63. "The Secret" is woo-woo bullshit.

From a scientific point of view it is complete bullshit. From the self-help side, it elevates self-centeredness to an art form. Here is one self-help blogger's take on it. It is, basically, confirmation bias in book form. You see only what you want or expect to see and ignore the rest that doesn't fit.

https://markmanson.net/the-secret

The Secret is actually just a candied up version of an old psychological concept called the ‘confirmation bias.’ The confirmation bias is well-studied; researchers have known about it for decades.3 It also makes a hell of a lot more sense than the “Thoughts as Vibrations” theory.

As human beings, we have a limited amount of attention for all the stuff going on around us. Therefore, whether we realize it or not (usually not), we are always choosing what we pay attention to. The confirmation bias is the human mind’s tendency to notice and pay more attention to objects and experiences that match its preexisting thoughts and beliefs. It does this for the simple reason that it is biologically economical and efficient.4

We’ve all experienced confirmation bias a million times, you’ve probably just never realized it before. For example, you spend years not really paying attention to what kind of car people drive. But then the time comes for you to start thinking about buying a car and suddenly you notice the make and model of cars all over the place. You start making decisions about which styles you like and what features you care about. You start noticing these details because for the first time they are salient and relevant to your thoughts and desires, whereas before they weren’t.

Or let’s say that a close friend breaks your trust and you have a huge fight. Suddenly you find yourself thinking back and noticing all sorts of shady and questionable behavior from your friend that you never noticed or thought about before. Things you can’t believe you overlooked or missed. But before, because you trusted your friend, you didn’t notice them. Now that you don’t trust them, you notice a long trail of red flags.

[Mrs. Overall]

64. HILLARY CLINTON'S SPIRITUAL ADVISER WAS JEAN HOUSTON--that didn't seem to matter, so why make Oprah

answer for her spiritual beliefs?

[octoberlib]

68. Did Hillary heavily promote anti-vaxxers and a nutjob pastor

who claims he can cure cancer with psychic energy? Oprah's anti-science and that's dangerous.

[Still Blue in PDX]

70. Magickal thinking at its best or worst. There is nothing secret about "The Secret." nt

[Codeine]

73. Im sorry, but thats just fucking stupid. nt

[dawg day]

76. For g's sake

How about we Dems don't knee-cap each other from the get-go.

There is a man sitting in the White House who conspired with Putin to sell out our country-- AND, it looks like, our military. Not years ago, not just on a TV program-- but last year. And from the White House.

Anyone-- anyone-- who can beat him would be better.

[judesedit]

78. Reality is proceeded by dreams or thoughts of positivity or negativity. Are you aware of

Quantum physics? Just looking at an inatimate object will cause its atoms to activate. Thoughts are things you can use to improve your attitude and life. The opposite is also true. Women have false pregnancies that go full term. Plenty of psychosomatic illness around so they had to create pretend pharmaceuticals. Get with the program preople. Thoughts have the power to heal or hurt you.

[bettyellen]

82. Poverty, abuse, cancer, mental illness- all because people asked the universe for them, right?

Oy vey. You CAN make this shit up. LOL.

[judesedit]

85. You actually can. You don't have to ask for it.

You just keep thinking about the negative aspects and wallow in it. Of course we all have obstacles to overcome. But how many times have doctors told patients they're going to die or will never walk again to have the patient defy them and go win a marathon. You don't think that takes major positive thought projection? And determination. I guess some people just like to be controlled by outside influences without doing anything to change them. I choose not to when I can control my thoughts and enjoy my life. It starts with your thinking. Try it.

[kcr]

86. Yeah. It's their own fault if they die of cancer.

They just didn't want it bad enough!

Thank you for showing why that kind of thinking is poisonous. You've presented a perfect example.

[bettyellen]

87. So cancer happens because people are sunny enough- I guess they dont deserve to live if they cant

Keep it sweet, LOL. The only people I have met who believe this crap used to be chronic depressive complainers and it was great for THEM. They think everyone is like them. No thanks to lurching from one extreme to another, I prefer a variety of genuine emotions, thanks.

[hunter]

83. That book did a lot of damage to some vulnerable people.

"The Secret" is no cure for mental illness. It's not even good advice for healthy people.

People blamed themselves when it didn't work, and maybe worse, others blamed victims of mental illness for not somehow making it work.

Off-my-meds there's no amount of positive New Thought energy that is going to make me functional. The hallucinations won't go away, and the overwhelming desire to feel anything, anything at all just to ground myself, even potentially harmful to myself, does not go away.

I've no patience with woo. In my experience meds work, and very practical approaches to dealing with life work, even in times things get really strange for me. I take my meds, I cope with realities gone sideways, and I accept that's who I am. When I'm at my best I'm on the docks mending my social safety nets. I've no longer any expectations of cures, or even meds without unpleasant side effects. I hate my meds. I've quit them at times cold-turkey. That never ends well. Today I take them.

I landed in a locked psych ward in 2016 when the effectiveness of one of my meds faded. Shit happens. It was my good fortune to get nothing but practical advice and new variations of prescription meds that are helpful. It's wonderful to be living in the 21st century. Some of my ancestors suffered far worse than I ever have without helpful meds. Some did not survive much longer than to reproduce. Is that positive thinking, or what?

In the psych ward I met a lot of people who were beating themselves over the head (sometimes literally) because they hadn't been able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps with positive thinking, "The Secret" or other religion, seven-day-a-week-12-step-higher-power sobriety, or anything else.

I'm a spiritual person, but I'm also trained as a scientist. I'm skeptical, maybe even hostile, toward anyone who thinks they can influence outcomes by thoughts or prayers.

Sometimes you have just got to take the pills and reflect upon the times Mother Nature smacked you in the head with a 2 X 4 or stuffed your face into the sand and nearly broke your neck and drowned you because you are stupid, hard headed obstinate, Mother Nature utterly indifferent to an otherwise trivial imbalance in your brain chemistry.

[Paladin]

88. Oprah's long-time support of anti-vaccination spokesmen disqualifies her. (nt)